Where do we go from here?

Mainly DEDICATED to Ex-BKs.
A neutral forum for congenial discussions and reservations related to the Godly Knowledge between ALL parties.
User avatar
bro neo
ex-BK
Posts: 368
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: Asia

Post by bro neo » 26 Nov 2007

This forum has been, and is still doing, exactly what the SS fear and are trying to prevent the most; revelation of what is going on behind the curtains of the BKWSU, all that they don't want their brain washed members and the rest of the world to know. Some of them are so deep in denial acceptance of the truth would mean a pain worst then death for them as well.

The truth of deception is being educated to the ignorant and innocent and this is the divine message the world is ready to understand.

Humanity is ready to move on and here is where philosophy becomes true practical enlightened awareness and freedom. The great people who have organize and contributed to this cause have a place at the pinnacle of human awareness that deserves the highest nobility and dignity.

Where do we go from here?

Top of the world baby, top of the world.

User avatar
abrahma kumar
Friends and family of
Posts: 1133
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Contact:

Top of the World

Post by abrahma kumar » 26 Nov 2007


User avatar
sparkal
BK supporter
Posts: 462
Joined: 04 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK supporter
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: BK supporter
Location: Shivalaya

love outcome

Post by sparkal » 26 Nov 2007

The legal issue will have stirred a reaction of late, particularly within those who were in the direct firing line. Perhaps such souls would show more compassion to BKWSU if there was more compassion from the organisation. I feel that the onus IS on those in/with the fort and resources. It is the responsibility of the individual otherwise.

The sometimes undesirable expressions may be rebelling against the suppressing which can go on as a result of BK teachings. It may serve a purpose in a "punky" sort of way. But the desired outcome is surely love. Universal love for all souls.

The mention of mental health being on the BK agenda is not before time and hopefully BKWSU is strong and wise enough to look at and be constructive and practical in accepting that its teachings DO have an effect on people one way or other, sometimes in a way that neither they or the individual have complete control over and so practical help may be needed at times.

Love may be the help in question, simple love. That is why we are here. Perhaps the question that this site is asking BKWSU members/Seniors is, why are YOU there?

The real problem is that there is never any answers to such questions to make the distaste go away. This can lead to the awareness that "they" are all the same. One or two bullies can give the rest a bad name therefore. You can hit me over the head if you like, it might fix it.

Peace

User avatar
bro neo
ex-BK
Posts: 368
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: Asia

Post by bro neo » 26 Nov 2007

Heaven, peace, love, joy, freedom and prosperity in the world will only happen in our world when enough people unite and strive for the benifit of humanity in the name of truth, and for the end of lies and deception for all.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11588
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Post by arjun » 26 Nov 2007

Sister Tete wrote:I also think ex-l grows on one, a little like algae but eventually you see his truth as beauty. If you look closely, I think he holds BK beliefs dearly, he will often protect its proper context (pure form), he is just an ardent one, that sees the need for transparency, accuracy and in many ways an orthodox theologian on the subject matter. Most religious reformers throughout history have been this way, not to break the religious belief but to find some way to make peace with it or find a new way to express it.
Dear sister,

Hello. I should thank Proy once again for having inspired you and a few others (who had become inactive since a long time) to participate in the discussions. Where is Sister Di?

I agree with your above view, which possibly answers Eugene's post to a considerable extent.

But if the 'truth serum' of ex-l :lol:, as you have described it, is dipped in honey :P before being served to the Chief Executives of BKWS Corporation :D, it would give the management gurus of the Corporation a run for their money :oops:.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
button slammer
PBK
Posts: 226
Joined: 17 Jul 2006

Vishnu Rising

Post by button slammer » 26 Nov 2007

Dear all

The forum represents a new star on the horizon, it is Vishnu Rising. Two images have been revealed. The third image representing UNITY is now on the ascendant.

'It is written in the stars above, by Gods decree' - Depeche Mode :D.

vivaespana
ex-BK
Posts: 42
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: Spain

Post by vivaespana » 26 Nov 2007

Hola senores y senoras

I believe that many of us have given so much love to the leaders, members and the organisation for years and years. But deep down, I don't feel I have received much true love. Spiritual love is about compassion. I felt that I was only loved when they wanted something from me. Once I did not give them what they wanted, then that was it. I felt completely ignored and unwanted. Is this true spiritual love?

Maybe the way forward for the BKs would be to start by contacting all those who have already left the organisation. Maybe a little bit of true compassion and love could be given to all those who have decided to leave in the form of an apology where necessary.

Some of us wrote letters, tried to communicate either before or after exiting, or during our time with the organisation, but no replies were received. Maybe they should start by responding to those letters or comments.

I know we are all human beings and we all make mistakes. However, despite making the BKs aware for years and years of some of the issues and concerns, I see it as almost impossible for this to be corrected now. The organisation has expanded so much that I find it very hard for the leaders and SS to have complete control over what goes on in every part of the world.

Whilst many good things were instilled in our subconscious, many other things have done quite a lot of damage to our mental & physical well being as well as in our relationships, careers etc. For this to now be corrected can take years of professional help. Even then, many deep rooted issues I feel will never go away.

The way forward for this forum would be to allow people to continue to voice their opinions, issues etc but maybe in a constructive and balanced way. Although I agree with some that this can be quite difficult at times. I also believe that maybe it is necessary for some of us to express some of the negative experiences, as this may be the only way that the organisation and its leaders can try and make the necessary changes. If all we write is positive and based on love, then maybe the message won't get across.

Anyway, I don't think there is a real answer as I feel that things are way out of control worldwide in the centres and that it would be a very challenging task to change the minds of so many after everyone has been so deeply conditioned to behave in a certain way all these years.

So many leaders, SS and members take the law into their own hands and do what they want for that to change that is "not like going to your aunty's home".

We can only but wait and hope!

Ciao, Viva

User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by bansy » 27 Nov 2007

Welcome back Tete.

Thanks for your indifferences of opinions. Hope all bodes well and time has its healing. I feel the forum is opening up so you should post what you feel if it can also help possibly another person elsewhere. And let off a bit of steam. :P

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Nov 2007

vivaespana wrote:Maybe the way forward for the BKs would be to start by contacting all those who have already left the organisation. Maybe a little bit of true compassion and love could be given to all those who have decided to leave in the form of an apology where necessary.
Forget even love and compassion ... it would be basic, common, business sense to consult those that bailed out. And not that sticky, cloying, "saving them for Baba" mode. Forget the myths about Maya and vices, they ought to start asking questions about ethics and enlightenment.

Harking back to eromain's post, I am highly conscious of the use of language as a means of control by an "elite". I have tasted with regards to class structures, between nationalities ,and of course, within the BK caste system. Keeping one's subjects tongue tied, unable to express their feelings, defining the official language of a religions; "what and how" it is acceptable to speak ... these are all traditional means of control and suppression.

Its funny, but I did not/don't actually feel that love you are talking about. I don't feel I owe them anything. Actually, I feel they owe me my little bit, and a whole load of other people a who load, back. They lied to us. They bullshitted their way into our bank accounts and had us working for nothing ... supporting their denial and their love affair for Lekhraj Kirpalani.

Besides, we all know which SS can fume with a white temper but still keep a cool, accurate" language ... so what? What has been achieved? My overarching impression was/is that it has one been, up until now, a load of hot air (mostly fairly infantile) and a big, expensive loss of opportunity. I mean, the idea of a spiritual university is great ... 70 years and all those millions ... why don't we have one?

How can as much discussion and revelation go on, as has gone from here, and they just sit back in their palaces and ignore it. Cue joke ...
  • The Queen say, "Oh look, the peasants are revolting."
    ... the Chancellor answers, "Yes, aren't they ma'am!"
They need to get real about what they are, ditch the pretense, or turf out all the ****. Personally, I think I am about 10% of where I want to get to with the BKWSU. If they cannot cope with the truth, and build something respectable, I will personally dig it all out, and put it on public display, for them in my spare time. I think that I have hardly even started ...

What do I want from this forum? That it continues to act as a hospital for their victims that serves antidotes to all their PR spin.

I have no need of a "Royal Warrant" from one of the 108 above the door to let folks know what we do here is good.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Nov 2007

BTW ... I, personally, went out of my way to invite; a) "high ranking" respected BKs to join this forum and recommended that they moderate the BK forum and
b) invite every BK center contact I could find to join the forum and contribute.

"Their" response? To ban me from contacting any BK center that uses the "official" mail service.
primal.logic wrote:I received an email from Jayanti informing me that "duty of care and departure policy" are now on the agenda.
Don't let them half-ass their way out of it. Put it on your list that a few of them actually get jobs to support themselves and positions are not doled out JUST because the individual has a private income.

User avatar
sparkal
BK supporter
Posts: 462
Joined: 04 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK supporter
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: BK supporter
Location: Shivalaya

professional lover

Post by sparkal » 27 Nov 2007

I offered the BKWSU love but they informed me that I have to be a professional love giver to do that.

They then offered me a course at Oxford costing £2000 and a video called "The Oxford Chainsaw Massacre" or something for another £50.

I hear love has gone down on the Stock Exchange also.

User avatar
eromain
ex-BK
Posts: 85
Joined: 09 May 2006

love?? what's love got to do with it!!

Post by eromain » 27 Nov 2007

Here come all those whacks around the head I am due.

:-)

User avatar
alladin
Friends and family of
Posts: 718
Joined: 27 Feb 2007

Titanic changing course one inch

Post by alladin » 27 Nov 2007

I think that what Eugene outlined about compassion and love, can be an interesting spiritual exercise for me. Spirituality in action, progress, all good stuff for the self and part of "anger management". Not in order to appeal to anyone though, to borrow Joel's expression. After all we are here to recover, heal, become clear with ourselves first, so, internally we have to go beyond all the "tribulations" and crookedness the BKs instilled in us, and cease fire within.

They have, however, interests and positions to protect, bigger than any brainwashed meaning well Raja Yoga student or even teacher can imagine. So, talking about a war going on, is not paranoia. And they have not laid down their weapons. Like someone wrote, deception, manipulation etc ... go on constantly in that organization. They try to correct the route, and justify themselves a bit, but some action or comment in class, like DJ saying that "those who slander are instrumental for awakening sleeping teachers", doesn't make a rotten apple much better.

I took, and take, benefit from the teachings and know there are good souls in the BK group, so when Eugene talks about a vision, positivity, resonates, I don't reject the beneficial aspects. I was able to protect myself, or God protected me, otherwise, I would have been swallowed or become a zombie, if I had let them do it.

Howiemac, I am with you totally and your post, especially when you say:
howiemac wrote:would not like to see the freedom of speech that this forum offers being limited by any code of political correctness, or a requirement for politeness
Bye, everyone, and thanks. Love and see you soon

User avatar
enlightened
ex-BK
Posts: 61
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by enlightened » 27 Nov 2007

Many thanks to all those who are responsible for setting up this website and for seeing through the legal action process.

Maybe the way forward would be for the BK Management or Brother Nirwair to get Ved Prakash (known as Pehelwan Bhai) to return the thousands of dollars of mine he ran away with to Delhi. Maybe the way forward would be for Management to return the thousands of dollars I have donated to the organisation for years and years.

As far as this website is concerned, it's important for people to continue to voice their opinions and concerns as I don't think the message has really got across to the BK management as yet.

Many more ex-BKs may still be suffering or future ex-BKs may also suffer the consequences of their involvement or conditioning by the organisation. Some of the contents of this website may save the lives of many as it has done mine.

The truth cannot be hidden. Honesty is the best policy for the way forward. After all, one of the things the organisation teaches is to live our lives with honesty. So surely, it cannot be a wrong thing or a sin to speak honestly about our real experiences of being involved with the organisation! Surely, honesty and truth should be welcomed!!!!!!!!!!

Regards
Iknewit

User avatar
eromain
ex-BK
Posts: 85
Joined: 09 May 2006

love?? what's love got to do with it!!

Post by eromain » 27 Nov 2007

I have always been cognizant of the fact that I have never been a BK and fully understand that I will never understand the experience as you all have .
Dear Tete,

One of the unique and priceless features of this forum is that it is the only place where the relatives of BKs can come and have their say. This is a group of people who have been at best patronized and marginalised and, at worst, literally demonised. I, for one, would not presume to suggest to any of them that they limit or shape this way or that whatever criticisms they might have. We cannot presume to understand your experiences anymore than you ours.

It is great to have you posting and I hope to hear more and more of your story on this forum.

Dear Everyone,

And indeed I would like to stress to everyone from every little definition -ex-BK, PBK, BK non-BK etc etc in no way do I want to dissuade anyone from making whatever comment they wish to make. Everyone must have their voice here and everyone's voice is priceless. And please do not edit what you think or say to make it more "positive". That would be an incredibly easy trap to fall into after the years of thought and behaviour control of our BK years. ex-l is absolutely right to be reminding us of the use of language as a means of control and we have all been very well groomed in that regard.

My comments about positivity are not supposed to "sanitise" the site, i.e. to remove so called negative content. The idea that we should all always be positive is awful and, frankly, just makes me just want to swear. My original point was supposed to be that healthy discussion ultimately contains both ebb and flow, and unremitting blackness is itself probably a distortion. ex-l to his very great credit had been asserting that the challenges I was making to him in private I should make in public and it is only for this reason that I took the example of one of his posts. In my opinion ex-l is the greatest gift the drama could give to the BKs and it is ultimately their failing not his that they cant hear him. But ex-l is always going to be the best version of himself there is, and neither this site nor our once called brothers and sisters back in the old kingdom will be served by 20 carbon copies of him, anymore than the original one.

Personally, i think that this site exists primarily for those who are big enough to openly join it. I am not overly worried about those who won't even sit down and talk with us. I want to show them respect and fairness, but I don't want to court them. But I do think that they shouldn't have to put up with insults to their religion. And that is the case no matter how badly the sisterhood of that religion sometimes behave. We must be careful to criticize them without insulting it.

And, for us, I would suggest that adopting a sometimes neutral posture or positive posture in thinking about the institution will in certain conversations here free us to look at things from other angles and to uncover truths we perhaps haven't yet noticed. I do not wish to absolve the institution of anything, I just don't want to use it as a convenient villain on whom to blame all the woes of my past. There may be more to it than that. Perhaps I can take some responsibility for things which I reflexively lay at their door. Chewing through the way somebody took advantage of me is part of recovering from abuse, but it is not the whole process. And, yes, being a BK turned out to be highly abusive, but it was a great deal more than that and I would like to take account of all of it.

When I suggest that we take a bit more care over the way we refer to the BKs it is not so that we explore positivity as a replacement of negativity. We must be as plainly honest as we have always striven to be. And we all must do the work as it presents itself to us and unfortunately as a ex-BK a lot of that work is unpleasant. An intrinsic part of being a ex-BK is coming to terms with a great deal of dysfunctional and destructive baggage. The BKs have not (yet) been through what we have and they cant possibly appreciate our so called negativity - for them the dream is not over. And for some it will never be. But most BKs leave and at the very least we provide now a catalogue of warnings about what they face. It may not be pretty but it is is very helpful.

The suggestion by me of myself and ex-l sending them love would be an extremely inappropriate suggestion for some people on this forum and I hope I did not offend anyone. It came from the paradox that we and many others here have come up with insights that the BKs could really benefit from, but unfortunately we are a source they feel unable from which to learn. This was particularly difficult for example with the child protection where I knew that I had information and skills which they needed but my status as a dumbfuck (Hindi translation - Shudra) meant that they would not accept it. And because of this children got abused who otherwise would not have been.

But there is more to it than that - it is not just their prejudices in the way. Research across many different fields shows that good advice is not followed if the recipient's self-esteem and sense of moral identity is damaged or under threat by the way the advice is given. In simple terms if you want to teach anyone anything you cannot simply point out what they are doing wrong. Not only do you have to point them towards some replacement behaviour but you also have to give them a little injection of moral encouragement.

Criticising people in a way that damages their esteem almost always results in them behaving worse not better. This has been established in many different areas of education, in psychology, in management, in the penal system, in sports and military training. As a professional teacher I wince at some of the content here not because it is factually wrong - it almost always is not, nor because i think it undeserved - it seems to be well deserved from where I am standing. I wince because it is the worst way to make things better.

We have exposed many faults about them. Serious and horrible faults - suicides, child abuse, pbk beatings, money grabbing, misrepresentation to the point of possible fraud etc etc. All of this is intrinsically humiliating and therefore it is potentially very morally damaging. If you have ever wondered if the BKs are going downhill morally and ideologically, you are not the only one! Trust me, they are asking that as much as us! But unfortunately we may be helping them on their way. We did not do what we have done in order to humiliate them, but it was a by-product.

I, personally, wasted years trying to avoid it, but ultimately I had a choice of trying to get some child protection in place and accept the humiliation they would suffer or do nothing. I made my choice and I haven't regretted it for a minute. But I would rather have not humiliated them. And that is what I mean by owing them love. There is a hole in their self esteem that I helped to create. Individually, collectively and institutionally. And self-esteem is not some trivial indulgent thing, it is central to moral development.

Without self-esteem we cannot face our faults but instead hide in self-recrimmination, blame and/or denial and apparent helplessness. And these people that are being shown to be wrong, are people who quite simply are not allowed to be wrong. Psychologically and metaphysically. They are trapped in guilt at their apparent fallabillity whilst also astounded that they could be so limited. They carry extremely heavy psychological responsibilities -full of contradictions and what normal people would consider impossibilities. Beneath lots of strength there is bound to be some fragility.

To be clear, when I say "owe" I do not mean a debt, but I do mean a responsibility: I mean the last component in the lesson -the moral encouragement that enables them to take the lesson. It is the hug a child receives just after they have been corrected, but before they have tried again and got it right.

I was right and they were wrong -that is the fundamental truth of the matter, and it is a damn awkward one for both sides. But awkward or not it is still beholden on the person who knows to educate the other. And unless I want to share in the responsibility for them doing it even worse I have to minimise the moral damage. I am suggesting that we be more cognizant of the damage to their self-esteem that our necessary work causes, and that we should without changing the substance of our work attempt to minimise that damage. And that requires respect, compassion, interpersonal cleanliness indeed many of the concepts of dharna and karma that they taught me.

Being right is a responsiblity, it is an opportunity to teach but it is also a responsibility to teach well. Yes they have their responsibilities as well. Gigantic stuff but that's their stuff -not really my problem, except just another set of reasons why I should try to make it as easy as possible for them.

And that in a long winded way is why I started talking about love. An attitude of good intention to all - including them, but expecially to them so that they realise it is not them we are "against", it some of their mistaken actions. We need to see them as essentially good people, guilty of some bad actions. That is, if we would like to help. And one cannot attack wrong action without having to do repair work upon the person who made those mistakes. That is love.

I am sure that nobody here wants to interfere with anyone innocently practicing their religion. So maybe through our self expression here we can inform the members of that religion that some of their practices are very far from innocent and they seriously infringe upon the rights of others. So a beneficial and inevitable offshoot of what we do here is the potential to educate. But that involves teaching. And teaching involves love. Whether we like it or not we are educating them, so we might as well do it well. Which is what I mean when I said "We owe them love". :-)

And if for many of us right now this crazy talk of love is not relevant, and if for you ex-l it is not relevant that of course is fine by me and i trust you wont get distracted by my "stuff" for one second. Maybe a string gets added here, but certainly i don't want to restrain what is already happening.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests