Does the soul exists ? What is it REALLY ?

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Post by raj » 11 Jan 2008

Om Shanti,

most important knowlegde we get from this Gyan is 'what is soul'? The Murli says it is mind and intellect along with resolves. In Hindu literature, soul is specified but it is not explained in practical sense consistently.

But as brahmin, we know to practically be soul-conscious is to be conscious of mind and intellect. For resolves it is said that for becoming brahma to Vishnu needs 1 second but to become Vishnu to brahma needs 5,000 years. (Here, 5000 years refers to its shooting in sangam yug period).

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Post by bansy » 11 Jan 2008

Hi Rahul,
Welcome to the forum. Please enjoy.
rahul wrote:Murli says it is mind and intellect along with resolves. in Hindu literature soul is specified but, it is not told in practical sense consistently.

but as Brahmin we know to practically be soul conscious is to be conscious of mind and intellect. for resolves it is told that for becoming Brahma so Vishnu needs 1 second but to become Vishnu to Brahma needs 5000 years. (here, 5000 years refers to its shooting in sangam yug period)
This is why I mention in the first post of this thread :
Please no M-I-S stuff here, Mind Intellect Sanskars explanations here otherwise it defeats the indoctrination of lesson 1
Your reply is a valid but much too far down the limits for this thread (most member are aware of Gyan (most members have many years of Gyan and BK life)), so we are really focusing on about the first 5 minutes say of lesson 1, not even near lesson 2, 3, 4 etc. And we are nowhere near any Murli reasonings here. (*)

When we all learned about soul for the first time, no-one ever heard of the Murli. At that time, what was it about the soul that pulled you. Remember the first day you walk into the BK centre and someone says "Om Shanti" and explain the meaning. What is the feeling from that time. Not the feeling you have now. Maybe an Indian perspective is different than from a non-Indian too.

(*) If everyone in the world is a soul because the Murli said so, then everyone should have the Murlis ?

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Post by mr green » 11 Jan 2008

The soul is really just conceptual idea, NO-ONE knows if it is a reality or not.

Anyone who thinks they 'know' this are deluded.

All we really know is that we are conscious, whether it is a seperate energy from the body or whether consciousnes exists only generated by energy from the body ... we just don't know, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter either ... or should that be ether :lol:.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jan 2008

john morgan wrote:At the present time I am banned from going to centres and receiving Murlis. I see this as right and proper.
Did you really get "banned" from going to centers? What did you do to achieve that?

I am interest to know more about this because it is new to me. We read about good BK types being banished because of going to or listen to PBK stuff ... what was it in your case? To me you sound more 'BK', genuinely spiritual, than many BKs, neophyte or corporate.

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Post by sparkal » 12 Jan 2008

:shock: Not another trouble maker. A naughty boy.

Questioning the soul and wondering as to its nature at any level suggests that we are viewing it from a bodily awareness.

In the same way, in the "Golden Age", are we likely to be naturally soul conscious and marvel and question as to what this strange thing called the body is? This is perhaps the first experience for new students, that there is something different going on within, yet it is also recognizable. Recognition.

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Post by john morgan » 12 Jan 2008

Why did I get banned? A good question. The answer is to me unbelieveable even now.

Around two and a half years ago, this knowledge really worked for me for the first time. Here I was alone with just the knowledge, my experiences were far better than they had ever been at the centre and no one else around! One day someone attacked me - a psychic attack. They speared me in the heart and stomach, it was excruciatingly painful. I had the feeling that this was meant to happen and that this person was a divine agent of sorts. I said to them, "do your best, it doesn't matter what you do I'll be just fine in a couple of weeks". I also said to them not to feel guilty about what they were doing afterwards as unknowingly they were being used by the divine. They had done this many times before to other people. I don't know what became of them but there was no malice on my part.

Shortly after I went to the Cambridge Centre. A voice had told me that I did not need the Murli any more. Of course I did not believe this, despite the Murli master class that this voice also spoke to me. I saw the senior brother there and he said he would talk to me in a month, in the meantime come on a Sunday and this sister would read and discuss the Murli with me.

At that time I was going through massive change, negativity was pouring out of me like nothing I had seen or experienced before; I had was taken down to the bare bones and then some, and thought about Baba all the time. This probably looked to others as if I was in deep trouble. One Sunday, after the Murli reading, I talked to some ladies in the Inner Space shop. As my strength came from my Raja Yoga experiences, I discussed one of them. Unknown to me this disturbed these ladies somewhat. During the course of that month I had been put in touch with Maureen Goodman as I had deep questions about what was happening to me. A lot of it was a load of rubbish but she gave me very good advice.

One morning she answered the phone and there were lots of people around her and she gave me the, "you are banned from the centres" speech which sounded most impressive ... only to attend public talks etc.

So why was I banned? Well, I had disturbed the ladies in Cambridge albeit unknowingly and I was following my own star as best I could. This was the best thing Maureen could have done, it threw me back on myself. At first I was very worried but in a matter of hours I discovered that I could accept the situation and change my reaction to it. What has ensued has been the best time of my life. For some time after that, I would call Maureen and ask for Murlis. She had arranged for the summary to be sent to me each day. I continued to ask for Murlis, no more often than once a month, sometimes after three months, for a year. One day she put the phone down on me.

I later emailed her and said that coming to her was a mistake that would not be repeated, a little unkind of me perhaps. The summaries continued and one day I thought all or nothing and requested that the sending of summaries be halted. This was done.

I am aware that as I change the world around me changes too. Each day a class manifests, I consider that I think deeply and usefully, have no grudges or ill will just good wishes. Kindness and gentleness are important to me. I am learning self-control and am creative. Being in God's hands can be a two edged sword. On the one hand, one can think I am in deep trouble because I am in God's hands. This was my early days of Gyan. Now I often feel as if Baba is inside my mind about to burst into my consciousness with incredible power and joy. I experience no distress through comparing myself unfavourably to others and am stronger than ever.

I look at other meditations and knowledge, after all I was a Buddhist Christian Siddha etc. and am very gently being guided to self-mastery. Sometimes my eyes change and I get the feeling that I am a very moral being. All this is not Shrimat, it is my way. Hence my philosophy - patchwork quilt! Despite my other studies the Murli is predominant. On occasions, the knowledge interferes with what I wish to learn.

Whether the BKs understand me or not is irrelevant. My interactions with Sister Maureen have brought me great benefit. Everyone has a part. My ability to understand and help others is greater now that it has ever been. The Murli is a great treasure.

Well, it seems that I have deviated from the original question quite a bit, I hope you enjoyed the diversion.

Kindest regards,

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Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jan 2008

Very good post John. Well done. I am interested that another individual comes forth with such vivid psychic experiences following an involvement with the BKWSU. You are not alone in this.

And it will be no wonder to most of us here that the Beakies lost their bottle after you frightened off 'The Good Ladies of Cambridge'.

More later, I'd like to offer others room to take the initiative. I do believe that your experiences were real though.
  • Unless you have already answered, how did you find your way here?

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Post by john morgan » 12 Jan 2008

Dear ex-1,

The Good Ladies of Cambridge really are The Very Good Ladies of Cambridge.

Very very nice people, they were open honest sincere and friendly to me.

Just to put the record straight - with no delay!

John

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Post by bansy » 12 Jan 2008

Hi john m

It seems it has taken you several decades to find yourself, and I am really happy for you.

To let you know there are also a few other members who, having more or less left this forum, now usually converse over at spiritualsun.org or at cultexit.org, both forums for the "matured" ex-BKs (matured as in maybe both in experience as in age :P ). And there are also a few relatively active members here also on those forums.

Please continue to post here when uninhibited.

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Post by john morgan » 12 Jan 2008

Hi Bansy,

A bit of banter is good. Thanks for the tips. Please let me know when I am uninhibited :D

Kindest regards,

John

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Post by fluffy bunny » 13 Jan 2008

john morgan wrote:The Good Ladies of Cambridge really are The Very Good Ladies of Cambridge. Very, very, nice people ...
Yes, yes ... we have gone from the "Ladies who Lunch" to 'Ladies who Yoga'.

So if it was not them, who was it Maureen freaking because something genuinely spiritual and transformative was happening to a yogi soul? Good, God ... we cant have that!!! Folks will be expecting to become enlightened next.

In my opinion, generally their trump card, in dealing with cases like yours that "over-cook", is to play the "mental illness" card which carries significant social stigma in the Hindu circles. You would think it is contagious. They are happy to prey on vulnerable people, alkies, druggies, prisoners, widows and take their money or time ... but when matter gets to hot, they are happy to drop them just as quick. I know this as fact.

I actually believe that on a psychic level you were having some kind of genuine experience. What it is or was, I cannot tell at present. We need more data. But I do think that individuals ARE thrown into this by the practises. I have experienced some very weird things; others, including wives of BKs who were leaving their family etc, have also documented such here.

I am not surprised or condemning of it, I actually expect it to happen. I just think that there is no provision and little real knowledge or support for when the ******* does hit the fan.

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Post by john morgan » 13 Jan 2008

Thanks for that ex-l,

I have to agree with you, to a certain extent. It can be much easier to label someone as a Bhagat, or something similar, and forget about them than to really help. Unfortunately this happens at sometime or other in most organisations. Also the time you have taken to assure me that there is some validity in my experience shows that you care - Thanks!

We all are the raw material with which to progress, and systems of thought and living seek to develop the individuals into useful and progressive beings. It seems to me that once a person realises that their thought creation is within their control, and examines the thought process, they can begin to discriminate between useful and useless thoughts. Until they do this life can be very tough.

The BKs do provide incredible guidance to many but there are also many that they do not seem able to help. Possibly this is because of lack of experience within the BK organisation. If they had been there, had a certain difficulty and solved it then from experience they surely they would help many more than they do. To say we do not know how to help you would bring no shame.

Many difficulties in people's lives can be overcome without the intervention of God. The BK approach is to lead excellent lives and for others to adjust to that. The trouble is that for people who cannot "tune in" (at the moment, they can with proper guidance) the BK way of life is very hard, nigh impossible. The BKs believe that their way is the only way, the best way, that God is only teaching through this organisation and for the individual who has become deeply enmeshed in this life then leaves it can be very painful. It can even mean in their mind that they are damned forever. This is an error in thinking.

The right thing has to be taught in the right way. Thoughts can be very painful as can other peoples words and attitudes. Somehow we all have to learn to create thoughts which work for us and others. Everyone is valuable and every situation can be a means of progress.

Psychiatry tries to help people but it cannot do this effectively because they treat people as chemical entities, they can "diagnose" but this is often seen by the patient as authoritive and permanent whereas it seems to me that all states of mind are temporary and ultimately within the control of the individual. Sadly psychiatry is "pill happy."

If a person realised that they can control their own mind attitudes and actions they would be self-reliant, good guidance could faciliate fast progress. If the word "sin" were replaced by "negative energy" it would be far more useful in many situations.

So what should a person do if they leave Raja Yoga? Assuming that they need to evaluate their experience, one thing they could do is come here and speak openly about it. This might take great courage and, whilst help could not be absolutely guaranteed, there are people here who have survived the BK experience and are involved in useful activity. If they feel they cannot talk openly there is the private messaging system. To look at various posts that each individual has made, and to discriminate as to who may be able to help, and then message them could be a good way of starting.

If one is still in Raja Yoga and one comes here it is for a reason. To examine one's thoughts and attitudes to see if they are fear based or love based may be just what they need. The book "As a Man Thinketh" by James Allen is very good reading. It does not contradict the Brahmin way of life. It explains in practical and simple terms how thought shapes our lives.

Patience is a virtue, a real strength. The thought "I am taking my time and making everthing clear" helps in developing this.

As the BK world is constantly changing, so is this forum. For everyone to speak up a little would mean that the content herein could be specifically targeted to the need of the moment. So if you've just visited and never made a post, this may be a good time to do it.

Kindest regards to all,

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Post by bkti-pit » 13 Jan 2008

bansy wrote:Regarding the Subtle Region light. Has anyone ever meditated in a totally dark room but has been able to experience the so-called subtle white light, or even get near to a red glow? Even a dimly lit room does not count, must be no candles, no red bulbs either. Just pure pitch blackness. Because from the darkness comes light.

Dear Bansy,

My first experience of light in meditation was in darkness. I did not call it Subtle Region. It was not so much a visual experience, as I am not really a visual in meditation anyway, but a feeling of light. Hard to describe but it was very enjoyable. I must have been in my fourth or fifth year of Raja Yoga meditation when it happened.

When I was introduced to the concept of the soul, by a friend of mine who had joined the BKs, I thought it really made sense but it was not enough for me to believe, let alone to know. It is the experience of the soul during meditation that convinced me.

I remember my first experience of "I" the soul. I did not see any light but clearly felt the difference between me and my body and felt clearly also that I was located in the middle of the forehead as I had been told. I experienced the original nature of the soul, a sense of total peace and comfort and inner strength. I experienced my immortality, that I have no beginning and no end, that I have always been and will always be. I experienced the "home" and had a glimpse of the feeling of eternity that permeates it. I did not see any red light there, no stars.

Hope this answers your query!

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Post by bkti-pit » 14 Jan 2008

Oh! And I should add the experience of total freedom. It was great!

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Post by bansy » 14 Jan 2008

Thanks for the reply bkti-pit.

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