Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

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Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by mbbhat » 19 Mar 2009

SM 18-12-76(1):- Bachche tum Trimurti Shiv Jayanti akshar likhte ho. Parantu is samay 3 murtiyaan to hai nahin. Tum kahenge ShivBaba Brahma dwara srushti rachte to Brahma zaroor Sakar may hona chahiye na. BAAKI Vishnu AUR Shankar IS SAMAY KAHAAN HAIN JO TUM Trimurti KAHTE HO? Yah bahut samajhne ki baatein hain. Trimurti ka arth hee hai BVS(Brahma Vishnu Shankar) hai. Trimurti BVS raaz ko tum hi jaante ho. Yah bhi jaante ho Brahma dwara sthaapna. VAH TO IS SAMAY HOTI. Vishnu dwara paalna Satyug may hogi. Vinash ka kaary anth may hota hai. Isliye (the word) Trimurti Shiv ki Jayanti NAHIN HONI CHAHIYE. TEENON KO (the Bhaktimarg people have) LAGAA DEE HAI. Shiv ki Jayanti hai.

=Children, you write the word Trimurti SHIV JAYANTI. But at present there are no three murtis. You say ShivBaba creates srushti through Brahma, so Brahma should definitely be in corporeal, is it not? Where are the rest Vishnu and Shankar at present that you SAY Trimurti? This is a matter to understand deeply/more. Trimurti means Brahma Vishnu Shankar. You only know the secret of Trimurti BVS. (You) also know creation through Brahma. That happens at present. Sustenance through Vishnu will happen in Satyug. Destruction will happen in the end. HENCE IT SHOULD NOT BE Trimurti SHIV JAYANTI. (They have ) mixed the three. (Actually it is just) Shiv Jayanti.

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by andrey » 19 Mar 2009

At the time of the Murli, three murtis were not there. They have mixed them because at the BK picture all the murtis are with the face of Brahma. Here it is said tha through Brahma there is creation, at the end through Shankar there is destruction and then sustenanace through Vishnu.

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by arjun » 19 Mar 2009

"Niraakaar Baap jaroor Paramdhaam may rahtey hongey. Jaisey tum bhi sab merey saath rahtey ho. Pehley jab mai aataa hoon toh merey saath Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar hotey hain. Manushya srishti toh pehley say hee hai fir vah kaisey paltaa khaati hai, repeat kaisey hoti hai. Pehley pehley jaroor sookshmavatan rachnaa padey fir sthoolvatan may aana padey kyonki manushya jo devtaa thay, vah ab Shudra baney hain. Unhon ko fir Brahman say devtaa banaanaa padey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 08.01.08, pg 1)

“The incorporeal Father must be certainly living in the Supreme Abode just as you all live with me. First when I come, Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar are with me. The human world is already in existence; then how does it turn, how does it repeat? First of all the Subtle Region would have to be created; then one has to come to the corporeal world because human beings, who were deities have now become shudras. They have to be then transformed from Brahmins to deities.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 08.01.08, pg 1 published by BKs)

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by mbbhat » 20 Mar 2009

arjun wrote: 1)First when I come, Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar are with me.
2) The human world is already in existence; then how does it turn, how does it repeat? 3) First of all the Subtle Region would have to be created; then one has to come to the corporeal world because human beings, who were deities have now become shudras....
1)Who are these BV and S with Shiv when he comes?
2)And these BVS should not be from corporeal world right? [Since the Murli says "Human world is already in existence"].
3)Why Subtle Region should be created to transform shudras into deities?

Dear Arjun soul,
Will you please expalin the above?

Also why the Murli says- It is not correct to write Trimurti Shiv Jayanti(the first post written by me)?
---
Andrey wrote:- At the time of the Murli, three murtis were not there. They have mixed them because at the BK picture all the murtis are with the face of Brahma. Here it is said tha through Brahma there is creation, at the end through Shankar there is destruction and then sustenanace through Vishnu.
So do you mean this point is spoken to PBKs and not BKs? If yes, is Baba instructing PBKs not to use the word Trimurti?

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by andrey » 20 Mar 2009

dear mbhat,
A the time the Murli were spoken, it was not known who is Shankar or Vishnu. Even Brahma used to be only titleholder. Maybe this is why it is said in the Murli that the picture of Trimurti is not accurate and we should prepare the accurate picture. The accurate picture is of living personalities. It is said that in the outsidw world they say Trimurti brahma (in the trumurti they have put Brahma in all the three places, just shaven as Shankar and Vishnu, because they believe through Brahma all the three parts are played, but practially there was no destruction). No, in the Murli it is said that we should not say Shivjayanti but Trimurti Shivjayanti. I don't know what is said fro whom i the Murli. I don't think there can be separation of BK, PBK. The only separation is of soul-conscious and bodyconscious and in these all are to become soulconcious so there is again no separation.

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by mbbhat » 04 Apr 2009

SM 15-1-76(1):- Oonch te oonch hai bhagavaan. Phir sookshmvatanvaasi BVS(Brahma Vishnu Shankar) kah dete hain. Vo koyi hai nahin. Baap inkaa bhi arth samjhate hain, yah sirf saakshaatkaar hota hai.

= Highest of High is God. Next Subtle Region residents BVS. (But in reality) they are not present. Father explains even the meaning of this, just vision happens.

If BVS do not really exist, how can Shiva be Trimurti?

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by arjun » 04 Apr 2009

SM 15-1-76(1):- Oonch te oonch hai bhagavaan. Phir sookshmvatanvaasi BVS(Brahma Vishnu Shankar) kah dete hain. Vo koyi hai nahin. Baap inkaa bhi arth samjhate hain, yah sirf saakshaatkaar hota hai.

= Highest of High is God. Next Subtle Region residents BVS. (But in reality) they are not present. Father explains even the meaning of this, just vision happens.
You have drawn a different interpretation of the underlined portion in Hindi. I feel that actually Baba wants to say that Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar do not exist in the same form as they have been depicted in the path of worship, like the three headed Brahma, four-armed Vishnu or the three eyed Shankar. The Father comes and explains the true meaning of these pictures of Bhaktimarg. But that does not mean that they do not exist. There are so many Murlis which say that they do exist and that there is a biography of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar.
1)Who are these BV and S with Shiv when he comes?
2)And these BVS should not be from corporeal world right? [Since the Murli says "Human world is already in existence"].
3)Why Subtle Region should be created to transform shudras into deities?
1. The souls which play the role of B,V & S are already present in this world when Shiv comes, but when He comes in this world, these three actors are present at the same place and time. Therefore, it has been said that when Shiv comes BVS are with Him.
2. BVS remain in the subtle stage of thinking and churning. That is why they are said to be from the Subtle Region. That does not mean that they do not exist in the corporeal world.
3. Subtle Region, i.e. a place of subtle thinking and churning is created on this Earth by God to transform the body conscious souls (Shudras) into soul conscious ones (Brahmins).

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by mbbhat » 04 Apr 2009

arjun wrote: by mbbhat:- 1)SM 15-1-76(1):- Oonch te oonch hai bhagavaan. Phir sookshmvatanvaasi BVS(Brahma Vishnu Shankar) kah dete hain. Vo koyi hai nahin. Baap inkaa bhi arth samjhate hain, yah sirf saakshaatkaar hota hai.

2. The souls which play the role of B,V & S are already present in this world when Shiv comes, but when He comes in this world, these three actors are present at the same place and time. Therefore, it has been said that when Shiv comes BVS are with Him.
1)Will you explain the significance of yah sirf saakshaatkaar hota hai

2)Why God needs three actors?

3)I think the three are Sevakram(Present Mr. Dixit), his lowkik wife Gita_mata(Presently Vedanti Bhen) and another lady was Radha bachchi(kamala Dixit). Do PBKs have any proof of their date of birth? How many children they had and where are they at present?

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by mbbhat » 08 May 2009

SM 20-4-89(1):- Oonche te oonch hai ShivBaba. Phir oonch te oonch hai Vishnu ka raajy. Yah Trimurti jo dikhaya hai- usmey hona chahiye Brahma Vishnu aur Shiv NA KI Shankar. Parantu baaju may Shiv ko kaise rakhen? To phir Shankar ko rakh diya hai. Aur Shiv ko oopar may rakha hai. Usmey shobha achchi hoti hai. Sirf do(=two) shobha nahin dete. Shankar ki mala nahin kahenge. Brahma, Vishnu aur Rudr Mala; Bas. Shobha ke liye Bhakti may kitney chitr banaye hain. Parantu gyaan kuch bhi nahin hai. Tum jo chitr banate ho unki pahchaan deni hai to manushy samajh jaaye. Nahin to Shiv Shankar ko mila dete hain. – 154

Highest of High is ShivBaba. Next highest is Kingdom of Vishnu. In this Trimurti shown, it should be Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv, NOT Shankar. But how can Shiv be placed is side? So Shankar is placed (there) and Shiv is placed at the top. That looks good. Just two (at below) does not look good. It cannot/is be said Mala of Shankar. Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra Mala, that’s all. In Bhakti, for good appearance many pictures are done. But there is no knowledge at all. You should give/explain introduction/meaning of the picture what you do. Else (they) will mix Shiv and Shankar.

The above Murli point clearly says that Shankar is not at all important. Actually Trimurti picture is incorrect.

*There is a Murli point that says, "children, why cannot you draw accurate picture of Trimurti? "

Around 5 years before (BKWSU had organized a three days huge service there and many BKs had gathered at Bangalore. PBKs wanted to draw BKs' attention) I have seen posters pasted on many walls around public streets in Bangalore City of Karnataka State. In that picture, Shankar was replaced by Mr. Dixit. I do not remember the picture exactly now.
---
*I think PBKs have altered the trimuti picture due to this Murli point.

But what Baba explains is perhaps, there should be just three murtis including Shiv in trimutri picture. That is just Brahma and Vishnu in the bottom and Shiv on top.

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by andrey » 08 May 2009

The Murli point does not say that Shankar is not important. It says that Shiv should be there at the place of Shankar. But how will Shiv be there (without a body) That is why Shankara is put. (it means Shankar is the form through which Shiv is revealed). Then it is said that they have put Shiv (point) at the top. And that looks very good. Then it is said that at the path of Bhakti they draw pictures that look good, but does not have knowledge in them. Similarly they have put point at the top that looks good, but does not have knowledge in it. Knowledge is there in whatever it is said in the Murli that Shiv should be there at the place of Shankar, in corporeal body.

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by mbbhat » 08 May 2009

1) usmey hona chahiye Brahma Vishnu aur Shiv NA KI Shankar.

2)Sirf do(=two) shobha nahin dete.


1)it should be Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv, NOT Shankar.

2) Just two does not look good.
Dear Andrey Soul,

1) Why Baba says there should not be Shankar in Trimurti?

2)Just two does not look good:- Does not this imply that actually there should be just two only?

3)Will you please explain why there is no mala of Shankar?

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by andrey » 08 May 2009

1) Because Shiv should be there
2) Just two does not look good means three looks good.
3) It is said Rudra Mala, Brahma Vishnu and Rudra. There is no mala of Shankar because he does destruction. To create mala means to create gathering. Gathering is created through purity and destruction is through impurity. The part of Shankar is of destruction. Anyway through Rudra rudra Gyan Yagya is created. Souls gather on the basys of knowledge. The mala of Vishnu is different it is the mala of victory, the mala of purity. And the mala of Rudra is different. At the end they combine and become one final combined mala of the family path.

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by mbbhat » 09 May 2009

andrey wrote:Shiv should be there at the place of Shankar, in corporeal body.
Dear Andrey Soul,
Should not Shiv be shown in body of Brahma? OR should he be shown in both bodies, that is of Brahma and Shankar? Should we show two souls in each of these two bodies?

If you have accurate Trimurti picture, can you upload here?

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by andrey » 12 May 2009

I think shiv can be shown in all the three murtis. But out of the three only one achieve nirakari stage equall to him, so his place is there in Shankar. He is methaphorically shown naked to indicate this.

I believe in the correct picture of Trimurti Brahma should be in female form and also Vishnu is said to be combination of Laksmi and Narayan. So we should know who are Lakshmi an Narayan. It is said that Brahma becomes Vishnu. It is also said that if we put Jagadamba in the palce of Shankar it would be easy to explain, because it is not Shankar who does the destruction but shaktis.

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Re: Is Shiv really Trimurti? Mostly NO.

Post by mbbhat » 12 May 2009

andrey wrote:1)I think Shiv can be shown in all the three murtis. But out of the three only one achieve nirakari stage equall to him, so his place is there in Shankar. He is methaphorically shown naked to indicate this.

2)I believe in the correct picture of Trimurti Brahma should be in female form and also Vishnu is said to be combination of Laksmi and Narayan. So we should know who are Lakshmi an Narayan. It is said that Brahma becomes Vishnu. 3)It is also said that if we put Jagadamba in the palce of Shankar it would be easy to explain, because it is not Shankar who does the destruction but shaktis.
Dear Andrey soul,

1) Do you say Mr. Dixit is playing part of Shankar now? If yes, please justify how it is since you belive he is an effort maker until now. [So he ccanot be 100% niarakari satge now, right?]

2)You believe- so you are not sure(?). Is not this topic already covered in Advance Party class?

3)Do you mean a Murli point says- if we put Jagadamba in the palce of Shankar it would be easy to explain? If yes, if possible please quote the Murli point.

Thank You.

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