More BKWSU indulgence ...

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More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Nov 2010

More BKWSU indulgence under the guidance of Janki Kirpalani ... amazing. Note also proof of BKWSU police interference and financial pay offs. If you have any more similar reports, I would be interested in archiving them.

Thank you.

From: http://www.brahmakumaris.info/forum/vie ... f=6&t=2594
bk%20mass%20bw.jpg
22 girls were initiated into the BKWSU last Sunday, 31st october 2010, in Ahmedabad. They were given "Diksha". They left their families and joined the BK forever.

On Sunday, 31st October 2010, 22 girls aged from 20 to 30 years old were ordained as Brahma Kumaris in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, India. They left their respective families and dedicated their life to God. This was a record of 21st century in Ahmedabad. Raj yogini Dadi Janki, administrative Head of the BKWSU who is of 94 years age, was present especially from Mount Abu to participate in this dedication to God ceremony.

Dadi jankiji said in her blessing speech that these 22 Sisters were not ordinary girls but are blessed with "drishti" by GOD, that's why these Sisters have decided to offer their whole life to God. When one girl marries and lives with in laws, she brings happiness and prosperity to one family, whereas these Sister will bring happiness and prosperity to many families in the world.

Thus acting in this selfless manner, they would do god's work. They will dedicate their lives to removing bad customs like fetish, superstitions, and thus work for their life to establish a value based society. At this ceremony, Gujarat Zone Director Sarladidi welcomed the Sisters to be ordained and their families. A grand procession was carried before the ceremony in the Maninagar area. In the evening, an opening ceremony was performed for global celebration of "Divya divine descent and the creation of Satyug".

Rajyogini Dadi Janki, main spokesperson for Brahma Kumari Brijmohan and State Minister for Law, Pradipsinh Jadeja, were present for the occasion

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by arjun » 03 Nov 2010

But is this the correct way of surrendering virgins as BKs? Then why has BapDada said in one of the Avyakt Vanis that the surrender ceremony will have to be organized once again?

I recently heard from an ex-PBK who is now a regular student at a BK center that when he wanted to surrender his daughter he was asked to pay Rs.1,00,000/-. Is this true in all parts of India?

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by mbbhat » 08 Nov 2010

arjun wrote:I recently heard from an ex-PBK who is now a regular student at a BK center that when he wanted to surrender his daughter he was asked to pay Rs.1,00,000/-. Is this true in all parts of India?
I also have heard one case in one zone in Karnataka state. I think they ask depending on the position of the Father of the kanya. But I believe in most of the cases, they do not ask at all.

Dear Arjun soul,
What is the procedure to surrender in AIVV?

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by arjun » 08 Nov 2010

Om Shanti.
I don't think it is an isolated incident of seeking dowry from BK sisters who wish to surrender but has become common now a days. Last week I happened to attend the funeral ceremony of a PBK mother (who died of cancer). Many BKs including three surrendered BK teachers had come to attend the funeral ceremony (probably there were not much aware of her being a PBK as her entire family had been BK followers since many years) But after they came to know that the family has contacts with PBKs, they have refused to attend the 13th day ceremony.

One of my PBK friends who is an advocate narrated to me a shocking incident on the day of the above mentioned funeral ceremony. He said that his parents are BKs and his brother is also a surrendered BK. But when his grandfather died and when his Father invited the local center incharge (who is a very Senior Sister) to attend the funeral ceremony, she demanded money for the same.

Anyway, as regards the procedure for surrendering in AIVV, any virgin can surrender with the permission of her parents. And if her parents or family members do not approve, and if she is bold enough she can simply bring proof of her age (having crossed 18 years of age) and come with any PBK mother to surrender. But in latter case she needs to be bold enough to tell the police of her resolve in case her family members lodge a police complaint. There is no requirement of bringing any money.

OGS,
Arjun

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by mbbhat » 08 Nov 2010

Dear Arjun soul,
Thank you for the views.

Is demanding money during surrendering (in case the parents of kumari are rich or at least comfortable) wrong? Is there any Murli point regarding this matter?

You said those news were shocking. So- it is better if you explain how or why it is so. What I mean is it is better if you explain with help of Murli point or by logical way.

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by arjun » 09 Nov 2010

Is demanding money during surrendering (in case the parents of Kumari are rich or at least comfortable) wrong? Is there any Murli point regarding this matter?
Baba has said so many times in the Murlis that it is better to die than to beg.
You said those news were shocking. So- it is better if you explain how or why it is so. What I mean is it is better if you explain with help of Murli point or by logical way.
If someone demands money (fees) to attend a funeral ceremony and if it does not appear shocking to others then it only shows their state of mind. There is no need for Murli points for this. Not even in the outside sinful world does someone seek money to attend anybody's funeral ceremony.

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by mbbhat » 09 Nov 2010

arjun wrote:Baba has said so many times in the Murlis that it is better to die than to beg.
It is right if one demands money for personal benefit. But if one demands for Yagya?

Parents need to spend money for arranging daughter's marriage. Is it wrong to give some money to Yagya while surrenderring to daughter? Of course if the centre incharge asks poor parents, it is wrong. Else, I do not feel it is a big mistake.

[I was suggested (but the tone was like directing) to donate my first month salary to Yagya by a center sister - not incharge one - the small - the other sister. At that moment itself I got very much surprise- Why she is demanding money? I said the same thing- Baba has told it is better to die than to beg.

Later after some months- a Murli point came which said the first month payment (or 50% of it- I am not sure) should be given to Yagya. I felt very bad about myself for the negative thoughts that I had for that sister.

Another thing is- Baba says- I take tests of children. So the students should take these things like that.]


Do you know one thing- When we invite swamijis to our home, we donate money to them. Even if we go to their place, we give to them. [we = devotees]

What respect do we have to our own sisters - that too when one believes in corporeal more than incorporeal things? I feel if one has firm faith in Baba, it should be visible in corporeal beings- the braahmin family.


So- is it a big mistake if someone demands money for benefit of Yagya?

You may be knowing that Krishna demanded from Sudama even though Sudama was very poor. Sudama was reluctant initially. But Krishna forced a little. Later Sudama recognized the reward.

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by mbbhat » 09 Nov 2010

SM 7-7-82(2):- Koyi pahley number ka vaaaris bante hain. Koyi phir pichaadi may chandravamsh may jaakar maalik banenge. TAB TAK BADON KE AAGE SERVICE KARTE RAHENGE. Ab bhi kayi aise hain jo kab unnati ko nahin paate hain. Phir samjhaa jaataa hai unki takdeer may shaayad kuch nahin hai. SERVICE KARTE2 AAKAR PICHAADI MAY SEETAAYEIN BANENGE. So bhi agar rahenge toh. Nikal gaye toh praja may bhi kum se kum pad paayenge. Bahut hain jo jaamdey {naatey} hain. Vruddhi ko paate hi nahin. Kuch samajhte hi nahin. Karm akarm ki gati Baap hi baith samjhaate hain. Yahaan kuch bhi achche karm nahin karte toh vikarm vruddhi ko paate jaate hain. Tum bhi kahenge yah toh drama ka part huvaa na. Yah bhi chaahiye zaroor. Jo Rajayi ke andar rahte, nowkri aadi karte rahenge. NOWKAR PHIR UNNATI KO PAATE RAHENGE. PICHAADI MAY RAAJAAYI PAAYENGE. Ishwar pass rahte huye aise karm karate hain toh phir sajaaayein bhi bahut khaate hain. Pad bhi naach miltaa hai. Isliye samjhaayaa jaataa hai aise2 vikarm nahi karo. Nahin to vruddhi ko paate rahenge. Service kuch karte nahin. Khaate rahte. Padhte bhi nahin. Yah karmon ki gati dekho kaisee hai. Baap aise karm sikhlaate hain jo swarg ki Rajaayi paa sakey. Srimath par aisaa karm karnaa hai. Asuri karm bhi dekhte ho. Kitney garib phir paapi ajaamil jaise ban jaate hain. Yahaan bhi aise bante hain. KOYI TOH BAADSHAAH BANTEY, PHIR KOYI DAAS DAASI BAN PICHAADI MAY KUCH PAD PAA LETE HAIN. Aise bhi hain. Baap achchi tarah jaante hain. Yahaan rahte bhi achchaa karm nahin karte hain toh nashaa bhi nahin rahtaa hai. Karmon ki gati Baap baith samjhaate hain. -96- [warnings, Ram, Kings]


= Some become number one vaaris (those who get right to property). Some become maalik (King) at the end of moon dynasty. Till then they do service of elders. Even now there are somme who do not progress. So- it is as if there is nothing in their fortune. After serving and serving, they become Sita at the end. That too- of they remain here. If they leave, they will get low status even in citizens. There are many who are jaamdeys (I do not know the exact meaning- may be lazy, useless). They do not develop at all. They do not even understand/realize. Father only explains the secret of karm and vikarm (actions and sins). If no good actions are done here, sins will get increased. You say- this is part in drama, is it not. Even these are necessary who stay within the royal family and do work (= serve). The workers then improve/progress. At the end, they get Kingdom. Being with God if such actions are done, even punishment is also high. Also the status will be low. Hence it is taught that- do not do such sins. Else they will become more. They do not do any service. They just eat. They even do not study. See- how the gati(results) of the actions. Father teaches such actions from which one can become King of heaven. One should do such actions through srimath. You also see vicious actions. Many poor people become sinners like Ajaamil. Even here also (some) become like that. Some become great Kings and some become workers and at the end receive some status. There are some like these. ...

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by nivi » 09 Nov 2010

Mbhatt,

If the Yagya is seen as a family and that too a family establised by God does it make sense to beg for money?? You might as well take a begging bowl and beg on the streets like those bikhari! By the way a dowry is simply a gift (not a demand, but something parents give as a tokan of their affection to the family). Today in this Kaliyugi world every things has become degraded and 'greed' seems to be the motive behind all things..It is only grooms greedy family that demands dowry. They could go to jail for demanding dowry if it is taken to court.
Haven't you noticed we got so much more in life if we simply don't ask, beg or expect from others. God is here to make us into devta and not beggers. This begging sanskara will make us into asura and not devta. Do you know the meaning of Devta?
It means 'denay wala' meaning the one who just 'gives' and ask nothing in return.

Just look at a typical family do the parents, sibling, or other family demand money from each other, or they simply they all contribute to family bhandara. Here it is ShivBaba bhandara so there is no reason for begginh if you are child of God.

Nivi

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by arjun » 10 Nov 2010

mbbhat wrote:Later after some months- a Murli point came which said the first month payment (or 50% of it- I am not sure) should be given to Yagya. I
I have not read or heard any such point. The above member should quote the Murli point along with date to prove his point. The lengthy Murli point that he has quoted is not at all related to the topic being discussed.

As nivi has pointed out the above member is free to beg for money to do Godly service or encourage such policy among BKs. But Baba says it is better to die than to beg. The Member has discussed this issue several times in the past also. Therefore, I think we should close the issue here.

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by Sach_Khand » 10 Nov 2010

can anyne say for sure that Dada Lekharaj never asked for money from anyone after the beginning of yagnya? From any of those rich old BKs such as Kishore (I am not remembering the full name).

Begging is different from asking. If I ask someone to quote a Murli point, does that mean that I am begging to that person for a Murli point. Telling someone to do service is not sin. But forcing is sin. Giving money is also a form of service. If we take the words literally, then asking someone to help in some phycical work of the yagnya can also be considered as begging. A person asks to someone only when if he/she feels that the person does not think it otherwise. Considering the relation with somone a person decides to ask. But forcing someone or keep asking all the time is begging. I think members here are making too much out of something natural. They are not able to make difference between asking and begging. The example that Arjun has given does not give clear information about whether that person was asked for Rs. 1,00,000 or was forced or condition was applied for the surrender of his daughter.

And the information from the gujarati paper has nothing regarding money in it. The writer of this post probably has objection that there should not have been the procession. Surely, it is not needed. But human beings cannot give up the sanskaraas of Bhakti marg so easily. Even hearing songs is cosidered as Bhakti marg. But I have got recorded the songs from the Kampil itself in those days. Drinking tea and coffee is not considered to be according to Shrimat, but many Godly students drink tea or coffee.

Godly students are more engrossed in such things, but do not question whether someone gives pain to people. Do not question about how is your eyes? Civil or criminal? Probably hesitate to question. Because they know the answer.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by mbbhat » 11 Nov 2010

There is a clear Murli point redarding surrenderring of kanyas -saying like- "Tum apni hissa poocho. Kaho hum Bharat ki seva karnaa chaahte hain. Agar diya to achchaa. Nahin to bhi theek hai. " = You ask (your Father/parents) your share (of the property). Tell them that you wish to do service of Bharat. If he/they gives, it is good. Even otherwise also it is OK.

Even ShivBaba asks children to put their tan, man and dhan. So can it be called as begging? Actually it is responsibility of the Father to give something to Yagya (if he has).

And I believe- one day will come when BKs would be permitted to do free len -den (give and take) . Because even in lowkik, people give and take without any feeling of giving and taking. When alowkik relation should be stronger than lowkik relation, I think unless BKs do len- den free, it is not a practical proof of strong relation.

Anyhow- if readers consider this to be big mistake, it is up to them. The above are just my views. I may be wrong.

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by arjun » 11 Nov 2010

Om Shanti. If a sister who wishes to surrender lovingly and respectfully convinces her Father to give her her share of property or money before surrendering so that she could use it for Godly service, then it is acceptable. If the Father gives her happily and voluntarily she can give it in the Yagya which will help her as well as her parents to earn punya. But if she forces her parents to give money or property then it will not be of much benefit. Baba says whatever one gets easily is like milk, whatever one seeks/begs is like water and whatever one snatches from someone is like blood. So, it is completely wrong if BKWSU asks a virgin to bring money from her parents before surrendering. She is giving her life to the Yagya. What more do they want? Is this a business or a Godly service?

It is wrong that Baba seeks money from children. He just tells that if they invest their body, mind and wealth they will reap the benefits for 21 births. If children do so they will reap benefits for themselves, not for others.

For example, in AIVV or Advance Party, whenever there is a need for help in construction work at any mini-Madhubans, an intimation is given to the PBKs that there is going to be construction work on such and such date. If anyone is interested they can make use of the chance. But nobody is asked to do service.

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by mbbhat » 12 Nov 2010

But if she forces her parents to give money or property then it will not be of much benefit.
The word forcing is not clear/complete here.
Suppose say- you have your grandfather's property and your Father is not ready to give it to you, will you keep quiet or ask ? Would you not force (argue or request with firmness) even a little?
Baba says whatever one gets easily is like milk, whatever one seeks/begs is like water and whatever one snatches from someone is like blood. So, it is completely wrong if BKWSU asks a virgin to bring money from her parents before surrendering. She is giving her life to the Yagya. What more do they want? Is this a business or a Godly service?
I feel it depends on how one asks.

I will give my example- of course not money directly. My semester exams were about to commence in 10 days. But the sister asked me- to do physical service for next 5 days continuously. [There was a big mela/function]. I was worried about exams and got confused, but could not disobey the sister. I did seva from morning 4 Am to night even 12: 00 clock or even 00: 30 AM. While doing seva, I had not negative thought about sister at all. I just did seva as baba's seva. I had very good experience. That is- even though I had no proper sleep, I did not feel any restlessness. It is on the morning of the fifth day when I was about leave the centre place when thought of my exams came into my mind, I felt a little bit head ache and tiredness.

Even today when I just remember such incidents, I feel a great relaxation, happiness and satisifcation that Baba has used my body for his service.

Even my room mate got more score after becoming a pukka sevadhari. He studied less, but scored more.

So- it is Baba who knows . Sometimes he may ask in Murli. Sometimes he may ask through sisters- karan karaavanhaar.

Now- suppose say the kanya is poor. Even then is it not responsibility of the Father to give her at least something? Or do you say Father has no responsibility at all? Is it OK to create children as one wishes and just send them out from home?
It is wrong that Baba seeks money from children. He just tells that if they invest their body, mind and wealth they will reap the benefits for 21 births. If children do so they will reap benefits for themselves, not for others.
But why not inform others to do the same thing? How is it fault?

When we give directions to others we will have both good wishes and some emotions due to body consciousness. What I feel is- if the percentage of good wishes is more than the latter, it is OK.

For example, in AIVV or Advance Party, whenever there is a need for help in construction work at any mini-Madhubans, an intimation is given to the PBKs that there is going to be construction work on such and such date. If anyone is interested they can make use of the chance. But nobody is asked to do service.
In AIVV, the service actvities are not even 5% of BKWSU. They do not approach people - door to door at all. Then their need itself is less.
----- -----
Now- a simple question- Suppose say there is service of cleaning the class hall, etc. Should the sister just announce or give intimation about that or ask a student to do that?

You said- it is totally wrong to even ask money.

Regarding milk, water and blood,- it depends on one's capacity. If on has power to transform then he can do anything. Is the knowledge just to accept or use like a a machine?

There are clear Murli points that say- you even ask place, hall to give Godly message even from outside people. Then how is it a big wrong to ask money from a Bk- that too when her sister is being given shelter in centre

Now- what is your srimath for the kanya or her parents in such situation?

[My suggestion is- she has to be bold to ask her parents for her share with respect. If the Father does not agree to give, then she should inform the sister that he is not willing and even then she is refused to get surrender, she should accept that it is her test].

Baba says- Bhagavaan ke liye kahaavath hai agar tum pyaar karo yaa maaro- hum tumhaaraa darwaazaa nahin chodenge. = Oh God, even if you love or beat us, we will not leave your door.

But I agree that the sister in charge who asks money should ask without any greed or ego. Of course, there is no need to ask But asking like a trustee is not wrong.

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Re: More BKWSU indulgence ...

Post by arjun » 12 Nov 2010

Om Shanti. I have already answered all the questions asked by the above member. It is upto him to interpret Murlis in his own way. He has already declared previously that ShivBaba can speak lies. So, ultimately it is upto him to follow the Shrimat or to mix his own opinion in it.
OGS,
Arjun

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