What is manmat ?

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bansy
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What is manmat ?

Post by bansy » 09 Aug 2009

What is it ?

For example, there is only attachment, there is no such thing as detachment. The mind invents a thing called detachment as a reaction to the pain of attachment.
When you react to attachment by becoming "detached" you are attached to something else.

Attachment to something offers escape and escape strengthens conditioning.

I even need to be "detached" from God in order to be liberated otherwise I (self) am not truly free abnd still dependent.

So is such churning considered "manmat" ?


The human mind is never free from thoughts, and as long as we are not perfect, then therefore there is always "manmat" regardless of whatever "Shrimat" (conditioning to reduce or replace other conditioning) is followed.

What is manmat ?

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Re: What is manmat ?

Post by mbbhat » 10 Aug 2009

bansy wrote:1) there is only attachment, there is no such thing as detachment. The mind invents a thing called detachment as a reaction to the pain of attachment.

2)I even need to be "detached" from God in order to be liberated otherwise I (self) am not truly free and still dependent.

3)So is such churning considered "manmat" ?

4)The human mind is never free from thoughts, and as long as we are not perfect, then therefore there is always "manmat" regardless of whatever "Shrimat" (conditioning to reduce or replace other conditioning) is followed.

5)What is manmat ?
1)There is detachment during proper sleep and while at Paramdham. But your view is correct with respect to the state being awake in a body.

2)You need not get detached from God. God himself gets detached from you. He never makes us dependent. This is explained below.

3)It is ignorance. Hence there is a percentage of manmat.

4)Agreed, But the percentage of manmat goes on reducing till we attain 100% karmaateet stage if we put right effort.

5)not being able to follow srimat is manmat.
----
1)A Murli point- “Vo log atma ko nirlep samajhte hain. Lekin atma may hee 84 janmon ka part noondhaa huvaa hai” = They consider soul as nirlep (one to which has neither anything sticken to it, nor anything could be attached to it). But soul has part of 84 births in it.

Another Murli point- Even I am bound in drama.

So how can there be 100% detachment? IMPOSSIBLE!

The law is (there are few exceptions)- more one is detached, more it will be attached(loveful). More one practices soul conscious stage, more number of births it gets.

Even God also has attachment(100% duty consciousness). That is why he is interested in(comes when) the dirtiest state of world. He excuses thousands of mistakes of BKs, PBKs as well as the wordly people to the highest possible extent. No mother can have such an attachment(tolerating children’s mistakes and educating them for their progress). Baba repeats the same words in Murlis thousands of times. He never feels shy or tired by repeating the same things. He is attached to the drama to such a high extent that he has taken the work of recharging the Iron Aged world whatever obstacle may come in his path.

But God is also detached to the same extent he is attached. Hence his all actions bear no fruit. He has no expectation for himself or for others. He just follows drama.

Be ready for everything:- Baba has kept aim(or Baba’s role is) to leave (get detached from) us as soon as his work is finished (purification of souls). That is- he will not be attached to(with us) us after we become fully pure. Relation itself will break once we go to Paramdham.

This is why Baba says- Just faith in Baba is not enough. You should have faith even in drama also. That is, Baba teaches attachment (=true relation) also with detachment. This will help us in bringing balance between karma and Yoga and make us matured.

SM 8-9-73(4):- Jo naam roop may phaste hain unko hee Bandar bandaree kaha jata hai. Purushaarth karke Baap ko Yaad karte raho jo pichaadi may phir aur koyi cheez Yaad na aave. Deh ko bhool jaavenge to sabhee bhool jaavegaa. – 120-

=Those who stick to name and form are monkeys. Keep doing effort, remembering Father so that in the end you do not get remembrance of anyone else. When/if you forget the body, everything will be forgotten.


There is another Murli point that says- forgetting the body and remembering the Father is one and the same. . This point gave me 100% freedom about remembrance of Baba. From that day, I felt there is no need to remember Baba. Any effort put to forget body will tie us in the company of Baba naturally.

So what I feel is- when I reach that stage [capable of forgetting the newest incidences in a second= able to forget all the things and actions as soon as they are being performed= like an actor easily forgets/(gets detached) what all has been performed by him. His concentration is always on the next step of action(future) and not at all on the past actions], I become really detached. By that time, I become Baap samaan= equal to the Father. The internal feeling will be as if I AM GOD HIMSELF*. There will be no dependency of Baba even if I remember Baba maximum. That is remembrance has become 100% natural.

*more explanation:- after understanding the knowledge, one does not feel that he is dependent on knowledge. He feels as if he is embodiment of knowledge. He had already mastered it. KNOWLEDGE HAD BECOME PART OF HIM ITSELF. Similarly when our Yoga attains 100% natural stage, we attain leen avastha = merged in God. Both are together always, combined form.

In one sentence we can say that depending just on God is the real independence, because God alone is independent (uninfluenced) in this drama and he is never selfish. Not only that he is the seed of the tree. So how can we think of forgetting God to become independent?

[The power, beauty and speciality of God has made Bhaktimarg people to think God as omnipresence, omnipotent, present in every particle of nature. And since God really makes feel totally independent and powerful as equal to him, in Bhakti people considered soul as equal to Supreme Soul(I am God, Shivohum= I am Shiva).

I feel God is so detached from his own status that he agrees to share his all the glories with a common soul]. [Oh God, how great you are - I became emotional now
]

The speciality of drama is- the knowledge of drama is only in Baba. Even Baba is bound. So we can never get more freedom than Baba since we have received the knowledge, power, virtues, etc from Baba.

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Re: What is manmat ?

Post by bansy » 10 Aug 2009

Thanks for the reply, but it wasn't what I had in mind,... i.e. the Murli points.

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Re: What is manmat ?

Post by mbbhat » 11 Aug 2009

Dear Bansy soul,

I also had guessed about that= I have written something extra or a certain deviation. But I felt that this would definitely help in clearing that matter.

Thank You

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Re: What is manmat ?

Post by arjun » 11 Aug 2009

sister bansy wrote:What is manmat ?
Anything done through thoughts, words or actions against the Shrimat and based on one's own opinion is manmat.
For example, there is only attachment, there is no such thing as detachment. The mind invents a thing called detachment as a reaction to the pain of attachment.
When you react to attachment by becoming "detached" you are attached to something else.

Attachment to something offers escape and escape strengthens conditioning.

I even need to be "detached" from God in order to be liberated otherwise I (self) am not truly free abnd still dependent.

So is such churning considered "manmat" ?
May be yes, because Murlis advocate 'one Baba and none else'.

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Re: What is manmat ?

Post by shivsena » 22 Aug 2009

bansy wrote: What is manmat ?
Dear bansy.

According to me, anything which is contra-dictory to what is said in Murlis and Vanis is manmat and anything which takes the soul/souls in girti kalaa is manmat(manushya mat).

i think that advance knowledge fits in perfectly to this definition, as it is Bharat(Krishna's) invention which is taking all pbk souls (including himself) in girti kalaa and is completely contradictory to what is said in Murlis. [Murli point: "Bharat is responsible for his own downfall and the downfall of others"]

shivsena.

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