What is meant by "numberwise"

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bansy
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What is meant by "numberwise"

Post by bansy » 15 Jan 2008

suryavanshi wrote:Complete Knowledge of the self is true knowledge. When we say complete knowledge of the self, then it is the knowledge of 84 births, that the soul has taken. When a detailed or complete picture of the 84 births taken by a soul is realised, then only that soul would be considered as true "Gyani soul". Till then, each soul is agyani or ignorant one. When one has realised this complete self truth, them there is nothing else left to be known.The soul has become complete and has no desire to know anything then.
This wonderful realisation will be numberwise.
What exactly is meant by "numberwise".

What is the difference between number 2 and number 108, 109 and 16108, 16109 and 900,000. Or for that matter, 2 and 900,000 ? Are these just symbolic imaginary numbers made up?

Let's take the first "rosary" for simplicity. Complete knowledge is true knowledge I somewhat agree, but to realise this is numberwise ? So each one in the rosary passes with 100% and is 16degrees. Is one soul purer than the other and thus numberwise ?

Now extend that rosary. How many souls would it take for Destruction ? All 900,000 souls need to be pure to go to the Golden Age ? All must be viceless. So all the 900,000 souls need to be 100% pure and all attain 100% completion and pass the test. So how would the numberwise come into it ?

To borrow an old cliche, is it that "All souls are pure, but some souls are purer than others ?"

Remember that all souls living are still vicious (as in the Murlis). Hence the use of the so-called "advanced party", a catchall for souls who have left their bodies supposedly are 100% pure and so hanging around for the rest to join them, but except that even a soul such as Dadiji could not join. What exactly is the "advanced party" has been discussed elsewhere.

However, when someone takes an exam and each student gets a 100%, can the teacher give a prize to all, or only to his chosen pupils. In which case that teacher has shown discrimination. Can God also be discriminate ? The bottle of crystal clear water from the Andes is madeup of exactly the same components as the crystal clear water coming from the Alps, but the one from the Alps is better because ... I say so ? What's the difference. What is numberwise then?

This is quite a serious matter as it lies in the heart of the Murlis.

PS : As you can see, I am excluding the debate of the "Number 1" soul for the sake of avoiding argument here :P.

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Post by bansy » 18 Jan 2008

Interestingly, I think my post above about rosaries was answered in BapDada meeting of 18 Jan 2008 though may be an "indirect" answer.

Even some mention of Advance Party.

Will need to see the Murli.

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Post by arjun » 18 Jan 2008

What is the difference between number 2 and number 108, 109 and 16108, 16109 and 900,000. Or for that matter, 2 and 900,000 ? Are these just symbolic imaginary numbers made up?
ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has mentioned 'nashtomoha smritilabdha' (detachment and remembrance) as the deciding factor for being 'numberwise'.

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Post by mr green » 19 Jan 2008

The numbers are taken from Hinduism.

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Post by sparkal » 19 Jan 2008

Perhaps it is what we do when the odds are against us and the chips are down than when everything is flowing easy. Our ability to simply detach, let go and not get caught up in things.
Everyone will be happy in future, so all are number one. :P

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Post by bkti-pit » 20 Jan 2008

I do not like the concept of numbers.

Baba says that it is not a competition but a race. I see it as a team race. We are not racing against each other. We are racing together and helping each other to move ahead. It is a race about becoming completely benevolent and loving to all, it is a race of virtues and good karma.

And I like to see numberwise as being different and unique. No one else can be like me. No one else can be like you. There is something very valuable in each one. Some are more loving, some are more serene, some are more patient, some have greater courage. Some are doers, some are thinkers, some are speakers. Some are skilled, some are not. What does it matter?

Spirituality is not about superiority and inferiority, it is about being one big family and trying to live together with love and respect, in peace and harmony.

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different interpretations

Post by alladin » 20 Jan 2008

I do not like the concept of numbers.
Me neither and I am a hopeless case in maths :wink:.
Baba says that it is not a competition but a race.
Very often it is a matter of a nuance or the word chosen badly by the translator, that makes us miss the real meaning and totally misleads us in our efforts or even leads us away totally and makes us either horrified or discouraged, in Gyan.

It could also be that once instructions are passed down from Bap-Dada to SS etc., something gets altered, coloured by personal opinions, experiences and cultural background and gets lost on the way, or purposely twisted. So, instead of being inspired to progress, poor BK followers, are taught through fear, shame and, as you said, competition.

Such medieval methods are not really productive and are responsible for turning what is supposed to be a harmonious, spiritual family living in a house full of light and happiness, into a highly dysfunctional one, living in a gloomy, dark hovel full of paranoias, rivalry and unhappiness.

Only desperation ("no where else to go" state of mind) and brainwashing can prevent people from realizing how unhealthy that environment is and run away from it, asap!

It takes a lot of courage and discrimination power to stand for your own understanding of what Bap-Dada really means and resonates when it goes against the prevalent current, to survive, and even do service according to the principles you want to defend.

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Post by bansy » 20 Jan 2008

I also do not like numbers (or rankings or league tables etc), but if they are in the Murlis and are coming from God's mouth, then they should be studied and not ignored.

I think this thread has something similar to what shivsenabhai is trying to put through with the "108 souls" idealogy, in that what exactly is remembrance, i.e accurate remembrance. What is purity ? Is a soul who ends up 100% pure but only remembers (at the time of destruction) the Father for one second is more elevated than the other soul who is putting intense efforts to remember for 50 years but is 99% pure ? If Brahma Baba is still studying (as according to Advance Knowledge) is he amongst the 108 souls ...thought his latter point has been discussed in the PBk section).

If numbers are a combination of Gyan, Yoga, dharna, and seva so how do all these make up the numbers ? We all have to be "Bapsaman" in which case how can one soul be more "Bapsaman" than another ?

I do not expect any full answer but appreciate the churnings from everyone alike.

(shivsenabhai ... I do not have any direct answers to your thread but aware of your views and appreciate them for sharing your churnings with others)

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