Does the soul exists ? What is it REALLY ?

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Does the soul exists ? What is it REALLY ?

Post by bansy » 10 Jan 2008

OK, back to basics. The SOUL.
  • Who told you so ? Was it from someone else who had just done lesson 1 (because Murli says you can be a teacher after 1 day, so you tell everyone he or she is a soul).
    Why do you believe it ?
    What made you beleive it ?
    Is it true ?
    Has it now been drummed into you and hard instilled into you ?
    Why was it not said that a invisible dot exists between the forehead ? ("I am an invisible dot" does not go down well)
    Is the soul just another symbol ?
    You mean you did not know you were a soul until you came to the BKWSU, and after 2 minutes repeatedly being told and drilled "Om Shanti", now you are totally overwhelmed and convinced to your dying day that you and everyone else is a soul ?
This is/was from lesson 1. Remember that ?

Please no MIS stuff here, Mind Intellect Sanskars explanations here otherwise it defeats the indoctrination of lesson 1.

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Post by john morgan » 10 Jan 2008

Yes Bansy,

The soul really exists and it is made of light too! Thoughts are also made of light.

Everything becomes clear in time ... I hope :lol:.

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Post by sparkal » 10 Jan 2008

It is said that the first lesson is also the last lesson. Are you suggesting that we are bodies? Or is there a concept we have yet to meet?

Anything we say that is, can be debated, as, what we are is no doubt very subtle, as is the body though in reality. 'We are consciousness'. Just another way of saying the same thing is it not? So are we dealing with words and peoples reaction to them? Which is fair enough. Some may not want to be reminded of the past.

I think, whatever words we use, the experience will always be the defining aspect because experience is more powerful than knowledge. Soul means self. One. I. Changing words can cause chaos, though could also give fresh input. We may just do the same with the new word to mean the same thing, unless that new word took the meaning deeper again.

There is no point searching for the intellect :shock: then applying it in Yoga. It will not work. It is natural, experience based. Once it clicks, there is no going back. The experience can be given, taught, brought about without the teachings of M-I and S.

So, the first lesson is to experience the true self. It is also the last lesson. We do it from a body conscious objective. You can question the term body conscious, but it is dense and negative which ever way I personally look at it, and experience it.

I only ever feel peaceful and content when I detach from this chaotic drama, or , from self, false self. What would you like to call that none false self? We could change the name every week if you like to keep it fresh, but the experience may not change. There is only one "I", the last I checked anyway, and both of us agreed :lol: .

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Does the soul exists?What is REALLY?

Post by peterbindi » 10 Jan 2008

Dear Bansy.

For me the soul is wonderful, when you onces experience ... its really really wonderful. An never ending source of energy, and this is for every soul the same.

Yes, yes, yes, the soul is real.

I am glad that i understands this. :lol:

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Post by bansy » 10 Jan 2008

Thanks for the replies.

OK. lesson 2. Who imparted that knowledge of the soul to you ?

Or are there no other lessons needed ? Scrap lesson 2 ? Do you recall lesson 2 ?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Jan 2008

john morgan wrote:The soul really exists and it is made of light too!
What sort of light? 240 volts? Halogen? Do we have a specific wavelength or gravitational density? I am not being facetious here, scientist have "weighed the soul". Indeed, I met once a scientist that repeated the experiment to similar results.

Funnily enough, I believe in the idea of a non-physical consciousness, call it soul or spirit, but I do not believe in the experiences we have in the BKWSU. Yes, some have them (not all) but I am not sure about the interpretation of them.

In this I think I agree more with the PBKs; that those experiences are the "divine visions" or "experiences" which are the "fruits of Bhakti" ... and in essence not that meaningful. Further than that, I think that some are sort of psychically induced states that are used to encourage our commitment which are then tailed off, hence the end of the Honeymoon Period.

If the practise is "scientific" and precise, why are the experiences not universal? For example, some shooting starts comes in, blow their minds, and then fall right out of Gyan. Some good hearted and stalwart plodders chug on for years but experience nothing but waiting. And the Seniors snooze their way through Amrit Vela.

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Post by raj » 11 Jan 2008

Om Shanti sparkal,

i have replied to your private thread, have you checked it? If so, why did not you reply?

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Post by john morgan » 11 Jan 2008

Dear ex-l,

In the Subtle Region, a fountain of dull white light the colour of milk can be seen in a world of black ether. Admittedly one is still looking at life from the outside even though it is a subtle perception. In a healthy soul, the experience is of (in mythical language) of having found the fountain of eternal youth. If one has a complete experience, nothing lacking, peace purity ecstasy knowledge in most concentrated form it may be said that one understands Baba's inheritance experientially. To my mind, this is what Gyan is all about.

A picture can be worth a thousand words, a picture and an experience could be worth 22 million words. "Having found you, I have found everything, the earth the sky, everything is mine" I seem to recall from Murlis I heard long ago. Or "if all the trees were paper and the oceans ink Baba's praise could not be fully expressed" This is why the BKs are so special.

This is something quite extraordinary. Yes, the Murli does talk about visions and bhagats. Recognising who the teacher is is a very rare attainment. I write these words for me as well as you. Something very rare is happening in this Confluence Age. Every situation the BKs set up is designed for students to become aware of who the teacher is, this is not seen clearly people think they understand but they do not - unfortunately.

Even prayer may help. Please baba I wish to understand who you are, my stone intellect cannot grasp it. If the prayer helps one arrive at recognising the Yagya and Baba's hand of help it was worth praying. Whether God exists or not is the most important question. There is always more to understand. "Out of millions only a rare soul recognises me as I truly am." Anything less than happiness that you never thought possible and you are missing out. Those who follow Baba's instructions are very very smart. A loving intellect is something to be attained - a great great prize.

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Post by arjun » 11 Jan 2008

Sister Bansy wrote:OK, back to basics. The SOUL. Who told you so ? Was it from someone else who had just done lesson 1 (because Murli says you can be a teacher after 1 day, so you tell everyone he or she is a soul). Why do you beleive it ? What made you beleive it ?
Om Shanti.

In my case, since I became a BK at a very young age, I came to know about the soul through BKs, but in case of most other Hindus (and probably souls of other religions too) they are already aware of being a soul before becoming a BK or coming to them. Gita and many other Hindu scriptures mention about the soul. But it is true that BKs/PBKs lay more stress on this issue.

I believe it because it helps me in my practical life in overcoming many difficulties, like, while dealing with difficult persons/situations.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by bansy » 11 Jan 2008

Thanks for the replies.

My raising of this thread is not in so far as to understanding the "reason" or even the "experience" of the soul.

It is more with, as arjunbhai has given, how come come a concept (I am not what non-baised English term to give to the soul for discussion but to give it as an idea or concept for now) would take hold of a person who first came to the BKWSU.

Because the same question would apply when I ask another person what made you a Hare Krishna, or what made you a Scientolgoist, etc. I have not mentioned the main core religions out because the BKWSU would still belong to more of a "New Age" or "new paradign" of thinking.

Whilst the Gyan according to te BK could explain some of the reasons of the drama and tree and ladder, but on the whole how much of it is really a necessity ? When someone says they love Jesus, is that not enough and one should feel happy for that person, rather than needing to prove them wrong or look at them as if they were misled ?

I have digressed a bit because I am almost touching onto to the concepts in lesson 2, because everything else really springs from lesson 1. So, going back to the concept of the soul, is it only the BKWSU who have some definition of what it is ?

Someone said elsewhere that folks do not get converted to BKWSU or to that matter no one gets converted in Hinduism. Whereas other religions folks are converted. But surely the induction of the soul and all its inherent concepts is in itself the conversion in progress.

What do BKs say when someone ask them what religion you are ? Maybe in India, due to the various different sects of Hindusim, saying the name of this or that would not have much noticeable impact. But, say, if you are in a predominantly Christian nation, or Buddhist region, and then as a BK say you would have to tell them you beleive about something that is similar to Hinduism but it is not exactly, would that be vague. Maybe for this reason, the BKWSU has had to market itself as western New Age, renaming itself to suit western world rather than impound its own name. Would that mean the word "soul" should also be changed, and does it mean the same in Sanskrit as it does in Hindi as in does in English as it does in Swahili ?

I agree with many that , on balance, what I have learnt and learning with the BKWSU has given many a help in my own practical life. Though I have also found a lot of help outside of the BKWSU circle. In other words, when you become a BK, could you find yourself being trapped in your own soul, or (in English terminology) having "given up your soul" up for the BKWSU ?

And thus I am still on lesson 1. Those who have gone beyond this I am happy for.

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Post by bansy » 11 Jan 2008

Regarding the Subtle Region light. Has anyone ever meditated in a totally dark room but has been able to experience the so-called subtle white light, or even get near to a red glow? Even a dimly lit room does not count, must be no candles, no red bulbs either. Just pure pitch blackness.

Because from the darkness comes light.

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Post by john morgan » 11 Jan 2008

Certainly having an experience is temporary. Elevating sanskaras lasts for a much longer time. It helps to have the faith that everything is as it should be at any given point in my life. The moment I start to think that I am missing out, that someone elses experience is better than mine. That this job doesn't fit in with my speciality etc etc one is missing the point. Everything is exactly as it should be, yes we can change it by making effort but why resist what is? Sometimes a lot comes my way and I am happy, sometimes very little comes my way and I am happy. My glass is half full and I am happy but if I get distracted and I start thinking my glass is half empty then I spawn endless negativity's that could go on for ever.

A yogi is very flexible - the whole cycle is at his disposal - this is a precious gift.

The whole purpose of analysis is benefit. We are learning what we are and learning to use it wisely. Those who help in Babas work are sowing the highest karma the benefit of which lasts for such a long time. Before one can master the world one must master oneself. This must be done leaving no stone unturned. There can be no cheating, karma sees to that.
Before one can rule one must learn how to serve. Those that make good effort over a long period of time will win the race.

At the present time I am banned from going to centres and receiving Murlis. I see this as right and proper. I know I am progressing and that Baba is looking after me. No morning classes for me - except the classes I give myself. This is a phenomenal learning situation, I would not have it any other way, it is right at this time. Drama is perfect! Far better to digest undigested food before I have another meal!

Kindest regards to all.

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Post by arjun » 11 Jan 2008

John Morgan wrote:At the present time I am banned from going to centres and receiving Murlis. I see this as right and proper. I know I am progressing and that Baba is looking after me. No morning classes for me - except the classes I give myself. This is a phenomenal learning situation, I would not have it any other way, it is right at this time. Drama is perfect! Far better to digest undigested food before I have another meal!
Although you have been away from BKs since a long time, you write about BKs better than the BKs/PBKs.:D In fact your posts are in total conflict with your label which reads 'ex-BK' :? I think you can be their brand ambassador :lol:. But will the Chief Executives of BKWSU Corporation select you ignoring the advice of their Marketing Heads? :roll:

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Post by john morgan » 11 Jan 2008

Dear Arjun

Waking up can be so very hard to do.

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Post by sparkal » 11 Jan 2008

rahul wrote:Om Shanti sparkal, I have replied to your private thread, have you checked it? If so, why did not you reply?
I don't speak to individuals Rahul, I speak to the world, my ego is far too big to speak to only one person. :lol:

(Sorry, I don't get much time ... these sisters in the library hound me off the computer. They take the place of Bk sisters in my life you see. Will go see now, peace. )

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