Picture Of Shiva Baba

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john
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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by john » 15 Dec 2008

warrior wrote:
Another point that came to my mind is that if this current PBK ShivBaba turns up to be the true one and the correct way to remember Shiv (the diamond) in Veerendra Dev Dixit’ body what happens then? Because it is so difficult for us to grasp the idea of one human seen as God - so if he will be revealed as such so my doubts will be turning into a regret stage for failing to foresee this.
Also vica versa, if one sees Virendra Dev Dixit as the Chariot but he is not then there will be big regret.
We have to use our own intelligence on all points, even Virendra Dev Dixit says this and my intelligence tells me too many points of PBKs go against original Murli.

Do we change ourselves to fit in with Murli/Shrimat or do we re-interpret Murli to fit what we want to believe?

At this point in time I think Virendra Dev Dixit is doing the latter and PBKs are loyally following, whether it tallies with Murli or not.

Sakar Murli 06/03/04
The home of the soul is the land of peace. Children, you understand that you souls reside in the great element of light
You understand you will leave your bodies and return home and that you will then come down here again.
Peace will be experienced in the land of the element of light, and there will also be peace and happiness here in this world. This world is distinct from the element of light. The element of light is beyond the moon and the stars. There is nothing of this world there. It is called the world of silence. You leave your bodies and go into that world of silence. Children, also remember that and so you are now preparing yourselves to return there.

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by andrey » 15 Dec 2008

Then may be the discussion would be on the need of a Chariot at all. Let's now leave aside any possible Chariot. There is no mention in the Murlis of remembering a point of light without a Chariot. Even when it is said to remember the home, the Supreme Soul used to be in a Chariot. So is there a need of Chariot or not? The PBKs points are to prove the need of a corporeal Chariot that otherwise Gods task is not Gods task. Only he can do his own task practically, to bestow knowledge, to purify etc. And the Murlis go along with this idea, that the Father has to come etc. For the BKs this is not needed, because they think he works through many. For the PBKs he works through one only. So how it is about you, John, how do you think is there a need for corporeal Chariot for the Supreme Soul, or can he work directly from the home, without the need to come in a body, or if he works through someone, does he work through one or through many?

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by shivshankar » 15 Dec 2008

Guys. Just through out for a second you thoughts and look to the situation from outside. We have God, we have an object for meditation. We also know that we receive power directly from God. Why should I concentrate on something else except source? There is no logic in keeping unnecessery objects in mind during meditation.

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by andrey » 15 Dec 2008

What is this God and object then? The difference comes that for some it is incorporeal (there is no argue here) in corporeal, for some it is only incorporeal point of light. So based on this there will be difference in our concentration. If we don't know exactly where is this home above, where will our intellect go?

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by shivshankar » 15 Dec 2008

It is all just limits in your conscious. You are the soul (just energy). God is the Soul (just another energy). Remember Him in the form He offers to us. Point of light. If you remember Him (Soul, point of light) in a body it means that you concentrate on material things also. If you remember Him in Brahma, it means that you concentrate on subtle things also(because BB is in Subtle Region). But if you remember (meditate on) Him in His original form it means that you concentrate on unlimited things only.

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by andrey » 15 Dec 2008

What is there unlimited in a point of light? Only a point of light is nothing. Without a body the soul is nothing. Unlimited is the stage that the soul is whilst in the body, that it is not limited to the body, it has no awareness of the body. Otherwise all the souls that stay in Paramdham for 4900 years, or that are there now there are they also unlimited? It is the knowledge that is unlimited and concerns the 3 aspects of time, that knowledge can also be given through the body. Subtle Region is also nothing, it is said like this in the Murli. It concerns the subtle stage that the soul is in whilst in the body. Brahma Baba is in such a stage wlist entering into some body.

We are said to practice the stages - corporeal, subtle, incorporeal in 1 sec. Then when we do this do we leave the body and travel through the regions or does only our mind-set change. So unlimited is a stage of mind, subtle also is stage of mind. There never used to exist any other form of God and any other type of remembance other than a point of light in a corporeal body. It is only a newly made up method from someone. We are also thought about seing others as souls like brothers, to see the star in the middle of the forehead, when we do this, do we forget to see the body, does it dissapear. The material eyes see the body whilst the subtle mind sees the subtle soul.

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by shivshankar » 16 Dec 2008

Dear Andrey. I hope you will understand everything someday. One sugestion: don't consider that you know the ultimate truth. The full true picture (knowledge) of this life (drama) we will have only in the last moment. Now we are studying and exploring. So our mind should be as much open as possible. BK philosophy as well as PBK is limited. They are not religions, but have much in common with religions. The more widely you will look at this world the more understanding you will get.

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by andrey » 16 Dec 2008

The BKs and PBKs are religions in its full sense. There is nothing wrong with religion. In the Gita also it is said that I come when there is degradation of religion to destroy all the false religions and establish one true one.

There is also another view to whatever you suggest, If everytime we know something we think there is something more to learn, we will never know the ultimate truth. The ultimate truth is only now, whatever i know now is the ultimate truth for me for the moment. When it changes or my mind changes it changes, there is nothing wrong with this, my perspective broadens. At the end it could be totally different. We don't know in advance what we don't know. When we learn we come to know.

Why not understand one day. Everyone will understand one day to the best of his own capacity. It is not the problem if we have different understanding, it is inevitable. It is that some claim to have reached higher level of understanding in comparison to others. When everyone reaches his own full potential there will be some agreement, some equality although everyone will be by his own self with his own individual understanding.

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by shivshankar » 17 Dec 2008

Dear Andrey, under ultimate truth i mean not my or his or yours understanding, but things as they are. If I would consider information in my head as ultimate, I'll never know how it is going on indeed. Untill I am not fully soulconscious - I keep doubts in knowledge. Just for progress.

Nevertheless everyone has his own wayhome.

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by andrey » 18 Dec 2008

We will always perceive the ultimate truth through the filter of our own subjective understanding. Th ultimate truth itself is the understanding of one subject that is the Supreme Soul. The more our understanding tallies with this, the more our stage is closer to his the closer we are to the ultimate truth.

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by andrey » 22 Dec 2008

These are points from the night class 23.12.58 (Murli pre 1965)

"We don't accept any human guru. Ours is one true guru who comes in one Chariot."

"Are you lovers of almighty Baba above or in his Chariot? Or of both? Surely one has to be lover of both. In the intellect it will stay that he is in this Chariot."

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by andrey » 23 Dec 2008

regarding the need of corporeal Chariot points from Murli 25-9-98

"There is also worship of Shiv, so surely he will come is not it? Without organs what will he do when he comes?"

"(They) understand keeping so much love and regard in Baba to be very hard. (they) understand he is incorporeal (nirakar). They say this is his Chariot, what we will do with him? We will remember the incorporeal. Good, show by going to the lap of the incorporeal! Eat with the incorporeal, drink, why do you come to this one?"

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by shivshankar » 23 Dec 2008

Why are you trying to proof? If you satisfied just follow your theory and be happy.

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by andrey » 25 Dec 2008

Proofs are needed till case closes.

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Re: Picture Of Shiva Baba

Post by john » 29 Dec 2008

Revised Sakar Murli 03/02/04
You now have to become soul conscious and remember the one Father. Some effort is required. People remember their worldly guru so much. They even keep an image of him. There is a big difference between the image of Shiva and the image of a human being. There is the difference of day and night. Those people wear a locket with a picture of their guru. Their husbands don’t like it when they wear the picture of someone else. Yes, if you wear an image of Shiva, everyone will like that because He is the Supreme Father. You should have His image. He is the One who makes you a garland around His neck.
Here it is saying husbands won't like the image of someone else, but if it's an image of Shiva they will be OK.
It also says
There is a big difference between the image of Shiva and the image of a human being.There is the difference of day and night.
Is the image of Virendra Dev Dixit any different from other people...no.

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