Extreme karma

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bkdimok
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Post by bkdimok » 17 Oct 2007

ex-l wrote:I have higher expectations of my gods and their instruments. Right now, I just want to know when and how it changed, why and what else they kept secret.
I don't have any expectations. I am just watching this entertaining movie. It is as it is, it was as it was and it will be as it will be. When you are being raped, the first advice of psychologists is to relax and enjoy. It was hard, but I managed and now it is entertaining TV show for me.

With regards, Shankar

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Post by fluffy bunny » 17 Oct 2007

bkdimok wrote:When you are being raped, the first advice of psychologists is to relax and enjoy. It was hard, but I managed and now it is entertaining TV show for me.
Personally, I prefer my erotica vanilla-flavored rather than such hardcore, violent pornography ... but seriously, are you talking theoretically or practically here!?!

My deepest concerns go out to you, or any other woman reading this, who has been personally affected in this manner.
andrey wrote:Of course, it is just the way the police operates. First we are caught by the police and then put in front of the court. Now we wait the sentence to be announced. We are not Brothers here
I have been thinking about this all today and came up with the conclusion that you must be feeling guilty, as if you are committing a crime. Hence, anyone looking for facts must be an agent of justice.

I have been thinking of what crime you might be guilty of that the BKs are too, and why therefore you might like to keep the light away from it ... and what I came up with is that you are both hold back information from the public and we on the forum.

You are obviously well studied in both Advanced and Basic Knowledge but yet I get the feeling that you are holding back form us. I can understand why Virendra Dev Dixit might do so likewise if his life is under threat ... as I believe it could well be.

It is my sincerely hope and vision that this forum will be the end of all that by making light of it all ... something I know other BKs of all hue share.

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Post by john » 17 Oct 2007

bkdimok wrote:I don't have any expectations. I am just watching this entertaining movie. It is as it is, it was as it was and it will be as it will be. When you are being raped, the first advice of psychologists is to relax and enjoy. It was hard, but I managed and now it is entertaining TV show for me.
To be honest that sounds quite sick, you seem very disconnected from reality.

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Post by bkdimok » 18 Oct 2007

ex-l wrote:Personally, I prefer my erotica vanilla-flavored rather than such hardcore, violent pornography ... but seriously, are you talking theoretically or practically here!?!
Om Shanti. I guess the word "rape" was understood literally. I used this word in the meaning of the highest form of violence, when somebody is doing with you something which you don't want, for example; I did not want to be born in this country, to have such parents, to have such friends etc.

But all this doesn't depends on my own will. It depends only on my previous karma. So it is violence. When you cannot do what you want and things happens with you according to somebody's will (in spite of Karma don't have will it is just a law of nature).

So when I understood that I cannot do anything with my previous karma, I relaxed. Not fast, because desire to change something, to reduce sufferings etc was strong, but neverheless I began to calm down. And now I am just watching how all this is going, because God knows what to do and how to do. And definitely He will do it well. So, my wish to you is to relax a little and try to become God's instruments.

With regards, Shankar.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 18 Oct 2007

bkdimok wrote:So, my wish to you is to relax a little and try to become God's instruments.

Again, for me, at present I am not so sure that God and Shiva Baba are one and the same.

Which do you mean? I am still waiting for the mysterious revelation of how and when Shiva Baba first entered the BKWSU.

It was during the 1990 Texas governor election that the Republican contender Clayton Williams caused a big stir by quipping to reporters about rain, "It's a lot like rape. As long as it's inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it." It is also credited to the Malaysian leader Haji Rosalyn Johar Mohamed, avid Fox, chair of English Fire Authority and former leader of a County Council. It seems to be a particularly male assertion, from males that seek power, that goes along with the myth that women enjoy it. I have never heard a female use it.

On an metaphorical level, I have problems with it as well. Most rapes are carried out by people the victims know, it is thought to be a power trip over others brought about by penetration and violation. This happens on more and more subtle levels as we progress spiritually. The face might be peaceful and smiling but behind the back the knife is being stuck in. What to do in such a situation? Fight back or roll over? Yield or resist?

It is hard for me to know what is right. Women and the poor in India have been so conditioned to violations and domination in India over millennia even still in Gyan ... is it purely "their karma" to roll over and accept? Was karma not used to control the poor and weak and indulge the rich and powerful?

I accept your metaphorical meaning and am sorry to jump down your throat. I was half shocked, half concerned it had happened to you.

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Post by john » 18 Oct 2007

bkdimok wrote:my wish to you is to relax a little and try to become God's instruments.
Is God truth or an organisation?

Anyone who wants to find and reveal the truth IS doing God's work.
Anyone lying for an organisation, be it BK or PBK, cannot be doing God's work.

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Post by bkdimok » 18 Oct 2007

ex-l wrote:1. Again, for me, at present I am not so sure that God and Shiva Baba are one and the same. Which do you mean?

2. The face might be peaceful and smiling but behind the back the knife is being stuck in. What to do in such a situation? Fight back or roll over? Yield or resist?

3. It is hard for me to know what is right. Women and the poor in India have been so conditioned to violations and domination in India over millennia even still in Gyan ... is it purely "their karma" to roll over and accept? Was karma not used to control the poor and weak and indulge the rich and powerful?
Om Shanti.
  • 1. I mean God. When there is no clarity Who is God, I prefer to talk about God. Whatever religion or philosophy you belong to if there is God, then He have some qualities which are undoubtful. For me there is no doubt that there is God. For me there is no doubt that He loves us. For me there is no doubt that if I want to become pure and help Him to make pure somebody else He will help me. For me there is no doubt that I can speak with Him any time and in any form I want. For me there is no doubt that He will find the way how to answer my questions and direct me. All I have to do is to start this conversation with Him, the rest is His problems.

    2. If according to your karma you will die from the knife of your best friend (for example), you cannot do anything with this. All you can do now is make efforts to not to repeat sinfull actions which lead to such karma. Of course you can try to resist, but it is just the matter of time when your friend will find you and put his knife into your back (just example). You cannot avoid punishment for your bad karma. Rape is also a punishment. It means that you cause as much sufferings as you get at the moment.

    3. It is purely their karma. Mechanism: one life I am a man and my wife suffers from my behaviour. Next life I am a wife and I am suffering from my husband.
    Any knowledge my be used for good and for bad purposes. Knowledge of karma law was used to control the poor and weak and indulge the rich and powerful. Kali yuga is Kali yuga.
What do you expect from the most unrighteous and unjust time? That is why I try not to have ANY expectations. I try not to have expectations even from God, because I don't know what is good for me indeed.

With regards, Shankar

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john
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Post by john » 18 Oct 2007

bkdimok wrote:You cannot avoid punishment for your bad karma.
Is not that what Yoga is about, removing bad karma.
Rape is also a punishment. It means that you cause as much sufferings as you get at the moment.
Is it not possible that the rapist is just creating fresh bad karma against the victim?
3. It is purely their karma. Mechanism: one life I am a man and my wife suffers from my behaviour. Next life I am a wife and I am suffering from my husband.
Are you suggesting all husbands make wifes suffer?
What a strange view.
2. If according to your karma you will die from the knife of your best friend (for example), you cannot do anything with this. All you can do now is make efforts to not to repeat sinfull actions which lead to such karma. Of course you can try to resist, but it is just the matter of time when your friend will find you and put his knife into your back (just example)
Are you not confusing karma with fatalism?

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Post by bkdimok » 18 Oct 2007

john wrote:1.
-You cannot avoid punishment for your bad karma.
-Is not that what Yoga is about, removing bad karma.
2.
-Rape is also a punishment. It means that you cause as much sufferings as you get at the moment.
-Is it not possible that the rapist is just creating fresh bad karma against the victim?
3.
-It is purely their karma. Mechanism: one life I am a man and my wife suffers from my behaviour. Next life I am a wife and I am suffering from my husband.
-Are you suggesting all husbands make wifes suffer?What a strange view.
4.
-If according to your karma you will die from the knife of your best friend (for example), you cannot do anything with this. All you can do now is make efforts to not to repeat sinfull actions which lead to such karma. Of course you can try to resist, but it is just the matter of time when your friend will find you and put his knife into your back (just example
-Are you not confusing karma with fatalism?
Om Shanti.
1. You cannot remove your bad karma which you did. According to karma law you will receive so much sufferings as much you did to smb. You only can do not create new bad karma. Also you can create new good karma.

2. There was a mistake I wanted to say: It means that you had caused as much sufferings as much you are getting at the moment. Of course the rapist is creating new bad karma for which he will be punished. And the victim is closing her bad karma account.

3. If you a husband and you make your wife suffer you will suffer. This life or next. In the female or male body. As much sufferings you give so much sufferings you will receive.

4. I guess you know about predestination of Drama? This predestination occurs on the basis of the natural laws. One of them is Law of Karma.

With regards, Shankar

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Post by bkdimok » 18 Oct 2007

john wrote:1. Then what is the meaning of karmateet and how does anyone become such?
2. It is said in Murli, 'if you don't make any effort, then you won't even get a glass of water' which to me is Shiva's way of dealing with fatalists, who think 'what does it matter what we do, it is all in drama anyway'.
Om Shanti.
  • 1. Karmateet is the stage when you do not create good or bad karma. This stage is in the Golden Age. Deities act but do not create any karma, because they do ordinary actions. They do no bad or good actions.

    There are no bad (which lead to suffering) actions in the Golden Age. There are no good (which lead to benefit) actions in the Golden Age. There are only simple actions such as eat, dance, walk, sing, sleep etc (they just spend their soul energy). Actions of deities are simple (akarma) only in the context of the Golden Age, but in the context of Kali yuga it is sukarma (good actions). So if somebody achieves the stage of karmateet now, he begins to create good karma constantly.

    As for full stage of karmateet (when we create no karma and spend no energy), it is possible only when we have no body to act in. That's why it is said in the Murlis that we will achieve it at the end. As we achieve that stage we leave this body.

    2. You are right. But it seems to me that you consider me one of them?
Shankar

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Post by john » 18 Oct 2007

In the Murli it says, "sins are absolved by the power of Yoga". The higher the number, the less punishment of bad karma by Dharamraj. Therefore, to me, it is saying bad karma is being removed through Yoga. It is said the top 8 souls will suffer little punishement by Dharamraj, so how is their bad karma removed, if not through Yoga/remembrance?

Revised Sakar Murli dated 05/05/04 published by BKs
The Father has explained: Those of you who consider yourselves to be children should tell Baba about the sins you have committed, as Baba is personally in front of you, and then that burden of sin will become light. You will become light in this birth. Then, you also have to make effort to remove the burden of sin of many births that is on your head. The Father is explaining to you about Yoga. It is only through Yoga that your sins will be absolved.

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Post by andrey » 18 Oct 2007

We should be able to achieve the stage where karma is akarma, even now in the Confluence Age, because otherwise how will Confluence Age transform into Golden Age? This is the transformation we have to do in us. It is said by Baba in the Murli that if we are in 100 % remembrance of the Father one does not aquire sin.

If culmination of the karmateet stage means leaving the body, and if everyone is to achieve karmateet stage numberwise and leave the body, then who will remain? The World will ?ease to be.

Dear brother john, it is said in the Murli that the 8 do not suffer punishment at all, not that they suffer little punishment. That's why it is said they "pass with honors". Then the rest to the 108 suffer a little punishment.

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Post by bkdimok » 18 Oct 2007

john wrote:In the Murli it says Sins are absolved by the power of Yoga. The higher the number, the less punishment of bad karma by Dharamraj, therefore to me it is saying bad karma is being removed through Yoga. It is said the top 8 souls will suffer little punishement by Dharamraj, so how is their bad karma removed, if not through Yoga/remembrance?
Om Shanti. Through Yoga you can remove your habit to commit bad actions. You can change your sanskars. As for the top 8 souls, they will pass without punishment. And they will be in the jury with Dharmraj at the head. Punishment of Dharmraj is not a punishment for bad karma. It is punishment for not achieving higher status.

Punishment for bad karma will be during Destruction and now as different material sufferings. Dharmraj punishes for not achieving 1 st place status.

With regards, Shankar

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Post by john » 18 Oct 2007

bkdimok wrote: Punishment for bad karma will be during Destruction and now as different material sufferings. Dharmraj punishes for not achieving 1 st place status.
Revised Sakar Murli dated 05/05/04 published by BKs
The Father has explained: Those of you who consider yourselves to be children should tell Baba about the sins you have committed, as Baba is personally in front of you, and then that burden of sin will become light. You will become light in this birth. Then, you also have to make effort to remove the burden of sin of many births that is on your head. The Father is explaining to you about Yoga. It is only through Yoga that your sins will be absolved.
Here it says, "remove the burden of sins of many births". The sanskars are being changed so as to not commit any more sin and the burden of negative karma is being removed. Negative karma is an accumulation of 2,500 years. A negative sanskar is the cause of creating a sin. What is this sin that has to be removed by effort from past births, if not negative karma?

I have to agree with Andrey here on the issue of becoming Karmateet

And ex-l here
This topic needs split and moved ...

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Post by bkdimok » 19 Oct 2007

john wrote:Here it says, "remove the burden of sins of many births". The sanskars are being changed so as to not commit any more sin and the burden of negative karma is being removed. What is this sin that has to be removed by effort from past births, if not negative karma?
Om Shanti, it seems to me that you have the same sociotype as me in this birth. Karma is not accumulating along 2,500 years. You did something wrong - you will close that account during this life or next, maximum after next. The same is with good karma. You live good, pure life, help others, make donations, serve God somehow - as a result you will get prosperous life in the next birth. So at this life we don't have so huge account of good or bad karma. We have account of previous 2-3 lifes. But we have an account of sanskars of 2,500 years. We won't come to the Golden Age with such past karma and such sanskars. As for karma it will be closed automatically by sufferings or pleasures. As for sanskars we can remove them only through Yoga.

As for karmateet stage, I suppose it will be explained more detailed in the future. Because it is hard to me to use English properly and say to you what I want to say. There must be good translator. But it doesn't mean that this post about karmateet stage is wrong. It just needs some further explanation.

With best wishes, Shankar

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