Why not go straight into a baby Chariot ?

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bansy
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Why not go straight into a baby Chariot ?

Post by bansy » 13 Dec 2008

Why does the Supreme Soul come into a Chariot of an adult, rather than straight into a Chariot of a new born baby ?

The Supreme Soul will therefore "take over control" (excuse the commanding situation) the baby's own soul, and thus there is no interference of the Chariot's soul with the Supreme Soul. Unlike that of Lekhraj Kirpalani or Virendra Dev Dixit ? You will not get mixed up versions of Sakar Murlis being narrated by either Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) nor Father Shiva.

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Re: Why not go straight into a baby Chariot ?

Post by tete » 13 Dec 2008

Bansy,

Fascinating concept, a bit like the Dalai lama, in which everyone says it is the reincarnation...etc. So, is there an official line why the BK medium takes on an adult 'Chariot'? Also, at what age does the medium become the 'Chariot'?

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Re: Why not go straight into a baby Chariot ?

Post by joel » 13 Dec 2008

Bansy,

Your question is one that is often taken up in classes by Seniors in Madhuban. If the question is fresh for you, does that mean that you heard the common explanation and still feel the question is alive in you? Or is it the first time for you to consider this?

BTW, this is my first post in the BK/PBK side of the forum.

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Re: Why not go straight into a baby Chariot ?

Post by john » 13 Dec 2008

bansy wrote:Why does the Supreme Soul come into a Chariot of an adult, rather than straight into a Chariot of a new born baby ?

The Supreme Soul will therefore "take over control" (excuse the commanding situation) the baby's own soul, and thus there is no interference of the Chariot's soul with the Supreme Soul. Unlike that of Lekhraj Kirpalani or Veerendra Dev Dixit ? You will not get mixed up versions of Sakar Murlis being narrated by either Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) nor Father Shiva.
Firstly, the Supreme Soul can have no direct influence over a souls Karma and destination, even Brahma Baba pointed out how difficult it was for him to have remembrance even though Shiva was with him. So Shiva did nothing directly for Brahma Baba it was all his own efforts that enabled his transformation.

Secondly Shivas main job is to narrate knowledge, with which a soul has the information to transform his/her own life. A baby obviously can narrate nothing.

If Shiva did use a new born as a Chariot, at what age would he be taken seriously or listened to? It would be a lot of wasted years and Shiva is only here for a limited time.

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Re: Why not go straight into a baby Chariot ?

Post by bansy » 13 Dec 2008

john wrote:Firstly, the Supreme Soul can have no direct influence over a souls Karma and destination, even Brahma Baba pointed out how difficult it was for him to have remembrance even though Shiva was with him. So Shiva did nothing directly for Brahma Baba it was all his own efforts that enabled his transformation.

Secondly Shivas main job is to narrate knowledge, with which a soul has the information to transform his/her own life. A baby obviously can narrate nothing.

If Shiva did use a new born as a Chariot, at what age would he be taken seriously or listened to? It would be a lot of wasted years and Shiva is only here for a limited time.
joel wrote:is it the first time for you to consider this?
Yes, it is, you got me.

I was in the same frame of mind as in john's reply thinking it makes sense for an adult to have the faculties to narrate. It makes sense, so I thought nothing about it until a few days ago when (because I work with children) why Father Shiva cannot actually enter the Chariot of a baby ( or even one of the children whom I was teaching), nurture that soul and narrate words of wisdom and purity over time. If you work with children, you recognise how innocent they really are, they astound you with simplicity, and that is because I as an adult I have been tarnished with my own thoughts of the world itself unlike the child.

If the soul of the Chariot is untarnished from the outset, and with the protection of Father Shiva from birth, that soul will also simply be complementary tot he Supreme Soul as "being as one". The thought of two souls in one body (Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani)) where one soul is Supreme and the other is a degraded soul seems conflicting. Of course Father Shiva is beyond karma, but how much attention in India or outside if Father Shiva entered a 20 year old man seeking female virgins for his ashram, or a 30 year old,or a 50 year old, or a 2 year old, etc.
I just did not think of this thread until a few days ago !

Joel, do you know what the answer Seniors give to this ?

And now that Tete as just given an example of the Dalai Lama, one can conjure up the age of Jesus (Christ), Mohammed, Buddha, etc. I never gave any thought to age.

At what age did Lekhraj Kirpalani realise Father Shiva entered him, and also at what age did Virendra Dev Dixit realise Father entered him ?

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Re: Why not go straight into a baby Chariot ?

Post by arjun » 13 Dec 2008

tete wrote:So, is there an official line why the BK medium takes on an adult 'Chariot'? Also, at what age does the medium become the 'Chariot'?
john has already answered the your questions. As regards the second part of your question, it is generally mentioned in the Murlis that God enters in the vanprastha stage (the age of retirement). So, it is believed that God enters in the corporeal Chariot when it reaches the age of 60 years.

In case of PBKs it is believed that when God first of all came to this world in 1936 He entered the body of Sevakram, the partner of Dada Lekhraj to explain the meanings of the visions caused to Lekhraj Kirpalani. This happened when Sevakram was 60 years old. But when the same Sevakram takes rebirth as Baba Virendra Dev Dixit in 1942 God Shiv enters in him after the demise of Brahma Baba. But this time the corporeal medium is not 60 years old but much lesser. Nevertheless, it is mature enough to enable Shiv to give knowledge through him. In the latter case the word vanprastha is interpreted as 'a stage beyond speech (Vani)'.
sister bansy wrote:At what age did Lekhraj Kirpalani realise Father Shiva entered him, and also at what age did Virendra Dev Dixit realise Father entered him ?
I cannot say exactly about Brahma Baba (from BK point of view) but from PBK point of view he must have realized it around 1947 when Murlis began to be narrated through him and when BK virgins and mothers ran away from their homes in Hyderabad to join his gathering at Karachi.
joel wrote:BTW, this is my first post in the BK/PBK side of the forum.
Welcome to this corner of the forum. :D
Since I have not been able to log-in to the main ex-BK forum since 2nd of this month, it is nice to interact with friends like you, tete and john, who generally write on that forum. I hope you would find time to peep through this window to see the BK/PBK world occasionally. ;)

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Re: Why not go straight into a baby Chariot ?

Post by andrey » 13 Dec 2008

Brahma Baba is called a baby. In the Murli it is said that it is not right for a small boy like Krishna to narrate knowledge. For him it is right to play. To narrate knowledge a mature individual is required. When even the knowledge that comes from an adult is accepted as nonsense then how it would be taken from a baby?

What if a baby had red eyes, utterig "Shivohum", "Shivohum", it would be horror. What if it had visions. Aha, maybe this is why they draw circles like babies, it is because they don't understand. It is said that when the child is small it smiles and cries because it sees, remembers scenes from its past life.

And what if God also took rebirth. We would have God the whole Kalpa. We could get birth with him, live with him and die with him. But when he dies there would be some moment of confusion untill it is discovered where he has taken birth. If he had to become a child again then those who are his enemies would kill all his children as described in the epics. If he came in an adult he can be incognito. If a baby shows some God-like traits it will be exposed in the newspaper or the circus. As there are many adult Gods it is seen normal. If enemies of God had to kill all adults to kill him, the one who himself issued the order would have to kill his own self as an adult. There would be no adults anymore and children would turn the world into a kindergarten where there would be diaper worship. In unlimited sense taking birth means to get revealed. There could also be unlimited meanings to the feed-bottle, the baby cart and the walking aid.

There is difference between the understanding of a baby for heaven and an adult. The Golden Age is the baby stage of the world where mother nature is provider, but there is no awareness. Adults wish heaven not only for themselves, because their world is bigger. If I am happy but still there is someone in sorrow it is not heaven. Child makes others happy in a passive way and only those who come in connection. We can think of the baby, but it need not think of us. In the Murli it is said that the more we remember Baba, the more he remembers us, and to this Maya does not put him hurdles. He loves his serviceable children and remembers them and they get power. We need something bigger than us for to take power from it. A baby can give us joy, but not power.

Would baby Chariot have baby horses?

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