The Tao of the Traveller

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by paulkershaw » 07 May 2008

Oh no ... now the COLOR issue comes up again ... and I thought it was only in Africa we had to face this situation ... :roll:
and the "bearable lightness of being" returns to the forum - at last ...

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by andrey » 07 May 2008

I have been in contact with Robin and he has decided, after careful and considered perusal, not to participate in this forum. With his permission, I quote him ...
Please, confirm you also have access to Batman.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 May 2008

Andrey earns his "superhero" status for actually making a good joke! Now that is dramatic.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by mr green » 08 May 2008

ex-l wrote:Andrey earns his "superhero" status for actually making a good joke! Now that is dramatic.
Yes, Andrey you're getting better.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by jim freidman » 08 May 2008

Hello again Xl.

I haven't been on the site in a few days. I have spent the last little time checking facts and doing some research with the intention of bringing some truth and honesty to this communication.

This is done not in the hope of changing you. I think, sadly, that in this matter you and truthful facts are far apart. This is done in the hopes that others who may read this, thinking to find information and real conversation about Tao of the Traveller might find those things rather than the distortions, innuendoes and out and out untruths about them that you have left on this site. I wonder at your intent.

First let me speak about the book, the film and the creators of these whose names and conduct you have done your best to besmirch.

Here is what I found about your first objection ... the use of the word Tao. To quote you: “Actually, little bit of disrespect to the lot of them ... I wish that the collective BK world would FO "the Tao" and leave it alone for the Taoists.”.

Well, ex-l, the word Tao has quite a few meanings: From the dictionary: The way of life, That which is born and never dies and many other meanings, including the following which is the way in which it was used, (yes, I asked):

Tao: a spiritual practise or art, e.g. the Tao of archery, the Tao of carpentry, the Tao of writing (and many more), in which one becomes one with the work, nature and the universe.

TOTT began as performance pieces used at conferences and retreats in Madhuban. Spiritual art to offer the people who came. These became a book that was given to guests that came. Then it was translated into Mandarin by Simon Chau, a social activist among many other things, who is not a BK, but was a guest in Madhuban who saw the performances and was given the book. It has now been translated into six other languages.

TOTT is not as you put it, and I quote you here, “obviously laden with and intended to promote BKWSU and Gyan”. Nowhere in the film or the book is there mention of 84 births, 5000 year cycle, Brahma Baba, Krishna, or God speaking through the medium. These are the things unique to the BKs and they are never touched on.

What is talked about are universal spiritual truths; meditation, the Law of Karma (certainly not the property of the BKs), cyclic time (a theory held in ancient Greece and Rome as well as in the writings of many doctors of physics as well as other spiritual paths). It talks about there being only one God for all people. One God called by many different names.

TOTT was written deliberately to be accessible and relevant to anyone on a spiritual path, or indeed - just anyone. You would have known this if you’d bothered to read the book you criticize or waited to see the film you have ”reviewed” and I use the term loosely.

Also you seem overly exercised about money ... who financed it, how much it cost, who gets any “profit” etc etc. To clarify only and not because you are owed any explanation on these matters, as they have nothing to do with you or the BKWSU, the writer has never accepted or expected any money for the writing or sale of the book.

Neither the writer, the director or the actors in the film have ever accepted or expected money for same. The film was obviously created in the desire to “give” something to a world sadly in need of light. I have investigated thoroughly and find It is not now and never has been used as a propaganda machine for the BKWSU.

TOTT was not produced by or financially supported by or in any way controlled by the BKWSU. This is an independent production by professionals. It is meant for the wider world and not just centres etc. Yes, it has been shown in some centres. The writer, producer, director and actor are BKs. That is their community. If they were Catholic, it would doubtless have been shown at church socials and in church halls.

So ... NOT produced by, or owned by, or financed by the BKWSU. So your gripes with the organization have nothing to do with the film or the book. Your demands for knowing about money and contracts not only re the film but also Robin Ramsay's personal life long before Gyan are impertinent, rude and outrageous.

If you’d bothered to check the official website, (chasinggod.net), rather than the often dubious and incomplete IMDB database, you would have seen that it clearly states Barbara Ramsay as script editor and not as writer. A far different thing. Chasing God was a series of interviews with spiritual leaders and they spoke their own words. On that subject I note that you objected to Dadi being included, as though it were some kind of sneaky scheme. In fact she was included with a Sikh, a Buddhist, A pastor, a Muslim, a scientist, a Rabbi, a guru, a sufi, a researcher and an atheist. They were all asked the same questions and Dadi got no more time than anyone else. In fact, I think from memory that the Iman got the most. But there again you seem to see plots and schemes everywhere.

Now to your question about the film not being free to download. You opined that it was somehow the BKWSU who advised the film makers not to allow free download. The advice came not from the BKWSU, who I reiterate have nothing to do with the production, but from the copyright council and the Writer’s Guild. In their opinion, there are still ways that people can download and alter things, until they bear faint resemblance to the original, but the peeve is still attributed to the original writer. Their suggestion was to sell the DVD on the internet for a minimal price instead. That is what is happening.

You said, and again I quote you, “An organisation can’t go about copyrighting and trademarking God's spirituality or slapping about legal actions at one end and then go pirating everyone else's spirituality for its own ends at the other”.

You seem to have confused the writer of TOTT with the BKWSU organization. She has never tried to slap any legal actions on anyone. A fact which doesn’t seem to bother you at all. You also seemed concerned at the issue of copyright. This is something I know about. The truths contained in the Tao of the Traveller are certainly God's and don’t come from the writer. She has never implied that they did. However, the verses she wrote are her own. They did not drop down from the sky one day and land in her lap, nicely typed on A4 paper. In case you are unaware of it, this is how copyright works:

You cannot copyright ideas, but you must copyright the way they are expressed. Without copyright, people can alter the work, even though it is still in the author's name, either adding or deleting things until it is no longer what the writer was saying but something else entirely. This has happened to writers frightening often and there is no redress unless something is copyrighted and protected. ‘Copyleft’ is fine when you don’t care what happens to a written or filmed piece. No professional writer would use it and the Writers Guilds, agents and publishers advise against it strongly. They know more than we do about these things, so I take them at their words.

There is a subtle nastiness in your attempts to discredit. You referred to Barbara Ramsay with “aka the 'Caged Women' in "Prisoner".” You do know what that means, I assume. That she is also known as a caged woman in prisoner. I have checked the website thoroughly and It says nothing of the sort. The readers on your site can find the truth of this if they wish. It says that Barbara wrote scripts for prisoner, which in Canada was called Caged Women. I find that you have often used things that slander and taint reputations in your posts.

While on the subject of your attempts to discredit, you had a nice go at Tamasin and and her PhD research. Again I will quote you, “She (Tamasin) seems to cite 3 BKs at least in her professional references, director Jayanti, director Charlie Hogg and the director of Chasing God, de Vries. No references from the hunched up old mataji who works tirelessly and egolessly in the back kitchens of Abu ... so no good for me I am afraid”.

Well ex-l, as sad as it may be, the “hunched up old mataji etc.” doesn’t have the professional qualifications to be used as a reference. If she did she would probably have been used. That was obvious, not very subtle and very nasty. And I note that you didn’t leave Robin Ramsay out of it either. Again I will quote you, “Was Robin or was he not disowned as the heir by his super wealthy family?” The fact is he wasn’t, but I am astonished that you think you have a right to ask? I could go on refuting your statements piece by sly piece, but there is life beyond this.

Suffice it to say, in reference to some of your snide remarks, (the quotes surround your exact words) “The BKWSU business franchise system”, whatever that is, it has nothing to do with TOTT. No external money was used. There was no “pulling in of investors” as you snidely suggested. Not that it would be any of your business if it was. I say again this was not produced by the BKWSU.

One more correction. Your snide references to lot's of money flying lots of people to Switzerland and Jordan etc. are fallacious. As usual you didn’t check your facts. Those countries were used in a filmed piece made by Piero and Tamasin some years ago, when they were both living in Italy, with those places a short flight away. That was quite separate from the TOTT film, which had by the way, a cast and crew of only five, including the director and producer, and was shot in Australia (home country to three of the five), New Zealand and India.

To close, I would like to express my extreme disappointment in what could have been a wonderful and useful site. I was greatly looking forward to intelligent exchange and to exploring things that are patently wrong with the BKSWU and that need attention and change. I expected to find people sharing concerns about things they had experienced themselves, firsthand, or at least knew about with some degree of certainty. TOTT was the area I landed in first and ex-l, you were my first communication, so what I found instead was a murky sea of unjustified attacks and innuendo of the worst sort, coming from someone well hidden. Half truths, slanted questions, all of it highly questionable and, in my opinion, completely unjustified.

I had been on the site once or twice and I had found the contents particularly distasteful. Not wanting to come to any hasty conclusions, I have spent the last few days reading every post in this section. I then researched everything to be sure of the facts, and have found all of the accusations and slurs you have made about both the book TOTT and the film ditto, as well as the people who created them to be entirely without merit. This to me is a shameful thing. There is a fair amount of talk about “duty of care”. Where is yours? Or do you feel exempt in your self righteousness? Duty of Care should also exist in all of our dealings with each other. Where is the care in casting aspersions and and making statements with no basis in truth, so that people are sullied?

To those of you who might be reading this and whom I never spoke with on other places on this website, I express my regrets that that will not now happen. Someone asked me yesterday if I was going to going to access this site again. Might as well ask if I am planning on walking blind -- folded into traffic or sticking my head in a hornet’s nest. I would, quite frankly, rather poke a stick in my eye.

If you ex-l, are ever looking for a career move, perhaps you should investigate your opportunities as a gossip columnist or a political spin doctor. You already use the tactics - little knowledge, half truths, innuendo, assumptions based on nothing and out and out misinformation.

Somewhere on the site you had listed some names of people who, in your opinion, were underhand, or untruthful, or malicious in their lack of care. Might I suggest that you add your own name to that list?

Jim

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by mr green » 08 May 2008

Jim, no one really cares, truth will out.

just relax brother, take the stress from your mind.

I love you.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 May 2008

Of course "agents and publishers advise against open licenses ... they are all in business to make money of exclusive products!

So why not chose "Artistic License 2.0" which allows "everyone to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but changing it is not allowed"?
jim freidman wrote:Then it was translated into Mandarin by Simon Chau, a social activist among many other things, who is not a BK, but was a guest in Madhuban who saw the performances and was given the book.
Copyright © Simon Chau 2003-6 wrote:Retired professor Simon Chau Siu-cheong has been volunteering for the organization for over 20 years. He said: "I am really fond of their practice. It's simple yet powerful." What impressed him most was that people of all religions were welcome to join. Jayanti explains this, saying: "Spirituality is the same for all human beings, religion is different. Whether you are an atheist or not, it doesn't matter."

Meditation, she says, is essential for reducing stress. "Understand that you are the creator of your own thoughts and emotions, and then you can create peace and be positive. Hongkongers are very busy people. Yet I believe there's an inner thirst for spirituality," she said.
Jim ... could you please tell us;
  • why the BWKSU is promoting it as "Baba's film" to the BK market if it is independent?
    why is the BKWSU charity supporting an "independent" private enterprise with business facilities and marketing services etc?
    what is the Shrimat on Senior sisters handing out references to help certain BKs in their professional careers now?
If you can tell me, I will put it all in context and get back to you. (I mean, I am going to put it all in context anyway but just out of decency, I am trying to allow you an opportunity to straighten your story out).

A 'script editor' is a specific kind of 'writer', usually a member of the production team who takes the original writer's ideas and fixes/changes/trashes them accordingly (in your efforts to lambast me back, you really did not read over my reply). Barbara is crediting with acting 3 roles in "Caged Women", albeit one of them is only a voice on the telephone; secretary (episode 158), Lois Leifenbacker (187), Frances Hunter (335)-(338). Writer on (episode 126), (144), (156), (178), (186), (196), (205), (214), (221), (232), (244), (254), (272). 'Prisoner of Cell Block H' was a scream. The prison sets used to wobble if anyone bumped against them and it became cult gay TV for feature hard lesbians or bisexual women and inspiring an entire genre of transvestite parodies.
Caged Woman-Barbara Ramsay.jpg
Caged Woman-Barbara Ramsay.jpg (18.63 KiB) Viewed 3140 times
BKWSU wrote:UK film premier: Tao of the Traveller – The Seven Keys of Enlightenment
Saturday 19th April, 7:00 – 9:00pm


A stunning new independent film from Australia, directed by Robin Ramsay. Music by Dave Clayton of Simply Red, narrated by Clarke Peters and Lucinda Drayton, with Tamasin Ramsay as the Traveller.

A glorious spiritual adventure: a young woman’s eloquent journey of discovery… filmed in the icy mountains of New Zealand, the rainforests of Australia and the ancient deserts of India. A journey that brings her a new view of the world, rarely experienced except by a handful of poets and the occasional mystic.

VENUE: BKWSU Global Co-operation House 65-69 Pound Lane London NW10 2HH
in The Prisoner it is wrote:Judy is worried at the consequences for her parole, but Erica thinks that Frances may not be willing to risk lodging a complaint as she may be guilty herself of attempt to defraud by passing herself off as Judy.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by jim freidman » 09 May 2008

Answers for Xl
ex-l wrote:So why not chose "Artistic License 2.0" which allows "everyone to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but changing it is not allowed"?”
Why ask me? A good guess would be that it is the best advice they’ve had from professionals and because it their free decision to do so and nothing to do with you, or the BKSWU.
jim freidman wrote:Then it was translated into Mandarin by Simon Chau, a social activist among many other things, who is not a BK, but was a guest in Madhuban who saw the performances and was given the book.
Copyright © Simon Chau wrote:Retired professor Simon Chau Siu-cheong has been volunteering for the organization for over 20 years. He said: "I am really fond of their practice. It's simple yet powerful." What impressed him most was that people of all religions were welcome to join. Jayanti explains this, saying: Meditation, she says, is essential for reducing stress. "Understand that you are the creator of your own thoughts and emotions, and then you can create peace and be positive. Hongkongers are very busy people. Yet I believe there's an inner thirst for spirituality," she said.
In your quote of Simon Chau’s words, he actually says that he is fond of the practise and likes the fact that people of all religions are welcome to join. Jayanti says, "Spirituality is the same for all human beings, religion is different. Whether you are an atheist or not, it doesn't matter."

So he likes the BKs and their practise. That doesn’t change the fact that he published the book with his own money, spent time and energy arranging a ‘launch’ and none of it with the backing of the BKSWU or for the BKWSU but because he found spiritual universal truths to be contained in the book. Ask him!
Jim ... could you please tell us; why the BWKSU is promoting it as "Baba's film" to the BK market if it is independent?
Why are you asking me? I am not the BKWSU. My assumption is that they see it as being about the heart of God’s knowledge and that is a good thing, even though it doesn’t promote the BKWSU or the BKs.
why is the BKWSU charity supporting an "independent" private enterprise with business facilities and marketing services etc?
Why ask me? Do you mean because they asked for and were given an empty room for editing? Is that the “business facilities” you’re asking about? My goodness! How nefarious of them! And marketing services? What does that mean? If you mean that they advertised the fact that they were showing the film – well, surprise, surprise. That’s what people do to get an audience to come to something.
what is the Shrimat on Senior Sisters handing out references to help certain BKs in their professional careers now?
Again and yet again why ask me? It normal to ask for an receive references that are applicable references that apply. Not Shrimat at all, just normal practise, in all walks of life.
A 'script editor' is a specific kind of 'writer', usually a member of the production team who takes the original writer's ideas and fixes/changes/trashes them accordingly (in your efforts to lambast me back, you really did not read over my reply).
Thank you. But no matter how you cut it the editor is not the writer. I have worked in publishing in the past, so I am very well aware of what an editor does. To call the script editor of a piece, the writer of that piece will get you nicely sued. Or maybe you think that when Frank McCourt who received the Pulitzer prize for the book ‘Angela‘s Ashes’ should have told the Pultzer committee to give one to Ruth ... what’s her name, who was his editor from Scribner.
Barbara is crediting with acting 3 roles in "Caged Women", albeit one of them is only a voice on the telephone; secretary (episode 158), Lois Leifenbacker (187), Frances Hunter (335)-(338). Writer on (episode 126), (144), (156), (178), (186), (196), (205), (214), (221), (232), (244), (254), (272). 'Prisoner of Cell Block H' was a scream. The prison sets used to wobble if anyone bumped against them and it became cult gay TV for feature hard lesbians or bisexual women and inspiring an entire genre of transvestite parodies.
Yes, but that is not what you said. What you said was, “Barbara Ramsay aka Caged Woman” . You didn’t say “Prisoner” aka Caged woman. You made it seem as though she was also known as ‘caged woman’, rather than that she wrote for something called Caged Woman.
Tao of the Traveller – The Seven Keys of Enlightenment Saturday 19th April, 7:00 – 9:00pm

A stunning new independent film from Australia, directed by Robin Ramsay. Music by Dave Clayton of Simply Red, narrated by Clarke Peters and Lucinda Drayton, with Tamasin Ramsay as the Traveller. VENUE: BKWSU Global Co-operation House 65-69 Pound Lane London NW10 2HH
... why the BWKSU is promoting it as "Baba's film" to the BK market if it is independent?"
I am not the BKSWU so for a definitive answer ask them, not me. I assume that it is because they also find that it is about the heart of God's knowledge (it is their practise to call God Baba), and even though it doesn't promote BKSWU in any way, they think it is a good thing to be offering people.

JIM

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by jim freidman » 09 May 2008

Dear Mr green,

Sorry if I sounded stressed. I am not. I just know how much work and love goes into the creation of any kind of art. Here we have one that is good and clean and devoid of all the things we are trying to avoid and it gets dumped all over by someone who has neither read the book or seen the film, (though maybe he has by now, I've said it so many times).

The problem is other people read these postings. Innuendo clings and he's made plenty of it . Also I don't understand why, out of all the things that are the real issues, he has chosen to try to discredit TOTT.

He keeps asking me to explain yugya decisions as though I were the yugya. I don't understand why he should ask people to explain other people. Why doesn't he just ask the questions of the people who might have the answers? Anyway, I bear him no ill will.

And to you, thanks for the love. Right back at you - and blessings as well.
Jim

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 May 2008

Not discredit. Just clarify to the world what it is or how it is being used. I don't go for the soft sell BK Raja Yoga stuff.
jim freiman wrote:It is their practise to call God Baba
No, it has been their practise over a long period of time to call both Lekhraj Kirpalani and the channelled entity "God" ... which is the other way around and most certainly not the same thing. A subtle difference but I think you can understand it. Who or what the BKs and the rest of the world consider to be God is VERY different and should not be confused together. This is something I picked up very strongly with ms orange. BKs like to use the 'God' word to cover up who or what the channelled entity is, especially in this type and interfaith service.

Speaking personally, I don't need any apologies. I don't ask for any and I never do. But it encourages confidence in the courage and intuitions to speak out when people come back and say, "you know you were right about that". Its very difficult to offend me. I am still working on my analysis of this situation, in order to offer others an understanding of how things work, and so I will get back to you.

Are you essentially saying that the Brahma Kumari community has developed to the point that it is producing its own 'certified pure' media entertainment industry? To a degree, that statement appears to have some true in it. Historically though, I would say this and Chasing God before it, is just very polished BK service material and I will explain why ... to look at BK service material as BK media entertainment is a new thought for me.

In the old days, everything infused with BK vibrations would be free and "for service", no one would dare take Gyan and dabbling in business with it. But now we have all this copyrighting and trademarking stuff going on and more and more cash registers being installed in the Yugya.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by admin » 09 May 2008

Note of official correspondence to Robin Ramsay, producer, regarding "The Tao of the Traveller" dated March 6th.

No other responses or replies have been received since.
info@brahmakumaris.info wrote:On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 2:16 PM, info@brahmakumaris.info wrote:

Robin,

Your recent movie has been both recommended and provoked discussion on the ethics of adopting other spiritual traditions to promote Gyan on our forum.

We like to check our references, provide informed opinion and encourage discussion between all parties. Can you please provide us with any press releases and production details and details of Saligram Studios? All of the production cast are welcomed to respond to the discussion.

Incidentally, your formmail cgi script on the website is broken making impossible to use.

Thank you
Robin Ramsay wrote:On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 17:59 PM, Robin Ramsay wrote:

Greetings.

Current trailer seems to work OK. Click on pause and wait for the trailer to download if server is slow. New website available soon.

Will get back to you later about discussion and matters. (Tao essentially means 'way' or 'path' only. As in 'Tao of Business Management')

Kind regards

Robin

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by bkti-pit » 09 May 2008

ex-l wrote: In the old days, everything infused with BK vibrations would be free and "for service"
I remember things being sold at cost or with a small profit. I remember Sister Mohini telling us that 5% to 10% profit was tolerable but that the profits were to be used only for the production of new books and cassettes. How did it get from there to more than 1000% profit? Where is the Murli quote supporting this?

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the traveller goes in fear of thieves and robbers

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 May 2008

Jim says the Tao of the Traveller has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BKWSU and the information is unique to the authors/writers/editors etc. OK, Jim, I am asking you personally now - not the BKWSU - which part of the following in NOT BK Gyan or BKWSU related and which part is unique and copyrightable by Barbara Ramsay? I am actually not condemning here ... I am asking "why?" the cover up or disassociation from Brahma Kumaris?

Here is an animated version with Robin and Barbara Ramsay. Barbara gets the credit for being the writer and not the BKWSU. Is it a authorised cover or is it deceptive?



Amongst mention of "losing soul consciousness" and imagery of a bindi soul traveling up to Bindi Shiv, I quickly noted the following.

"Gosh, can I really be a sage too?" "Yes, child. Whatever is mine is yours" (apparently there is no place for Equal Opportunities casting in the BKWSU ... Its a Family Affair).
Barbara Ramsay allegedly wrote:The traveller is the diamond spark ... the soul ...
the traveller is the jewel between the eyes ...
the traveller is you ...

The sage never claims to have a soul ...
the traveller is the soul ...
the soul is the traveller ...
the soul is you ...

Remember who you are and travel light ...

the only companion through time is truth ...
the Lord of Truth in the heart ...
The Lord of Light gives you the seven keys ... the first key is the jewel between the eyes.

Voice of God ... come and know me with your mind.

A dimension outside of time ... golden red light ... union happens ...
It is this that purifies ...

Father and child ... union of silence ... this is Yoga ... the Incorporeal ... your incorporeal ... Father and child ... just for a moment let your thoughts slip into silence ... be still.
For any non-BKs making it this far, this is pure, straight down the line and orthodox Brahma Kumaris meditation commentary that has been used since at least the late 1970s in an audio-visual form. NOTHING specifically new or unique. Typical of an introduction the practise with all the obviously Hinduistic elements that might off put Westerns removed. Even to the point of quoting Murli.
The Tao of the Traveller wrote:The traveller is the diamond spark ... the soul ... simply change your consciousness ... the body dies ... the soul will never pass away ... these three aspects make up the soul ... one in three and three in one ... the ultimate proof of love ... the Lord of Time puts the children ahead of himself ... always ... always .. stand and follow, oh, traveller ... let blind worship end and kneeling finish ...
(There are other "BK diffusion" animations uploaded by the same users.)

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by withheld » 11 May 2008

Hi. I saw this film in Glasgow. It was advertised in the cinema booklet. I thought it was pretty good, especially as its made by amateurs mainly, is not it? But the real pro, David Clayton (keyboards with 'Simply Red') wrote the music which is really something out of the box. I did not see that it promoted the good ole BK number ... it was a bit of something from everywhere ... some film festivals are showing it, and the audience in Glasgow hung about for Q and A with the producer and a guy from India, who I think was the cameraman. I'd probably give it 7/10.

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driedexbk
ex-BK
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Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: It has been over a year that I left the center but still there is a lot of pain in my heart...pain caused by deception. I went in looking to come into grips with my own sense of self and came out with no faith at all. The experience was so bad at times that now I am clear there is no such a god. For that I am grateful. Yet, there were other moments that I would not change for the best of my experiences. I experienced love as I had never imagined! It was a beautiful experience of forbidden love.

Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by driedexbk » 21 May 2008

Here again - more on The Tao of the Traveller:

http://www.taotraveller.com/index.htm

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