Where do we go from here?

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alladin
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Goddess of Mercy

Post by alladin » 04 Dec 2007

I feel that love, mercy and compassion the way Eugene describes them and motivates them, can be healthy and in fact an aim for us all to achieve, if springing from and being supported by awareness. Otherwise, mercy can be a big trap. We feel we are good, we don't want to harm anyone, we offer the other cheek, we think we merged a lot of garbage, and in fact we have gradually absorbed it, we've become someone's doormats.

So, one thing is standing stall, in the light, conscious of being masters, raja, and not praja-servants,- like Bap-Dada said in the latest Murli, assertive and not rabid, and from that "throne", bestow forgiveness, good wishes that impostor body conscious souls as Button Slammer calls them :lol: , can benefit from. What I describe is a stage, a very elevated one. Which passages does a damaged, castrated , dysfunctional , abused and deluded BK soul has to go through, before getting there? Different for each one of us. I see phases of letting the steam of, of realizing any wrongdoings in the BKWSO, the bonding and sharing with other people who had similar experiences and overcoming the fear of "speaking up", breaking the omerta rule, overcoming the fear of being labelled as " anti", going beyond taboos and dogmas, step by step, certainly not overnight, deprogramming..

Throughout these, and many more phases, I think that some of the powers who sustain us, are: the instinct of survival and balance, the strive for truth and justice, like ex-l was writing, real love for the self, the desire to nourish our higher self and not kill it or letting other people choke it. Maybe, before becoming Kannon, or whatever the Buddhist female like deity of Mercy, we have to become Kali, and put our foot down, destroy lies within us, make some space between us and the people or cults that want to condition us or vampirize us.

Nothing wrong with becoming confident or independent minded. Baba is very ambiguous and ambivalent in this. One day he'll say "judge for yourself", next day he will request to set aside our rational mind and just surrender. But this is our intimate relationship with the Supreme. When human beings step into the picture, including SS who pressure BKs in many ways, including to consider them as flawless and never failing gurus, I want to listen to my gut feelings and alert my antennas (hopefully no one managed to cut them completely!) and if something smells "fishy", pause and listen some more, until I get a clearer idea about what's going on.

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tete
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My pms are shut down by me. Thank you and best wishes to
you in your life's journey. :-)

Let's offer each other "Mutual Support" and enjoy

Post by tete » 04 Dec 2007

I must say that I have some issues with overly hostile statements and discussions are best when argued by cogent points, not direct hits at the person. Yes, I defended Kevin, but I will admit he did run around calling a PBK "witch" and, yes, she did incite him. So, it was a tit for tat at best.

I, honestly, thought and still think we can all work together to better understand each other. For one, it is easy to make them (strike statements ... "psycho"), and not easy to receive them. Yes, we need to vent, but members like some here need to share their thoughts with like minded ones in their BK forum, PBK forum, ex-BK or Newcomer forums etc:
ex-l wrote:11-22-2007: I would love for there to remain a non-commercial, non-state control, non-PR wing to BKWSU, a place where BKs can be free within their own kind; voicing, accepting and exploring.
That said we need to offer respect as often the message is lost if the delivery is spiked with un-pleasantries, and some thing totally inspiring can spiral downwards fast. If we aren’t sensitive to the fact that we are human creatures in need of courtesy we quickly loose the community feeling that has developed over time.

I won’t quote who said it but suffice to say that in the other areas beyond those forum with specific discussion forums, yes, any and all my encounter barbarians. I do believe Arjun was dully warned and took it with a grain of salt and seems to be doing just fine and handling/holding his own. ;-) I mention him as the other that is very well respected is Mitra. Although since the domain dispute Mitra has not been seen. :-(

As we enter into the holidays and the New Year we should assess that yes, we have all the freedom, but at that same time let us offer some kindness to those that are in earnest trying to partake with others in their religious experience. I learned some interesting things by just observing some of the PBK topics, although I will admit I generally don’t read them (with the exception of Arjun’s summations at the end of the translations) but on occasion will take a peek.

I would like to do like wise (observe and learn) with the BKs, as for someone like me it offers a window into understanding some thing that was for all intents and purposes a secret. I would often have long discussions with Howie about Gy’s writings as he was as close to a BK as far as explaining the knowledge that I knew. We would get all excited when he would write a long post and then discuss it. Keep in mind I never converted, nor have I even done the “course” but from religious interest it was interesting and it helped me understand my family.


So, if we beat each other ( (with word sticks ...) we wouldn’t be offering "Mutual Support" and it would stifle the interaction. Like Ferguson said, "I'll show them, I did not even know who them were, but I was going to show them!" ... "I have found that the only way I could deal with it, was to find other people to talk to with similar experiences ... !" The point is we don't know at what point in their journey they are and so we have to error on the side of humanity, compassion and kindness.

I find beauty in all and have grown to have great appreciation for some, as some like Sparkle will write some witty things ... which shows that BKs can be very funny, very human, and not all "ethereal" Gyani.

Let's start with the love within and then let it flow out in abundance to others, even those that have offended us, so that we can move forward. We all have one thing in common, some of you were the "family", some are the "family", some are "family" via separation (splinter groups) and some like me had "family" within your "family". So, like a big family, we can make room to fit everyone in, old ones, little ones, those filled with zest/life Springing, an odd one or two and enjoy each others company.

Cheers, Tete


P.S. Forewarned: Watch out for the passes from the Dear Ones ... humour has its rewards ;-)

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transparency in all

Post by sparkal » 05 Dec 2007

For those who think that war is breaking out, the "PBKs", or, A "PBK" has taken the opportunity to clarify what they as an individual see as the PBK agenda. It may well have been written by a "BK". So, if both factions have the same aim and object, why is there this division between them? Let's look at inner circles. Both these factions/orgs. have inner circles who may think slightly different to the regular student of either, or at last who know more.

So, is the difference between them their leaders? But Shiva speaks through both (:?:) , is Shiva in conflict with the self? So, the differences are definitely among the leaders then. Or is there indeed 3 Advance Party's as reportedly said in a Murli?(?) There are lots of us out here, only a very few of us write on this forum. I ask the questions partly for them therefore. Or, should I only think of my SELF? There is a balance perhaps. Indeed, some may wonder what I am doing asking such silly questions to a PBK.

It may be because THIS faction, BK.info, also has an inner circle or inner forum. I declined the chance to be part of the inner forum and so am as ignorant as the rest of you people out there and have to a large degree, been out of the loop with regards to deeper discussion off forum. So don't any of you inner circle souls question my ignorance as I am one of many many who want answers and clarification. It can be done out here on the world stage. The secret societies and inner circles are over. I am not accusing or anything like that, I am talking about TRUE TRANSPARENCY. We cannot accuse others of not having it then do the same.

I will wait along with God's other children out there for a detailed in depth account of the knowledge/ story, or, that which we have yet to here, no matter how uncomfortable or unspeakable.

Buttonslammer has given the impression that the "PBKs" are open and transparent and are willing to answer such questions. Are the "BKs" rather suspicious by their absence? We are only ever heading for open honest true transparency in the world and no one should think otherwise. The days of confiscating knowledge and truth are over.

There is as much slavery now as 300 years ago. Poverty is rife. If I am poking under rocks with a big stick, part of that is to determine who, if any of these groups, are in operation with those who cause slavery and poverty, not to mention war. I don't mean those who have connections, I mean those who agree with it and are in on it and are part of it and agree with what is going on. Understand that such days are numbered. Shiva came to free souls, and that will be done. It is time for some to take stock of their actions and karma.

Some on the forum are talking about a new discovery called sex. I discovered that in my teens, there is nothing new about it. Give us something new. Don't assume that all of us will get away with it either. There are other rocks to be poked under, one has got graffiti painted on it. It says transparency.

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Post by eromain » 06 Dec 2007

Great discussion and great ideas. What else should we also add into the mix when we think about how the site might evolve?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Dec 2007

I think folks should consider the balance between putting in some "work" to support this site to make it a useful, BK related resource and how much they 'take out' by way of general chit-chat and back-biting.

One suggestion ... which will cause waves ... is to start a "consumer review" of BK centers, and perhaps related items such as books etc. By consumer review, I mean a list of all the centers, who their teachers are general pros and cons.

Basically a "Rough Guide" guidebook to the BKWSU preparing and protecting newcomers. As an example, quite by accident I got "trapped" at a small center once early on in my BK career and then stopped from opening another one. At the time I took it in trust that the SS were considering my spiritual growth etc. What I realised later was that the center-in-charge had "history" and the SS need folks to stick with the center for its good not mine. Likewise, I went to a larger center of which the sun was supposed to shine from its drainpipe ... but actually it was ripe with turbo-charged Maya of all sorts.

I am not sure what software that would require, perhaps the Encyclopedia could be used, but something that could give a 'star rating' would be good. Might waken up a few sleepy heads. Reading your post on getting the best out of Janki Kripalani, I would also suggest a guidebook to new BKs. (File under "more work, less play").

What is the current bottom line as to getting the Murlis up on the site? Are any of the great donors going to come forward and deliver?

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Post by bro neo » 07 Dec 2007

This site will become what the most influential members make it to be. Some want it to be a strict 'facts only' info site; others like it to be a place where EX-BKs, PBKs, BKs who are honestly searching for the truth and all those inbetween can be themselves and meet others who are also being themselves.

Tension, censorship (in some form at least) and solid friendships will be here, and that is just because this site has become an online community for good people with good intentions. If this site continues to be honest, true and respect everyone as individuals rather then try to over control, categorize, and manipulate others and what they say this place will be a place where history will be made.

It will be a site where people will become great and make others great.

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closing space

Post by sparkal » 07 Dec 2007

Technology is still expanding, in its infancy even. Who knows what will be possible as time goes on.

One can only imagine that the gulf between this site, and others, and BKWSU centres will close as time goes on as things become more integrated.

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five stars centers

Post by alladin » 08 Dec 2007

Great idea, ex-l; the Lonely Planet travel guide, or the "Michelin" for spiritual pilgrims with stars and facilities attributed. In cyber version, though, so it can be updated constantly. You know, chefs and managers and proprietors change ...

I remember one season when Bap-Dada tried to shift around teachers, but they tend to cling to their favourite gaddhis and are as immovable as boulders. So our initiative could make them become like quicksilver!! Sitting on charcoals, the memorial of fakirs!

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Re: transparency in all

Post by admin » 08 Dec 2007

sparkal wrote:It may be because THIS faction, BK.info, also has an inner circle or inner forum.
There was a private forum for ex-BKs only. It ran from 29 June 2006 but was closed on 14 January 2007 to avoid just such allegations.

It held a total of 68 posts, which have been archived privately but it is no longer active.

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Post by eromain » 09 Dec 2007

I had an idea that it would be fun to have somewhere on the site where we could upload photos.

They would powerfully contribute to the fact that there really is life after the BKs and it can be much better than life as a BK.

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bro neo
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Post by bro neo » 10 Dec 2007

:!: Excellent Idea.

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Post by sparkal » 10 Dec 2007

I take back that accusation of an inner forum, sorry to all concerned.

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Post by arjun » 11 Dec 2007

sparkal wrote:I take back that accusation of an inner forum, sorry to all concerned.
That is called true sportsmanship :D.

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Post by bansy » 11 Dec 2007

sparkal wrote:I take back that accusation of an inner forum, sorry to all concerned.
Lately been a bit busy so only looking at one or two posts.

I don't know what all this is about, but as nothing was given (at least to me) then nothing was taken. Don't worry about it all sparkal, your posts are all done with good intention.

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alladin
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forum is the unknown taboo

Post by alladin » 12 Dec 2007

Hi, I was going to post in the BK forum in the topic about "What do you have to hide?", but it seems reserved for BKs only. So, I will drop a line in here.

I am realizing how the BK world, including free spirited BKs, is full of prejudices about the Forum. I don't think it's just due to the slander and the negative opinions expressed by SS. I think it is something of the psychological nature of victims wanting to protect those who, you know, have abused them for years. Some distorted sense of loyalty that overall makes BKs think that it is not right to write on the web, because "we are a family" (mafia again, OMG!), and we should wash the dirty linen inside away from an audience and eyes. In fact, they are right, because these clothes of the BKWSU are so dirty!!! One has to be ashamed of showing them!!

But apart from joking, I am concerned about people considering the Forum a taboo. They form opinions without even reading - let alone writing!! - and think that it is all about a bunch of mad people that were stupid enough to take sorrow, give up careers and donate all their wealth to the sect, wanting to express anger and desire to destroy the BKWSO. is not judging without knowing called a "prejudice"? Is it a Bhakti sanskar to feel prudish or fearful about something that we were told is so "evil", therefore we shouldn't even go near it?

I think that hardly anyone of the posters have shallow or destructive motives such as the ones we are accused of! It is bad imagination based on assumptions, a method that even in Kaliyugi courts cannot be applied!

Personally, I always appreciated the value of a free space to share - sick of gossiping or being labeled as critical or a complainer - and of the possibility/duty to protect newcomers from typical mistakes we also committed during the "Honeymoon Period". I think this is a form of love, not hatred. If I am a mother and my husband abuses my children, is it right or wrong to report this to the authorities? Should we be accomplices in crimes or good citizens and prevent more crime from happening? But some ideas have penetrated so deeply the consciousness of BKs that they think strange things, such as that "after all it's all our fault, nobody forced us, we have to take responsibility, not feel resentment and that ... somehow the Yagya is untouchable, its high ranks should not be object of satire", and so on.

A very weird mechanism the mind has!! Who is the Kumbakarna that needs to be awakened? I would rather be a bit sour and awake, rather than being victim of voodoo!

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