Avakyt Dadiji - Dadi Prakashmani's Death

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howiemac
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Post by howiemac » 26 Aug 2007

I had a soft spot for Kumarka - I met her a couple of times, but it was just the toli and drishti thing, and a few words to the group. One to one she seemed like a tired out old lady with no sign of spirituality ... but when she was on the stage talking to the masses she transformed completely. I was at her classes maybe a dozen times or more, between 2001 and 2004, and found her very impressive indeed, very evangelical - every time she would start out stern and authoritarian, progress to an inspirational rousing of the troops, and then melt into a beautiful love-filled, child-like, angelic form. It was this loving form that inspired me - she would flood a huge hall of people with warmth and positivity, and keep it coming. I have never encountered anything like it. She was my favourite of the Dadis to listen to.

I am glad for her sake that she has escaped her worn out body.

Now I am sure there are massed hordes of BKs weeping for their guru ... I feel sorry for them also, as they are so misguided, and so out of touch with the most basic teachings of their own faith. The BKs should celebrate their own leaving their bodies - they should be partying, and not mourning.
alladin wrote:BKWSU does many things exactly in the same way and with the same motives as Bhakti groups they despise do, but denies doing so
Yes - by their actions, they give themselves away.

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Rakhi time

Post by alladin » 26 Aug 2007

Wah, a good chance to meet politicians and swamis!!! We dropped out. BKs are missing the opportunity to make acquaintance with some new appealing guru! And what about naked sadhus? I wonder if any of those are also paying homage!

There is one thing I would like any wise person to explain to me, if possible, because I might have misunderstood the meaning of Rakhi for all these years! I always thought that Rakshabandan was the occasion for BKs to renew their vow of purity, like a big commitment, a serious time, not so much like a festival (party).

Since Dadi Kumarka was always stressing the importance of Purity in her classes, wouldn't it have been an appropriate way to pay respect to her, not cancelling Rakhi programs for all this mourning pomp and show? Or are we seeing how diplomacy, façade, PR, politics & co outrun everything else; including the Festival of Purity which is supposed to be the main virtue and foundation of everything else in BK life??

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Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Aug 2007

bansy wrote:Thousands of devotees from across the globe descend at Abu ... and succeeded in her efforts ... 20,000 devotees ... IPs, VIPs and VVIPs from India and abroad are expected to congregate to pay their obeisance.
It must have been a man that wrote that. It always pees me off when they write "mankind" instead of humankind.

But there you have it folks ... you are now the obeisant devotees of these people. Every one gets a holiday and is officially allowed to show some emotion, the leadership get to impress on their followers and the general public their importance.

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Post by bansy » 26 Aug 2007

It must have been a man that wrote that
The Press Release is from B.K. Karuna.

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Post by joel » 26 Aug 2007

joel wrote:Why begrudge them the way they choose to honor their dead?
ex-l wrote:I am not sure if that is a rhetorical question or not ... should we pretend? She was responsible for the organization that was apparently given the God and truth and turned it into string of falsehoods. And in those fateful words, its not according to the Murli we all died (alive) for. Because it will all be done (train, air fares, ceremonies, hospitalities) off the back of donations that could have gone somewhere practical. May be I am short sighted ... someone correct me. Is it soul conscious?
The BKWSU has always followed more or less conventional Hindu mourning practices. Ceremonies take meaning by providing time, space and context for personal, emotional experience, for bonding of the group, for mutual support.

Such ceremonies fill human needs. Believing in a soul-body dichotomy doesn't necessarily negate their social function.

It is generally Western BKs who react to BKWSU ritual and ceremony by questioning if these rituals are "soul conscious." I think that the Indian "wing" of the BKWSU sees the philosophy as something rhetorical that adds to the BK family culture, while the Western BKs see the philosophy as a kind of knife for dividing, categorizing and analyzing: it provides them a standard of judgment. New, intoxicated and world-weary Western BKs tend to reject nearly every cultural activity as body-conscious, whereas Indians are more accepting of what, after all, is their own culture.

It is amazing to me that an ex-BK would argue about whether BKs are really practicing "soul consciousness." Are you assuming "soul consciousness" to be an absolute, or could it be something that exists in a cultural context, as other religious beliefs?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Aug 2007

joel wrote:Are you assuming "soul consciousness" to be an absolute, or could it be something that exists in a cultural context, as other religious beliefs?
Good question for another topic somewhere else. The truth is I think I lack the sociological and psychological language to properly describe my instinctual response to having been hoodwink.

To me, whilst having judgement caste down upon us by those in power, "The Knowledge" led us to believe that all satisfaction came from within and if we need external rituals and forms then something was lacking in our Yoga or soul-consciousness (blame placed back on individual for organization's contradictions).

I have visited one tribe whose burial rites consisted of taking the corpse and throwing it in a ditch at the edge of the jungle where it was then recycled back into that which sustained it. I rather like that idea. I suspect I am also reacting against the display of visible wealth and worldly power which I general assume to be part and parcel with corruption, knowing what the teachings say about non-BKs.

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Post by joel » 26 Aug 2007

ex-l wrote:The truth is I think I lack the sociological and psychological language to properly describe my instinctual response to having been hoodwink[ed].
Even used car salesmen and lawyers (two categories of 'hoodwinkers') mourn their dead. At the same time, I understand your reaction to being deceived by the BKWSU: seeing their every public action as based on ulterior motives.

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Post by arjun » 26 Aug 2007

ex-l wrote:"The Knowledge" led us to believe that all satisfaction came from within and if we need external rituals and forms then something was lacking in our Yoga or soul-consciousness (blame placed back on individual for organization's contradictions).
I agree.
I have visited one tribe whose burial rites consisted of taking the corpse and throwing it in a ditch at the edge of the jungle where it was then recycled back into that which sustained it. I rather like that idea. I suspect I am also reacting against the display of visible wealth and worldly power which I general assume to be part and parcel with corruption, knowing what the teachings say about non-BKs.
The Parsis also have a unique way of disposing the dead bodies by placing them on the parapet walls of the designated wells for the vultures to devour the dead bodies.

By the way, I saw Dadi Prakashmani's body encapsuled in a glass case surrounded by BKs (mostly teachers) on a Hindi news channel. It reported that already about 50,000 people have converged at Mt. Abu to attend the funeral.

I had gone to the Airport to receive some of my relatives and found 5 BK Teachers coming out along with a brother who was carrying the trolley containing their luggage and another brother who was busy booking the Taxis. Probably they had come from another city enroute to Mount Abu.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Aug 2007

I think I have to be more explicit. What do we make a religion that says in one breath, "Do not remember anyone" and then engages in all this for one of their own?

The soul has left the body, is not it? What is the need to drag another 50,000 corpse all the way to Abu ... I suppose there will be another "Day" in the BK calendar so we can remember her time and time again and then she too will be eulogised and enter the mythology.

I wonder how often the donation boxes will have to be emptied?

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appearances

Post by alladin » 26 Aug 2007

Some personalities and rites, are just "taboo", untouchable.

Yes, it feels a bit akward and not pleasant at all. After having been shamed by SS for many years for wearing coloured clothes, having a tan, jogging or a loose mane instead of a plait on the claim that it was condemnable body-consciousness; to see any circus, pomp and show ...

Having undergone constant brainwashing about the meaninglessness of any relationship with bodies, including those of the parents who generated us ... it feels as if either we misunderstood the teachings, we've been betrayed; or we are in front of double standards.

It is possible that many of us did not know how to play the game, and were given a hard time because we did not catch the importance of "appearances".

But who cares, after all, past is past!

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Re: appearances

Post by mr green » 26 Aug 2007

alladin wrote:But who cares, after all, past is past!
I am with you who cares, maybe we did not understand or maybe we understood it better!!!

Maybe they are the herd and we are the shepherds.

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Post by lalita » 26 Aug 2007

In a lecture by Alan Watts he describes death as a potentially ecstatic experience. He spoke about missing the best experience in your life by not having a proper positive death experience. A nurse friend told me most people die in the early hours alone because they are ashamed of showing the sight of their death to others. Alan Watts covered this and likened the ecstatic death experience to that of participating in a sex orgy. People are ashamed at their death like the shame of exposing your sexuality to others, so they hide away and die alone and ashamed (even in hospital).

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Post by di » 27 Aug 2007

Hello Lalita,

An interesting slant on death and the dying process. I cannot say after 28 years of nursing and caring for those who are dying and have passed on that I have seen this ecstatic exiting of this life. I have found that many prefer to have someone with them, to hold their hand and to care to help the passing over. Many others prefer to go alone. To them it is with dignity and a private matter. A personal thing they prefer to do alone without others there. Some will even wait until family or staff have left the room for a few minutes after hours upon hours of attendance and then go.

I have not witnessed any shame with anyone dying, whether it is alone or with someone with them. I can sense when someone is about to go in the next few days, sense the other presences around, standing back and waiting to guide those who are leaving, even catch glimpses occasionally. This can be if we are expecting the death or are unaware of someone going quickly without warning.

My understanding is of people dying in the early hours is because that is when the body's processes actually slow down the most, usually between the hours of 3 am and 4 am. It is the quietest time of the 24 hour period where the physical aspect of a person is at their maximum rest state. My personal experience is they will go at any time, when it suits them, and I am working in aged care at the moment. A field known respectfully and fondly as 'God's Waiting Room' by those who work in it.

I have been with many, many people who have died and not once seen anything sexual, ecstatic or shameful with any of them. Just a final peace and letting go with as much dignity as I can assist them in having. I would be interested to find out on what grounds and who Alan Watts has interviewed after dying to come to the conclusion of a potentially ecstatic sexual orgy type experience. To me, that statement is the only shameful thing about it.

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Post by arjun » 27 Aug 2007

Om Shanti.

A few moments ago, at around 10.23 A.M. (IST) Dadi Prakashmaniji's mortal body was consigned to flames. All senior Dadis and senior BKs had placed sandalwood pieces and sandalwood garlands on the funeral pyre before it was lit. Dadi Janaki, Dadi Gulzar, BK Mohini, BK Nirwair, BK Ramesh Shah, BK Brijmohan, BK Karuna spoke a few words before the funeral. Except BK Mohini, all others maintained their calm. BK Mohini could not stop her tears and spoke in a choked voice. BK Brijmohan requested BapDada to bring Dadiji also along with him during the next season of Avyakt BapDada. Brahma Baba's son Narayan Dada was also continously standing near the funeral pyre.

For most part of the live telecast, the commentary was being given by a non-BK commentator, who along with a few other sisters were bemoaning the death of Dadiji. They were continuously reminding how everybody's heart was heavy with emotions and eyes full of tears.

One thing that probably differed from the funeral of other BKs was that a Shaivite tilak (three white horizontal lines with a red bindi above it) was applied on Dadiji's forehead. Another thing that was conspicuously visible was the absence of any double foreigners within the main enclosure of the funeral ceremony. But all double foreigner BKs were represented by their zonal incharges (including Sister Vedanti).

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Aug 2007

The "Dadi Maa" website - for Prakashmani's last rites. Is that a new status?

What do we make of the Shavite Tilak and the conspicuously absence of any double foreigners within the main enclosure? Not pure enough ... Dadi or BKWSU not want them in? Not even Denise who is out there now?
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