Where do we go from here?

Mainly DEDICATED to Ex-BKs.
A neutral forum for congenial discussions and reservations related to the Godly Knowledge between ALL parties.
User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: forum is the unknown taboo

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Dec 2007

alladin wrote:I am realizing how the BK world, including free spirited BKs, is full of prejudices about the Forum. I don't think it's just due to the slander and the negative opinions expressed by SS. I think it is something of the psychological nature of victims wanting to protect those who, you know, have abused them for years.
Weird ... its like two parallel worlds are developing. In my book, the BKWSU world is the one that is diverging from both reality and truth.

Is it not typical of families in which there is abuse, that the abuse is "our little secret", that the abused are encouraged by the co-dependents not to "bring shame on the family" by talking about it? Its the same in many orthodox communities. There was a case in the city I lived, where the house of an orthodox Jewish family was literally stoned by other Jews because a girl child finally spoke out publicly about being sexually abused by the local Rabbi. The girl was attacked and the Rabbi defended. Is it not the same principle here?

I mean, objectively (from a theological point of view), it is impossible to ignore what we have and continue to dig out here. Sociologically, the meeting between BK, so-called ex-BKs and PBKs ... and the exposure of the effects and the support of Friends and Family ... is something unique and admirable, is it not? I think that the institutional denial within the BKWSU leadership surrounding the PBKs cannot be excluded from the equation. We, and the forum, are eternally "contaminated" by the devilish PBK pariah caste (no offense intended guys!).

But at the same time ... I tell you what ... I bet the both leadership and the enlightened BKs will be responding and sampling what we say and do and the organization will be changed by us. So, it's more about balance of power. The leaders and their faithful followers.
  • Where do we go from here?
I think the thing forum members need to do is take strength and inspiration from what they find on the forum and reach out ... not to turn within the forum but to reach out, write out, speak and communicate to others; non-BKs, contact souls, VIPs, the type of individuals the BK leadership want to be seen along side, flattering themselves, and equal too.

The strange thing is that many of them are far more enlightened than the BKWSU and they would find what is going on ridiculous and condemnable.
  • Do we all need to go and get letters from psychiatrists to prove our sanity? That would be a bit of a laugh ...
"To whom it concerns ... this person does not believe that they are an angel of light and that dinosaurs existed 2,500 years ago, they do not believe that the holy cow Janki Kripalani is 'the most stable mind in the world' nor that she is going to become an Emperor of the world".

Eromain censured me for the public outrage I cause regarding my calling them "low caste", but I feel this is just another example of it. This is so petit bourgeoisie ... such a caste ridden sentiment ... very "Hindi" in a way. Ignore any abuse and corruption ... just "Don't bring defamation on 'The Family'".

We are the ugly, unwanted, handicapped relatives they don't want turning up in public to embarrass them that their spiritual genes are faulty! This is why the "mentally ill" issue keeps arising ... it is one of the great disgraces/stigmas/embarrassments within Hindi communities and so often used by the BKWSU.

So, just keep turning up in public folks, promote discussion, take care of the victims and fight back for their rights.

User avatar
sparkal
BK supporter
Posts: 462
Joined: 04 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK supporter
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: BK supporter
Location: Shivalaya

polite v humility

Post by sparkal » 12 Dec 2007

I am tempted to start a thread called something like humility v politeness but we will let it come up in many threads and here it is again rearing its ugly, um, rear. There is no humility in suppressing and hiding things.

Humility is honesty and transparency. Even if we get it wrong (at least it is not "right" :roll:)
as long as it is done with the ... correct awareness and from the ... correct place of the heart, it should be worth more than a polite or conditioned output/action.

Just my opinion, though. I am of course mad, so, nothing to lose by expressing my SELF then is there? If from the ... correct place.

User avatar
alladin
Friends and family of
Posts: 718
Joined: 27 Feb 2007

protecting our younger siblings

Post by alladin » 14 Dec 2007

A fashionable topic, on which books have been wrtitten and seminars are hold, is "Do not take sorrow". A swa raj, master of the self soul, will be able to switch off from any nasty situation or person and become insensitive. Insults and the rest will wash over him as water on a nicely waxed raincoat. In order to achieve this degree of detachment, brother of the "being beyond praise and defamation", I suppose we all have to work on our emotions - and possibly not just suppress them! - on our self- esteem, healing wounds etc ... for quite some time.

One famous story in Buddhism, is the one about the Bodhisattva that was being constantly disturbed by a devil but did not react, thereby setting the exmple of how, "If I don't accept the rubbish you are throwing on me, the same rubbish will remain with you". I wrote months ago about the excessive sense of responsibility; the risk of ending up feeling as if we are always and the only ones to be blamed, no matter how bad people treat us, how they break "Godly rules" with wrong doings and acting as "salty water" or "scorpions", as Baba describes mean people.

Well, now it seems that whoever gives sorrow, never mind the vikarma he creates, can get away with it because, after all, we had the choice not to "take it". So, nothing's wrong with a cheat. It's you who are stupid and have been fooled. Cannot prosecute a cheat or a torturer! Very nice philosophy. I, personally, would be very careful. I try my best not to hurt others and, if they hurt me, I acknowledge that and if I cannot say or do much. In order not to create a "case", I will move away to protect myself.

Hopefully some discrimination power and honesty will help me discern when I was partially to blame, and when someone hurt me deliberately/for free. So, here we go. It is after all all our fault if we, new born zelous children of God, obeyed the Yagya's instructions of neglecting education, careers, families, pensions, health and fitness. We shouldn't have listened.

Do we on the Forum have the right to at least warn new BK members, so that they can avoid making our same mistakes? Could this action be considered as sukarma, a protective loveful act? Doesn't Baba instruct us to "caution each other"? Or are Forum poster's motives always and only madness and resentment?

Strange enough, the same BKs that fell into what I think is another mental trap laid out for vulnerable souls, easily believe any lie passed around about the Forum and immediately feel offended and reveal an oversensitive nature when reading some posts or satyrs on the Forum.

So, is it once again a matter of double standards?

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: protecting our younger siblings

Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Dec 2007

alladin wrote:So, is it once again a matter of double standards?
I think it is a very Hindi thing. Generally speaking, and I know this reads as racist, I think they approach religion (this religion) differently from and not so deeply - or at least intellectually - as Westerners. Perhaps it is just more about devotion, appearances and community ... and the whole idea of Truth is much more malleable for those coming from a pluralistic background? I have not thought this through yet ... the idea needs exploring in some other topic.

But protecting younger siblings ... for sure. Let's try and save them from the ghosts and spiritual disease that were and are rife within the BKWSU.

User avatar
alladin
Friends and family of
Posts: 718
Joined: 27 Feb 2007

out of many, one people

Post by alladin » 14 Dec 2007

When you talk about Indians, I think of that spontaneous love for God and adhesion to a group - and gurus - that claim to be operating under Heaven's mandate. That genuine sense of belonging has a value. The problem is that people get used, abused and exploited. And that we are told that we can safely let go of anything, and anybody, else and drift, surrendering the boat to the BKWSO in a current that, who knows where it's going ... to later realize that it is not really at all a spiritual family where everybody is equal.

What the Forum is for me (long life to the Forum!) is a space for people to freely show their opinions. Within limits of decency, there's space for everyone to express their thoughts. Especially older BKs may have a lot of experiences to share, not necessarily negative, and they could also teach others how to survive and sustain themselves and progress spiritually, when you see the many inconsistencies and wrong doings. So, please folks, open new topics, or find some you like to post in, and contribute.

If you think some Forum members are rabid, participate and shift the balance, help others with your insights! A current lie spread around by the chiefs of BKWSO, is that deity Jayanti, stretched her hand to us and wanted dialogue, during the legal action time, and we are so tough and horrible, that we refused. Before believing in such lies, people should invest some time in reading the Forum. They will then realize that the philosophy and behaviour of it's members and admin, is all about equality.

This word, and concept, in the BKWSO, does not exist. Maybe that's why they have a big problem in understanding what's all about and how to deal with us!

User avatar
sparkal
BK supporter
Posts: 462
Joined: 04 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK supporter
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: BK supporter
Location: Shivalaya

Re: out of many, one people

Post by sparkal » 14 Dec 2007

alladin wrote:... to later realize that it is not really at all a spiritual family where everybody is equal.
Do we have any evidence that there SHOULD be equality? One would think it to be the natural spiritual way to operate, but ...

Of course, the "numberwise" thing may be a league of souls based on how giving and compasionate, how honest the heart is, how willing and able to create a world where everyone is seen OK, how every soul who enters the drama is given every chance to have an absolutely wonderful life experience with family and friends. A genuine one world family feeling.

The future leaders (?) will SERVE society and not bleed it. All will have fullness in life. I won't even mention wealth, the word will not exist, the questions will not arise. Now, how do we get to there from here? Lets get this thing going God or explain to us why not?

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by andrey » 22 Dec 2007

This Guru thing is still evident. I would be wary about letting any of these souls in Brother. I have doubts about these Gurus and their motives. Sure, they can knock out spiritual love and tell us things, but we need to consider the cost.
It is only a recent invention that the true guru is the point of light. Whilst Dadis may preach this for them Brahma Baba used to be an ordinary guru in human form. Only later they have invented the point of light without a body and have named it the Supreme Soul. Because they don't have any other corporeal guru but also don't want to adopt any other than Brahma baba they have instilled this "Guru paranoia" whilst a guru in corporeal form is definitely needed (true one).

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Dec 2007

andrey wrote:Only later they have invented the point of light without a body and have named it the Supreme Soul.
When ... and what evidence do you have to state that? That is an interesting point.

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by andrey » 23 Dec 2007

There is no reason to believe it has been before 69. There is no need for evidence for the fact that they now teach that only a point of light is true guru, because we all know this to be so.

The evidence that they have believed Brahma Baba as corporeal guru, is that against the will of the supreme Father they display his photo, means they remember the body and against the description of the Murli they imagine the Supreme Soul in the subtle brahma, which is the same body just of light. It is like double agenda.

"It is not that ShivBaba will go away and we will continue to sit here only and that then we will have to adopt another Guru (preceptor), never." [Mu. 14. 11. 74, Pg-2]

User avatar
sparkal
BK supporter
Posts: 462
Joined: 04 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK supporter
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: BK supporter
Location: Shivalaya

Post by sparkal » 24 Dec 2007

Which ever faction's knowledge we care to look at, none of them talk about a future with "gurus". So where does all this promoting of gurus come in? All channeling God Shiva. We are only ever trying to justify a bad habit if we are talking in support of "gurus". My opinion. God as my guru can sound like we are using God to boost our own standing/status/ego.

Any true Guru will liberate souls. I don't hear liberated talk from those with the gurus. I am not denouncing teachers of a sort. There is a place for everything, except running old worn out ways, such as guru dom. The method for teaching in the Brahmin family is to TEACH BY EXAMPLE. Becoming a guru is therefore not a good example to others surely.

What if Shiva starts talking through a number of souls? Do they all have the right to take over as leader? What will have changed? I see little difference in pbk thinking compared to BKs. So it is not the ultimate answer for me personally.

Would the real God please stand up!

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by andrey » 25 Dec 2007

Dear brother,
Even in the Murlis it is said that “Who is Ravan – definitely these human gurus”, so please get me right. We don’t need to have any personal guru in particular. True guru for all is one who liberates everyone and all the rest are false.

The best example we have had who has thought us through example is Brahma Baba. Now there is no such, or better example, but the role of the supreme Father is also said to be Karankaravanhar – the one who does, and also makes others do. Through Brahma Baba only the role of Karanhar –the one who does has been played, because when we look an example still we have to take the initiative to follow, still liberation is for all, who follow or not.

There is no reason to believe Shiva will start talking through number of souls. He says, "I’m not omnipresent". He is present in one.

If you are asking for the God to stand up for you to see him you should expect that many will stand up to claim themselves as the real God, still we are to discriminate though the knowledge that he gives. It is also said that the one who calls himself God is the devil.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 25 Dec 2007

andrey wrote:There is no reason to believe it has been before 69. There is no need for evidence for the fact that they now teach that only a point of light is true guru, because we all know this to be so.
Just to keep on topic, andrey, "where do we go from here?". I hope that we can all keep working towards historical accuracy and that BKs and the BKWSU offer to share with us some of their resources.

Andrey, in this vein, I was looking for evidence for how and when the bindi god Shiva concept started. There is evidence to suggest the "Bindi" Shiva entered the equation before 1969 as per the early pictures.
sparkal wrote:God as my guru can sound like we are using God to boost our own standing/status/ego.
I agree. I hold this mirror up to the entire BK/PBK family. I see no reason why Shiva is not just a spook or some ordinary, albeit higher than us, "channelled" entity.
  • Why does "my" God always HAVE to be The God of all gods?
It would be nice to have Shiva interview properly and to document all the private conversations with the Seniors.

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by andrey » 25 Dec 2007

Dear brother ex-l,

It is different. The conception of the point of light God has definetely existed before '69 because of the knowledge from the Murlis that has come before '69 where it is said that God is just a point of light.

In the Murlis it is also said that we cannot relate to ShivBaba without Brahma. Before '69 the practice of considering the point of light Supreme Father in the body of Brahma baba had been practiced. I suppose at that time no one considered any other separate medium than Brahma Baba.

After his demise the new invention that does not receive the support from the Murlis is that one can relate to the Supreme Father directly without the need of any corporeal medium and that he can also work through many - Dadis etc.

You can also see that the point of light has been put above the head of Brahma Baba, but then above the heads of the Dadis too.
Why does "my" God always HAVE to be The God of all gods?
Because there is one God of all gods and everyone tries to find him. When we do the world can become one of order. Till then even i can become God.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11570
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: Where do we go from here?

Post by arjun » 27 Feb 2008

Om Shanti.
As we continue our journey with BKInfo forum after a brief lull, I would like to thank Proy and the Admin. of cultexit forum for their support to the members of this forum in exchanging views on that forum until this forum reopened.

There are some important posts on that forum that could be copied on some of the threads of this forum.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
proy
ex-BK
Posts: 489
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Started as BK became ex-BK here

Re: Where do we go from here?

Post by proy » 27 Feb 2008

arjun wrote:There are some important posts on that forum that could be copied on some of the threads of this forum.
The posts will remain there for you to copy and paste, nothing has been deleted. It has just been moved now this forum is open so that cultexit front page can get back to business as usual.

Hi everybody here, and congratulations on the new forum.
proy

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests