What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

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What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by new knowledge » 17 Apr 2009

I am really confused about the application (in BKWSU) of the ambiguous concepts - corporeal, subtle & incorporeal.
1) Does these 3 concepts indicate the spiritual level & the level of affinity of a soul towards body, irrespective of the fact that whether that soul is present in corporeal and/or subtle body or that soul is not present in any kind of body?
2) Or,do the concepts corporeal, subtle & incorporeal indicate the presence of a soul in corporeal body, subtle body & bodyless stage respectively, irrespective of the spiritual level of a soul or the level of affinity of that soul towards body?
3) If a ghost (who has no his own corporeal body & who is wondering with his own subtle body) is impure & has body attachment, is he corporeal, irrespective of whether he is present in the corporeal body of another soul or not? Or, is it that if that soul is present in the corporeal body of another soul, he should be considered as 'corporeal; and that if he is not present in that body, he should be regarded as 'subtle', irrespective of the level of body attachment of that ghost?
4) If a soul is playing his part in his own corporeal body, but he has no body-attachment at all, in such case, when should his spiritual stage be regarded as 'subtle', & as 'incorporeal? Or, should he be regarded as corporeal even though he is free from body-attachment?
5) Why is it stated in Murli that Vishnu-Maala souls are corporeal, even though they are very pure (Sato-pradhaan) without any body-attachment?

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by arjun » 17 Apr 2009

From a BK point of view:
Corporeal - a soul with a physical body.
Subtle - a soul without a physical body, but with a subtle body.
Incorporeal - a soul in the Supreme Abode without a physical or subtle body.

From a PBK point of view:
Apart from the above literal meaning, these words also have a meaning in an unlimited sense.
Corporeal - a stage of body consciousness.
Subtle - a stage of subtle thinking and churning about the soul, the Supreme Soul or the knowledge.
Incorporeal - a seed-form stage, where one considers himself to be soul without a body and remains in the constant remembrance of the Supreme Soul.

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by new knowledge » 20 Apr 2009

arjun wrote:Apart from the above literal meaning, these words also have a meaning in an unlimited sense.
Then, in the advance knowledge, the meanings of the words 'corporeal', 'subtle' & 'incorporeal' are more ambiguous & confusing. The use of the words 'apart from' (in your quotation) mean that the advance knowledge accepts literal meaning (as BKs do) as well as the unlimited sense of meaning of the words - corporeal, subtle & incorporeal. But, sometimes, the literal meaning of these words are contradictory to the unlimited sense of meaning of these words. Under such circumstances, either literal or unlimited sense of meaning is valid & both of them cannot be accepted simultaneously. For example, within the 3rd, 4th & 5th query asked by me in the first post of this thread, you have to accept either literal or unlimited sense of meaning. Then, what is the explanation of the advance knowledge about these queries? Please reply.

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by mbbhat » 21 Apr 2009

new knowledge wrote: 1)...
2)...
3)...
4)...
5) Why is it stated in Murli that Vishnu-Maala souls are corporeal, even though they are very pure (Sato-pradhaan) without any body-attachment?
Reply:-
1 to 4) It is an indication of both, the stage of the soul as well as where it is staying(without body, in subtle body or in corporeal body).
There are Murli points that say I(God) am now Sakar. Baba says I have taken birth. Roop badalkar aavo(=Change your form and come).

Corporeal stage or form has limitations. It can be pure(deities) or impure(human beings after Copper Age).

The subtle stage has no corporeal limits. It can travel anywhere. But it may not know everything. But it can get many information since it can travel anywhere. But it has limitations according to its karmic account.

ShivBaba who has no limitations. That is, he knows everything and can travel anywhere. He need not move physically to get information. He can do even visions. Ghosts do not have this capacity. [But of course, even ShivBaba has some limits which are already put in drama]

5)Rudramala = mala of Shiva= at the end of Sangamyug. We have knowledge in Sangamyug, so we realize that we all are souls(brothers). Children of Shiva(= Rudra) are souls. Hence rudramala is called as incorporeal. Lord of the world in Sangamyug is Shiva, hence the mala is called as Rudramala. All the 600 crore souls belong to rudramala (numberwise), but the top most rankholders 108 are remembered and worshipped.

When the same rudramala souls enter heaven, there the relation is bhaayi Bhen(brother sister). There the lord of the world is Vishnu= Sakar (not Shiva). Hence the souls are called as Vishnu mala souls.

The rudramala and Vishnumala souls are same. But in Sangamyug, there is no bodily relation(all put effort to forget body, hence it is called as incorporeal), but in heaven, the relation is Sakar(please note that niraakaar relation is always present since soul is niraakaar. But in Confluence Age, the aim is to become incorporeal(forget body) where as in heaven there is no knowledge of the soul(Of course very limited knowledge of soul is present, but not in detail) or Supreme Soul. Hence it is called as Sakar mala.
Arjun soul wrote:- From a BK point of view:
Corporeal - a soul with a physical body.
Subtle - a soul without a physical body, but with a subtle body.
Incorporeal - a soul in the Supreme Abode without a physical or subtle body.
Dear Arjun Soul,
BKs say about beejroop stage(being in body but forgetting the body). BKs believe that nirakari(incorporeal) stage should be practise and realized being in the body.

So I feel your above quote is highly incorrect (if you mean to say that BKs' belief is limited just to the above)

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by arjun » 21 Apr 2009

mbbhat wrote:So I feel your above quote is highly incorrect (if you mean to say that BKs' belief is limited just to the above)
You can say it is incomplete, but it is definitely not incorrect.

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by mbbhat » 27 May 2010

arjun wrote:Incorporeal - a seed-form stage, where one considers himself to be soul without a body and remains in the constant remembrance of the Supreme Soul.
Dear soul,
How many souls in pbk or bk family have attained this so far? What about Mr. Dixit and Vedanti Bhen?

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by arjun » 27 May 2010

Nobody in the PBK family claims to be hundred percent soul conscious at present.

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by mbbhat » 28 May 2010

What may be the percentage of Mr. dixit and Vedanti sister? Any idea?

at least do PBKs believe the pecentage of Dixit and Vedanti are equal?

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by new knowledge » 28 May 2010

mbbhat wrote:What may be the percentage of Mr. dixit and Vedanti Sister? Any idea?

at least do PBKs believe the pecentage of Dixit and Vedanti are equal?
Brother mbbhat, the same question to you. What may the percentage of Mr. Lekhraj Kirpalani? Any idea?

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by mbbhat » 29 May 2010

Dear new knowledge soul,

According to my belief Dada Lekhraj has already attained 100% of the maximum possible goal by any human soul.

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by new knowledge » 29 May 2010

mbbhat wrote:Dear new knowledge soul,
According to my belief Dada Lekhraj has already attained 100% of the maximum possible goal by any human soul.
If Lekhraj Kirpalani has already attained 100% of the maximum possible goal by any human soul, it means he has settled his 100% Karmic accounts i.e., now he has no any positive/negative Karmic account with any soul. Then, why is he playing Avyakt part (as believed by you)? Does not this mean that he has subtle (though infinitisimal) Karmic accounts?

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by mbbhat » 31 May 2010

new knowledge wrote:... Does not this mean that he has subtle (though infinitisimal) Karmic accounts?
Shiv came and played his role through corporeal body. does that imply shiv also has karmic account?

The point is very simple. If one plays role it need not imply any karmic account. If any action changes state, it implies there is karmic account. Else there is not account!- is it not?

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by arjun » 31 May 2010

Om Shanti. If Brahma Baba had attained 100% soul consciousness before his demise he should not have died of a heart attack. Moreover, even in one of the initial Avyakt Vanis of January, 1969 it is stated that whatever karmic account remains would be settled through the subtle body. If a human soul enters in another human being with its subtle body, then it naturally means that it has a karmic account with that soul.

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by mbbhat » 01 Jun 2010

arjun wrote:Om Shanti. 1)If Brahma Baba had attained 100% soul consciousness before his demise he should not have died of a heart attack. Moreover, even in one of the initial Avyakt Vanis of January, 1969 it is stated that whatever karmic account remains would be settled through the subtle body.2) If a human soul enters in another human being with its subtle body, then it naturally means that it has a karmic account with that soul.
Om Shantiji to arjun soul

1)There is no hard and fast rule what should be the physical condition of a yogi while dying. How much one has conquered vices and enjoyed super sensuous joy and had inspired others is the way to identify the greatness of a person.

Do you say if a person dies without heart attack and get natural death are better than others (for example some die without being noticed. Eg:- The person goes to sleep in the night. When others see him in the morning, there will be dead body)?

for example say one soldier dies while fighting and another gets natural death after retirement. Who will be praised much or have higher value?

So what I mean to say is the one who has sacrificed maximum and have enjoyed braahmin life and have highest intoxication is the greatness.

Moreover there is clear Murli point- No one can get 100 marks. ShivBaba alone is 100%. However, whatever you do effort, you can never become ocean. So even if there is any imprefection, I say it is OK. Because that is the maximum level a human soul can reach.

Will you please explain what is 100% soul conscious stage and to what extent Mr. dixit has reached? If you do not know about that or cannot judge, on what basis you believe PBK philosophy?
Dear Arjun soul,

In what way the intoxication of Mr. Dixit is higher than Dada Lekhraj?

Another thing- a person who has intoxication will be least bothered about anything. He will not be strict to others. So how can you if you say Father(Sevakram or Dixit) is strict and mother(Brahma Baba) is not?

2)This Murli point need not be for Brahma Baba. Because many Sakar Murlis say Avyakt Brahma is complete and pure. Also many Avyakt Murli say Brahma Baba has already attained karmaateet satage and is number one.

Of course, there can be even impure souls in Avyakt form (ghosts). Like you have both impure corporeal bodies and pure corporeal bodies, why cannot there be both pure subtle bodies and impure subtle bodies? So why cannot Brahma Baba's soul be in pure subtle body?

Dear Soul,

If you stick on to Murli point, stick to them. Else you should be able to explain logically. Is it not?

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Re: What is meant by corporeal, subtle & incorporeal ??

Post by arjun » 10 Jun 2010

Om Shanti. I have already stated that I am not here for arguements but to express my views or those of AIVV. It is upto every member to accept or reject the same.
OGS,
Arjun

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