Process of adoption by God

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Process of adoption by God

Post by mbbhat » 14 Nov 2009

BKs believe God adopts through Brahma who is Prajapita. They belive Prajapita is both Father and mother. When God adopts they believe Prajapita takes role of mother.

The real Jagadamba is Brahma who has no mother. Because he is adopted directly from God by ENTRANCE. All others got created/adopted by mouth of Brahma. Hence Brahma/Prajapita= Dada Lekhraj is mother of all others.

So, here is no confusion.
----
PBKs believe Prajapita is not Badi Maa (Big mother). But PBKs belive Prajapita is also mother.

Will PBKs explain how the following got adopted? That is by whom and how?

1)Prajapita
2)Dada Lekhraj,
3)Aadi Maata (Aadi Brahma)
4)Another lady - Iforgot name. may be Radha bachchi- I suppose.

Also will PBKs explain how Prajapita plays role of mother?

According to PBKs, there are 4/5 Brahmas and at least many Jagadambas {I think Om Radhe, aadi Mata, Dada Lekhraj and may be even Vedanti Bhen]. Now do they believe there are similarly 4/5 Jagatpitas?

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by arjun » 14 Nov 2009

Will PBKs explain how the following got adopted? That is by whom and how?

1)Prajapita
2)Dada Lekhraj,
3)Aadi Maata (Aadi Brahma)
4)Another lady - Iforgot name. may be Radha bachchi- I suppose.
1)Prajapita = By Shiv through the First Brahma.
2) Dada Lekhraj = Through the first/second mother.
3) Aadi/First Brahma = Shiv entered in her to play the role of listening and narrating about the visions (caused to Dada Lekhraj). Shiv adopted Prajapita through her. And in turn sowed the seed of knowledge in first Brahma through Prajapita. So, the First Brahma got adopted by Shiv through Prajapita.
4) The second mother/ choti Maa = By Shiv through Prajapita.

But I suppose the clarification regarding the first and second mother has changed a little. I can say for sure only after noting down from any of the discussion CDs.
Also will PBKs explain how Prajapita plays role of mother?
Shiv adopts the PBKs through Prajapita and thus he plays the role of a mother/Brahma.
According to PBKs, there are 4/5 Brahmas and at least many Jagadambas {I think Om Radhe, aadi Mata, Dada Lekhraj and may be even Vedanti Bhen]. Now do they believe there are similarly 4/5 Jagatpitas?
No. Murlis and Avyakt Vanis say that you all are world mothers, but there is no Murli or Avyakt Vani which says you all are World Fathers. Jagatpita is only one.

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by mbbhat » 15 Nov 2009

arjun wrote: 1)Prajapita = By Shiv through the First Brahma.
2) Dada Lekhraj = Through the first/second mother.
3) Aadi/First Brahma = Shiv entered in her to play the role of listening and narrating about the visions (caused to Dada Lekhraj). Shiv adopted Prajapita through her. And in turn sowed the seed of knowledge in first Brahma through Prajapita. So, the First Brahma got adopted by Shiv through Prajapita.
4) The second mother/ choti Maa = By Shiv through Prajapita.

But I suppose the clarification regarding the first and second mother has changed a little. I can say for sure only after noting down from any of the discussion CDs.
So PBKs believe that adoption takes place by more than one Chariot!

That is Prajapita is adopted by Aadi Maata and aadi Maata is adopted through Prajapita!

And then they say there is only one mukrar rath!
-----
One more funny thing.

Sevakram got adopted through gitamata (=Aadimata).

By whom Mr. Dixit got adopted?

when Aaadi mata got adopted through Sevakram, does not Sevakram play role of mother of AadiMaata? then how can it be said that Aadi Maata is one who has no mother?

If you say Prajapita acts role of mother, is he unlimited mother? That is- is he mother of humanity?

Is Mr. Dixit mother of Dada Lekhraj or just Aadi Mata mother of Dada Lekhraj?

Who is second mother?

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by arjun » 15 Nov 2009

So PBKs believe that adoption takes place by more than one Chariot!

That is Prajapita is adopted by Aadi Maata and aadi Maata is adopted through Prajapita!

And then they say there is only one mukrar rath!
Mukarrar rath (appointed Chariot) is only one. Although Shiv enters in the first Brahma in the beginning of the Yagya He does not narrate knowledge through that first Brahma. Knowledge is narrated only through one Chariot in the form of a Father.
One more funny thing.

Sevakram got adopted through gitamata (=Aadimata).

By whom Mr. Dixit got adopted?

when Aaadi mata got adopted through Sevakram, does not Sevakram play role of mother of AadiMaata? then how can it be said that Aadi Maat is one who has no mother?

If you say Prajapita acts role of mother, is he unlimited mother? That is- is he mother of humanity?

Is Mr. Dixit mother of Dada Lekhraj or just Aadi Mata mother of Dada Lekhraj?
If you have come here just to make fun you can continue to do so. I have no time for fun-seekers.
When Shiv comes from the Soul World He establishes a path of household and this is why he chooses a mother and a Father of the world. If this appears funny to you, I wish you good luck. May be you have been taught in your lokik and alokik life to attain happiness by making fun of others.
Who is second mother?
Previous birth of Vaishnavi Devi (believed to be BK Vedanti by PBKs).

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by mbbhat » 16 Nov 2009

If you have come here just to make fun you can continue to do so. I have no time for fun-seekers.
When Shiv comes from the Soul World He establishes a path of household and this is why he chooses a mother and a Father of the world. If this appears funny to you, I wish you good luck. May be you have been taught in your lokik and alokik life to attain happiness by making fun of others.


Good reaction. I am not a fun seeker. But when I see fun in pbk philosophy, I just expressed it.

So do you mean to say- the mother and Father of the world chosen by Shiv (for adoption) are two dfferent personalities?

so do you mean to say adoption is a two step process and not single step? If these two are different personalities, then are the braahmins children of two mouths?

Will you say how Prajapita plays role of mother? what is the need of that when there are already four mothers? [Aadi Brahma, Vaishnavi Devi, Dada Lekhraj, Mama, etc]. why so many mothers?

You had said Murli point says there is just one Jagatpita. But see the following Murli point.


9-7-81(1):- Ab Jagadamba ko barobar Sakar may dikhate hain. Sharirdhari hai. Jagatpita bhi hai jisko Prajapita bhi kaha jata hai. Jaise saare Jagat ki Amba hai, vaise saare Jagat ka pita hai. Zaroor donon hee yahaan honge. Donon ka bhi naam sunaya. Donon hai Prajapita aur Prajamata. AB DOOSRAA JAGATPITA KAHA JATA HAI NIRAKAR ShivBaba KO. SABKA PITA HAI. UNKA NAAM HEE HAI PARAMPITA PARAMATMA Shiv.

= Jagadamba is shown in Sakar. (She is) bodily personality. Jagatpita(Father of world) is also there who is also called as Prajapita. Like there is mother of whole world, there/he is Father of whole world. Definitely both would be here. Names of both are told. The two are Prajapita(Father of citizens) and PrajaMata(Mother of praja= citizens). Now the SECOND JAGATPITA IS SAID FOR INCORPOREAL ShivBaba. He is Father of ALL. His name itself is Parampita paramatma Shiv.

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by arjun » 16 Nov 2009

So do you mean to say- the mother and Father of the world chosen by Shiv (for adoption) are two dfferent personalities?
Yes.
If these two are different personalities, then are the braahmins children of two mouths?
No. Knowledge is narrated by Shiv only through one personality at a time - either through the appointed Chariot or through the temporary Chariot.
Will you say how Prajapita plays role of mother? what is the need of that when there are already four mothers? [Aadi Brahma, Vaishnavi Devi, Dada Lekhraj, Mama, etc]. why so many mothers?
Prajapita is a mother because he is also a Brahma, i.e. bari Maa (senior mother).
You had said Murli point says there is just one Jagatpita. But see the following Murli point.
Everyone knows this. You are not giving a new information. When I said that Jagatpita is one, I was speaking about the human souls who have their own bodies to play their parts.

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by mbbhat » 17 Nov 2009

There is a Murli point saying- "There are two unlimited mothers and two unlimited fathers". BKs believe the two fathers are Shiv and Brahma, and the two mothers are Brahma and Saraswati.
----
You had said about 4 or 5 mothers. Are these mothers limited or unlimited? What is the exact number of mothers? Will you explain how all these mothers play their part?
------
Do you say God plays role of mother through these personalities or they play themselves?

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by arjun » 17 Nov 2009

BKs believe the two fathers are Shiv and Brahma.

The two mothers are Brahma and Saraswati.
Is Shiv not a mother?
You had said about 4 or 5 mothers. Are these mothers limited or unlimited? What is the exact number of mothers?

Will you explain how all these mothers play their part?
Prajapita Brahma, First Mother (Kamala Devi), Second Mother (BK Vedanti), Brahma (Dada Lekhraj), Saraswati (Om Radhey).
Do you say God plays role of mother through these personalities or they play themsleves?
God does not enter in all of them. He enters only in Prajapita, First Mother and Brahma. But nobody can claim that God entered in him/her.

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by mbbhat » 18 Nov 2009

Is Shiv not a mother?
Shiv is either just Father or both Father and mother(maatpita). He is never just mother. If you like you we can discuss this here or in a separate thread- maatpita.

But role of Prajapita can be separated. He is mother during adoption. He is the first citizen. Hence corporeal unlimited Father. But kalash is given to maatas and Jagadamba/Mama is head of that. Hence she is just unlimited mother.
-----
You had said- Aadi Brahma is one who has no mother. So how her adoption becomes complete? Also you have not explained how these mothers are mothers? That is what do they do to get title of mother?

Are all these limited or unlimited mothers?

You had said- during the process of adoption, Prajapita plays role of Father.

You had also said Prajapita was adopted by Shiv through Aadi Maata and during this adoption of Prajapita, was AadiMaata mother or Father?

Does Prajapita has mother or Father (except ShivBaba)?

When the big mother has no mother, how do you say the her adoption is proper?

I am asking repeatedly because you have not replied who are Father and mother of Aadi maata and Prajapita during adoption?
Prajapita is a mother because he is also a Brahma, i.e. bari Maa (senior mother).
Is not badi (bari) Maa is the one who has no mother?

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by arjun » 18 Nov 2009

He is never just mother.
I never said that He is just Mother. Just because you did not count Shiv among unlimited mothers I pointed out the mistake to you.
But kalash is given to maatas and Jagadamba/Mama is head of that. Hence she is just unlimited mother.
How can Mama (Om Radhey) be an unlimited mother when ShivBaba has Himself said that she is Brahma's daughter and is the mouth born progeny of Brahma?
You had said- Aadi Brahma is one who has no mother. So how her adoption becomes complete?
I have already explained. I have no time for arguements please.
Also you have not explained how these mothers are mothers? That is what do they do to get title of mother?
They give sustenance to the Brahmins in different capacities.
Are all these limited or unlimited mothers?
They are mothers in an unlimited sense.
When the big mother has no mother, how do you say the her adoption is proper?I am asking repeatedly because you have not replied who are Father and mother of Aadi maata and Prajapita during adoption?
I have already explained that she is adopted by Shiv through Prajapita. Prajapita is adopted by Shiv through the first mother.
I don't have time for any more argument please.
You had also said Prajapita was adopted by Shiv through Aadi Maata and during this adoption of Prajapita, was AadiMaata mother of Father?
Yes.
Is not badi (bari) Maa is the one who has no mother?
Yes, she has no mother except Shiv.

The knowledge about Shiv's incarnation in the beginning of the Confluence Age presented by the PBKs is more believable and practically possible than the fairy-tale that the BKs present to the world about Dada Lekhraj's visions and Shiv's incarnation which has no basis in the Murlis or scriptures.

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by mbbhat » 20 Nov 2009

I never said that He is just Mother. Just because you did not count Shiv among unlimited mothers I pointed out the mistake to you.
Murli point being discussed - (two unlimited mothers and fathers) mean part of mother and Father individually. Hence I wrote that.

How can Mama (Om Radhey) be an unlimited mother when ShivBaba has Himself said that she is Brahma's daughter and is the mouth born progeny of Brahma?
Mama used to churn knowldege given by ShivBaba and explain it to others. Even Brahma Baba used to hear it. She is unlimited because she is given the authority of Yagya and kalash of the knowledge.

You might have heard the Murli point- Yah Mama ki Maa hote huye bhi Mama ko Maa kahte hain (this (brahma) even being mother of Mama call/say Mama as mother).

The title Jagadamba had been given to Mama as she is very next to Brahma Baba and B Baba, being male, does not get the title Jagadamba.

I would like to know one thing- Did Brahma Baba used to call Mama (mother) as child or Mother? Mostly he used to call as Mother only. But, he used to call all others, including physically elders to him as CHILD. If anybody knows, better give more clarity.
They are mothers in an unlimited sense.
So how many unlimited mothers? More than two? How much mothers each one of these have?

Do all these mothers call others as bachche? Even Mr. dixit does not call others as bachche (children). He calls sisters as maataaji (as some member said here). Then how can he be mother or Father?
I have already explained that she is adopted by Shiv through Prajapita. Prajapita is adopted by Shiv through the first mother.

So it implies that adoption takes place through two mouths according to PBK philosophy!
Yes, she has no mother except Shiv.
So does not Prajapita and other unlimited mothers serve aadi maata as mother according to their capacity?
The Knowledge about Shiv's incarnation in the beginning of the Confluence Age presented by the PBKs is more believable and practically possible than the fairy-tale that the BKs present to the world about Dada Lekhraj's visions and Shiv's incarnation which has no basis in the Murlis or scriptures.
So, do you have information about family members of Sevakram, Gita Mata (Adi Brahma) and another lady, etc?

One more question- Did first Shiv hear or speak ? What was the time gap between speaking and hearing? You can also direct me to the thread if these are already explained.

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by arjun » 20 Nov 2009

mbbhat wrote:It is not correct to give eductaion /technology to terrorrists.
Dear brother,
You have so far called PBKs by many names and now you are calling us terrorists. OK, if you think we are terrorists, then you please lodge a police complaint against the PBKs. I do not wish to waste any more time in exchanging views with you anymore on this forum.

I thank you for reading my posts all these days.

I also wish you good luck in your life.

Thanks for giving me some extra time to do other forms of Godly Service.

On Godly Service,
Arjun

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by mbbhat » 21 Nov 2009

One more question- Did first Shiv hear or speak ? What was the time gap between speaking and hearing? You can also direct me to the thread if these are already explained
Thank you for Arjun soul for being with me so far. Any interested pbk can reply at least to the above question.

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by mbbhat » 21 Nov 2009

SM 24-3-79(1):- Gayan bhi hai Brahma mukhvamshavali braahman. PRAJAPITA BRAHMA ki mukhvamshavali. Baaki vah sab hain kukh vamshavali. Vahaan Brahma to hai nahin. Bhal apne ko braahman kahlaate hain, vah to kisi manushy kaa naam kahenge. Jaise jaini kul, phalana kul kaha jata hai. To vah koyi sachche braahman nahin thahrey. IS SAMAY Tum Prajapita Brahma ke adopt kiye huye braahman mukhvamshavali ho. Inka arth bhi koyi samajhte nahin. Tum kisko adopt karte ho vah tumaahaaraa bachcha thode hi hai. Mukh vamshavali huva, phir naam badalte hain. To tum bhi ho mukhvamshavali. Tumko samajh hai hum barobar PRAJAPITA BRAHMA ki mukhvamshavali hain. BRAHMA KO MUKHVAMSHAVALI NAHIN KAHENGE. BRAHMA KO PHIR RATH KAHA JAATAA HAI BHAGEERATH. – 15-

= ......You know that we are mouth born progeny of Prajapita Brahma. Brahma cannot (STRICTLY) be called as mouth-born progeny. Brahma is called as the Fortunate Chariot. [because God ENTERED in him]

PBKs have failed to realize this. They say even Prajapita was adopted by some others' mouth!

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Re: Process of adoption by God.

Post by mbbhat » 22 Nov 2015

False concept of "title holder Prajapita"-

PBKs say- like, when the real principal would go on leave, he would appoint someone as in-charge or title-holder for that period. So, during the absence of Sevakram, B Baba had been title-holder Prajapita in Yagya. According to them, ShivBaba entered B Baba from 1947 till 1969.

1)Now- as per PBKs, Mr Sevakram left his body in 1942. So, from 1942 till 1947, through whom the process of adoption was going on? Was the Chariot again their Adi Brahma? Do PBKs give the same title to her as well, during this period?

2)And, again from 1969 till 1976, or till the date when Mr Dixit(or his followers) realized/announced that he is Prajapita, who was "title holder Prajapita" in the Yagya?

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