The Tao of the Traveller

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ms orange
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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by ms orange » 27 Mar 2008

In reply to the conversations about the Tao, I felt a real resonance with everybody. I also, like ex-lady (whoever she may be), bansy, ranee and others love the Tao and was drawn to it at an early age. I spent a whole season in Madhuban listening to recordings of the cello during Amrit Vela and reading the Tao of Pooh and the Te of Piglet after Amrit Vela (another year I did the same with Pink Floyd and the Gita ... they were wonderful experiences I can tell you!). Even the fact that we're discussing it makes it un-Tao and so I don't want to move too far from it.

By making the Traveller film we wanted to give people a feeling of raw spiritual experience. What lies at the heart of all traditions that souls all over the world are searching for. By this, I don't mean wanting people to become BKs (I have never been interested in proselytising - God knows there's enough of that and I've probably done it in many lives which is why I really don't want to in this one). What I mean is giving people an experience of spirituality. I really cannot capture what I mean in words, and I do apologise for my limitation in this. But I think that's another reason we chose Tao. It cannot be captured in words. It is a way and an un-way. It is a state of being rather than a state of knowing. And I won't go on because Lao-Tze said it much better. Even Lao-Tze only spoke around the Tao and not of the Tao. So interesting! That language can only ever be a marker, or a pointer that indicates a direction. It can never capture anything absolutely.

The production office is our home address because basically Robin - like me - only has one permament address which is our family home. The email I gave you: info@saligram.com (I think) will reach him and you can ask the questions you like. I don't know what the agreements with other people are. With me, I did it for the enjoyment of doing it. I haven't received any payment nor do I ever wish to.

Also - for ex-Lady my fellow Tao appreciater - the BKWSU is my window to the divine. It is my avenue to God. I have no need to protect the BKWSU ... it has no need for protection in my view. Criticising others one will be criticised. Demeaning others one will be demeaned. After such a brief time with the BKWSU, I am sorry that you have been hurt so deeply ex-lady, as it seems. Truly I am (this is not meant to patronise, but I am limited by what I can type in words as we're not seeing each other in person). That's why I figure that whatever happens within the BKWSU happens. I can just do what I do the best I can and tread my own path.

Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

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Let us not be pure but not naive

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Apr 2008

ms orange wrote:Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
as a reply, ex-l wrote:Before spirituality, dig for the truth; after spirituality, dig for the truth ...
but previously, John Olday wrote:Together with Robin Ramsay, disowned (grand)son of the millionaire owner of Kiwi shoe polish factory, who had made in the 2nd World War a fortune on arms manufacturing, he staged in Sydney a mime show (The Immortal Clown) intention being to attract New Australians from different countries ...
Now, whether the Kiwi fortune actually came from "World War II munitions manufacturing", or merely from the polished boots of all the dead young Anzac and Allied men, I do not know. You can fill us in on the details. One detail that did interest me is that the Kiwi polish franchise for India is operated by the Godrej Group where, as we noted earlier, workers were being forced to have compulsory Raja Yoga lessons by their employers and BKWSU members "Shri Brian Bacon and Shri Marc Fourcade" was consulting on a "several year strategic assignment" !

I am sure this is coincidence, as I read the family sold on a large part of the Kiwi business. And to non-BKs, it was seem natural that congregation members would want to business together. But it seems like a "small world" coincidence and it illustrates how a small part of the world, or BK world, operates.
Sorry to take time to reply but I wanted to illustrate my points clearly and impersonally. Two of the issues we have raised regularly on this forum are,
  • a) the one of about the unspoken and internal caste systems within the BKWSU including their, and Baba's, love of VIPs and VIP treatment schemes and,
    b) individuals mixing their personal business in with Gyan.
I raised to this topic because the adoption of religion (Taoism) went beyond just BK-ism, I questioned Janki Kripalani's involvement with it, and I am critical of spiritual waters being muddied. I like my dirt and my water to be clearly separate.

I did not leave because I was not "hurt" by the BKWSU. But, yes, my involvement wasted and damaged my life ... and certainly career. For me the turning points were; firstly, sitting watching the now global chief and her backbone plan about the deployment of the troops in global service and the best they come up with was self-advertisement and chasing VIP, no real service at all. Secondly, personally being used for professional self-interest and seeing the system being used for monetary self-interest by some lauded "Innocent Lord" of a BK. I guess they have both made a lasting impression on me about the BKs.

In my days, the latter was distinctly against the Maryadas although that seems to have been relaxed, for some, now.
in the Wikipedia, the family wrote:In the early 1980's Ramsay was commissioned to create a new solo show celebrating the life and times of Rabindranath Tagore, India's Nobel Prizewinning poet: titled Borderland The invitation came from the Indian High Commission in Canberra. The play was performed in Australia, then toured to more than 60 countries in support of United Nations and NGO projects, in tandem with The Bastard From The Bush'. The tour was sponsored by the Australian Government through its Cultural Relations Department, The British Council and the Indian Government, as well as Australian High Commissions and Australian Embassies abroad.
What do you reckon, did it "tour to more than 60 countries in support of United Nations and NGO projects" or for the BKWSU? If the former, which NGOs and which department of the UN? I certainly remember how it was used for service and did not realise that centers were also, apparently, supporting a personal professional career.
Ramsay's interest in meditation and spiritual matters became of interest to him from the 1980's. He spent time in a number of meditation centres, while still performing with 'Open Secret' and elsewhere. From 2001-2006 he lived at Inner Space Retreat Centre near Wilton New South Wales. His first feature film as a Producer/Director 'Tao of the Traveller', based on the book by Barbara Bossert Ramsay and the subsequent stage production is nearing completion:[http:www.taotraveller.com] The film features Clarke Peters of HBO's The Wire, Lucinda Drayton of Bliss, and Ramsay's younger daughter Tamasin Ramsay in the lead role. Ramsay recreated his Tagore show Borderland recently in London, as part of the celebrations for India Now, a project sponsored by the Lord Mayor of London
No mention of the mutual commercial and religious interests. In fact, the Brahmakumaris are written right out or hidden ... Now, for me, the commercial arts are no different from any other business. In business terms, they are high-risk, high-reward investments. I have been openly critical of Brian Bacon's use of (or "empowering" of) chosen and senior followers within the BK network to establish and share a business network, and the shady revolving door that seems to exist between the two. Let us be pure but not naive about it. My working theory would be, if there is one revolving door in a business, there are probably others and a history of them.

If we look above and relate it to BK promotions of the same movie, certain ambiguities arise. Is it or is it not BK service? Is it or is it not business amongst commercial artists? Often on the web these days we see BKs using their BK investment as an advertisement for their professional interest, even Seniors such as Jayanti giving business references and recommendations as corporate consultants to BK followers.

This is why I started by asking what the contracts between BKs and this project were. What was "on paper" rather than notional? Actions versus words. BKs have in the past been paid, albeit small sums, to work on Ramsay productions. I remember some of them. Career used for BK, BK used for career ... keep it in the family. It seems to be that there are two things going on here at the same time ... permitted and encouraged by a leadership who discourages others ... what is good for certain individuals is fine if it is good for them too and without a doubt. And here we have some of the jewels of the BK family and VIPs coming together. But which is? Ramsay, Inc or BKWSU, Inc?

Are BK all allowed both now? My generation certainly were not. Others are still not. There appears to be at least a two stream caste system operating (3 if you include the Bharatwassi cattle truck class). What are the Maryadas regarding mixing business and goldy pleasure now?

They say one of your family donated an entire center to the BKWSU, is that correct? We have discuss how other center sponsors elsewhere have received benefits from the likes. I just ask the reasonable question of "what are the kick backs from the BK system?" and "Can anyone get in on it, or is there a threshold of 'added value' that one has to reach before one is given such liberties?" They were all for dumbing us lot down, cutting our education and careers, in order to create sufficient serfs for their feudal spiritualist system ... in my opinion, they still do for hundred of young Indian women.

I do apologise if this feel personal but if one enters the public domain and starts off in a career that profits from self-publicity, then the right to fair comment from others also arises. This applies equally to individuals and organizations. At the end of the day, I don't know what is really going on and so I am asking. That is all. God says, it will all come out in the wash anyway. I flag up the trend of BKs to use re-labelled BK service to bolster their personal careers and to use "Baba's" networks. Apparently the BK's Baba is cool with that now ... I put a call out to the Murli scholars for a few quotes on this.

It could even be a positive development ... a BK co-prosperity sphere, a shared commonwealth ... if it is open to all, clarified publicly and not just closed for a chosen few. My continued apologies to you but, given where I have started on this topic, I have to smile at one of BK Robin Bhai's other notable roles in "Dadah is Dead". Which Dada are we talking about here!?! ... My sentiments entirely, old chap.

Now, let us drink of the Source ... (taken at random without any intent or control from, here).
Lao Tsu wrote:Knowing ignorance is strength.
Ignoring knowlege is sickness.

If one is sick of sickness, then one is not sick.
The sage is not sick because he is sick of sickness.
Therefore he is not sick.

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Re: Ranee

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Apr 2008

One short postscript ... this is targeted more for ranee's benefit.

The environment of this forum grew out of one in which we were told the only other support forum for ex-BK and friends and family was shut down by the BKWSU under legal threats. You need to check if this is true but I understand it to be and "sealed" by a confidentiality agreement. If it is true or not, the BKWSU should hold an inquiry and make an open statement about it.

The BKWSU, individual BKs and members here have openly both criticised and attacked the policy of anonymity even though, for example, reputable institutions such as the United Nations have themselves anonymous ombudsperson systems to handle difficult complains and situations. In many way, the legal attack on this forum was a "forced entry" devised by top attorneys on bogus grounds and, seemingly, coordinated by a "rogue BK" going off on their own without consulting others. Again this ought to be confirmed to satisfy your own concerns. Its a wonder how the legal system serves money and might ... not right. But we pulled through stronger.

PBKs get barred even in the liberal West. center-in-charges and the SS use the system to garner personal information about others in an unaccountable manner. BKs are afraid of what being exposed might mean to their eternal spirituality, even though they might support some of our aims and be genuinely interested in our research. Mail servers are centrally blocked towards us, controlling what centers can and cannot receive. Considerable disinformation has been spread about us ... although we hope relationship is improving through our initiatives, not theirs.

You have to admit, it is a bit of a crazy, hothouse, dysfunctional family situation, is not it? It is not at all benign.

So to insist that individuals step out into the open is a bit like the British Empire telling the Indians (red or brown) or Africans to step out of their cover and put down their primitive arms and shields before they will talk to them ... and their Gatling gun. Right.
  • You first ranee ... let's see the whites of your eyes. :shock: (OK, I am uptodate now ...)
I am here because I am interested and was intellectually starved whilst in the BKWSU. This forum feels much more fun and interesting.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by ms orange » 11 Apr 2008

I've answered your queries, responded to your challenges and really done my best to be as open, honest and direct as I possibly can about who I am, my life and how I feel and think about things. I have been a Raja Yogi for almost quarter of a century, so I know that there are flaws and foibles and stuff ups within the organisation, many I've made in my own personal life and of course leaders within the Brahma Kumaris have made them too. So what?

The organisation and the people in it are still the most authentic, true spirited, pure-hearted and hard-working people that I have ever met. I have yet to meet a Raja Yogi who wants something back for what they have given. I could tell you many wonderful stories illustrating this, but would you really want to hear them? It seems you would only attempt to negate them or try to prove youself right somehow, regardless of what I offered. And I say the above with the authority of my experience.

I have lived in centres in Australia, Europe and India, travelled all over the shop, worn saris and thrown them out and then worn them again, I've oiled my hair and shaved it off, felt the bliss of Yoga, and the frustration of effort, I've been shoved to the back, put up the front, worked for a living and also done graduate study, so I am not blind to the colours and shapes of spiritual life and I am equally aware of what's going on out there in the world - I don't lead and have never led a cloistered existence. However, I consider myself absolutely dedicated to the cause of world change and world peace. And so I say the above from the depths of my heart and clear vision.

Yes, there have been mistakes made and God knows we will probably make more. These are a group of people who are on the path of becoming as good and great as is humanly possible. Have a bit of compassion and cut them/us some slack. I've seen and felt the proof of this path in some and am seeing the proof in others - even in myself to some extent. Show me a straight and obstacle-free path and I'll eat my shawl. With love and peace to all, I am over this forum. Tamasin

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Re: BK info balance

Post by pilatus » 11 Apr 2008

Hello ms orange, please don't give up on the forum. We especially need input from practising BK's to balance the sometimes very strong and direct ex-BK tendencies.

Hello ex-lady, please, please don't (even implicitly) lay the blame for the various deficiencies which you (and we) see in BK-land at the door of one BK who's had the courage to openly come on the forum, share her name with us and respond to the points which you've raised and which she's comfortable with.

This forum needs balance to succeed in its mission. We all want to play our part in this but open and honest dialogue and compassion are the keys, not the Spanish Inquistion (nobody expects that! :P )

Lots of love and best wishes to you all,

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My pms are shut down by me. Thank you and best wishes to
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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by tete » 11 Apr 2008

Dear Ms Orange,

Sorry to hear you are leaving. Please note that some like me were initially too shy to say who we were. You may be sitting with some forum members and not even know it. When I arrived at xBKchat I was shocked to find that people were writing about my family member, my child and me. Imagine that. I did not seek out the contact (forum support) from some ill will or rancor and in fact I remain respectful and supportive of those still in or still attached to Gyan.

Some of my best Gyan teachers were the most challenging ones and at times seemed destined to prepare me for more challenges to come. The harshness is only on the exterior as Arjun so eloquently explained. That is the problem with the truth, often it is simply hard to look at, but eventually we live it and see its beauty.

My family member has great fondness of the BKs and still loves many within. He remembers your Father well and others too. The fondness is something that doesn't leave ex-BKs and it is something that takes years to come to terms with.

I only came out due to the legal action by Dr. Hansa Raval and because I felt a moral obligation to help the site remain open. Those here have helped me so much, even the ones that were active BKs which made it all the more touching (a true act of kindness) and even the PBKs offered me their friendship (whom I have come to know over time). After reading what some were risking (I was truly humbled by their selfless act) in defending the site, I felt I could do no less. I had actually been protective of them (BKs) and at times have been judged by others for this. Life is filled with challenges and ironies. Imagine the feat of finding the bonds that held it together were from such a varied collage of people all linked by a spiritual path. That is truly the remarkable part of this unfolding story as it speaks to the will of survival and how many although so different can all pull together to save one another. This semblance is really the beauty, essence and live expression of God.

When I had to make the choice of speaking up on behalf of the truth (to keep this site open) I did, as did many others too, but my choice did cause friction in my home. In the end it was for the best, and I have no regrets. Wise souls say that coming through great crisis builds character and builds new bridges/paths to unforeseen opportunities.

This site is very unique and some Cult/NRM experts may find it to be an anomaly in that the site works with everyone, within, without, thinking of going in, new groups (splinter) developing from the original, the curious and the family and friends too. It may serve as a model one day for Cults/NRMs that are emerging and serve as a template on how to build positive communications with all in a non-judgmental loving way. Keeping the lines of communications is the only method of helping those in need, those too shy to come out, helping others in solving problems, being respectful of others that chose to continue on their spiritual path, engaging in deep discussion (often difficult ones too), offering others a life-line when their support system collapses and ultimately finding a sense of peace/co-existence.

Thank you for stopping by, sharing your thoughts and hopefully someday you will return for another visit.

Regards,
Tete

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by joel » 12 Apr 2008

ms orange wrote: The organisation and the people in it are still the most authentic, true spirited, pure-hearted and hard-working people that I have ever met. I have yet to meet a Raja Yogi who wants something back for what they have given. I could tell you many wonderful stories illustrating this, but would you really want to hear them? ... I consider myself absolutely dedicated to the cause of world change and world peace.
Hi Tamasin,

I've been following this thread, will take a moment to respond to your words and feelings. First, I acknowlege what you say regarding the outstanding personal qualities you find in the BK family. Second, that you feel you are being hounded by one of our posters. Sorry to hear you feel unwelcome. Try to remember that no one person is all of the forum. I, for one, think you have no responsibility to answer to anyone here for anything. Just write if care to.

Here is a version of my story. I will connect with the issue of being emotional dependent on the BKs, which I think is behind some of the criticisms you are hearing.

I followed the BK lifestyle pretty assiduously for a number of years, about half of your quarter-century. I was twenty-two earnest, serious, hungry for acknowledgement and approval. I felt welcomed by my spiritual family, allowed the lifestyle to motivate my actions, to bring me into new experiences of myself, new connections with others, new challenges and achievements, and of course, the excitement and intensity of what I believed was my directly relating to God.

Much of it seems foreign to me now, yet I was consumed with and satisfied with my BK lifestyle for many years. I did spend time in Robin's company in Hong Kong and later in Kobe. In those years I was still actively dedicating my life to BK service with enough experience to begin to separate my emotional identity. I had begun noting certain aspects of BK knowledge and teachings seemed diammetrically opposed to my direct life experience. This crystallized in BK teachings regarding anger and the BK attitude to emotions in general.

In retrospect and in present, I think there is some passivity in my personality that seems to benefit from or perhaps need some external sources of motivation. I think that through the BK institution, many do realize a relationship with someone who will motivate them. It turns out that the relationship involves beliefs and practices and sense of self, can contain a strong element of dependence, and financial consequences, if one chooses to tithe one's income or donate one's assets.

From what I saw, Robin was standing on his own feet as he created his relationship with the BKs. Probably your choices, too, you experience as independent mature choices. On the forum we've discussed how people have varying levels of emotional independence as they join the BK family, and how different personal trajectories can be for those give up their ability to think and decide for themselves, surrendering their will to a another person who happens to be a sari-wearing sister or brother.

Apprenticing in Japan traditionally involved subsuming oneself fully to the teacher. It is not surprising or unusual behavior among humans.

Anyway, a number of us who have left the BKs (along with some BKs, non BKs, PBKs, QuestioningBKs, etc.) are able to talk about what really went on, what we felt when we testified from the gaddi, or got the nectar poured, or got up to give drishti to the room before Baba came without being asked. How it was to teach, to relate to our families, if we still did. How we came to leave the BKs, etc.

Before we were always talking privately in the hallways, outdoors, with our doubts and so-called negative thoughts. This forum is a convenient mostly-unpoliced water cooler for some ex-BKs and fringe BKs to exchange ideas and experiences. It is a lifeline for others feeling isolated--outside the BK embrace for the first time in years. The forum is like first aid for some non-BKs, support and understanding for why their newly converted family members are emotionally remote, unwilling to touch.

Some people take the extreme of BK detachment teachings to mean to stop touching their children. Often the BK sisters don't know that their words are having that impact on the new follower's children. Touch turns out to be very fundamental to the emotional health of all mammals, and especially for the development of young. Shame about feelings of being drawn to touch has led at least one BK woman, Ranjana, to suicide, and this shame is something that BK teachings cause to build in toxic proportions in some people, the way that other people are allergic to cat hair or bee stings.

For those of us adjusting to having been touch-starved or intimacy-starved the stakes are serious, and this forum means a lot by allowing us to speak and be heard. Still, I haven't heard of any weddings or children born of meetings on this forum. The BK centers are ahead of us on this count. :D

So here we are. If your celebrated paternity and exposure on the BK stage draws attention, and some criticism, well that is the reality. I see you can defend yourself. There are many others of us with other stories... I for one, welcome you to read and post as you please. The forum always has room for mature communicators.

Bye for now, Tamasin. Thanks for reading if you get this far. Please give my regards to Robin. I am sure he will remember me. I will be interested to see your production.

Joel

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by bkti-pit » 13 Apr 2008

Hi Ms Orange!

I think that you have been very courageous to reveal your identity and have been open and honest in your posts, exactly what this forum is asking for. It seems to me that there is not much more you could say on this topic. but I am sorry if you decide to quit the forum all together. We need more BKs like you, not less.

Thanks for your contribution.

Om Shanti!

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Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: It has been over a year that I left the center but still there is a lot of pain in my heart...pain caused by deception. I went in looking to come into grips with my own sense of self and came out with no faith at all. The experience was so bad at times that now I am clear there is no such a god. For that I am grateful. Yet, there were other moments that I would not change for the best of my experiences. I experienced love as I had never imagined! It was a beautiful experience of forbidden love.

Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by driedexbk » 13 Apr 2008

ms orange wrote:The organization and the people in it are still the most authentic, true spirited, pure-hearted and hard-working people that I have ever met. I have yet to meet a Raja Yogi who wants something back for what they have given. I could tell you many wonderful stories illustrating this, but would you really want to hear them? ....I consider myself absolutely dedicated to the cause of world change and world peace.
Please, ms orange, do not get blue with what I would like to share with you. Indeed, both, the organization and its people are most authentic as the people of any organization and their people would be authentic. Authentic has many meanings. I am confident that if you were part of another cult you would find it as authentic, true spirited, pure-hearted and hard-working people. This is nothing new nor different. You may think it is because you are under the influence of a cult but I am sure you do not recognize it because it is part of cult indoctrination. We met once in Madhuban and I liked you very much. I still do. Please, do not ask of me to reveal my name. Many of us who have left the organization or even those who may still be there but are sharing in this forum live in fear for what could be done to us if found out we are sharing our thoughts and are telling our stories that include us and them.

You also say that you have yet to meet a Raja Yogi who wants something back for what they have given. Many of us do, ms orange, including the center's main sisters. I gave all I had including every drop of blood from my body. I wanted the kind of love and purity which one receives the first time you get in connection with the Brahma Kumaris to continue being real... may I say authentic? The instruments give you that at the beginning, then they say you are on your own with Baba. There is no Baba. It is all about human relationships... how we share with one another the truth of this knowledge (indoctrination) not about how we use people's susceptibilities. As in my case after I left, the instrument in charge, whom I love very dearly, in more than one occasion expressed her disappointment in terms of a subtle complaint: "so many wonder why you would leave after I gave so much love and attention to you". Is disappointment not a sign of wanting something back? When one gives truly and selflessly, one forgets having given and moves on to the next cause.

I know you are very well dedicated to the cause of world change and world peace. I am, too.

Om Shanti,
Driedexbk

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by mr green » 13 Apr 2008

Hello ms orange ... good to meet another colour heheheeheh.

As long as you're not agent orange, heheh.

aaaaaahhh grasshopper

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by bansy » 13 Apr 2008

ms orange wrote:I also, like ex-lady (whoever she may be), bansy, ranee and others love the Tao and was drawn to it at an early age.
Hi ms orange,
Yes, some of the good things we learn can stay with us for a long time.

Sorry to hear you are leaving the forum, I only raised this thread so that BKs and non BKs alike worldwide would be aware of such a DVD. A media like the the web which now enables music and videos is a far cry from cassettes and vinyls only 20 years ago. Do you reckon the DVD will be shown free on youtube or google videos ?

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by ms orange » 14 Apr 2008

Hi Bansy, yes, indeed it will be free on the web. There is a new website where you can see the trailer. You may have been to the site before, but this is the new one. It will be complete after the 19th.

I am glad you brought up the traveller theme. I think it's important and I enjoyed discussing some of the issues that came up. So many of the questions and concerns you and others raised on this forum are ones I've had myself as have many others. Somehow though I've found a way to muddle through and keep my connection with God alive and see through the mess to the heart of it all, and I am now more convinced than ever, that this path is the right one for me.

All my best,
Ms Orange

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by ms orange » 14 Apr 2008

Oops! I thought my last posting was a private message!

Well ... now that I am on the forum anyway, thanks for all your lovely messages both public and private. Much appreciated.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by alladin » 14 Apr 2008

Hi Tamasin,
ms orange wrote:The organisation and the people in it are still the most authentic, true spirited, pure-hearted and hard-working people that I have ever met. I have yet to meet a Raja Yogi who wants something back for what they have given. I could tell you many wonderful stories illustrating this,
Great, each one of has has good and bad experiences in BK life. I wonder if you were a bit over enthusiastic when you wrote these lines or if you are perceiving the Forum as extremely critical towards the BKs and you reacted by taking on the role of a lawyer for a while. You are impartial enough to say
ms orange wrote: I know that there are flaws and foibles and stuff ups within the organisation,
ms orange wrote:I don't lead and have never led a cloistered existence. authority of my experience. I have lived in centres in Australia, Europe and India, travelled all over the shop, worn saris and thrown them out and then worn them again, I've oiled my hair and shaved it off, felt the bliss of Yoga, and the frustration of effort, I've been shoved to the back, put up the front,
So you tried it all and probably got some kick on the face like all of us. What counts is surviving, and growing, is not it?
Easier if the role Drama assigned you makes those kick -boxers a little be more gentle, because different castes and roles result in different treatment : We can never put ourselves in other people's shoes, but please believe that the perception many troops BKs have, is the one you can read in some posts like the ones above, i.e. ex-l in
ex-l wrote:and "Can anyone get in on it, or is there a threshold of 'added value' that one has to reach before one is given such liberties?" They were all for dumbing us lot down, cutting our education and careers, in order to create sufficient serfs for their feudal spiritualist system
Talking about fiefdoms, let me tell u : I know and loved some VIP BKs who were very serviceable, lived in the protection of some ivory tower- did not have a clue about what's going on in the ghetto where the serves live and did not care to know about how they get treated. But when bad manners and "users" attitudes that proliferate in the institutions, reached them, boy! that was painful!

Siddharta got a lot of inspiration by walking around the slums and acquiring the full picture. This is the portrait we want to make available on the Forum, the full one.

Love and good vibes,
Alladin

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fluffy bunny
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Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by fluffy bunny » 18 Apr 2008

ms orange wrote:The organisation and the people in it are still the most authentic, true spirited, pure-hearted and hard-working people that I have ever met. I have yet to meet a Raja Yogi who wants something back for what they have given. I could tell you many wonderful stories illustrating this,
Strangely, I am quite defensive, or apologetic, of BKs on an individual level. A few of them are tiresome bores that need a reality check, a few so genuinely insecure that even I would be cautious of crashing that world view, I think what you say is fairly reasonable. I just wonder what game the holy ghosts and leadership are up to given the glaring anomalies and track record we are unearthing over on this forum. You know, like "no God Shiva until after 1950" and so on ... it may just be that that holy ghost is not so holy after all and just using all the goodness of individual BKs as a cover for its world domination plan.

Only time ... and a few more re-written predictions of Destruction ... will tell.

It would also be nice if they actually "did" some more instead of sitting on their butts and self-advertising all the time.

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