An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Mainly DEDICATED to Ex-BKs.
A neutral forum for congenial discussions and reservations related to the Godly Knowledge between ALL parties.
mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3193
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a BK and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 22 Aug 2012

arjun wrote: It is not your fault.
At least now you understood the fact. Good.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by arjun » 22 Aug 2012

:cool:

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3193
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a BK and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 22 Aug 2012

SM 11-2-89(2):- Abhee tumko ekdum gyaan kaa tanth milaa hai. SHURU MAY TOH PURAANAA HEE GYAAN THAA. DHEERAY2 TUM SAMAJHTE HEE AAYE HO. ABHEE SAMAJHTE HAIM GYAAN TOH SACHMUCH ABHEE HUMKO MILTAA HAI. Baap bhee kahte hain aaj main tumko guhy2 baatein sunaataa hun. PHAT SE TO KOYI JEEVANMUKTI PAA NAHEEN SAKTAA. SAARAA GYAAN UTHAA NAHEEN SAKTAA. Pahley yah seedhee kaa chitr thode hee thaa. Ab samajhte hain yah barobar hai. Hum aise chakr lagaate hain. Hum hee swadarshan chakradhaaree hain. Baba se hum aatmaavon ko saare chakr kaa raaz samjhaa diyaa hai. PAHLEY KHYAAL KIYAA KI SEEDHEE KO CHAKR MAY LAAVE. PARANTU SEEDHEE KAISE CHAKR MAY AAVEGEE. INMEY TO SIRF BHAARATAVAASEE HEE DIKHAAYE HAIN. CHAKR MAY TO AUR DHARMVAALE BHEE HAIN. Vah sab dharm peeche2 aate rahte hain. -57 [second, atom bomb, chitr, gyaan]

= now, you are getting the essence of the knowledge. In the beginning the knowledge was old only. Slowly2 you started to understand. Now, you understand/feel that it is now we are really/actually getting the knowledge. Father says- I tell you deep points. In an instant no one can get liberation in life. One cannot imbibe the full knowledge. ... Initially, a thought had come- the Ladder be placed in the picture of wheel. But can it be placed there? (Because) in the Ladder just bharatavsaais are shown. In the wheel, other religions are also present....
------------------
SM 25-2-83(3):- Baap kahte hain din pratidin tumko bahut guhy baatein sunaate hain. Sab gyaan ikattaa toh nahin denge. Pahley halka sunate hain. Dinn pratidin guhy hota jaataa hai. Sab guhy baatein ek samay kaise sunavoongaa? Jo kuch samjhaya thaa vahi kalp pahley bhi samjhaayaa thaa. Ismey koyi samshay ki baath nahin hai. AISEY NAHIN KI AAGE TOH Baba AISEY KAHTHAY THAY. ABHI PHIR AISEY KAHTE HAIN. AREY PAHLEY TOH PAHLAA CLASS THAA. Abhi bahut points hain jo aur nikalti rahengi. Jahaan jiyenge Baba sunaate rahenge. -80 [gyaan, WOT]

= Father says- everyday i tell you very deep points. all the knowledge will not be given together. Initially, light (knowledge0 was spoken. As days pass, it becomes deeper. How can all the deep points be told at one time. What all the things, I had told you, they were said even in the previous Kalpa. There is nothing to doubt in this. It is not that- why previously Baba used to say this, now why this (different)? Arey- initially, it was first standard. Now, there are points which are going to come. till you live, Baba would be giving.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by arjun » 22 Aug 2012

Thanks for the above points. They support the advance knowledge as well as the newer and deeper knowledge being given by ShivBaba to the PBKs since 1976.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3193
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a BK and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 22 Aug 2012

arjun wrote:Thanks for the above points. They support the Advanced Knowledge as well as the newer and deeper knowledge being given by ShivBaba to the PBKs since 1976.
It may seem so to those who are in dream. But actually does not. Because-

1)The Murli point never says that god will shift his HQ from BKWSU to AIVV. If AIVV claims so (as you have mentioned) then even the other splinter groups also can claim. so- it would be like this. in the absence of the king (soul of DL in corporeal media), citizens claiming for that place.

2)moreover still Avyakt Vanis are coming through BKWSU only. so- they can be the newer points.

3) When the Chariot of PBKs still depend on Avyakt Vanis from BKWSU and the soul of DL and the 2.25 lakh souls, etc, then all the claims of AIVV fall into mud.

Of course, PBKs can pat their back (like what Baba says- miyaamittu).

4) the Murli point never says to interpret the meaning of the Murli point according to one's needs. but PBKs do so.

Moreover when AIVV calls BKs like kouravs, hiranyakashyap,etc and say they respect Murli and have truth from the same Murli, it is as good as having milk in one hand and eating mud from the other.

They read Murli from BKWSU and say we are above BKWSU. It is like an Indian depending on some imported things and saying, I am above that country (from where the thing had come).

5)And PBKs lose right to stick to old Murli points and comment on BKWSU that- it violates srimath, this is Bhakti, one should remember in corporeal , etc.

All the claims what PBKs do on basis of old Murli points - lose value automatically.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3193
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a BK and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 22 Aug 2012

SM 4-8-79(2, 3):- PADHAAYI MAY BHI JAISE2 PADHTE2 JAATE HAI, TOH PHIR PAHLEY KI HALKI PADHAYI APLH BE AADI THODE HEE Yaad RAHTI HAI. VAH PHIR BHOOL JAATE HAIN. TUMKO BHI KAHENGE ABHI TUMHAARAA GYAAN BADAL GAYAA HAI. AREY, PADHAAYI MAY OOPAR CHADHTE JAATE HAIN TOH PAHLEY PADHAAYI BHOOLTI JAATI HAI NA. Baap bhi humko nity nayi2 baatein sunaate hain. Pahley halki padhayi thi, ab Baap guhy2 baatein sunaate rahte hain. Gyaan kaa saagar hai na. SUNAATE2 PHIR PICHAADI MAY DO AKSHAR KAH DETE ALPH KO SAMJHAA TOH BHI KAAFI HAI. Alph ko jaan_ney se Be ko jaan hee lenge. Tum bachche jaante ho ShivBaba se swarg ki Baadashahi ka humko varsaa miltaa hai. Baap rachtaa hee hai nayi duniya (ka). Itnaa sirf samjhaavo toh bhi theek hai. JO JAASTI JYAAN DHAARAN NAHIN KAR SAKTEY VAH OONCH PAD PA NAHIN SAKTEY. PASS WITH HONOUR HO NA SAKEY. KARMAATEET AVASTHAA KO PAA NA SAKEY. ISMEY BADI MEHNATH CHAHIYE. Yaad KI BHI MEHNATH HAI, GYAAN DHARAN KARNEY MAY BHI MEHNATH HAI. Donon may sab hoshiyaar ho jaaye, so bhi toh ho na sakey. Raajdhaani sthaapan ho rahi hai. -5, 5- [Yaad, atom bomb, padhaayi, alph_bey]

= In study, as one keeps on studying, the older, lighter one, Alaf and Bey, etc (mostly a,b, c, d, etc) will be forgotten. (Others) will tell you- "now your knowledge has changed". Arey- as one moves higher class, the older knowledge is forgotten, is it not? Father tells you new points everyday. Initially, it was lighter education. Now, Father explains deeper points. He is ocean of knowledge, is it not? After teaching and teaching, in the end, (Father) will say two words- even if you understand Alaf it is enough. When you understand Alaf, you will also automatically/definitely understand Bey. You children know that we get kingdom of heaven from ShivBaba. Father is creator of new world. even if you explain just this much, it is enough. Those who cannot imbibe more knowledge, cannot get high status. ...

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by arjun » 22 Aug 2012

It may seem so to those who are in dream. But actually does not.
Another big lecture. Same arguements and same criticism of PBKs. Nothing new.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Aug 2012

I wish we knew what Lekhraj Kirpalani was actually referring to at the time he said what he said that because without doing so ... it is not possible to comment.

It is pointless to speculate.

Now we know that there was no mention of Shiva in the religion until around 1950 (I believe the PBKs say 1947 but I am not sure), we have to look at the available Sakar Murlis in a different light.

For example, now we know *why* there was such an importance placed on God not being omnipresent ... because the BKs believed God was omnipresent until around 1950.

mbbhat, can you step out of your current mode for just a moment and tell us what the BK are currently teaching about this ... how and when and through whom did the actual revelation of Shiva finally happen?

How can such an important thing happen and there be no record of it?

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3193
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a BK and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

fluffy bunny wrote:1) what the BK are currently teaching about this ... how and when and through whom did the actual revelation of Shiva finally happen?

2)How can such an important thing happen and there be no record of it?
1) I think it is through DL only. There are no records about Sevakram being inside Yagya in sources outside, except in Anti Om Mandli. So- I think the Chariot is DL only till 1969. for change of name from Prajapati to Shiv- i will have to write my views separately.
2)I am not surprised about missing records. Because these illiterate females- Dadis and Didis - will not habit of keeping such records. When they have thrown Murlis, then why should they keep these things?
And why should one keep records of old Murlis.

And children were laughing about Baba sometimes (could not believe fully) used to say- your centres would be opened even in foreign countries, etc. [when the number of centres were not even two digits, it was very difficult for many to believe such things]
because the BKs believed God was omnipresent until around 1950.
I do not know about this. Do you think- BKs believed that god Brahma is omnipresent?
-------
But, now, i think- i will write my views in a separate thread. But, I cannot say- i can convince.

Rudraakash
Posts: 46
Joined: 30 Jun 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Truth Of Rudra Gyaan

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by Rudraakash » 23 Aug 2012

Dear bhatt, Do you understand the mean of mu point, which you have posted. Or have you decided only just to post the points whether its mean clear or not.
SM 4-8-79(2, 3):- PADHAAYI MAY BHI JAISE2 PADHTE2 JAATE HAI, TOH PHIR PAHLEY KI HALKI PADHAYI APLH BE AADI THODE HEE Yaad RAHTI HAI. VAH PHIR BHOOL JAATE HAIN. TUMKO BHI KAHENGE ABHI TUMHAARAA GYAAN BADAL GAYAA HAI. AREY, PADHAAYI MAY OOPAR CHADHTE JAATE HAIN TOH PAHLEY PADHAAYI BHOOLTI JAATI HAI NA. Baap bhi humko nity nayi2 baatein sunaate hain.
1-In study, as one keeps on studying, the older, lighter one, Alaf and Bey, etc (mostly a,b, c, d, etc) will be forgotten. (Others) will tell you- "now your knowledge has changed". Arey- as one moves higher class, the older knowledge is forgotten, is it not?
Now who will give us new knowledge to forget the old one?
In every BKs center read only paper mu. Without any explaintion or clarification, only COPY AND PASTE. There is no newness with knowledge except editing or cutting according manmat.
But Point is saying the teacher and study will remain continue till the end, and he (Shiv Baba not Didi, Dada, Dadi ) will teach you NEW BRAND points day by day. But YOU BELIEVE BLINDLY THAT THERE IS NO NEED, BECAUSE NOW WE ARE SHIVOHM.
Just compare between your understanding and mu. View. Both Are not intersecting each other?
. Baap bhi humko nity nayi2 baatein sunaate hain. Pahley halki padhayi thi, ab Baap guhy2 baatein sunaate rahte hain. Gyaan kaa saagar hai na. SUNAATE2 PHIR PICHAADI MAY DO AKSHAR KAH DETE ALPH KO SAMJHAA TOH BHI KAAFI HAI. Alph ko jaan_ney se Be ko jaan hee lenge
Same as above.
And no need to know who is ALAF, BE AND ALLAH.
JO JAASTI JYAAN DHAARAN NAHIN KAR SAKTEY VAH OONCH PAD PA NAHIN SAKTEY. PASS WITH HONOUR HO NA SAKEY. KARMAATEET AVASTHAA KO PAA NA SAKEY. ISMEY BADI MEHNATH CHAHIYE. Yaad KI BHI MEHNATH HAI, GYAAN DHARAN KARNEY MAY BHI MEHNATH HAI. Donon may sab hoshiyaar ho jaaye, so bhi toh ho na sakey. Raajdhaani sthaapan ho rahi hai. -5, 5-
But every BKs says no need to go in the depth of knowledge otherwise Maya will catch you.
What nonsense undertanding, which is totally against shreemat!

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3193
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a BK and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

But every BKs says no need to go in the depth of knowledge otherwise Maya will catch you.
What nonsense undertanding, which is totally against shreemat!
OK, dear soul- I may be against srimath. You are far better than me. Be happy.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3193
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a BK and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

Rudr soul wrote- Now who will give us new knowledge to forget the old one?
as if claiming the Murli point/s points apply to PBK philosophy as there is drastic change in the BKWSU teaching and AIVV teaching.
-------
SM 27-1-78(2):- Manushyon ki buddhi may toh vahee Gita ka Gyan hai. AAGE HUMAARI BUDHHI MAY BHI VAHEE PURAANAA Gita KA GYAAN THAA. VAHEE Gita OM MANDALI MAY SUNAATE THAY. Parantu abhi guhy baatein suntey2 saare raaz ko samajh gaye hain. MANUSHY BHI KAHTE HAIN AAGE AAPKAA GYAAN AUR THAA. AB TO BAHUT ACHCHAA HAI. Ab samajh gaye hain ki kaise gruhasth vyavahaar may rahte kamal phool ban_naa hai. -35-


= People have in their intellect the old Gita only. Before, even in our intellect, we had the same old Gita. We used to listen/speak the same old Gita in Om Mandli. But now, listening to deep points, we have understood all the essence/secrets. People also say- before your knowledge was something different. Now it is good. ....
---------------
If PBKs claim such Murli points refer to their philosophy,

1)Who says "Before your knowledge was something different, now it is good"?
Who is "manushy (people)" in the Murli point?

2)It is clear that BKWSU the concept had changed a lot from 1936 to 1950. BKWSU does not need support of their old teachings (say those of 1936 to 1946) to prove the changes those have happened in BKWSU. But, AIVV needs old Murli points (say those of 1965 to 1969) to prove their changes (after 1976)?
----
3)One more thing is- PBKs believe that seed stage souls are PBKs, and next stage souls are BKs in all religions, etc. Then-

How much changes have had occurred in BKWSU from 1936 to 1950 and then after 1969, etc,,,, same thing (replica) should also happen even in AIVV, is it not?

So- what is the change in the core belief that had occurred in AIVV from 1976 till now?

4)And are PBKs forgetting the old one? They are remembering more and more about the old one's (about Sevakram time itself) and also comment on BKWSU that it violates srimaths on the basic of the old Murli points only!

5)The Murli point also says- that- "now, listening to deep points, we have understood all the essence/secrets".

So- how can then the essence will change? also note that the essence in BK philosophy has not at all changed there after. They all believe in the same personality as Prajapita Brahma and do the same method of remembrance and the same maatpita souls as number one and number two. So- does not this imply that there is no need to go to AIVV as per this Murli point and hence claims of AIVV are false?


OK- let us agree that the essence will change and hence AIVV is established by ShivBaba himself. Then what is the guarantee that there cannot be another change from AIVV to some other thing?

Rudraakash
Posts: 46
Joined: 30 Jun 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Truth Of Rudra Gyaan

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by Rudraakash » 24 Aug 2012

bhat ji wrote,
1)Who says "Before your knowledge was something different, now it is good"?
Who is "manushy (people)" in the Murli point
No doubt, above words are by Shiva,
But you are forgetting and thinking only in LIMITED sense,and getting the limited mean to his version. But Baba says in mu,
Behad ka baap, Behad ke bacho se, BEHAD KI BAATE karte hai,
Hence according to you, Shiva's word are limited and valid upto 1950,
But in actual his words have deep mean in itself and now (after 69) it has subtle mean, because now baapdada working in Subtle Region and
The MANUSYA word indicates towards BKs, who think baapdada has gone to Paramdham,

Its(manusya) indication is also given in av.
PEOPLE THINK THAT BAAPDADA HAS GONE TO Paramdham, but BAAP Dada CAN MEET TO HIS CHILDREN WHENEVR AND WHEREVER.
Now if you takes its mean limited sense and apply for outer world, then it'll be quite foolishness, because the outer world or lokik people even do't know who is BAAPDADA where they are,
Now after 69 the knowledge will continue with unlimiled sense and continue till the end, because he has already spoken, in above mu,
Posted by you

.Bhat wrote-
Baap bhi humko nity nayi2 baatein sunaate hain. Pahley halki padhayi thi, ab Baap guhy2 baatein sunaate rahte hain. Gyaan kaa saagar hai na. SUNAATE2 PHIR PICHAADI MAY DO AKSHAR KAH DETE ALPH KO SAMJHAA TOH BHI KAAFI HAI. Alph ko jaan_ney se Be ko jaan hee lenge
So same version are valid after 69, but unlimited sense.

2)It is clear that BKWSU the concept had changed a lot from 1936 to 1950. BKWSU does not need support of their old teachings (say those of 1936 to 1946) to prove the changes those have happened in BKWSU. But, AIVV needs old Murli points (say those of 1965 to 1969) to prove their changes (after 1976)?

After 69 The changes are going on by Dehdhari Guru manmat not shreemat.
Starting knowledge is not important for you, because you are forgetting the word AADI SO ANT.

How much changes have had occurred in BKWSU from 1936 to 1950 and then after 1969, etc,,,, same thing (replica) should also happen even in AIVV, is it not?
Only Dehdhari are responsible for entire changing and made their life luxuries, which is looking like SONE KE LANKA.
)And are PBKs forgetting the old one? They are remembering more and more about the old one's (about Sevakram time itself) and also comment on BKWSU that it violates srimaths on the basic of the old Murli points only
Untill the foundation will not proper how can the good building construct?
5)The Murli point also says- that- "now, listening to deep points, we have understood all the essence/secrets"
Then what is the essence of shastra story?
Who was that Ram, who broke the bow made by BONES OF DADHICHI RASHI(Dadhichi rishi is non other than Brahma or DL who did haddi 2 purusarth in Brahmin family)?

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3193
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a BK and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 24 Aug 2012

Rudraakash wrote: The MANUSYA word indicates towards BKs, who think baapdada has gone to Paramdham,
According to the Murli point- those manushy say- "your knowledge had changed and it is now it is good".

To whom these BKs are addressing the above? and what change they observed there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
you are forgetting the word AADI SO ANT.
I have put my views here much before.

http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t= ... =beginning
------------
Then what is the essence of shastra story?...
I did not ask what is the essence of shastras according to PBKs*.
I asked why Murli point says- we have understood all the essence (before 1969 itself)?

*If you can give essence for every shastra point or major incidents, i can give a list of questions in the other thread-
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t ... 381#p42381

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3193
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a BK and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: An Atom Bomb from ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 24 Aug 2012

Untill the foundation will not proper how can the good building construct?
I think PBKs do not know the details, like - place, date of birth of Sevakram and Yagya history from beginning. The roles of Sevakram, gitamata and Radha bachchi, etc what they claim are almost unknown.

So- without knowing these- Can the teaching being given by AIVV and their claims regarding for future- can be correct according to their own words?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests