The Tao of the Traveller

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fluffy bunny
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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Jul 2008

robinramsay wrote:Regarding Saligram Studios, not a registered company, and the WHOIS London address. As a 70 year old not greatly conversant with IT matters, I asked someone who does to register some domain names we might need for Tao of the Traveller and to look after IT matters that I did not comprehend
Yes, well, we have all had our little joys with the BKWSU IT team.

To the best of my knowledge, there exits a small collection of documents in the British Library taken from the India Office collection. I have been informed that there are some other original documents in a library attached to Oxford University that holds others but I have not seen. I suspect that the BKWSU has also copies, despite its claims to have buried a lot, but despite many high level requests and false promises I have drawn a complete blank there. And, of course, we note that practically every BK prior to last year was in ignorance of the existence of such documents or the contrary nature of them to the current hagiographies and I presume most still are.

I have to admit Robin, that we are somewhat allergic to the usual flannel around here. The effects of spit and polish might have worked wonders to put a sheen on the old boot of the BKWSU but we are looking a lot closer than just the shiny surface here. If you do wish to parade issues, please pay us the respect by continuing to be as accurate and detailed as your first few posts promise. Arjun is correct. I, and I am sure many others, would love to see any early historical documents.
  • When did have these?
    Where did they come from (or where are they held)?
    How did you come to hear of them?
It was simple, quite innocent such as these - and the request that she shares her sources if I was to assist her in her studies - that your daughter fell into a flap about making our correspondence awkward. Nothing more contentious. Perhaps if you can assist us, and have any knowledge of what exists in India, further discussion on this subject can be taken off to the history forum. Do you personally agree, as a majestic story teller even, with the policy of establishing a religion on fictionalised hagiographies and do you think can we expect mature factual histories at any time in the future?

I keep asking "when" because I am aware that the leadership was aware of them and am interested why they did not make them widespread and why they keep pumping out stuff they know is inaccurate. This "sworn to secrecy" aspect of the leadership over the following irks.

As to the 'Tao of the Brahma Kumaris' or 'The Way of the Brahma Kumari Traveller' (... which I offer would be slightly more accurate if less marketable titles ...) I am unfortunately primarily interested in the ongoing financial aspects of BK endeavours and the blurring of borders between individual BK's personal or professional interest and those of the charitable institutions. A trend which appears widespread within the BKWSU these days.

I find these difficult because they appear contrary to Shrimat, Murli and the Maryadas, and yet those same individuals and their products or services are the ones that the Brahma Kumaris leadership use ... extol ... and afford privileges. It is not you and your family that I am interested per se, but the social and philosophical dynamics that the Brahma Kumaris negotiate as they evangelise their religion.

I apologise to you personally, in public, if you find yourself in the uncomfortable position of a 'case study' but my intuition is that you are intelligent enough to see the value of the issues we are raising here. You cannot have spent the better part of your life swearing oaths as a "Captain of the Push" and not be able cope with that. And you have pursued a career in the public eye. If you wont discuss the financial side, as Tamasin suggest to us you would, then perhaps you will engage us in discussion about these ethical aspect from a BK Brahmin perspective? I am not saying it is wrong. I just want to document how the system works and, if there are personal benefits to be had, ensure that all BK followers know how to be cut in on it.

Equally, I hope that you might be able to join us on 'Hello from daughter of BK' where we discuss the BK system exploiting followers for their Wills and their attitudes towards family inheritances. As a Father and BK, I would be interested to read your experience of this.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by bansy » 01 Jul 2008

Dear robinramsay,

Thank you kindly for the offer. However, a BK friend of mine has a copy of TToTT for me to pick up as I asked for it about 6 weeks ago. I should be off soon once my trip iterinery is set. Maybe get some toli too !
So looking forward to it.

(Aside : I have had troubles with formats/language in the past with BKs/PBKs sending me media, so to get around the NTSC/PAL, the movie was converted into a format so it could be played on Windows Media Player. I think the format is mpeg or avi. So I usually play on the notebook. Once, my TV's DVD stopped working because there was some problem with the format codes from different countries changing the DVD setting. IT is crazy :D )

Thanks again

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by robinramsay » 02 Jul 2008

Hi ex-l,

Good morning. If you send your address Saligram will happily send you a DVD of TOTT, as offered. Given your strong opinions about the film, it would probably be a good idea if you saw it.

We are doing our best to have the film viewable on the site, or for download, but there are tricky things about these cyber matters to deal with. Well they are certainly tricky from where I sit, and every expert has a different solution, it seems.

Hi bansy,

Have a great trip. Glad you have a copy of TOTT, but hope its not generationally inferior: directors horrorshow. Love to hear your thoughts and feelings. Yes, the world DVD carve up is not helpful to the purchaser, as its not only systems but ALSO regions. Just for your and others information, as I have had a number of queries about it all, the following may help:

PAL system is usually Europe,India, Australia and Indonesia and parts of Asia, NTSC system is North and South America, Phillipines and other parts of Asia. I cannot recall Russia or China. A DVD player will usually only play the system operating in the country of its purchase.

Regions. TOTT is Region 0 which means TOTT can play any where in the world, but still depending if its PAL system or NTSC system. But most DVDs are regionally contained, and the world is carved up into 4 Regions. That is if you buy a DVD in the UK it probably won't play in Australia even though they are both PAL. But you CAN deregionalise your DVD player etc etc. (But usually it will play on your computer) ... Phew!

Good morning Arjun,

Greetings. I'll visit the History section on this site very soon, and get back to you. Given the determined research that people on the site have pursued, i doubt that I would have much that's new to offer. Also the operative word is 'had', not 'have', though you have encouraged me to search around.

Kind regards

Robin

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Jul 2008

robinramsay wrote:We are doing our best to have the film viewable on the site, or for download, but there are tricky things about these cyber matters to deal with. Well they are certainly tricky from where I sit, and every expert has a different solution, it seems ... I'll visit the History section on this site very soon, and get back to you. Given the determined research that people on the site have pursued, i doubt that I would have much that's new to offer. Also the operative word is 'had', not 'have', though you have encouraged me to search around.
When you are ready ... Youtube and Google Video are the easiest and free options. And good enough for review purposes. As I said to BK Jim above, my questions are not about the film itself but the motivations, context and issues surrounding it. You are a gifted, intelligent and experienced man and a Westerner with insight about India. I respect that. I am sure that you can differentiate between the two aspects (movie versus context) and offer a lot to others discussion your own experiences within the BKWSU, especially involvement with the leadership.

You mentioned you have, or had at some point, a load of old original material from the early days of the Yugya.
  • Could you tell us where it came from, what it comprised of and if you still have them? We are trying to build up an accessible, overall picture that the organization itself does not offer its followers. My conscience tells me that this the spiritual way to do things ... not invest in the usual PR spin doctoring.
The other issues we discussed here are obviously still open for discussion. I am glad you found a warm welcome from other members of this forum which at least proves it has more than one face.
  • Do you know anything about the new film the BKWSU says it is planning on the early days of the movement?
Personally, I cant work out if it is a one to one PR campaign to drawn back in all the old Sindhis and act as damage limitation or if it is going to be yet another hagiography and doctored to match the rest of their PR.

Thanks.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by john morgan » 08 Jul 2008

First I'd like to thank Robin and the traveller team for sending me a copy of Tao of the Traveller, I have just finished my first viewing of the DVD. I will comment once more after other viewings (if still alive and not banned) to which I may bring a different perspective.

Second, what I liked about the DVD. The Australian and New Zealand locations were on occasion very beautiful and the interaction of wildlife with Tamasin due possibly to some very good editing made me smile. The vocal content is diluted Gyan though many truths were spoken, the words "sage" and "traveller" were often used. Gyan aims at a transformation in consciousness and a spiritual world view, this topic seems a very difficult one to convey on DVD. There was a moment near the beginning which really worked for me, the rest of the DVD was watchable. I liked the music, it was very good.

Now we get to the really hard bit, number three. Throughout the DVD there was an overvoice saying continually profound things, this voice was for me somewhat irksome. I thought I knew how I was supposed to respond but I did not want to, not today at any rate. I really do question the wisdom of putting a profound overvoice into this DVD but have not yet considered whether Tamasin's words alone would be enough or enough with slight modification.

I suspect that TToTT will not bring hoards of people flocking to Baba's door because its seeming profundity, for me, assumes too much of the viewer. An atheist or agnostic would quickly walk out the door and a Bhuddist think it naive. A Christian would probably stay to the end but a Muslim might invoke a holy war. ;) It does not engage the viewer as much as it should though I would like to eat my words after a second viewing. The reason I say this is that I like or at any rate think I like both Robin and Tamasin and atoning for a forum that I occassionally contribute to treating them and their friends in the way it has would not be out of place. This is an innocent DVD and people have in no small measure contributed their time, talents, bodies and wealth in its making, even wet feet did not halt production of this constructive work of art :D . It is a naive instrument of service and I think could not be used to lure people into the despicable BK spiders web of deceit and lies simply because, for me, such a web does not exist. Could I or the people I know have done better? I don't think so.. so credit where its due and thanks to The Travellers!

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Jul 2008

I have only heard the promo but the hunky voice is surely Clarke Peters. I have no idea what his BK status is now but he has been in and out of the BKs for a long time ... and is, of course, quite famous.

Really nice guy, not stupid, very talented, fairly "earthly-wise" I would say. Being black in this world is not necessarily the easiest ticket.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by robinramsay » 12 Jul 2008

Hi John,

Greetings. Thanks for posting your thoughts about TOTT. And for viewing it. And your kind words.

I was interested to see the reactions to TOTT at Film Festivals, particularly as there are probably a good lot of Atheists/ Agnostics among the fraternity. People of many persuasions see it, but no-one walks out...directors look anxiously for such early warnings... and most people stay for a discussion afterwards, at both cinemas and public programs in PBKIVV centres.

Screenings of TOTT at FF are interesting because to be accepted the film is judged on content, credibility and execution. Filmakers at festivals are really supportive of each other, because everyone knows that most films that get funded don't get finished , and most films that are finished don't get screened: at least in public. So its some kind of miracle for a film to be chosen and to be there!

To be honest, there was not much discussion of content at Fallbrook, though the director of the San Diego Tourist Association wrote to say he thought it was the most important film at that Festival. Certainly the discussion afterwards was more to do with filmmaking technicalities... dos and don'ts of choosing locations, managing exteriors, what cameras were used, how much did it cost and post-production matters.

Also filmakers will look at a film and be interested in the film as a film and how it all comes together as a Total Movie Experience. Well, so will most of the audience we would hope.

At regular cinema showings the pre PR makes clear that viewers should not expect that TOTT is some kind of Antipodean Thelma and Louise, for instance. And indeed the poetic script is informed by Barbara Bossert's 40 year spiritual journey, and a deep belief in God, so many, but not all, Buddhists would have a challenge there, though other faiths don't seem to.

As the writer Stephanie Dowrick observed, Tao of the Traveller is ' intensely personal, while at the same time celebrating our universal journey'. Which is really what we were aiming for.

So that's it from him... I was going to send this to you personally John, but then I thought your posted observations deserved a posted response. Apologies if its goes on rather. :oops:

Regards,

Robin.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by john morgan » 12 Jul 2008

Hello Robin,

You are making me smile. I am so glad the film is doing so well, it certainly deserves it. the more egg on my face in this context the better.

Kindest regards,

John

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by chai bhai » 12 Jul 2008

hello there, i just read the last few postings and you two - robinramsay and john morgan are like old buddies walking along the riverside together chatting about the good old days, somehow. and john, i've never seen anyone with egg on their face look quite so delightful!
thanks to you both for bringing your characters to this forum.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by robinramsay » 12 Jul 2008

John,

Goodness no egg at all suggested or implied...or custard pies or banana skins. Just interest and pleasure that after 16 long pages of chat AROUND the film Tao of the Traveller on the site, you wrote a thoughtful and well considered post for us all to read after SEEING it. Can one ask for more? I don't think so.

regards

Robin

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by john morgan » 12 Jul 2008

Hello Robin,

The idea of egg was of my own creation, there are only banana skins here.

I can clearly see that your words were factual and look forward to hearing more news.

This thread is quite peaceful now that the film is becoming available. It now seems right and proper that ms.orange's past role as perceived by some on this forum be recast in a far more favourable light. This of course is my view, perhaps other creatures in this menagerie will not concur, lets see..

Kindest regards to a gentleman,

John

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by bansy » 12 Jul 2008

Traveller stories are not new.

I mentioned in a previous post in this thread about Paulo Coelho, and have just discovered that his best seller the Alchemist is being made into a movie, the main actor plays Morpheus in Matrix. I think the general public will catch onto this movie very easily, and also as already being a best seller, many people are already aware of such spirituality and such "traveller" movie.

For those who do not know the Alchemist, it is about Santiago, well-educated and who had intended to be a priest. A desire for travel, however, prompted him to become a shepherd instead. He's contented, but then he dreams twice about hidden treasure, an a seer tells him to follow the dream's instructions: got to Egypt's pyramids, where he fill find a treasure. Santiago makes it to the pyramids and there learns where his fortune is actually to be found.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by tom » 12 Jul 2008

john morgan,
What are those children called in the elementary school, who when they find a new buddy they call the old buddies "creatures" and whimper that the old ones have thrown to their faces imaginary eggs and banana skins? Wow.What a character? You made a fair comment about the film you have seen and have got no response because nobody except you in this forum seems to have seen the film yet. You missed all of the main points of the so many pages discussions.

Dear robin,
I am really sorry,i don't want to spoil your well earned intoxication from the good critics about your film but you have also missed the point of the 16 pages long discussions.I have been reading all posts.It was in a nutshell all about "Who invested for the production? And how much ? Who will get the income? " Such a simple question which could be answered from you or from your daughter who came to the forum to represent you during the chat, was not answered from your side and through provocative intervening of newcomers and your daughters promising but reluctant attitude for help prolonged the chat so long.You answered the question too late, at the end, but only 1/3 of it.
robinramsay wrote
John,
Goodness no egg at all suggested or implied...or custard pies or banana skins. Just interest and pleasure that after 16 long pages of chat AROUND the film Tao of the Traveller on the site, you wrote a thoughtful and well considered post for us all to read after SEEING it.
Have i missed something robin? Have you sent to this forum during the discussions voluntarily one DVD to the Downloads section for us to SEE it and have we all rejected to see it? So you are writing this comment to john morgan whom you have send one copy. But now at this point after reading your two old buddies posts, i have lost all my taste to see the movie which will be screened this week in our center.

regards and good wishes

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by bansy » 12 Jul 2008

Missed out in the previous post ; only a mere 65 million copies of the Alchemist book have been sold.

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post by john morgan » 12 Jul 2008

Well little Tommie,

There you are at it again. Why not wait until the story unfolds? At least then you will have something more tangible to trash.
Your speciality at present seems to be putting others down. How about creating a little encouragement or support or even inspiration now and then? Why ignore those aspects of yourself? They may make you a little happier - and give your posts a better feeling for those that read them. Fair comment? You decide!

Kindest regards,

John

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