Janki Foundation is not a front organisation

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Janki Foundation is not a front organisation

Post by maybek » 12 Oct 2007

Hallo to all,

This is a post to let whoever is interested to know, including admin, admin and others who have mentioned the Janki foundation, that it is not a front organisation for the BKWSU. I say this knowing that there is no intention to create BKs through this outreach to health professionals.

Anyone who says differently is simply stating their opinion.

As such, I invite the admin to discuss it here rather than use past interactions with BKWSU and so old feelings about them to formulate ideas about the intentions of a specific service area /project, which has no BK 'philosophy' as such in it at all ... and which has no intentions to convert, control or manipulate ...

In the interest of objectivity, inclusivity and openness, I hope this post will stay up on site as long as there there is a reference to Janki Foundation in this way on the main news site.

Quoting admin, I believe the ethos of this site is: 'openness, objectivity and inclusivity'.

yours sincerely, maybe k

[PS. I do actually support the openness of this site ... and in particular the discussion forums, the support for each person who joins, whatever their belief, making it OK to highlight the contradictions that many experience, the focussed attempts to uncover the true history of the Yagya, the push to make BKWSU accept responsibility for sensitive issues they have neglected or ignored in the past and even can accept the speculation on the topics that you cannot prove. But I think you should be more open and say that you are actually speculating.]

Incidentally, the postscript is not meant as an attack ... I am stating what I think, that if the site is objective, it is far better to be open and say 'we speculate that ...' or 'our sources indicate/ say' , or 'going on past experience' ...

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Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Oct 2007

So how do you interpret BapDada's opinion of what it is? From a recent Vani dated 21 Oct 2005, what is "the task of giving the message through the Godly methods specified because, nowadays, people are most health conscious." Are the Janki Foundation folk just fooling God that it is service in order to get extra toli and dristhi? :wink:
BapDada spoke not wrote:Janki Foundation and Values in Health Care Group: Very good.

BapDada saw that the new children are performing very well the task of giving the message through the Godly methods specified because, nowadays, people are most health conscious.

So, with this method, you even showed BapDada a book; that will also become a good instrument for service. However, just like the name is - Foundation, in the same way, create a combined foundation of remembrance and service and continue to make the Janki Foundation move forward. Is this OK? [It is OK, is not it?] Yes, because your service can expand and move forward a lot. It is growing even now and it will continue to grow.

Baba had seen this values book. When you serve with very good zeal and enthusiasm, you receive its instant fruit. The more you continue to move forward, the closer you will continue to come. You have done this service everywhere.

All the other different Foundations will continue to come close under this Foundation. You are not tired, are you? You do double service. You have your jobs and you also do this. So, double foreigners! Double congratulations for double service. Very good.

I'd love to chew over what the Janki Foundation actually is and what its precise relationship with the BKWSU.

Of course, it so REALLY hard to pick through all the BK Doublespeak and secret service that we will probably have to define terms all the way. Was it just a way for the BKs to get someone to sponsor a hospital for them up in Abu? Or is it a sort of reward cum halfway house for exiting BK professionals? The BKWSU certainly use it in and as their PR to add credibility, the BK Wiki IT Team claim it as a BKWSU thing ... so what is the relationship between the two?

Someone else on the forum said that there are folk involved in it that really do mean well but there are problems with the orthodox BK end. Personally, I just don't think it ought to have been in her name. If it is NOT doing service, then it could be said to be TRADING on her goodwill.
  • Is Janki's name trademarked yet?
Where you really need to start is providing the legal papers for the organization in both the UK and India. The two do seem to share a significant proportion of "executives".

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is not it ironic ...?

Post by abrahma kumar » 13 Oct 2007

maybe k wrote:In the interest of objectivity, inclusivity and openness, I hope this post will stay up on site as long as there there is a reference to Janki Foundation in this way on the main news site. Quoting admin, I believe the ethos of this site is: 'openness, objectivity and inclusivity'.
Thanks for the post maybek. Prior to saying anything else, with nothing personal intended, that extract from your feedback can be read as a slur against this website. The facts of the matters are such, that is the BKWSO that is attempting to resctrict us discussing all manner of insight into the BKWSU.

So Maybek, i do not think you need to worry about any disappearance of your post ... except if the legal action that you can read about elsewhere on the site succeeds. Being certain that you would like to continue the discussion on this website, maybek you can talk to Dadi Janki on our behalf. Could you ... please? Thanks

Are you actually expressing a wish for this topic to remain separate from the already existing Dadi Janki topic that is on the site? Nice. If so I wonder why? Since we are talking about the same thing why not have them merged? There aint no need for frontin' is there? Maybe we ask via a vote topic. So that would mean we would have a Trimurti Dadi Janki Foundation topic on the site. Boy, i sure am crazy :P.

regards
Abrahma

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Post by fluffy bunny » 13 Oct 2007

I notice the Janki Foundation is mention on the BKWSU website under "what we do" and I notice that meditation is listed on the Janki Foundation as something "what we do".

The day there are no BKs on the board of the Janki Foundation, including Janki herself, I believe it has nothing to do with the BKWSU's game plan ... which is broader and not so simple as "making BKs". We know what the BKWSU game plan is.

Elsewhere I have documented exhaustively the personal connections between the two organizations including the involvement of the very same Hansa "Cancer Cure" Raval that started legal action against this site ... so is it any surprise that this topic arises? If it has nothing to do with the BKWSU, why are unpaid administrators and fully surrendered BKs such as Jayanti, Janki and Nirvair spending their time on it? Why are others spending their money and BK donations on it?

I, personally, think the whole "values" things is also BKWSU "front". A foot in the door for further "service" operations where orthodox Gyan would be given the boot. In fact, I remember the start of it and knew individuals involved. I'll ask them. One of the problem in dealing with or defining the BKWSU as it is now that there are so many new BKs that know nothing of the history of their own organization and little of the MO. But I am happy to work at investigating it.

May be they ought to change the name to the "Hydra Foundation"?
Image

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Post by arjun » 13 Oct 2007

abrahmakumar wrote:maybek, are you actually expressing a wish for this topic to remain separate from the already existing Dadi Janki topic that is on the site? Nice. If so I wonder why? Since we are talking about the same thing why not have them merged? There aint no need for frontin' is there? Maybe we ask via a vote topic. So that would mean we would have a Trimurti Dadi Janki Foundation topic on the site. Boy, I sure am crazy .
Dear brother,

Om Shanti. I think we should be humble enough to accept the proposal of BK maybek and allow this post to remain a separate thread. If this step can reinforce the faith of BKs on this site, then I think it would more than achieve the proclaimed aim of 'openness, objectivity and inclusivity' of this site. If required this thread could be shifted to the BK section.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 13 Oct 2007

I agree to it being moved is 'maybek' wants, although my post will probably make a few BKs think.

I would like to underline that a lot of what I write or upload has a metaphorical meaning that will not always be understood by those with limited or prejudiced minds.

I think the cartoon above is very good but I do not use it to portray the individuals in question. I query if at times we individually and collectively allow 'evil spirits' (the snakes) to work through us, whether these be vices or actual malevolent entities; and that there is an unseen war of influences within the BK family. Individuals with limited or prejudiced minds often attempt to misinterpret or misconstrue what I say to others (and worse patronize me), especially to non-BKs that have not a clue what it is we are talking about.

But much of it is actually inline with what is written in the Murli. We must keep a strong vigil watching out for these illwinds so that we are not swept along by them. We cannot afford to rest, never mind fall asleep to dream. Perhaps if the BKWSU would allow the world to have access to the entire Knowledgebase, it would be easier to substantiate. I used to be upset when I read in the Sakar Murlis about "crippled or malformed children" but now I understand what it means.

(For discussion elsewhere ... back on topic please.)

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Post by maybek » 13 Oct 2007

ex-l wrote:"the task of giving the message through the Godly methods specified because, nowadays, people are most health conscious." Are the Janki Foundation folk just fooling God that it is service in order to get extra toli and dristhi?
Depends what your interpretation of giving the message is. We can only work authentically with what we believe in, not what others believe in.

Then there is motivation, what inspires one to do something. What inspires you to keep seeking more things to open up in BKWSU? Perhaps you feel you are doing real service by doing this. Perhaps I feel I am doing real service through Values in Healthcare, which does include meditation as one of its spiritual tools.

If you look at the values pack, it requires a lot of work as the whole experience is workshop based. It is facilitating others to be in touch with their values and how they understand, experience and use (spiritual) values like compassion, positiveness, co-operation, peace, self-care and spirituality in healthcare.

There is no slur intended ... yes, the naming is another issue ... the relationship between Janki Foundation and BKWSU, is always going to be there in some way, cannot get away from it ... that does not mean it has malevolent intentions.

At then end of the day, true spirituality based on recognising your spiritual qualities/virtues/values and strengthening these is what this service is about ... and this is universal, whether you do it BK way, Pbk, ex-BK, any other splinter group way. Or any New Age way, Buddhist or any of the main religions way. or any other way ... if you want to get to the guts or essence that is.

Thanks Arjun for your support.

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Post by maybek » 13 Oct 2007

Any way, the legal action is arbitration and I wish you luck with that, mostly because I support your right to freedom of speech, and the friendship/ support that people are giving to each other through this forum. It is not a joke to disagree with BKWSU and have no space to voice your feelings.

Please don't forget, some of really want to work with the good we have gained from our years slogging in BK philosophy, and I really hope we all have a chance to do that ...

Best wishes
maybe k

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Observing without a preference

Post by abrahma kumar » 13 Oct 2007

I hope that the www does not misunderstand my post. My feedback was intended as observation rather than an expression of a pro or contra view upon maybek's request that the topics be kept separate. This may have been unlear. I was expressing my opinion that maybek ought not to be overly concerned that the topic would disappear or be merged with any other topic.

My experience of the site admin leads me to feel confident that 'they' do always give consideration to ALL members of this cyber-community.

Personally i am very accepting of maybek's request and would welcome continued contributions.

regards
abek

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Post by fluffy bunny » 13 Oct 2007

maybek wrote:Any way, the legal action is arbitration ...
Wake up my friend ... it is not "arbitration". It is a legal dispute and a final legal process to decide the ownership of the property of this domain name and no less. Arbitration is voluntary and this legal action is by legal force. And it is a Janki Foundation leader that is sponsoring it and carrying it out.

I think my query would be down to 'clear labeling'. Is it "mediation" or is it "Brahma Kumari style Raja Yoga meditation". Would the Janki Foundation, for an valid scientific experiment, test the efficacy of either practise, promote TM members and TM meditation for, say 6 months to a year, to see if there was a difference?

And, of course, on the other hand we have observed widely how BK members are portrayed not as members of the BKWSU at meetings but as members of such front organizations/trusts/charities instead. Look at Point of Life and Living Values, voice of Hope for example, are these clearly labeled as BK operations?

You see, ultimately, I can remember going back to the start of this whole service scheme (the "values" stuff) and conversations with now senior BKs. The whole gist was about "how could they get into places that would refuse them if they came on as obvious BKs doing obvious BK service" and the answer was to re-brand with this values stuff. There were direct questions about what alternative language to use to cover up what was going on. It was successful and so it was adopted. In law, one would call this the 'mens rea' (the defining intention, literally the "guilty mind") contrary to 'actus reus' (the outward action, literally the "guilty act").

But for me it is NOT about our subjective interpretations, I despise subjective interpretations, it is about what BapDada is saying. His comments, the meeting, the individuals involved, the rewards back to the organization, squarely define it as a BKWSU outreach programme with good PR value for them with which they can inject the BK practise, and ultimately, initiate potentially vulnerable individuals into a relationship with the Shiva spirit without them being told or knowing it.

Ultimately, that is unethical and possible illegal. And I think the BKs risk becoming unstuck because, as in politics, there are many countries where there is strict legislation defining what can and cannot be done within government properties connected to religion. Given that BK-ism is a religion which also involves mediumship and spirit channeling, I think it is risking to be found trying to slip one's religion into hospitals etc under the radar.

Of course, values are wonderful. Honesty and openness are two of my favorites. But the big question mark is, what BapDada or the so-called 'Shiva' spirit is up to ... and we know what that is. One might be a good footsoldier of the ShivShakti Army chipping away at the values front only ... but how are you being used by the Generals back at BKWSU HQ?

How many non-BKs are involved and have they been made aware of the game plan?

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Post by maybek » 19 Oct 2007

Thanks for clarifying your position abek and ex-l.

Whatever I say will wind up winding up someone and that is not my intention. So here is a short double statement:
  • The administration is ex-l lent to the forum.
and a long single statement:
  • honesty and openness are good for growth when divested of underlying blame, judgement, guilt or anger, the latter making the honesty bitter instead of insightful and a catalyst for change. At least that's how I prefer my honesty and openness.
And a slogan:
  • happiness comes from letting go
And a comment:
  • perception, interpretation, extrapolation ... have to be careful with all 3.
This may be one of my last posts here ... (mostly as pretty busy and away.)

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Post by fluffy bunny » 19 Oct 2007

maybek wrote:the administration is ex-l lent to the forum.
LOL :D !

please ... is this going to be the extent of BK contributions? If there is one thing that amazes me it is how you can tell me what I am thinking, what my motiviations are and why they always come up with negative, personalized intepretations at me rather than just address the evidence!

I am genuinely sorry to burst your bubble. Imagine how I felt when I discover with my own eyes that it was not all what I was told by the leadership. But, to me, such a yukti just seems like the easiest way to try and get out of providing down to earth, concrete answers.
  • If you cant argue against the message ... "SHOOT THE MESSENGER"
On topic, in my opinion it would be naive to say that if the Janki Foundation is not a BK front, or was not intended to be a BK front .. then it is certainly being used as a BK front. But this is open to discussion.

Personally, in balance, I think it is both a front and contrary to Shrimat for sanctifying an individual rather than a quality (e.g. Karuna Trust) ... the latter of which is a funny accusation to make after BapDada, above, congratulates it for being good for service!

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Post by arjun » 19 Oct 2007

maybek wrote:This may be one of my last posts here ... (mostly as pretty busy and away.)
Om Shanti. There are very few BK posters on this forum and I hope you will continue your relationship with us despite any reservations that you may have about this forum or some of its members. You must not lose heart and continue to post at least in the BK section. If not anything else, you can contribute by posting Murlis or the extracts thereof.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Janki Foundation is not a front organisation

Post by joel » 19 Oct 2007

maybek wrote:This is a post to let whoever is interested to know, including admin, admin and others who have mentioned the Janki foundation, that it is not a front organisation for the BKWSU. I say this knowing that there is no intention to create BKs through this outreach to health professionals.

Anyone who says differently is simply stating their opinion ... [snip] ... if the site is objective, it is far better to be open and say 'we speculate that ...' or 'our sources indicate/ say' , or 'going on past experience' ...
Hi Maybek,

I appreciate your good wishes, and the time you take to express your views.

I would like to highlight the double standard in your first post in this topic: you claim to know the purposes and intentions behind the Janki Foundation, to know it is not a "front organization" for the BKWSU. You implicitly ask us to trust you on this as you present no evidence we could evaluate for ourselves. Toward other viewpoints, especially those which you take to be negative, you say should be framed as speculation in the aim of objectivity.

ex-l responds that he is not speculating: he has evidence.

Even the best wishes do not make evidence disappear. Speculation based on evidence is far stronger, in my opinion, than inner conviction one presents as unsupported assertions -- that is what you appear to be doing here. I am sure all of us would be interested in evidence you have, such as bylaws of the foundation, statements of board members, etc., if these are what underlie your certainty. If your certainty is based on your understanding of God, drama, and the Human World Tree, so be it, just say so openly.

Regards,

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Post by mr green » 20 Oct 2007

Although I really appreciate your posting, Maybek ... I have to say I think you're wrong too.

The Janki Foundation would not exist if it were not for the BKs. Of course it is a public front for service or seva ... and seva is the business of BKs of which all the core group of the Janki Foundation are (BKs).

I am not having a go in saying this either, nor am I wanting to wind anyone up, it is true ... unless you make yourselves totally independant of the mothership!

I think you should, if you really believe in the values pack as a useful tool for health people then promote it yourselves either as a completely independent charitable organisation or as your own business venture ... so no having to run things by senior BKs for approval for instance!

You and many others may have really believe in it as something accessible to health professionals who suffer a lot of stress at work ... then cut your links with the Brahma Kumaris otherwise you are essentially still a front for them. Either you understand what I am saying or you are being used ... you've put all the work into this, what do the senior sisters know about health professionals? ... if you're not part of what they are about, then why are the BKs the present at all of your official meetings?

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