The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

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The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by john » 26 Jan 2009

Sakar Murli 2008/10/03 Revised
Shiv Baba enters this one and so you have to remember Shiv Baba. It is not that because Shiv Baba comes in this one, you have to remember this one.
No, you have to remember Shiv Baba up there. You have to remember Shiv Baba and your sweet home. Keep this in your intellect like a genie: Shiv Baba resides up there. Shiv Baba comes here and speaks to us, but we have to remember Him up there, not down here. Your intellect should go far away, not remain here.

Shiv Baba will go away anyway. Shiv Baba only enters this one. You cannot see Him in Mama. You know that this is Baba's Chariot, but you mustn't see his face. Let your intellect dangle up there. You won't enjoy yourself as much by keeping your intellect down here. This is not the pilgrimage. The limit of your pilgrimage is up there. It is not that you should continue to look at Baba because Shiv Baba is in him. In that case, your habit of going up above would be broken. The Father says: Remember Me up there. Connect your intellect's Yoga there. Some foolish people (buddhus) think that they should just sit here and continue to look at Baba. Oh, but you have to connect your intellect to the sweet home. Shiv Baba cannot be constantly sitting in the Chariot. He simply comes here and does service. He takes His Chariot, does service and then leaves the Chariot. One cannot always be riding a bull. So, your intellect should remain there. Baba comes, speaks the Murli and then leaves. This one's intellect also remains up there. You should follow the right path. Otherwise, you will repeatedly fall off-track. That One is only here for a short time. If Shiv Baba were not in him, why would you remember this one? Even this one can speak the Murli. Sometimes He is in this one and sometimes He is not
It is not that you just have to sit and look at this one. Baba has explained: Remember Shiv Baba. Otherwise sins will be committed. You constantly have to remember the Father. Otherwise, your sins will not be absolved.

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by shivshankar » 26 Jan 2009

Nice hand, John ;-)
(who had played poker will understand)

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by mbbhat » 26 Jan 2009

Many Many thanks to John Soul. This is what I had explained to PBKs. This is what most of the many BKs do(or keep aim) in remembrance. I also have mentioned the same in the thread Accurate Yaad. The logic is very simple.
One should remember highest(eternal) and pure things. In this world the pure things are ShivBaba(point), Paramdham and SukhDham. The soul(point) is also highest since it is eternal. So Baba always says consider yourself as soul, remember Baba, home and property.

Highest stage of remembrance is to remember Baba in Pramadham. The other stages are to remember Baba (point form) anywhere we like(because sometimes while doing action it is easier to emerge Baba in front of us). While sitting I always remember Baba in Paramadham.

I have read one more Murli point that "even when I am sitting in this body, there is no need to give drushti". When I get it, I will post.
Thank You once again.

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by bansy » 27 Jan 2009

There was discussion in the old blue forum about if Father Shiva was always present in the corporeal world, then what is actually existing "up there" in incorporeal world. What and how are the souls in the Soul World coming and going between the worlds if Father Shiva was only present in the corporeal world.

Now, the issue is this.

The Father has come down and enter a corporeal body in order to give knowledge. Unless a corporeal body is able to stay up for 24x7x365x100 years and keep on narrating knowledge constantly or give dhristi continously, then Father Shiva will then be able to spend the full Confluence Age on the corporeal world. But no physical body has this capacity, even a robot may need to undergo maintenance and have some downtime and oiling. In which case, where is Father Shiva when the corporeal body is at rest ?

So if the premise is Father Shiva is in the corporeal world for the entire duration of the Confluence Age, (i) who or what is looking after the souls in the incorporeal world and (ii) is Father Shiva hopping between a number of corporeal bodies since 1936 (?) when one body is resting and another is awake ? Surely Father Shiva does not rest.

But there is also a Murli point somewhere where it is said to see the "incorporeal within the corporeal" (I cannot recall the exact Murli points but it is also somewhere in this forum).

So the summary of Murli points is in order to remember ShivBaba or Father Shiva or God (whichever you prefer to call), you can simply remember Him here, up there and virtually anywhere you want ! Just remember that He is with you.

Which comes to the next phase in that if there is some corporeal body narrating knowledge, is Father Shiva through that corporeal body giving Godly wisdom and sustenance and knowledge and dhristi and Yoga ? Can you accept if that corporeal body is a Chariot ?

For the BKs, if you accept that the Murlis are complete (see other thread) then you have all the knowledge you need to progress in your spiritual path and the occasional entry of Father Shiva with Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) into Dadi Gulzar will sustain your spiritual journey. The rest of the time, you will remember Father Shiva "up there".

For the PBKs, the Murlis are not complete and need clarification and your remembrance of Father Shiv is with a Chariot of Virendra Dev Dixit.

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by mbbhat » 27 Jan 2009

bansy wrote:So the summary of Murli points is in order to remember ShivBaba or Father Shiva or God (whichever you prefer to call), you can simply remember Him here, up there and virtually anywhere you want ! Just remember that He is with you.
Yes, The above is the needed one.
Logically speaking, out of 5000 years, ShivBaba stays in Paramdham for more than 4900 years. Hence we have to remember ShivBaba in Paramdham most of the time(as much as possible). Our aim is to return to home. Hence we have to remember home also. So the most right thing is to visualize two points (self and Shiva) in Paramdham. [This is what I do].

A hero soul remains in corporeal world for most of the time in Drama. But during conflunece age it should remain(think of) Pramadham. Because the former is discharing period. Latter is the charging period. Charging periond may be less but the most important one. One may work for 8 hours per day and need just 30 minutes per day to eat three meals. But the former depends on the latter. Hence accurate knowledge, highest attention and concentration are needed in it. Highest concentration is possible only when one thinks of incorporeal and things because they are the only eternal(stable) things[Soul, Supreme Soul and Paramdham]. Remembering any corporeal thing will not develop such a high concentration.

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by button slammer » 31 Jan 2009

John
Shiv Baba enters this one and so you have to remember Shiv Baba. It is not that because Shiv Baba comes in this one, you have to remember this one.
No, you have to remember Shiv Baba up there. You have to remember Shiv Baba and your sweet home. Keep this in your intellect like a genie: Shiv Baba resides up there. Shiv Baba comes here and speaks to us, but we have to remember Him up there, not down here. Your intellect should go far away, not remain here.

Shiv Baba will go away anyway. Shiv Baba only enters this one. You cannot see Him in Mama. You know that this is Baba's Chariot, but you mustn't see his face. Let your intellect dangle up there. You won't enjoy yourself as much by keeping your intellect down here. This is not the pilgrimage. The limit of your pilgrimage is up there. It is not that you should continue to look at Baba because Shiv Baba is in him. In that case, your habit of going up above would be broken. The Father says: Remember Me up there. Connect your intellect's Yoga there. Some foolish people (buddhus) think that they should just sit here and continue to look at Baba. Oh, but you have to connect your intellect to the sweet home. Shiv Baba cannot be constantly sitting in the Chariot. He simply comes here and does service. He takes His Chariot, does service and then leaves the Chariot. One cannot always be riding a bull. So, your intellect should remain there. Baba comes, speaks the Murli and then leaves. This one's intellect also remains up there. You should follow the right path. Otherwise, you will repeatedly fall off-track. That One is only here for a short time. If Shiv Baba were not in him, why would you remember this one? Even this one can speak the Murli. Sometimes He is in this one and sometimes He is not
Shiv Baba enters this one and so you have to remember Shiv Baba. It is not that because Shiv Baba comes in this one, you have to remember this one
.
Remember the incorporeal in the corporeal. The corporeal one is not remembered. The incorporeal in the corporeal is remembered. The corporeal one is a tower. The incorporeal one is the light. It is the lighthouse that guides souls across the ocean of vice.
No, you have to remember Shiv Baba up there.
Up there =pure soul conciousness. Only one soul does not take birth through a human womb. One soul remains free from the influence of any soul or matter/nature. 'Up there'=incorporeal, viceless, egoless, whilst being in the body.
Up there = Shankar/incorporeal intellect/world
Down here = Brahma Baba/Lekhraj Kirpalani /corporeal intellect/world
Riding a bull = Service done through Brahma Baba/Lekhraj Kirpalani
It is not that you should continue to look at Baba because Shiv Baba is in him. In that case, your habit of going up above would be broken.
Here 'Baba' means Brahma Baba who left the body, and did not attain the complete incorporeal stage. Obviously by remembering a perishable medium the link would be broken. Unbroken link 'up there' means rememberance of the 'incorporeal in the corporeal' ie, 'the sweet home'.
The third eye is required to navigate the Three Worlds, the three aspects of time, the various Brahmas.
Reading Murlis will not open the third eye. :shock:
The third eye can only be opened by a soul whose third eye is open. :D A genie will easily explain these matters to you. Where may a genie be found? In the corporeal world of course!!! You will never, ever, ever, find a lamp in Paramdham, but, you may find Paramdham in a lamp. ;)

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

Sakar Murli 2008/10/03 Revised
It is not that you should continue to look at Baba because Shiv Baba is in him. In that case, your habit of going up above would be broken.

Some foolish people (buddhus) think that they should just sit here and continue to look at Baba. Oh, but you have to connect your intellect to the sweet home.

It is not that you just have to sit and look at this one.
The above Murli point says- one should not give drushti even to the Chariot.

Now- do PBKs give drushti to the Chariot?

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by arjun » 13 Aug 2012

The above Murli point says- one should not give drushti even to the Chariot.

Now- do PBKs give drushti to the Chariot?
We don't give drishti to the Chariot. We take drishti from ShivBaba (Shiv through the Chariot).

For us living supreme abode is the Chariot.

“ShivBaba bhi kahtey hain mai pehley is (Sakar Brahma) ko samjhaata hoon. ShivBaba ka yah chaitanya home hai. Pehley-pehley yah (Brahma) seekhtey hain fir unsay adopted children numberwaar seekh rahey hain. Yah badee guhya baatein hain. Sadgati data patit-paavan khud aakar yah sab raaz samjhaatey hain. Aisey nahee ki vahaan say preranaa kartey hain. Vah toh yahaan aatey hain..” (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 23.02.07, pg.2)

“ShivBaba also says that I initially explain to this one (corporeal Brahma). This is ShivBaba's living home. First of all this one (Brahma) learns. Then the adopted children are learning from him numberwise. These are very deep matters. The bestower of true salvation, the purifier of the sinful ones comes Himself and explains all these secrets. It is not that he gives inspiration from there. He comes here.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.02.07, pg.2 published by BKs)

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

Baba says- we should not give drushti even to the Chariot. But- PBKs violate it to the extent of 100% and accuse BKs that BKs give drushti.

Now- BKs give just drushti around 5% of their the total period of doing remembrance while sitting in class.

But, PBKs? They believe that even the Chariot should be remembered always.

The same Murli point mentioned above is in Hindi -


SM 1-11-83(2, 3):- Koyi paap na karo. Nashtmoha bano. Kitni menath hai. IS Mama BABA KO BHI Yaad NAHI KARNAA HAI. INKO Yaad KARNE SE JAMAA NAHIN HOGAA. INMAY ShivBaba AATE HAIN. TOH Yaad ShivBaba KO KARNAA HAI. AISEY NAHIN INMAY ShivBaba HAI, ISLIYE INKI Yaad RAHE. NAHIN, ShivBaba KO VAHAAN Yaad KARNAA HAI. ShivBaba vahaan rahte hain. ShivBaba yahaan aakar sunaate hain. Parantu humko Yaad vahaan karnaa hai. Yahaan nahin. BUDDHI DOOR2 TAK JAANI CHAAHIYE. Yahaan nahin. Yah ShivBaba toh chalaa jaayegaa. ShivBaba IS EK MAY HI AATE HAIN. Mama MAY TOH NAHIN AAYENGE. Tum jaante ho yah Baba kaa rath hai. PARANTU INKEY CHAHREY KO NAHIN DEKHNAA HAI. BUDDHI VAHAAN LATKI RAHE. YAHAAN BUDDHI RAHNEY SE ITNAA MAJAA NAHIN AAYEGAA. Yah koyi yaatraa nahin huyi. YATRA KI HADH TUMAARI VAHAAN HAI. AISEY NAHIN KI BABA KO DEKHTE HO KYONKI INMEY SHIV HAI. PHIR OOPAR JAANEY KI TEV TOOT PAD JAATAA HAI. APNI DESTINATION KO Yaad KARNAA HAI. BAAP KAHTE HAIN MUJHE VAHAAN Yaad KARO. BUDDHIYOG VAHAAN LAGAAVO. KAYI BUDDDHOO SAMAJHTE HAIN KI BABA KO HI BATH DEKHEY. Arey- buddhi ko sweet home may lagaanaa hai. ShivBaba toh sadaiv rath par rah na sakey. Yahaan aakar sirf service karenge. Savari li, service kar phir utar padenge. Byel par sadaiv savaari rah na sakey. Toh buddhi vahaan rahni chaahiye. Baba aaye hain, Murli chalaakar chaley jaayenge. Inki buddhi bhi vahaan rahti hai. Raastaa barobar pakadni chahiye. Nahin toh ghadi2 patti se gir padthey hain. Yah toh thodaa samay hai. Inmey ShivBaba hi nahin hogaa toh Yaad kyon karenge. Murli TOH YAH BHI SUNAA SAKTEY HAIN. INMAY KAB HAIN, KAB NAHIN HAIN. KAB REST LETE HAIN. Tum Yaad vahaan karte raho. Kab2 Baba khyaal karte hain drama anusaar kalp pahley aaj ke din jo Murli chalaayi thi, vo hi jaakar chalaavoongaa. Tum bhi kah saktey ho kalp pahley Baap se jitnaa varsaa liyaa hai us anusaar Murli chalaayenge. ShivBaba kaa naam zaroor lenaa padey. Parantu aisey kisko aayegaa nahin. Baap zaroor Yaad aayegaa. Baap kaa hi parichay denaa hai. AISEY NAHIN SIRF INKO BAITH DEKHNAA HAI. BABA NE SAMJHAAYAA HAI ShivBaba KO Yaad KARO. NAHIN TOH PAAP HO JAAYEGAA. Parantu Baap ko Yaad karnaa hai. Nahin toh vikarm vinaash nahin honge. Badi manjil hai. -29-, 30 [Yaad, rath, drushti, Sakar-niraakaar, Murli]

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by arjun » 13 Aug 2012

Baba says- we should not give drushti even to the Chariot. But- PBKs violate it to the extent of 100% and accuse BKs that BKs give drushti.
I have already clarified that PBKs don't give drishti to the Chariot. We take drishti from ShivBaba (Shiv through the Chariot).
How can you say we violate it 100% when ShivBaba's present Chariot keeps touring all over India and it is only once in many months that PBKs get a chance to receive drishti from ShivBaba. Whereas BKs give and take drishti from bodily beings everyday at every center, gitapathshala and madhuban. So, people can understand themselves who is violating Shrimat and who is following Shrimat.
But it is your habit to twist our words and spread lies even after we have clarified.
You can continue to spread lies. Good luck.

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

I have already clarified that PBKs don't give drishti to the Chariot. We take drishti from ShivBaba (Shiv through the Chariot).
Baba says- do not look (constantly) at the face of Chariot.

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by arjun » 13 Aug 2012

Baba says- do not look (constantly) at the face of Chariot.
I think you are habituated to seeing the face of Brahma Baba or the nimit sisters. That is why you think that PBKs are always seeing the Chariot's face. I have clarified twice that we see Shiv in the bhrikuti of the Chariot and not continuously. Only once in several months when He is practically present with us.

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

we see Shiv in the bhrikuti of the Chariot and not continuously. Only once in several months when He is practically present with us.
Then it is OK. but- I have seen here members commenting that- Mr. dixit giving drushti to PBKs from years and no improvement in them .
I think you are habituated to seeing the face of Brahma Baba or the nimit Sisters.
I am very fortunate that i had no interest in giving drushti even to Avyakt Baapdaa during milan at mount Abu. I had expressed this opinion in the old forum itself around 3 yrs before.

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by arjun » 13 Aug 2012

Then it is OK. but- I have seen here members commenting that- Mr. dixit giving drushti to PBKs from years and no improvement in them .
U r free 2 b influenced by anyone.
I am very fortunate that i had no interest in giving drushti even to Avyakt Baapdaa during milan at mount Abu. I had expressed this opinion in the old forum itself around 3 yrs before.
BKs and PBKs talk of taking drishti from BapDada or ShivBaba, but you repeatedly talk about giving drishti to BapDada. This proves my observation that you consider yourself greater than BapDada or ShivBaba. Good. :D

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Re: The Clearest Murli points to Remembrance

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

One more thing- here.PBKs say- we do not give drushti, but take drushti from ShivBaba.

now- Baba's intention was to take away children's intellect beyond the Chariot. But when PBKs rememeber Shiv in Chariot, is it not 100% against srimath? Is it not immaterial whether they take drushti or give drushti?

And even though PBKs say- they take drushti once in several months, but when they listen to VCDs, then are they not seeing the face of the Chariot?

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