BKWSO commence legal action against BrahmaKumaris.Info

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uddhava
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Re: Result

Post by uddhava » 20 Nov 2007

NAF wrote:The Panel finds that the disputed domain name [BrahmaKumaris.Info] is not being used primarily to disrupt Complainant's charitable work.
Charitable work? Anyway, considering that they are guided by God Almighty himself, it is surprising that the BKs would embark on such an ill-advised venture.

suss gi

BKWSU and money

Post by suss gi » 20 Nov 2007

It is important I feel not to allow a black and white attitude to emerge.

Generally speaking, BKWSU is not obliged to deal with poverty in the world. It could be said that they deal with karmic accounts where, it is the government, or those who pull government strings, who deal with financial accounts, at least, when they are not giving out freely, our personal identities/details.

BKWSU is a collective of individuals (?) who all have differing viewpoints politically. In other words, let's not criminalise people for being "BKs" or other.

As for me writing a book on this forum, I think I already have done. Come on, I won't release the book until I am being invited on to TV chat shows etc.

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Re: Result

Post by bkti-pit » 20 Nov 2007

admin wrote:The arbitrators of National Arbitration Forum have returned their decision and the BKWSO has been been unanimously denied the transfer of this domain name to their ownership.
Wah! This is good news! Congratulations!

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Generally speaking, BKWSU not obliged to deal with poverty

Post by abrahma kumar » 20 Nov 2007

I agree that a financial non-interventionist stance is the position that BKs take in these matters. Take a look at http://www.bkun.org/habitat/soh5.html you will see that amongst other things the BKWSU comments that:
The crisis that we are facing has many aspects; countless numbers of our brothers and sisters are without proper food, water and housing and their basic rights are ignored. But all these problems have one root: poverty ...
But just in case we think they refer to financial poverty, the speech asserts that the crisis is rooted in
poverty of social and human values resulting from moral and spiritual decline. Each one of us must therefore look within and check: to what extent is my consciousness and personality still affected by hatred, greed, anger. pride and selfish desires and dependencies. Our actions are an expression of our personality which is formed out of the values we choose to live by. The values that we live by depend on how we define and understand ourselves. So we must see to what extent our personal values are in conflict with the values in our vision of the better world we seek.
So we are God's chosen keeping the BKWSU MotherShip afloat with our wealth of all sorts while we tell our brothers and sisters that they ought to go to their governments for financial handouts. Why? Oh, we do not want to incur further karmic accounts.

Many of us can remember the alacrity with which we were 'invited' by Seniors to donate MONEY after the Tsunami! Not, dear brothers and Sisters, God's coffers are full to overflowing with cash as a consequence of your donations, so what do you think about the idea of the BKWSU making a financial contribution to a reputable disaster relief fund? Oh no, not them. It was more like dear brothers and sisters you will see that we have put some envelopes alongside Baba's boxes please ...

No, I am not bitter. Just very much awake and obviously afflicted by a "poverty of social and human values". I agree that: Generally speaking, BKWSU not obliged to deal with poverty.

I was recently asked by a friend who had attended a BK public lecture: Abe, why is there a tendency for one of your members to 'rush' to inform the audience about the various items that are available on sale, just as we are "surfacing from the meditation" that you have at the end of the 'talks' you host?

Abe, he said, I hope that you don't take offence but it strikes me as a bit of a crude interjection at the end of an event that often provides us members of the public with what is nowadays a rare opportunity to "de-commercialise our consiousness if only for an hour or so". What could I say ... ?

p.s. you all can ignore this post as i do not want my nonsense to take us off topic.
admin wrote:The arbitrators of National Arbitration Forum have returned their decision and the BKWSO has been been unanimously denied the transfer of this domain name to their ownership.
regards
abek

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BKWSU not obliged to deal with poverty

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Nov 2007

Arjun, you are a better person than me.

I am sorry but I don't go along with being too "noble" about dealing with filth. I want to make this very clear, I am not saying that the individuals that were involved in this domain name scam are filth. I am saying that from a Brahmin point of view, the attitudes, the organizational collusion, all those eyes closed and backs turned in the name of "service", all those pea-brained accusations of "defamation of Baba" ... and the basic strategy were all filth. Extreme filth ... Money violence filth ... Which in my book is just about the lowest kind of filth there is on this planet.

I would bow before, and eat lunch with, a Lahore latrine cleaner before I would be in the same building than these people. Which, by all accounts, includes not just the complainant, but Janki, Big Mohini, and most of the Madhuban elite all who could have stopped this but chose not to ... who knew about it and chose to go along with it - opportunistically.

Are we wrong to ask, "was it Baba working through the good Colonel? Were proper channels consulted ... even those applying to registered 501 charities?" Or am I just naive to ask the same?

I would like to re-wind back to earlier discussions we had on this. But while I am at it, as a conscientious objector/peace campaigner type, can I just say ******* the US Military for its own brand of right wing terrorism which it has been plaguing over the developing nations for the last 50 to 150 years, or more, in the service of the capitalist machine and its oil ( ... or let's go back and start with its genocide of the Native Americans people). I don't buy its ******* about "defending the free world" any more than I do the BKWSU's "values education" *******. I am now highly educated in these people's "values".

What on earth is a "Godly" University doing getting into bed with a Military machine and bragging about rank?
abrahma Kumar wrote:So we are God's chosen keeping the BKWSU MotherShip afloat with our wealth of all sorts while we tell our Brothers and Sisters that they ought to go to their governments for financial handouts. Why? Oh, we do not want to incur further karmic accounts.

Many of us can remember the alacrity with which we were 'invited' by Seniors to donate MONEY after the Tsunami! Not, dear Brothers and Sisters, God's coffers are full to overflowing with cash as a consequence of your donations, so what do you think about the idea of the BKWSU making a financial contribution to a reputable disaster relief fund? Oh no, not them. It was more like dear Brothers and Sisters you will see that we have put some envelopes alongside Baba's boxes please ...

No, I am not bitter. Just very much awake ...
No, you are not bitter. Yes, you are just very much awake.

And I am sure that the vast majority of individuals, all those closed eyes, silenced voices and censored email accounts within the BKWSU can see this exactly for what it is. In my opinion, what 'The They' call "service" is, in fact, only the organization's PR. Doing PR is just about the MAIN "service" they do. Do they really think they are in such a superior position that spouting off theory at the UN constitutes the highest of service. Darlings, blowing your own trumpet is your own PR. Actions speak louder than words.

The likes of the "give us more money so we can take the credit" Tsunami Appeal was just face saving PR ... Funny how flexible their morals and principles can become when their PR interests are at stake. Even they were aware just how BAD it would look if they were not seen to give something but did they give ... no, they just got their followers to give me.

For me, the most interesting thing this whole business exposed was that the BKWSO has "no members". Neither does the BKWSU in the UK. I suspect this is the same the world over. So who is "The BKWSU"?

I think loyal BKs ought to be asking themselves, who are their unelect and unaccountable leadership that spend their money?

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Post by admin » 21 Nov 2007

The following is part of an email received from members of the BKWSU IT PR Team regarding the ownership of the domain during the recent dispute. It was included in our defence.

It raises important issues about the use of the property of the charitable organization for what appears to be personal interests, and the BKWSU's collusion in this, with mention of further correspondence between parties as proof.
> On 11/09/2007 Simon Blandford wrote:
>
> BTW. It is no longer secret knowledge ...

> So now we can phone him, email him, pay him a visit, send an Xmas card...

> Best,
> Simon

> > On 12/09/2007 Simon Blandford wrote:
> >
> > Hi Luis,
> >
> > We now know who 244 probably is. This is who we initially suspected
> > but later discounted.
> >
> > If you've been following the events on the BKI site you may be aware
> > that they think the BKWSU is trying to contest ownership of the
> > brahmakumaris.info domain. Actually, it turns out to be part of a
> > personal defamation case brought about by sister Hansa in TX since what
> > they said about her medical claims etc was libel. I don't fully
> > understand the specifics and it would be improper for me to forward
> > the email.

> > Best,
> > IBY,
> > Simon

> "A tiger earns its stripes. For some they are pretty or ugly. For a tiger it is just life."
> my speciality??... to harass self appointed gurus.

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Post by arjun » 21 Nov 2007

ex-l wrote:but Janki, Big Mohini, and most of the Madhuban elite all who could have stopped this but chose not to ... who knew about it and chose to go along with it - opportunistically.
I agree.
Are we wrong to ask, "was it Baba working through the good Colonel? Were proper channels consulted ... even those applying to registered 501 charities?" Or am I just naive to ask the same?
No, you aren't. And even if this 'mis'adventure of BKWSO, Texas was approved by the high command, it might have only been oral to avoid getting implicated in future. If the BKWSO does not pursue the matter further, then the entire blame would be put on one individual to keep the image of the high command clean, while they may also have been involved in this 'mis'adventure.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by warrior » 21 Nov 2007

Extreme filth ... Money violence filth ... Which in my book is just about the lowest kind of filth there is on this planet.
Dear Brother ex-l,

Can you tell us how much money BKWSU spent on this domain dispute and how much the Forum had to pay to defend this site? If possible, please convert/show us the amount in rupees value as well as US$.

Thanks.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Nov 2007

I do not know what their costs would have been but I would guess at least upwards of $30,000 or $35,000 (1.5 Million Rupees). May be even more. The interesting thing is that, as a public charity, all we have to do is wait until next year's accounts are presented and then we can read exact how much. And if it does not appear in the accounts, ask why not?

Should I try and define what I mean by "money violence" ... is it clear? I suspect that "justice" is bought in the same all over the world, typically by big corporations or rich people who can afford to throw money around thinking that the little person will be crushed or intimidated by it. Not by bribing judges but by using a legal system set up by people with property and wealth to defend people with property and wealth. Libel for example, if famously a rich person's law.

A typical example of this was theMcLibel case, involving the burger chain McDonalds, which ran for two and a half years, at a cost estimated around £10m, and became the longest ever English trial in which a $48bn corporation that spend $2bn a year promoting its, cough, food took to court a 21-year old gardener and a single parent of a disabled child.

Their crime? Handing out leaflets that claimed McDonalds;
  • sells unhealthy food
    exploits its work force
    practices unethical marketing of its products, especially towards children
    is cruel to animals
    needlessly uses up resources
    contributes to poverty in the Third World by forcing peasants either to leave their land in favour of export crops which could satisfy McDonald's needs, or to convert their land to raise cattle
    creates pollution with its packaging and
    is at least partly responsible for destroying the South American rain forests.
McDonalds thought David and Helen would bow to the pressure of their financial violence as there was no legal aid to defend them. McDonalds even employed spies to attempt to expose the activists. But the McLibel Two not only fought on but refused to pay £60,000 damages and then successfully took the UK Government to court because the UK libel laws failed to protect their human rights. Funnily enough, I have met them and they are both heroic vegans or vegetarians. But cost of it to their lives that the profit selfish corporate executives extracted was too great ... especially as it was proven that at least some of the claims they had denied were absolutely true. And the executives knew they were true. It is known as the greatest PR disaster of all time.

As an aside, my good friend and ally in the act of world and self transformation, BK Bacon, is quoted as saying McDonald's is, of all the big organizations he has worked with, "the most impressive". He praises its "freedom within a framework" model, so get ready for a taste of the future.

I suppose the BKWSU will offer a similar sort of deal. Flipping burgers for a few dollars a day ... or flipping the 7 Days Courses for nothing? Flipping hell.
suss gi wrote:BKWSU is a collective of individuals (?) who all have differing viewpoints politically. In other words, let's not criminalise people for being "BKs" or other.
I agree but their unelect and unaccountable leadership definitely does seem to have a corporate or political stance ...

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Are We in the Movies Now?

Post by proy » 21 Nov 2007

admin wrote:The following is part of an email received from members of the BKWSU IT PR Team regarding the ownership of the domain during the recent dispute. It was included in our defence.
The last time I heard a line like that it came from the mouth of a gangster character played by Al Pacino in a Hollywood crime movie.

Was it "Wise Guys?"

Have you found out yet which school his children go to Simon?

You could stand at the gates and offer them toli - keep them safe from nonces.

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Being smart; but not being clever."
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true cost to BKWSU ?

Post by sparkal » 21 Nov 2007

It may be that the true expense to BKWSU leadership is not in terms of £, $ or rupee's but in image and, indeed, the level of respect that their FOLLOWERS have for them. The whole scenario will serve as a lesson to any military dictator types who try to use the family name as a power base for selfish and personal reasons.

Such actions will, of course, be copied by the said followers. Is this a good example to set? Is this the future world? Will the "Golden Age" be brought about by arbitration? A judge's decision? Army's?

Would it be rude to ask why souls who live to such high moral standards/actions find themselves in this situation?

The one who does and does through others? Which one was behind this scene in the drama? Or might it be dodgy demons interFEARing again. We cannot blame everything on them of course. Is this then a reflection of how the BKWSU leader thinks? While protection from beyond may be on offer, I cannot see God picking up the tab every time a "BK" walks out without paying.

The souls are in there because they have things within that need changed, so there is no point expecting perfect behaviour from BKWSU. The rest are not out here because they are perfect either, of course, but some BKWSU "world servers" may have to think about wearing the uniform and badge, and the effect that it can have on the personality. Not to mention the true nature of the roles that are being played.

Some roles are very sensitive, but it is what lies in the heart which will decide the outcome with regards to the bigger picture.

So, how are our hearts everyone?

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Post by mr green » 21 Nov 2007

I am with ex-l on this, these people are SCUM. Evil is a good word for them.

And all those BKs who stood by and secretly wanted to see Baba's justice ... you fools.

Justice has been served and maybe God was behind it ... he certainly has nothing to do with the BKs!

Blandford, you should have stuck to collecting the headsets :lol:.

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Re: true cost to BKWSU ?

Post by proy » 21 Nov 2007

mr green wrote:evil is a good word for them :lol:
suss gi wrote:So, how are our hearts everyone?
robert nesta marley wrote:No weak heart shall prosper. And who soever diggeth a pit, shall fall, in it, bury in it.
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This case has been rejected by the Mediation Committee. Nyaa, ha, ha, ha, ha :mrgreen: MGCKWSUClick the Green Link
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Artist or band: Ziggy Marley
-----------------------------------------------
Love is my religion, Love is my religion, Love is my religion
I'll take you to the temple tonight

All my days I've been searching, to find out what this life is worth
through the books and bibles of time I've made up my mind
I don't condemn, I don't convert, this is a calling have you heard
bring all the lovers to the fold, cause no one is gonna lose their soul

Love is my religion, Love is my religion, Love is my religion
hey you can take it or leave it, and you don't have to believe it

I don't want to fight, hey let's go fly a kite
there's nothing that we cannot cure, and I'll keep you in my arms for sure
so don't let nobody stop us, free spirits have to soar
with you I share the gift, the gift that we now know oh oh oh

( Chorus )

Well I am done searching now, I found out what this life is worth
not in the books that I find, but by searching my mind
I don't condemn, I don't convert
this is the calling have you heard, bring all the lovers to the fold
no one is gonna lose their soul

( Chorus )

so don't let nobody stop us, free spirits have to soar
with you I share the gift, the gift that we now know oh oh oh
All we need is love

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Post by tinydot » 21 Nov 2007

Congratulations to our online team especially the administrators of this site. I have been so busy lately trying to resolve some personal problem.

The rest is I am just here reading your wonderful posts.

I think people are already sick and tired of all this religious propaganda, which includes the BK PR and attempt to control. It's good to know the arbitrators still possess some sound and logical minds.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Nov 2007

Those that don't study history and doomed to repeat it ...
  • Mahatma Gandhi; "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Yes, well, they did just that. I wonder what they will try next?

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