Are foreigners wasting their time with BKs and PBKs

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bansy
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Are foreigners wasting their time with BKs and PBKs

Post by bansy » 14 May 2009

Disc.CD-658, dated 22.10.08 at PV
Part-1

Time: 0.10-5.32
Student: Baba, a question has been asked on BKInfo that vices and corruption ended from Bhaarat in 1976. It has been written like this. So, has the soul of Ram already become complete since 1976 and if he has not become (complete) then why is it said: BapDada is waiting for the children?
Baba: Is it not good to wait for the children? It is definitely good to wait for the children, but the shooting that is taking place, in that shooting should there also be a role of the Father or not?
Student: It should be there.
Baba: The hero part should also be there. According to that calculation, it has been mentioned that corruption (has ended) from Bharat. And it is said Bharat mata (Mother India) and not Bharat Pita (Father India). What is said?
Student: Bharat mata (mother India)
Baba: So, as far as the question of Bharat mata is concerned, vices and corruption has (already) ended from within her. Even in 63 births it was like that. When compared to others, the percentage (of virtues) was certainly more.
Student: So, will it be said for the soul of Ram too, that in 1976....Baba: He is not said to be Bharat Mata (Mother India). Is he called Bharat? Yes, we can understand that when there is a Mother India, there will be a Father (with her) as well. In addition, the Father belongs to the entire world. He does not belong only to India. Is India to become viceless first or is the world to become viceless (first)?
Student: First India has to become (viceless).
Baba: Only India has to become (viceless first). Indians alone have to become (viceless first). The foreigners are unable to quickly grasp even the language. And then the karmic accounts of 63 births are also seen. Who has become more sinful in the 63 births?
Student: Indians.

Baba: Indians have become more sinful. So, the soul of Ram is the one who resides in Bharat Mata because it is a Motherland. They (the people of India) are not sanyasis. The incarnations of Ram and Krishna are human incarnations and the other incarnations are different. So, the issue of path of household cannot be proved to be firm in them. And the path of household can become firm only when the mother is kept ahead. So, the mother is certainly more viceless when compared to the 500 crore (5 billion) souls even in the last birth.
In the above bold, there are some words in brackets. Someone had put the words "viceless first" in the words that Baba spoke (e.g. Only India has to become (viceless first)), Who put these words in ?

There is a difference in the meaning between "Only India has to become" and "Only India has to become (viceless first)".

Please explain who is doing the words in brackets.


"The foreigners are unable to quickly grasp even the language" then why bother translating in the first place ? I am surprised Baba would make such a statement. If you were studying for any subject at school, say Maths, and the teacher said to you that you are unable to quickly grasp even the addition, then what encouragement does that give you. Is the teacher blaming the students ?

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Re: Are foreigners wasting their time with BKs and PBKs

Post by arjun » 15 May 2009

sister bansy wrote:In the above bold, there are some words in brackets. Someone had put the words "viceless first" in the words that Baba spoke (e.g. Only India has to become (viceless first)), Who put these words in ?
The translator. A note is generally added at the end of the file to this effect. Moreover, if anyone wants to see the actual audio and video of the discussion he/she can see it free of cost on the PBK website www.PBKs.info
There is a difference in the meaning between "Only India has to become" and "Only India has to become (viceless first)".
Can you please mention the difference that you see?
I guess the words were added because in Hindi a few words can express many words that the speaker intends to speak. A person who knows Hindi will infer the same sentence as if the words within the bracket have also been spoken. So, for the convenience of the English readers the words have been added within brackets.
"The foreigners are unable to quickly grasp even the language" then why bother translating in the first place ? I am surprised Baba would make such a statement. If you were studying for any subject at school, say Maths, and the teacher said to you that you are unable to quickly grasp even the addition, then what encouragement does that give you. Is the teacher blaming the students ?
In the same CD or the previous CD, Baba has clarified this by asking as to why do you consider yourselves as foreigners? Why don't you think that you were an Indian in your previous birth and have taken rebirth in the foreign country just for service? There are millions of souls which may be Indian by birth but will not become deities. So, they are as good as foreigners. Whereas there may be many souls from foreign countries who make more efforts than the souls with Indian bodies. It is the soul that Baba sees as Indian or foreigner and not the bodies.

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Re: Are foreigners wasting their time with BKs and PBKs

Post by bansy » 15 May 2009

arjunbhai wrote:Can you please mention the difference that you see?
"Only India has to become" = only India, the rest of the world is not considered
"Only India has to become (viceless first)" = India will become viceless, then the rest of the world follows
Baba sees as Indian or foreigner and not the bodies
Yes, the soul is Indian or foreign (=Non Indian), but that means the soul is being defined as to be attached to physical pieces (body conscious) of earth termed India and Non-India Land.

Thus my point is that this could simply be an Indian religion. It is meant for Indians (a physical description for a soul whose origin is from physical India) and thus it is limited only to a region called India ; it may include souls of having previous births in India but who are now living in non-India land. But the end focus is on India and Indian souls. There is, thus, a clear distinct seperation of souls, and also that of the physical land. You are either a soul defined from and attached to a physical peice of land called India, or you are not. Does Paramdham have this distinct seperation of India and Non India ?

In other words, souls who do not have previous or current births in India, and/or do not live in the land called India now, are excluded as deities and the Golden Age. Furthermore, even for those souls who are now in India not all will be included either as deities and the Golden Age.

To summarise, I cannot say whether all souls in the world will come to recognise Baba (which would make it a world religion), or whether it is only exclusive for those souls who have some attachment to India in this birth or previous birth to recognise Baba (making it an Indian religon).

In each spiritual or philosophical path, it is important to see the benefits for all but not exclude any, or make any distinctions.

In terms of widespread, Hinduism is now only confined mainly to sub-continent as compared to many other religions. Likewise the Hindi language and English language; with even the English language has made itself into the subcontinent during the Confluence Age.

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Re: Are foreigners wasting their time with BKs and PBKs

Post by arjun » 15 May 2009

sister bansy wrote:"Only India has to become" = only India, the rest of the world is not considered
"Only India has to become (viceless first)" = India will become viceless, then the rest of the world follows
I think if you read the previous sentences then the words within the brackets become necessary. I quote:
Baba:.....In addition, the Father belongs to the entire world. He does not belong only to India. Is India to become viceless first or is the world to become viceless (first)?
Student: First India has to become (viceless).
Baba: Only India has to become (viceless first).
Please note the word 'first' in the second sentence spoken by Baba quoted above. Baba has just avoided repetition of the word 'first' in the latter sentences/phrases.
To summarise, I cannot say whether all souls in the world will come to recognise Baba (which would make it a world religion), or whether it is only exclusive for those souls who have some attachment to India in this birth or previous birth to recognise Baba (making it an Indian religon).
Although all the souls in the world will definitely recognize Baba but since they would not have made efforts to transform their souls, they will not come in heaven that will be located in the Indian subcontinent.

Moreover, it should be noted that this is a drama. And every actor cannot have the same role. Some have the role of coming in heaven and some do not have. If all 700 crores have to come in heaven, then it will not be called heaven at all. So, it is not a question of prejudice against souls of any particular region of the world.

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Re: Are foreigners wasting their time with BKs and PBKs

Post by andrey » 15 May 2009

This is why clarifications are needed, because there may be misunderstanding.

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