Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

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bansy
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Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by bansy » 11 Sep 2008

I was reading up on Elizabeth Kubler Ross.

This could be a difficult thread to talk about. But I think this forum has not come up with this situation, as it can be quite personal.

When there is a loss, it is in these times when each person has a link with the person who is about to leave /has left that, call it karmic settlement if you wish, many thoughts go on.

I wonder how many people here have dealt with loss(es) in someone lokik close to them. (If you haven't, my guess is that you will one day).

Please do not give theoretical lectures about Gyan. If you have never dealt with a loss of someone in your family, you will be talking theoretical in such case ... this thread is about actual experience. So please don't preach if you have never practised.

I find that during situations when a close member of your family dies, there are many sorrows involved, but each person takes it a different way. Some also see some happiness. There could also be differences in western and easter cultural-Bhakti practices. Whilst I cannot interfere with each person's relationship with the deceased, I find it disturbing that others in the circle begin to point to others for the cause of their own regret, blaming others rather than looking at themselves to clear their regret.

Gyan teaches to reduce and eliminate karmic settlement. It teaches not to think of others and other relatives. However, is it really possible to not think of other relatives ? Has anyone been in a situation when someone close passes away and you cannot think of their feelings and emotions ? How concerned to be with the sensitivities of those who do not have "spiritual knowledge" ? What do BKs do when their lokik(s) pass away ? If anyone would care to share. I suppose if you are fully surrendered, you wouldn't even need to attend the funeral, or can your own conscience allow that ?

Please don't preach if you have never practised. i.e. no Murli points unless you have personally practised those points in such a situation. If you have experienced loss in someone close AND practised the Murli points, then that would be useful.

Also note : this thread is about the passing of a LOKIK member, not another BK or PBK or otherwise.

Thanks.

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Re: Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by mbbhat » 11 Sep 2008

bansy wrote:this thread is about the passing of a LOKIK member, not another BK or PBK or otherwise.
What if a Bk's family member who had been a Bk turns to be a ex-BK, PBK, anti Bk etc? Can it be a similar situation due to the mental shock?

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Re: Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by paulkershaw » 11 Sep 2008

I experienced the loss of my mother whilst I was in Gyan but I also know today that my own spiritual power and 'ability' at the time aided her passing (she was very ill) and I am thankful for this experience. However, it's a long story. What remains is a strong sense of self, of my own abilities and of course, this is confirmed in many instances in life and I see this all being synchronised and right. Even the fact that I entered Gyan and then left at specific times in my life feels totally correct, but this of course is all in a state of "looking back now - I understand" so whatever I am experiencing at the moment must surely been the same vein. How I would have dealt with all of it if I were not in Gyan I do not know. Pre-Gyan I was a mess on many levels.

During my mothers passing I remember being struck with mourning and grief on some level but it never manifested into anything that I couldn't deal with, in fact it probably made me stronger, spiritually speaking. It also made me realise though that the role a mother plays in one's life is very important (we worked together as well). I left Gyan just over a year after her passing as I had to make a choice between business and being in Gyan. The family business won and is still going strong and I doubt very much if I could have handled a Gyani lifestyle and a full time business at the same time.

Strangely enough, her passing also allowed me to experience and realise that I was a trance channel / medium (whatever we can call it) for Spirit, which I still work with today. And it went against the 'teachings' in many ways. By the way in case anyone wonders if he really exists or not, it also confirmed for me that Dada Lekjrah /Brahma Baba truly exists in the spirit realms, having been there in a trance state at the time of my mothers death with him and my own mother. So I have come to terms with the experience that as someone 'lokik' in you life leaves, something else also opens up and it has been of great benefit for me to work with this process these last few years.

Reading the word 'lokik' I now begin to wonder as to the psychological power behind the separation of one's self and identity on different levels, i.e. as a BK one used to refer to one's blood family as 'the lokiks' - however, does this definition create another deep-rooted structure that places the BKWSU interests above all else? Is the death of a 'lokik' member of the family seen to be of lesser importance by a pukka BK.

Off hand, I'd say that of course it is. Any other viewpoints or experiences from others about this?

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Re: Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by yogi108 » 11 Sep 2008

Yeah been there twice with the same individual that is my dad.. once when he was diagnosed with Cancer.. I remember writing to him that it was because of his Karma and that email apparently upset him quite a bit...

But then I was in Gyan teens at that time ... He did follow Gyan, based on my inspiration, met with Baba in Madhuban ... took a lot of benefit from different BK tapes like " The power of the Mind" etc ...

He left body and, in fact, I had not met with him for more than 2 years ... I got this call at 2.00 am in the morning from my sister that he had left ... opened my eyes ... lit up a candle ... a few tears came ... more from the fact that he will no longer be there to communicate meaning no more emails, no more phone calls etc ...

But after that I was able to meditate for him since he had left whilst being asleep and did not know what actually happened ... So that was good service for him ...

I did not prescribe to asking the Yagya to find out where he was born and stuff like that because on you have to pay for that ... and second goes against the practice of having settled accounts why again re-initiate it.

Gyan did help me overcome the loss and it was a good experience overall.

But I am against eating halwa and stuff like that ...

Yogi

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Re: Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by bkti-pit » 11 Sep 2008

Is the death of a 'lokik' member of the family seen to be of lesser importance by a pukka BK?
As far as I am concerned the answer is no and, in my opinion, someone who interprets Gyan in this way is, to put it in BK terms, under the influence of the evil spirit of "insanity".

I had been a few years in Gyan when I lost my mother and it helped me a lot. I had been called by my family members after she had been taken to an hospital intensive care unit following an heart attack. I got there late evening and relieved my family members who went for rest and I sat with her through the night. She had remained unconscious and was plugged onto some respiratory assistance equipment and some kind of heart pulse monitor, etc.

I do not remember having any kind of special powerful Yoga. Just having feelings of love for her, taking her hand , gently touching her head ... whilst trying to hang on to my inner core of serenity and not let myself being dragged into bottomless sadness. I did pretty well and after a few hours she became conscious and I was able to talk to her. She could not easily respond because she had those tubes in her nose and mouth. I was not trying to give her Gyan, etc, which I know some BKs do. I was just being her loving son.

Early morning when the nurse came, she saw that mom was doing well and disconnected the respirator and said that if everything went well they would remove the tubes and all later, which they did. But when they tried to wash her a bit and turn her on this side and then that side, it seems that this was too much of an effort for her and she had another attack. They sent me out and here came the emergency response team ... This is when my family members returned. We were allowed back in the room later but she was unconscious again.

The doctor told us that after that second attack there was a high probability that her brain had been permanently damaged and that she would likely remain with possibly serious handicaps if she survived. We thought: "What is the point to try keep her alive?" But the doctor said that we never know and that he had seen cases where a few months later the patient is seen taking a walk with his/her grandchild ...

Thirty minutes later my mom had a third attack. They took us out again but this time were not able to save her. They let us back in after taking out all their equipment. We had long minutes of intimate loving silence together with her, feeling that she must have still being around.

My family members thanked me for my not being affected too much, that it had helped them to cope. It is not that I had no sorrow but I was able not to be wiped out by it. I had not done that well a few years earlier when my Father died. Now, was it the greatness of spiritual knowledge or simply repression or suppression? I do not know but I do know that almost twenty years of spiritual practice later I am vulnerable and beyond sorrow and feelings of loss.

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Re: Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Sep 2008

Just a quick question, again about something not discussed here. Are you willing to open up the topic to death and dying?

People talk about 'home births', I played a minor support role in a natural 'home death' this year. Obviously not my own ... or else would have heard the sigh of relief emanating from BK centers internationally. By "natural", I mean one without all the complexities of hospitals and treatments, just a death from old age and had some observations and questions about the actual process.

It might also be worth summarizing Kubler Ross's position on death and dying.

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Re: Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by joel » 11 Sep 2008

My mother-in-law had a stroke at age 92. Family members arranged to be with her every day at the hospital. The stroke was severe, and the subsequent swelling wiped out most of her right hemisphere. She was in a coma for a week, stayed in the hospital about two months. That was a terrible time. All the patients in the ward of that gloriously clean, pastel-colord facility were wasting and dying. It was also a magical time, seeing her come back to life: at the beginning she couldn't talk, couldn't swallow safely, had forgotten how to chew and eat.

My wife and I supported her health at the hospital, then brought her home, where we took care of her for three years. She died at home while we were away on our first vacation together in three years. She choked during a meal, moments after our first phone call to see if she was okay. It was time. I accepted it, easily. That three years together was a gift. After the stroke she had been childlike, talkative, full of memories and stories. She was brilliant. We doted on her completely. She teased and entertained all the therapists that came to visit her.

After she had recovered a bit, she used to sit at the table and eat with us, but the time of her death, she preferred to eat while lying in bed. We could see she was less energetic. She had several near-choking episodes before, so we weren't all that surprised. Her death was harder for my wife, even tho she too accepted it was time for her mother to go.

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Re: Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by paulkershaw » 12 Sep 2008

Just in case my post in this thread above sounded a little 'off' - I do wish to also share that the BK 'family' at the time supported me 100% during my mother's death and stood with me all the way. I remember one of them commenting on me "smiling" all the way through her funeral. It's a life, eh?

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Re: Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by tom » 12 Sep 2008

paulkershaw wrote:I do wish to also share that the BK 'family' at the time supported me 100% during my mothers death and stood with me all the way.
They do this Paul. Not a big deal.

All religious communities do this small gesture in the funerals. Otherwise they have to close the shop.

But they ignore it when a baby is born in one of the BK families. They are supporting death, opposing births.

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Re: Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Sep 2008

tom wrote:They are supporting death, opposing births.
Well, they make money out of deaths ... and births are the mark of deep shame and failure. Is to experience sadness or express grief, either privately or publicly, not seen as evidence of weakness ... especially to attachment? Or at the very least, proof that one was shamefully not free of karma.

Sometimes I find it difficult to know when what I am feeling is entirely my own feelings or I am picking up feelings of those around me. I think it is really quite easy to "detach" and eat halva ... but inhuman. I also find it insane especially when practised towards "mere" lokiks as a sign of faithfulness but then all sorts of emotions are expressed when a big name BK dies. As part of leaving the umbrella of the BKWSU, I have made effort to feel and allow emotions.

The most influential death I have experienced, in fact it was before the actual death, left me literally suffocated when I "realised" looking at their home and belongings that that individual was going to never come back again and the person I knew, loved and had carried me at times was gone. I had to go about opening windows and doors in their home just to breath. For a long time after their death, they still existed, and we still communicated, in my dreams ... were those just "need fulfillment" projections or psychic realities? The forced "unplugging" or de-cording of loosing that person, took a long time to get over, 2 months, two years may be.

I never felt the anger of loss that Kubler-Ross talks about. Regret about not having done more sooner, yes. There is no arguing with death. Once it comes, it is all over. A mini "too late sign".

The issue of "finalities" is important and difficult for us to mentally grasp. Most of us live in a dream where there is "always tomorrow" to do some and our artificial realities; TV, movies, the internet, can be switched on and off and replayed at will. War, pestilence, plague, starvation are all a long way away and witnessed only artificially.

A "good death", as in a deeply heartfelt loss, is a very good reminder of the value of existence and importance of this time ... now. As important as a "good heartbreak". Personally, I do not think individuals should be numb or hypnotised to them. I think they should be felt and we should be changed by them.

As a BK I was "hypnotised" to them. I was a "halva eater". It was wrong I am afraid. Yes, humans do go too far. I have heard amongst friends of upsetting scenes of hysteria at the point of death which are only disturbing and damaging to all, most of all the dying. I also think that there are elements of deep unresolved irrationalism and obsessions obvious in the dying process, e.g. the unwillingness of relatives to let people go, the over commercialisation, almost competitiveness of "keeping them alive" as if each extra day was gold medal prize ... they are not. I do think we should be more at ease with death.

But given that death is allegedly about "the soul" leaving the body, I always wondered how and why, in a natural death, the body (sometimes) get so unnaturally cold towards the final moments. The BKWSU does not document "the spirit", as in the expression of subtle energy or expansion of the soul through the body and does not concern its self with documenting dying.

As another aside, possibly for another topic, has ANY major BK ever been known to die in a "yogi fashion", i.e. knowing their time of death, preparing and just letting go?

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Re: Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by bkti-pit » 12 Sep 2008

ex-l wrote:Is to experience sadness or express grief, either privately or publicly, not seen as evidence of weakness ... especially to attachment? Or at the very least, proof that one was shamefully not free of karma.
What about Dadi Prakashmani's death? So many were expressing grief, even tears, and could not let go even after she had died, even though we all knew it was going to happen. Where were all the halva eaters?

Coming back to my mother's death, I would like to mention that I was very appreciative of the medical staff. I was very aware of the heaviness of the atmosphere and that whilst daily facing death and also highly emotionally shaken families, they really did try their best in every way to relieve pain and suffering and maintain a lot of respect for each one's dignity.

As far as attitude towards death, I have always been uncomfortable not so much around death itself but around the social and religious processes surrounding it. Some of it may be the obsessiveness, irrationality and hysteria mentioned by ex-l but also the suppression of feelings, the unnatural, the decorum, the fake and artificial ...

When my Father died, he had a ceremonious funeral. My mom did it for the crowd but she had insisted that she had none of it for herself and we were happy to respect that. The moments we had with her during and after the whole process were very real, intimate and precious.

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Re: Dealing with Loss of a Lokik Family Member

Post by fluffy bunny » 13 Sep 2008

bkti-pit wrote:What about Dadi Prakashmani's death? So many were expressing grief, even tears, and could not let go even after she had died, even though we all knew it was going to happen. Where were all the halva eaters?
It was as ridiculous as "celebrating" 70 years of existence ... both would appear to signal complete systemic failure.

"Lokiks" with "lokiks" (non-BKs to non-BKs) I feel should be encouraged to feel and express the full the emotions. "Alokiks" to "alokiks" (BKs to non-BKs), to have such emotions is an illicit as a sexual or romantic relationship within Gyan ... for which, of course, they are a substitute for.

The other thing about dealing with the losing of a lokik family member is that "on the way", folks that have not been through it have no idea of how time consuming, exhausting and expensive it can be. For this reason along, it takes a long time afterwards to heal from. The "cording" issue, the psychic bonds that connect us, are something else to look at or deal with. Just because someone is "dead" does not mean that they are gone from us or disconnected.

It is also fairly standard spiritualistic lore that in the run up to the death, and even after, especially if there has been a long illness, the dying can drain energy from the living. This is something that should be accounted for and taken care off, e.g. the carers need to make sure they are properly nourished.

Are you asking from a BK point of view, bansy? As in, "how should a BK react to the death of a physical family members?" of "how have you reacted as a BK to the death of a physical family members?" Is this something personal you are going through that you want to discuss?

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