God's Chariot and its name

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by mbbhat » 13 Jun 2010

Dear PBKs,

OK- let us agree that Shiv does not enter in Gulzar. Just Brhama Baba enters in that body. I do not lose much. Because when shiv has alread said- I take responsibility of all the words spoken by Brahma and also have said- you consider even words of Brahma as those of ShivBaba, there is no need to divert.

Now- how do you explain the following Murli point?

SM 30-6-81(3):- Sabhi besamajh ban gaye hain. Baap sabhi bachchon ko kahte hain tum kitne besamajh ban gaye ho. Kya main byel ke oopar savari karta hun jo tum mandir may byel dikhate ho? Main to EK HEE BAAR EK HEE TAN may AATAA hun.

= All have become fools. Father tells to all the children how much fools you have become? You show bull in the temple. Do I ride on bull? I COME JUST ONCE AND JUST IN ONE BODY.

So let us agree that Shiv does not come in Dadai and according to BK belief Shiv was there from 1936 to 1969.

Now- you please explain how can you say just one body?

According to you- at least three bodes- sevakram, brahma Baba and Dixit

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by arjun » 13 Jun 2010

Om Shanti. It has been mentioned umpteen number of times on this forum that Shiv entered in Dada Lekhraj to play the role of just a mother. He played the role of a Father through Brahma Baba's partner (whatver his name) who later on took rebirth as Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. So, it is only through the body of one soul that Shiv plays the role of a Father.

Brahma is the bail (bull) on whom Shankar rides and it is in Shankar that Shiv enters.

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by mbbhat » 14 Jun 2010

It has been mentioned umpteen number of times on this forum that Shiv entered in Dada Lekhraj to play the role of just a mother. He played the role of a Father through Brahma Baba's partner (whatver his name) who later on took rebirth as Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit. So, it is only through the body of one soul that Shiv plays the role of a Father.
Thank you.

This is what I asked- how many chariots God needs? Just one or two?

Also when you say shiv played role of mother though Lekhraj, how can you say that as temporary Chariot? Does the role of mother is temporary?

Brahma is the bail (bull) on whom Shankar rides and it is in Shankar that Shiv enters
You said- Brahma is mother. Then how can he be bull? He should be cow, is it not?

But you had said- Soul of Brahma also enters in Mr. Dixit. So how come Shankar riding over Brahma? It should be like Brahma riding over Shankar it is not?

Or do you believe- Brahma acts according to directions of Shankar= Mr. Dixit?

Also Why not bull or Shankar is shown in temple of Brahma?
a pbk wrote- ...Brahma Baba is currently understanding the actual essence of Murli,through Baba Dixit's body.Right now , it is Brahma Baba an incomplete yogi who is riding on the bull. The day Brahma Baba understands that it is not Krishna who is Gita bhagwan,that is the time he will be complete, & then Shankar will be riding the bull.The Half moon on Shankar's head is another indication of the Incomplete stage of Brahma.
Have you explained details of part of Shankar? If explained, please guide the links. Else you can explain in the thread Shankar's part? - http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1995

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Fixed and Temporary chariots

Post by mbbhat » 14 Jun 2010

Something more about mukrar(fixed) rath:-

PBKs question BKs how Brahma Baba can be called as fixed Chariot when he has changed into Gulzaar Dadi and etc.

Now let us see to what extent BKs can defend themselves in this= How Brahma Baba is fixed Chariot?

Till 1969, God used Brahma Baba’s corporeal body as the Chariot. Even after 1969, God uses subtle body of Brahma more than that of corporeal body of Gulzaar Dadi (for vision, trance, message, etc).

Also Shiv uses even soul of Brahma in his work= Brahma also speaks through Dadi during Avyakt Murli!.

Even while entering Gulzar Dadi, God is not alone. HE IS STILL WITHIN THE SUBTLE BODY OF BRAHMA.

SO WHEN GOD DOES HIS WORK, EITHER CORPOREAL OR SUBTLE BODY OF BRAHMA IS ALWAYS WITH HIM.

Also when we say- Murli (both Sakar and Avyakt)- it is of words of two personalities- Shiv and Brahma. Dadi cannot interfere in Murli. Children while listening to Sakar Murlis will be in conscious of Shiv and Brahma and also in the same conscious even during avykat Murlis.

So- the meaning of term Baapdada remains unchanged even after 1969 and Baapdada also they work together in combined form.

PBKs say Brahma Baba is temporary Chariot and Mr. Dixit as permanent Chariot. [Even though no word in Murli says- permanent!]

If they say mukrar(fixed) rath is Mr. Dixit, they should not give any importance to Sevakram’s Murli (=piyu ki Murli according to their belief) because Sevakram is not permanent Chariot.

Will PBKs explain the following- Who is Baapdada from 1936 to 1942 (Till Sevakram existed), from 1942 to 1969 and also after that?

Because for Baba has also said the name of the Chariot can be called as Baapdaada- Already put in this thread. Also has said- Always consider Baapdada is combined.

For BK point of view, this sits properly, because they believe Shiv is always with Brahma whole doing his work of creation. But PBKs believe Brahma can leave Shiv and enter in Dadi speak Murli/Vani.

When PBKs cannot explain anything in this regard, is it not foolishness to put such questions?

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by mbbhat » 15 Jun 2010

Arun soul wrote- Om Shanti. It has been mentioned umpteen number of times on this forum that Shiv entered in Dada Lekhraj to play the role of just a mother. He played the role of a Father through Brahma Baba's partner (whatver his name) who later on took rebirth as Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit. So, it is only through the body of one soul that Shiv plays the role of a Father.


So- do you believe- part of Father started from 1937 to 42 and part of mother from 1942 to 69 and after 1969?

I think PBKs say- after 1969 they have both Father and mother.

so- how does Shiv play role of mother after 1969 when there is no body for soul of Dada Lekhraj?

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Re: Who is Adi Dev and Adi Devi?

Post by mbbhat » 16 Jun 2010

arjun wrote: For me it is 'Yes'. But will the entire world believe my words? No. So, he will get the title only when he gets revealed as the Father of all the religious fathers (Adam, Aadam, Adi Dev).
The whole world does not believe or know about bk and pbk.

So do you like to keep title of now?

Forget the world, even in BK family no one accepts so called PBKs as real PBKs. so do you think you are not eligible for the title?

People do not know who is God. Some people do not believe in existence of God. So do you say even God is not eligible to keep the title God now?
Arjun wrote:- My views are like this:- When Prajapita becomes pure, he is eligible for the title Adi Dev.
I also believe the same. When do you think Prajapita is will become pure?

You have said Mr. Dixit is in contant remembrance of shiv since 1969 (hope i am right).

Is his spiritual stage continuously becoming better?

If yes, how much percentage of his past sins are cleared after 1969 and before 1969?

My doubt/question is - if he has no karmic account left, he should be already pure.

Else if he still has karmic account, then even continuous remembrance of ShivBaba since 1969 has not made him pure?
Then how other souls can get confidence of getting pure?

PBKs believe sahaj Yaad= easy remembrance due to remembering through Sakar body.

then how come easy remembrance for 31 yrs (1969 to 2010) has not yet purified Mr. Dixit?

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by ak1972 » 06 Jul 2010

Sakar Vani dated 4.4.67 unedited version page 3 in the middle portion"

Bhagirath ya mukarar rath kaon hein,abh kisi ko patah nahin.


This Vani was said during the time of Brahma baba,then is it not very clear that in 1967,it is being referred to a future date.
Requesting all to read it first if they can get a copy & then discuss.Please do not raise q just for the sake of raising 1.

OGS

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by Sach_Khand » 07 Jul 2010

ak1972 wrote:Sakar Vani dated 4.4.67 unedited version page 3 in the middle portion"

Bhagirath ya mukarar rath kaon hein,abh kisi ko patah nahin.


This Vani was said during the time of Brahma Baba,then is it not very clear that in 1967,it is being referred to a future date.
Requesting all to read it first if they can get a copy & then discuss.Please do not raise q just for the sake of raising 1.
Is it not better to give the Murli or the point with some more details, like few sentences before and after the above Murli sentence quoted by ak1972. Because by reading few sentences before and after any Murli point we can understand the point better. If not there are chances of misunderstanding it.

What does it mean when it is said that "ShivBaba abhi gupt hai"?
No one really knows about ShivBaba !!?

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by ak1972 » 18 Jul 2010

Even if i give, you are neither in Bk or PBK,so what difference will that make for some 1 who does not understand what role is being played by whom.Firstly, you will need to be clear on who is coming in whose body to understand the god's Chariot & it's name.

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by Sach_Khand » 18 Jul 2010

ak1972 wrote:Even if i give, you are neither in BK or PBK,so what difference will that make for some 1 who does not understand what role is being played by whom.Firstly, you will need to be clear on who is coming in whose body to understand the god's Chariot & it's name.
After knowing that what is needed? You have your own faith. It is just your faith, and others have their faith. So, you should not have problem with others faith. It is only when ShivBaba gives His introduction then He will be revealed.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by nivi » 19 Jul 2010

ShivBaba is only gupt(incognito) in front of others or those who make him the enemy..He is very much active, and present in front of his children..Father is never far from his children...It very much depends on how much 'Yaad' & ' love' we have for him.

Nivi

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by Sach_Khand » 19 Jul 2010

nivi wrote:ShivBaba is only gupt(incognito) in front of others or those who make him the enemy..He is very much active, and present in front of his children..Father is never far from his children...It very much depends on how much 'Yaad' & ' love' we have for him.
Nivi
Similarly, the reply to your following question,
ak1972 » 06 Jul 2010
"]Sakar Vani dated 4.4.67 unedited version page 3 in the middle portion"

Bhagirath ya mukarar rath kaon hein,abh kisi ko patah nahin.

This Vani was said during the time of Brahma Baba,then is it not very clear that in 1967,it is being referred to a future date.
Reply: Mukarrar rath of ShivBaba is only unknown to others or those who make him the enemy..He is very much known and also active, and present in front of his children..Father is never far from his children...It very much depends on how much 'Yaad' & ' love' we have for him.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by nivi » 20 Jul 2010

To all of you who are having doubts about Shiv Baba, mukkarar rath/God's Chariot, do you all need a DNA test to proof it??? After all the proof provided in Murli's, those who took advance knowledge, did bhatti and signed Nischay patra( stamped legal document confirming this is your alokik mother & Father) do you still have doubts?? Wow you must be lacking so much love in your life..I am simply shocked by this behavior!

Does your lokik children or wife doubt you are the Father of your children?? Do they ask you to provide proof like blood test etc.??Is it not enough you care for them, provide them, feed them, educate them, give them inheritance?? After all you provide for them do they still doubt you are their Father? How would that make you feel? If you are man enough just STEP forward and answer this question.

Nivi

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by ak1972 » 23 Jul 2010

OM Shanti NIVi,

Please don't waste time with souls who just want to kill time asking same q again & again.They have been answered by many,but if they choose to be ignorant or have only limited understanding powers,you cant help.

OGS

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Re: God's Chariot and its name

Post by mbbhat » 24 Jul 2010

ak1972 wrote:Sakar Vani dated 4.4.67 unedited version page 3 in the middle portion"

Bhagirath ya mukarar rath kaon hein,abh kisi ko patah nahin.


This Vani was said during the time of Brahma Baba,then is it not very clear that in 1967,it is being referred to a future date.
SM 16-5-81(3):- Bhagavaan niraakaar hai. Vah kab punarjanm may aate nahin. Alowkik divvy janm lete hain. Khud hi samjhate hain SAADHAARAN BOODHE TAN MAY AATAA HUN JISKO KEE BHAAGEERATH KAHTE HAIN. Brahma dwara hi rachna rachte hain. TOH NAAM BRAHMA RAKHA JATA HAI MANUSHY KA. Vyakt Brahma se phir pavan Avyakt pharista bante hain. -26

= ... I come in ordinary old body which is called as Bhaageerath.

So it is clear that old body is bhaageerath. Mtr. Dixit is not old. So it clearly refers to Brahma Baba.

Another point:-

SM 13-11-82(1, 2):- Main to saadhaaran tan may pravesh karke aataa hun. Inkey 84 janmon ki kahaani tumko sunaataa hun. TUM BHI BRAHMA MUKHVAMSHAVALI AAKAR BANEY HO. Inkaa naam hai bhaageerath arthaath bhaagyashaali rath. KYONKI PAHLEY2 YAH SUNTE HAIN AUR YAHI SOUBHAAGYASHAALI BANTAA HAI. Is samay saari duniyaa dourbhaagyashaali hai. -54

= you also have become mouth born progeny of Brahma (So it is not for future date!). The name of this is bhaageerath means fortune Chariot. Because this only hears first.

A little more details are here- Post No. 93- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... zar#p12058

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