Love to all

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bansy
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Re: Love to all

Post by bansy » 29 Jul 2009

5)All you have is what you have at any one time.
5)This is foolishness. It is to say both darkness and light are same. It is to say nectar and poison are same. If so, why should one go insearch for love, peace, etc?
My dear brothers and sisters,
One needs to understand the meanings of time when it comes to transformation of love and of God. Churning is a transformation process that encompasses this learning and knowing to become closer to God. You have only what you have at this point in time. What you had yesterday is already gone. What you will have tomorrow has not come. You may have accumulated but you could also have not accumulated up to now. What you have is what you have in your account now. Thus you have both darkness and light at the same time. You have nectar and poison at the same time. It is foolish to see that they are the same, they are not. They are simply opposing thoughts that give you discerning power and power of judgements and other powers. Your own self thought power will discern if you allow nectar to come out and suppress poison. Murlis consistently say that Maya is here, it does not go away. The battle over Maya and Ravan does not end until the final moment of enlightnment/nirvana/buddhi. We all search for love and peace because we are loveless and peaceless. Our nectar has been diluted by the poison, it is an integral part of being degraded over time. It is our current state of our souls since the start of the cycle.

So you have only what you have at one point in time. Before your brahmin birth you were like this. Ath the start of your brahmin birth you were like thyat. Yesterday you were like this. Tomorrow you will be like that. Thus it is important to always do Yoga. What is Yoga essentially. It is reducing thought and gaining power, linking to Supreme Power. Knowledge is a means for practical application, but meditation is the means to gain more knowledge. Your thoughts needs to be understood, not another soul's other than the Supreme Soul's. In some practices such as Zen, you are to not think at all. The more you empty your mind, the more you are able to fill it. You will learn to be able to leave more love and nectar in your mind, and dispel the poison and residues in it. But all you can do is act at any one time. You cannot plan for tomorrow because you live now. If you plan for tommorow you are dead now. If you tink about this morning, you are dead now. If you have what you have now, you live now. A transformation is a continous process of states.

In some ways, Shivsena's Bhai "theory" is "not flawed", as the final state (108 jewels) will not be known until the end. Meanwhile we are ALL in Bhakti Gyan, we are all going through intermittent stages. We are all still in the process of obtaining Gyan. The understanding of what is meant by the "end" is misleading. The end means the end of thought. You will not think of God even at the end. God does not need to think as He is constant. If you are constant as He is, Bapsaman, you will also not need to think. That is our aim, because in the Golden Age, you do not need to think (well not much at the beginning). The Golden Age is nirvana, it is true joy. All current experiences of "joy" and "bliss" are all preceptions of thoughts being played whilst in an impure body.

Hence nothing can be more accurate than it is now. Please understand the concept of past present and future. As all life and death depends on it.

I am pleased peoples on this forum are churning in different ways, they are accurate for each self, but inaccurate for others. However, it does not make it inaccurate. To dispel the teachings of one is to make your own learning inaccurate. Because you have created a barrier that is self made. It is a Mayan trick. You and I, we all have a "theory" even if it is one that is shared and led it is still ultimately "your theory". It may seem easier to be accompanied by other souls, but all souls are independent, unique and alone. We are simply connected by a Supreme source and we all have to find our OWN way home. Each one's churning is their own. Even if you agree with me or disagree, it istill your own acceptance of your mind and intellect to that thought. God listens to all thoughts and neither agrees or disagrees. He will help you in ways that only suit you. Even when you think you are in the same "family". That journey is yours alone. And only you know your journey, and so only you know where you are, and so you are what you are now. Whatever is inaccurate for one, is accurate.

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Re: Love to all

Post by mbbhat » 30 Jul 2009

Whatever is inaccurate for one, is accurate.
This is what Murli says- Drama is fully accurate. I agree with that. Ultimate aim is to feel inaccurate as accurate, any abnormal sitaution as fully normal. No complaints in life. Than only we will become complete.
---
But that does not imply to act blindly. While acting, we should have knowledge. That is- we can love anybody in our mind. But that does not imply entertain a thief. There we have to act using intelligence. That is why need karma philosophy.

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Re: Love to all

Post by bansy » 30 Jul 2009

I actually don't think you need much intelligence to know how to love or give love. Better to not think when you give love to anyone who comes in front, otherwise you have desires and thus such love is conditional and is limited.

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Re: Love to all

Post by arjun » 30 Jul 2009

sister bansy wrote:Better to not think when you give love to anyone who comes in front, otherwise you have desires and thus such love is conditional and is limited.
I think the following quote says it all:

Love sought is good, but given unsought is better. – Shakespeare

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Re: Love to all

Post by mbbhat » 01 Aug 2009

bansy wrote:1)I actually don't think you need much intelligence to know how to love or give love. 2) Better to not think when you give love to anyone who comes in front, 3)otherwise you have desires and thus such love is conditional and is limited.
1 and 2)Yes, we should reach to that stage. That is 100% carefree stage. That is a stage when we become able to satisfy anybody without giving them anything physically. Just a drushti, presence or even a thought will be able to satisfy others. But I believe maximum of 108 souls will attain that state.

3)It is not desire. It is just checking for correctness. Just take examples:-

a)If a child demands you knife, will you give it?

b)If a beggar comes and demands a house will you give it? You may give him food for some days.

c)If a person comes and knocks at your door even in night, will you open the door or check for whether he is a thief?

d)Why usually people give everything or maximum to their parents, children or husband/wife and not to others? [rare exceptions may be there].

So one should understand the importance of the relation. According to our relation, we give and take.

You may directly demand money from my parents with authority. Can you do the same action with a stanger?
---

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Re: Love to all

Post by bansy » 01 Aug 2009

Dear brother,
a)If a child demands you knife, will you give it?
Would ask what it is used for.
b)If a beggar comes and demands a house will you give it? You may give him food for some days.
Let's wait for the beggar to come first.
c)If a person comes and knocks at your door even in night, will you open the door or check for whether he is a thief?
Let's wait for that knock.
d)Why usually people give everything or maximum to their parents, children or husband/wife and not to others? [rare exceptions may be there].
Yes, why is that.
You may directly demand money from my parents with authority. Can you do the same action with a stanger?
In which case, you've just made your parents a stranger.

There are too many suppositions in situations. You cannot prepare in advance, there is no future to look at, only now. According to our relation, we can only give. There is always an opposing force to take, because we have been programmed to take. Where there is someone doing the taking there has to be someone doing the giving. For love, when you give, you also receive implicitly. When you think of God, all you can think is of an entity that gives love to you (you are taking from Him), and in that respect when you do that you are automatically also giving that love back to God in thoughts.

brother, I am by no means an ends to all on this matter. Giving takes a lot of practice and time (well for me it does) and even then I wonder at times if it is selfish and if it is selfless. But the moment I even think about it, then it is already selfish. Thus it is better not think when you give love to others. Just do it without expectations and results. In fact, drop the expectation and results bit altogether. Don't consider if it is accurate or inaccurate, as you will have placed a limitation on it. Just do it. It will work.

Learning to love is the essence of spirituality.

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Re: Love to all

Post by mbbhat » 03 Aug 2009

bansy wrote:1)Would ask what it is used for.

2)Let's wait for the beggar to come first.

3)Let's wait for that knock.

4)Yes, why is that.
1)If it is too young to use it?

2)How long have you been waiting for a beggar? Don't you wish to help them?

3)Good. Go on waiting.

4)The most important thing of philosophy is RELATION. According to the relation giving and taking happens. If one understands his relation with himself, God, other souls, animals, objects, nature, etc, he knows everything. One has to give preference according to his relation with others.
bansy wrote: 5)There are too many suppositions in situations. You cannot prepare in advance, there is no future to look at, only now.

6)According to our relation, we can only give.

7)When you think of God, all you can think is of an entity that gives love to you (you are taking from Him), and in that respect when you do that you are automatically also giving that love back to God in thoughts.
5)This is why we should have the knowledge before acting. Then there will not be any suppositions. We should be able to prepare. That is the goal. Even though we do not know the future in exact way, we should get faith that my present action will yield best possible result.

6)Giving what? just love or even hatredness?

7)Very interesting and important point. This is correct in one sense but in real sense it is incorrect.

Explanation:- When we think God we get power, happiness, peace etc all from God(not just love). So do you mean power, happiness, and all other things are automatically given by me to God?

Arey- This is the stage of God= Karmaateet. He gives but never takes/receives. Because he does not need anything and is above all.

But does God give? Ans:- Yes and No.

Yes- Because we really get from him and he really gives.
No- Because he does no have ego and is infinite, so does not get feeling of giving or tiredness.


This is beautifully mentioned in Bhagavadgita as - One who finds akarma(absence of action) in karma(action)and karma(action) in akarma(absence of action) is the one who is really knowledgful.

But nobody has been able to explain this. After becoming Bk I feel the right explanation is-

Do not have any feeling of action. Means do not have any desire of what you do may it be giving Baba's highest knowledge. This is the meaning of finding akarma in karma.

And have faith that- I will really get fruit even if I do nothing. That is to feel that- my life is already a success.
Such a faith only will lead to victory and this is the meaning of Jivanmukti in second.
[/quote]
bansy wrote: 7) Giving takes a lot of practice and time (well for me it does) and even then I wonder at times if it is selfish and if it is selfless.

8)But the moment I even think about it, then it is already selfish.

9)Thus it is better not think when you give love to others. Just do it without expectations and results. In fact, drop the expectation and results bit altogether.

10)Learning to love is the essence of spirituality.
7)Actually the practice is needed to fill(in self) and not to give at all. Once I fill myself giving is very simple. If one needs to give 100 dollars to a person it needs just a second. There is no need of any practice. But to give, he should have. For that he should earn. For that he should know how to earn. So there is need of KNOWLEDGE.

8)Need not be selfish. But it clearly indicates lack of maturity. That is not fully knowledgeful.

9)I agree 100%. But it is in thoughts and by virtues. But when it comes to the matter of physical materials or wealth, if you say do not think, then would you give me everything you have to me? I am asking you.

I have never said to have expectation. Expectation is worse than desire.

10)100% ture. Murli point- Tum jab Baap samaan gyaan ka saagar aur pyaar ka saagar bante ho, tab Baap samaan bante ho. = When you become Ocean of knowledge and Ocean of love like Father, you become equal to Father.

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Re: Love to all

Post by bansy » 03 Aug 2009

In a nutshell, you maybe right.

When there is love, SELF is not.

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Re: Love to all

Post by mbbhat » 04 Aug 2009

Oh Baba, let me see just YOU and all the 600 crore soul and forget SELF.

Thank you dear Soul.

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Re: Love to all

Post by sachkhand » 07 Aug 2009

AUM Shanti.

Dear Bansy,
Thank you very much for writing this post. We really need this more rather than the posts having heated debates over Murli points.

Saint Kabir had said, "Pothi padh padh jag mua pundit bhaya na koi, dhai akshar Prem ke padhe so pundit hoi."
Meaning: None has become Wise in this world by reading scriptures, those who have learnt or understood the alphabets of Love (2 and 1/2 in Hindi language of the word Prem i.e., Love literally) becomes Wise.
Thank you once again, and congratulate your understanding.
bansy wrote: Learning to love is the essence of spirituality.
I agree with mbbhat's views about dangers of inaccurate Love,
mbbhat wrote:
"How to give love- this is to be known accurately."
"Inaccurate will lead to danger also. Like in Bhakti people praise God, love God, but also defame God. Inaccurate love leads to DIVORCE in family life."
Murli dt. 1.6.85, page1: Real Love Baap se tab ho jab apne ko Aatma samjhe. (Real Love with Father is then possible when (we) understand ourselves as soul.)
And by loving The seed, we are Loving the whole creation.

Here, there are two things:
(1) Being soul conscious inorder to have Real unadulterated Love.
(2) Knowing The seed, which is to be Loved.


Both are complementary to each other.
One is getting introvert and go within. And second is being Karmyogi or being extrovert and coming outside.
For (1), we need no knowledge which needs churning. We need no learning, we need to unlearn or empty our thougths. We need presence of mind, an alert mind which reflects on itself or which tries experiencing the "I"ness within. I. I. I. I. I. ... and you are the Real You.
For (2), we surely need knowledge. And I think, this is the real crux of the Knowledge. And also the main issue of debates in this forum. In my opinion, just the faith that The seed is present now, at this moment in this world is enough for us to Love The seed. Just "Baba" with faith and Love for Him, The Unknown, too is enough. As our Love reaches Him, wherever He is in whatever form.
Shraddhavaan labhatey Gnyanam. Meaning, Faithful gets Knowledge. We need patience and continuous Purusharth. Both the above (1) and (2) will happen simultaneously one fine moment. And picture will be clear to us.
Murli dt. 19.4.85, page2: Aise nahin sirf Paramaatma ko nahin jaanate. Aatma ko bhi nahin jaanate. Aatma ko jaan jaaye to Paramaatma ko phat se jaan jaayen. Bachha apne ko jaane aur Baap ko na jaane to chal kaise sake.
(It is not that do not know Supreme Soul. Even do not know soul. If know Soul then will know Supreme Soul immediately. Child knows oneself and does not know Father then how will (he/she) follow. or translated in another way, Child knows oneself and does not know Father then how is that possible.)


THE PROBLEM: Our problem is that we get tired in our journey. We find a place for ourselves to rest. And start believing that this is our destination. We start fooling ourselves. Although we experience clearly that neither of the two mentioned above has been accomplished, still we fool ourselves and become stubborn. We force ourselves to believe and also force others to believe our accomplishment.
Actually, we have not understood the word "believe". Be and Live is believe. We neither become nor live it. We just do show of believing. Our ego stops us from accepting the truth that we are still on our way and have not reached the destination, neither within (1) nor outside (2).
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

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Re: Love to all

Post by bansy » 08 Aug 2009

Thank you very much for writing this post. We really need this more rather than the posts having heated debates over Murli points.
I feel that whilst knowledge is a part of it, the accumulation of knowledge simply means non understanding, the deconditioning. Learning can only occur when we don't know something. Debates over Murli points means we are still deficient in our understanding. If you think you know, then I suppose if anyone already knows everything, then good for their ego. Does that mean no more learning necessary ?
Here, there are two things:
(1) Being soul conscious inorder to have Real unadulterated Love.
(2) Knowing The seed, which is to be Loved.
The paradox always exist. If we are to be karmateet, then we even have no karma with God, otherwise we are are still bound and not free. HE will still be in our subconscious which means you are still not free. If you TRY to merge, then that TRY effort also means you are not free, it is still a feeling, a dependence, a want and desire.

Thoughts are our efforts. When we don't have any thoughts, not even a Murli point to ponder, then you are actually free but you will not acknowledge it because you would not recall. Any thought is something of the past. You cannot have a thought of the present. It has to be something already gone, thought presides at least 1 nanosec before the current time.

Have you ever had times when you felt your whole mind went blank and for a few moments, you are gazing into deep space, then something alerts you and you wake up. No, I am not talking about the meditation when you "artificially" try to get a connection between your soul and the Supreme Soul, that relationship is a binding one and you are holding onto a thought, so it is not liberating. I am talking about the times when you simply do not seem to even have a thought at all, the mind is simply blank when you stare and watch, say, the sky or the ripples on the water, or the trees in a moving train. That is when you are really in a liberated, soul conscious mode, no attachment to anything, unaware of time or space, no thoughts or sounds inside or out. Did you even think about God even at that time ? Could you think about God and also notice the birds flying at the same time, two thoughts at the same time ? Or was there no thought at all, only when you suddenly was alerted and you somehow recall there were birds flying in the passing window of a moving train ?

Yoga with the Supreme Soul will help you learn to love and get you through the day better, it is no much different from devotion as all devotion has love towards something. Meditation is the clearing and reduction of thoughts.

When you mind is clear of thoughts, then the entire expanse is open to you. That is what God is (i.e his power and creation) and that is what God is showing you that you can have the same expanse as He does.

Do not even hold onto the virtue of "love". To seek the virtue is another dependence. Being a virtous person is a desire and thus it is also sense of greed. To truly love, just do it and keep doing it in all situations. Do not think of the consequence as desires come out from it. These are fine matters, to love everything but not identify with love. You will also begin not to believe in God because you know that God is there so it is no longer a believe. Just like the sun is always there. But we all turn to God because we do not love enough, to ourselves first, and then to others. We have to much fear, of beggars,of strangers, of wealth and posessions, of even Murli points. We have too much fear of time. There are too many IF this happens or IF that happens, which means we are dependant on time whereas you should learn to be masters of time, not be slaves of time.

There is no meaning in what is inaccurate love. What is inaccurate evil then ? All things are accurate, because it is the THOUGHT that decides it to be either this or that. It is our CONDITIONING which brings about such thoughts. Thus it has got to be accurate. How would you ever know if you ave "accurate" love for God. What proof can you have. Such proof is another desire, so you create your own paradox. It is not easy in the lokik world we all live in, but when you stand back like God stands back, then there is no evil or good in thoughts, there is just life in thoughts. What goes outside is not of concern, it is waht is inside. A diety does not know or judge if the person who comes to worship him/her is evil or good. There is no judgement or discrimination when there is no thought. You WILL know what to do when you love more without judging if the love you give is accurate or inaccurate. Otherwise you will never progress. You are internally a loving soul, but if this simple attribute you have inside is not used, then no sort of any kind of spirituality is going to make you closer to being mukti and jeevenmukti.

PS : I may be fine tuning into this thread a bit more over time as I try to understand more of the processes of the self and that of thought.

Yes, remember Om Shanti. But for God's sake, don't just sit there and splurge tons of Murli points that are written on stone tablets, go out and love whatever and whoever you come across, easy or hard. Love makes you thoughts light in all situations. Fear makes your thoughts heavy. There are always IFS in life, but the only IF question you need to be concerned about is IF you are Om Shanti or not Om Shanti. That is the only Murli point and only thought you really need. The entire universe will be able to encapsulate you and you will be at the centre. Extra thoughts will mean less space and more barriers for your universe to come to you. There is a relationship of thoughts with the ego. Even the wish for God is a little greed. Murli points are there to guide different souls to different ways to understand their own thoughts, not of another souls. That is why one Murli point explained even by whichever "Chariot" will always be interpreted differently .

(Like I said, I am going through the journey of fine tuning. The UNconditioning of one's self. And will come back a little later hopefully. :D I don't get too much time to go on the forums these days).

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Re: Love to all

Post by sachkhand » 13 Aug 2009

AUM Shanti.
bansy wrote: Learning can only occur when we don't know something. Debates over Murli points means we are still deficient in our understanding. If you think you know, then I suppose if anyone already knows everything, then good for their ego. Does that mean no more learning necessary ?
I think I have made ample clear what I mean when I wrote, and I quote,
We really need this more rather than the posts having heated debates over Murli points.
When I wrote that debates are less important I have also written and underlined the adjective of such debates i.e., HEATED DEBATES. Debates that are emotionally charged and agressive as well as abusive. Rather than debates like them, posts like this one can be an eye-opener. My only request is let us be AUM Shanti (as Bansy too has written) i.e., peaceful and calm and try to learn and also share our views. IMHO we can learn better.
bansy wrote: Have you ever had times when you felt your whole mind went blank and for a few moments, ...
It is. Seems exaggerated. Sorry, many times.
bansy wrote: No, I am not talking about the meditation when you "artificially" try to get a connection between your soul and the Supreme Soul, that relationship is a binding one and you are holding onto a thought, so it is not liberating. I am talking about the times when you simply do not seem to even have a thought at all, the mind is simply blank ...
(2) I differ with this opinion. Relationship with Supreme Soul is not a binding. Supreme Soul does unselfish service. And hence relationship with Him cannot be a binding. But every human being, even Prajapita is selfish. And all our relationships amongst ourselves are binding and hence cause suffering sooner or later. But with Supreme Soul, that relationship liberates us from our bindings. Once I have experienced the state you have mentioned where the mind is completely blank, when I had gone to meet Baba i.e., Virendra Dev Dixit ( because then I considered that Chariot to be ShivBaba) in 1993. I was sitting in room with Virendra Dev Dixit and few other brothers. And I was trying recollecting my experience Which I had in a morning Yoga class and trying remembering Supreme Soul through Virendra Dev Dixit and I went blank. I do not know for how much time, few seconds or few minutes. Slowly I started to see and hear gushing of brothers sitting there.
bansy wrote: Do not even hold onto the virtue of "love". To seek the virtue is another dependence. Being a virtous person is a desire and thus it is also sense of greed. ...
You are internally a loving soul, but if this simple attribute you have inside ...
Are you not contradicting yourself?
First you write, Love is a virtue and think that seeking virtue is also a greed.
Later you write, Love is an attribute. And as per my knowledge, attribute (as a noun) is a quality that is natural and necessarily belongs to the person or thing. You are contradicting yourself. And further you write that we should not fail to use it in our life.
bansy wrote: PS : I may be fine tuning into this thread a bit more over time as I try to understand more of the processes of the self and that of thought.
Please do not get confused by over-working the intellect. With Love. :neutral:
bansy wrote: There is no meaning in what is inaccurate love. What is inaccurate evil then ?
There cannot be inaccurate Love.
And inaccurate evil is impossible. Because being inaccurate itself is the evil.
Therefore if you feel the love expression of yours is inaccurate then it is actually not Love, but the evil itself in disguise. Be careful.
And hence, True Love or accurate Love makes even a weak person Victorious, and inaccurate Love makes even a mighty person to fall. Beware.

I am remembering a Hindi film song,
"Babuji dheerey chalna, pyaar mein jara sambhalna, Bade dhokhe hai;
Bade dhokhe hain is raah mein." meaning,
"Gentleman, tread slowly, protect /control yourself in love, there are lots of deceptions; Lots of deceptions in this path.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

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Re: Love to all

Post by bansy » 22 Aug 2009

Just want to drop another short word of thanks and lots of love to you wherever you are.

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Re: Love to all

Post by sachkhand » 22 Aug 2009

AUM Shanti.
bansy wrote:Just want to drop another short word of thanks and lots of love to you wherever you are.
:neutral:
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

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Re: Love to all

Post by shivsena » 23 Aug 2009

sachkhand wrote:AUM Shanti.
I am remembering a Hindi film song,
"Babuji dheerey chalna, pyaar mein jara sambhalna, Bade dhokhe hai;
Bade dhokhe hain is raah mein."
meaning,
"Gentleman, tread slowly, protect /control yourself in love, there are lots of deceptions; Lots of deceptions in this path.
Sanjeev.
Dear sanjeev.

You have quoted a very appropriate song which not only aptly fits in love but also when you are in pursuit of truth. The whole path of truth is paved with mayavi deceptions(dhoka) and this is true of Godly knowledge also. BKs and PBKs both claim that they have the truth, but they do not know that they have been deceived in the name of truth and are also deceiving others. Only those who realise this fact and study the Murlis and Vanis will surmount these two obstacles(vigna) and reach the final truth and get the title of vigna-vinashak ganesh.

shivsena.

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