8 critical q's which will change everything in this Rudra Gy

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Re: 8 critical q's which will change everything in this Rudra Gy

Post by Sach_Khand » 27 May 2011

kand_72 wrote:I don't think there is any other place where specific reference to people are pointed, although there are names of places like Indore, Kashi, Delhi, Tamil nadu.. but now where is this linked so specifically with a person.
I did not understand what you meant (underlined part).

I think that in Murlis when it is said about people of Farrukhabad, it is said about the beleif those people have in The Master (Malik). It is in general. It does not mean that no people in other places beleive in The Master. Also there is a possibility that someone or some group from that area (Farrukhabad) or nearby area had come to meet Baba in Madhuban at that time, and in the Murli class such a point was said. But misusing the point to prove someone from Farrukhabad to be The Master is wrong.

All the proofs given by AIVV to prove Virendra Dev Dixit as The Master are not specific and we do not know the actual dates and situation when those points were told. Using points scattered in different Murlis and trying to prove such an important thing (The Master) is a very irresponsible way of teaching.

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Re: 8 critical q's which will change everything in this Rudra Gy

Post by button slammer » 27 May 2011

kand_72 wrote:8 critical q's which will change everything in this Rudra Gyaan Yagya....||

1. If the Supreme Soul is not omnipresent, then where is the omnipotent soul present?
Yes, in particular the BKs teach that God is not omnipresent. What is the basis of this? According to the BK history taught in every center around the world, written in their literature, and advertised in various media; Supreme Soul Shiva entered the body of Dada Lekraj (circa 1936), and over a period of time established an Institution dedicated to the moral/spiritual up-liftment of humanity, the purification of the soul and nature. How was it established that it was indeed the Supreme Soul teaching at that time? What is the foundation of the recognition of the Supreme Soul, and does the method of recognition remain the same today as it was then? Is there a set of criteria by which we can deem the Supreme Soul to be of a singular personality rather than a multiplistic one?
OK, putting to one side temporarily the means of recognition, lets just say for now that the Supreme Soul was identified by some means in the body of Dada Lekraj. The acknowledgement of this recognition took the form of following the directions and dristi of One and One alone. Whilst it was believed Supreme Soul was present in the body of Brahma Baba the institution had a head and a singular leader.
When that personality known as Brahma Baba perished, the entire means by which the Supreme Soul could be recognized as a singular personality vanished from their view. The BKs then began to impersonate the personality of Brahma Baba. Multiple conflicting directions were/are issued by human souls in the name of a singular invisible personality. Multiple dristi between human souls are exchanged in the name of purity. According to the original mission statement of the BKs the purifier is One, directions for upliftment come from One, and One alone. The BKs themselves have created the concept of omnipresence, whilst preaching God is not omnipresent.
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Re: 8 critical q's which will change everything in this Rudra Gy

Post by RudraPutra » 28 Jun 2011

Sach_Khand wrote: I am not speaking on behalf of BKs.
When it is clearly said in Murlis that Brahma is sinner, it means he is sinner. So, no need to give benefit of doubt.
....yes definitely...that is true
My question has been ignored (purposely?).
no...not at all....you have been answered continously dear,by all PBKs,irrespect of their interest whether to answer you or not
My question is, if Shankar is not a sinner, why does he need to do purusharth. Either Shankar is not a sinner or is a sinner like Brahma and becomes pure by doing purusharth. Both cannot be true.
In Murli Shankar is called as Subtle Region dweller.
Hence he is not sinner because sin's happen only in corporeal world....
but still Shankar is not nirakari or incorporeal(always) hence to reach incorporeal stage,Shankar does purusharth....
.....
SO Shankar IS NOT SINNER BUT STILL PURUSHARTHI

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Re: 8 critical q's which will change everything in this Rudra Gy

Post by Sach_Khand » 28 Jun 2011

RudraPutra wrote:In Murli Shankar is called as Subtle Region dweller.
Hence he is not sinner because sin's happen only in corporeal world....
but still Shankar is not nirakari or incorporeal(always) hence to reach incorporeal stage,Shankar does purusharth....
...
SO Shankar IS NOT SINNER BUT STILL PURUSHARTHI
When I wrote that my question has been ignored, I meant that my real querry has been ignored and explanation is given differently. No doubt I am replied in the forum, but not to what I really question.

You have written that Shankar is not sinner since he dwells in Subtle Region. Then why does he need to do purusharth? How is he a purusharthi?
You have written that he does purusharth to reach incorporeal stage. Does he acheive that ever? In Murlis it is said that Shankar resides in Subtle Region. That means his maximum stage is of that level. Similalry maximum level of subtle Brahma is of that level. But Shankar is more subtle than subtle Brahma.

In Murlis it is said that even amongst the eight, who do not get any fine or punishment ( or they pass with honour), all do not have the same level of soul conscious stage. That means evey soul although leave their body consciousness in the end, still their level of soul consciousness differs.

Similarly Shankar has the stage of soul consciousness and that is always his level. Only human being equals GodFather. And that human being is Prajapita Brahma. And it becomes possible (in the end) because GodFather Himself is in Prajapita Brahma and creates the First Human being (Adam) in His own form.

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Re: 8 critical q's which will change everything in this Rudra Gy

Post by RudraPutra » 29 Jun 2011

Sach_Khand wrote: You have written that he does purusharth to reach incorporeal stage. Does he acheive that ever?
Of course....that is why SHIV and Shankar have been combined....yaadgaar in Bhaktimarg!!!
:D
In Murlis it is said that Shankar resides in Subtle Region. That means his maximum stage is of that level. Similalry maximum level of subtle Brahma is of that level. But Shankar is more subtle than subtle Brahma.
....how come you say that subtle stage is the maximum stage of Shankar??
SORRY!!!this is not so...
(subtle staged)Shankar is the head of the highest stage of subtleness(others are BRAHMA as head for the least and Vishnu for the mediocre stage of subtleness)
but this doesn't mean that actors playing the role of BRAHMA,Vishnu and Shankar never achieves incorporeal stage....
definitely....every soul's house is Paramdham.....but among those the soul which not only achieves the incorporeal stage in its corporeal form but also achieves the stage of SHIV and hence gets combined with SHIV is none other than Shankar...
Hence SHIV-Shankar and not SHIV-BRAHMA or SHIV-Vishnu.....because all are numberwise....only one is numberone...
In Murlis it is said that even amongst the eight, who do not get any fine or punishment ( or they pass with honour), all do not have the same level of soul conscious stage. That means evey soul although leave their body consciousness in the end, still their level of soul consciousness differs.
that's what answered above.....all are numberwise and only one is number one....who gets combined with SHIV and becomes
SHIV Shankar....
Similarly Shankar has the stage of soul consciousness and that is always his level. Only human being equals GodFather. And that human being is Prajapita Brahma. And it becomes possible (in the end) because GodFather Himself is in Prajapita Brahma and creates the First Human being (Adam) in His own form.
What do you mean by HERO partdhaari?....he will play as the top most and the heroic character in any form,in any birth it may be ...
In corporeal world:Ram's soul is the HERO as he is the same PRAJAPITA BRAHMA the highest stage or role in corporeal world
In Subtle Region:Ram's soul is the HERO as he is the same Shankar the highest stage or role of subtleness
In incorporeal stage of corporeal world:Ram's soul is the hero again as he is the same Shankar who crosses his subtle stage and achieves the highest stage in incorporeal world and that is of SHIV,hence SHIV-Shankar gets combined....

....Hence in Murli it is said]

HEROIC ROLE's


"Prajapita brahma dwaara varsa deta hoon." and "Prajapita hi vruksh pati hai"
"Through Prajapita Brahma (i) give the property" and "Prajapita is the only husband of tree.(tree husband)"

"Shankar ko mahadev keh diya hai,vaastav mein mahadev toh mein hi hoon."
"Shankar has been called mahadev,actually i am the mahadev"

"Shankar na hota(Sakar mein) toh humko(SHIV) Shankar ke saath milaate bhi nahi."
"If Shankar had not been there(in corporeal world) then i (shiv) would have never been combined with Shankar."

"Jaise ShivBaba sookshm hai vaise Shankar bhi sookshm hai."
"Like ShivBaba is subtle,similarly Shankar is also subtle"

....baba had asked us to attain corporeal stage to subtle stage to incorporeal stage within second.....so this is what....
same soul in different role!!!

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Re: 8 critical q's which will change everything in this Rudra Gy

Post by Sach_Khand » 29 Jun 2011

RudraPutra wrote:....how come you say that subtle stage is the maximum stage of Shankar??
SORRY!!!this is not so...
Any proof for your statement?
IMO, all the knowledge in Murlis is with respect to Sangamyug. And in Sangamyug only there is sukshma vatan (as written about in Murlis). If not there is no subtle Brahma, Vishnu or Shankar. All these three different souls of subtle deities are limited to Subtle Region and have nothing to do in corporeal world. There are Murli points which support this.
RudraPutra wrote:(subtle staged)Shankar is the head of the highest stage of subtleness(others are Brahma as head for the least and Vishnu for the mediocre stage of subtleness)
but this doesn't mean that actors playing the role of Brahma,Vishnu and Shankar never achieves incorporeal stage....
definitely....every soul's house is Paramdham.....but among those the soul which not only achieves the incorporeal stage in its corporeal form but also achieves the stage of Shiv and hence gets combined with Shiv is none other than Shankar...
Hence Shiv-Shankar and not Shiv-Brahma or Shiv-Vishnu.....because all are numberwise....only one is numberone...
All souls play part of Brahma Vishnu and Shankar in their own sense. Who is number One will get revealed in the end. It is waste arguing now.
RudraPutra wrote:that's what answered above.....all are numberwise and only one is number one....who gets combined with Shiv and becomes Shiv Shankar....
The One who plays Mahadev is confused with Shankar of Subtle Region because in subtle stage Shankar's stage is highest. That has nothing to do with the part in this world. People mix up the highest stage possible (concept of Shankar's stage and not any particular soul) with Shiv.
I am quoting you,
"Shankar ko mahadev keh diya hai,vaastav mein mahadev toh mein hi hoon."
"Shankar has been called mahadev,actually i am the mahadev"

Actually Mahadev is Shiv Himself and not any other soul. And mixing up Shankar of Subtle Region with corporeal Mahadev is also a great mistake similar to calling Krsihna of Satyug as The God of Gita.
RudraPutra wrote:What do you mean by HERO partdhaari?....he will play as the top most and the heroic character in any form,in any birth it may be ...
In corporeal world:Ram's soul is the HERO as he is the same PRAJAPITA Brahma the highest stage or role in corporeal world
In Subtle Region:Ram's soul is the HERO as he is the same Shankar the highest stage or role of subtleness
In incorporeal stage of corporeal world:Ram's soul is the hero again as he is the same Shankar who crosses his subtle stage and achieves the highest stage in incorporeal world and that is of Shiv,hence Shiv-Shankar gets combined...
It is said in Murli that you call Bap-Dada and they call Shiv-Shankar. That means Dada is the partdhari Shankar or Mahadev through whom Shiv or Bap plays the role of Mahadev.
I quote you,
"Prajapita Brahma dwaara varsa deta hoon." and "Prajapita hi vruksh pati hai"
"Through Prajapita Brahma (i) give the property" and "Prajapita is the only husband of tree.(tree husband)"
RudraPutra wrote:....Hence in Murli it is said]

"Shankar na hota(Sakar mein) toh humko(Shiv) Shankar ke saath milaate bhi nahi."
"If Shankar had not been there(in corporeal world) then i (Shiv) would have never been combined with Shankar."
This is perfect because there is Shankar in Subtle Region with highest possible subtle stage. But that subtle Shankar is different from Mahadev of this corporeal world. This Maha - Dev, the Greatest giver of boons, is none other than Shiv, The GodFather, through Dada or Prajapita Brahma (who is both Maata and Pita according to Murlis)
RudraPutra wrote:"Jaise ShivBaba sookshm hai vaise Shankar bhi sookshm hai."
"Like ShivBaba is subtle,similarly Shankar is also subtle"
And this proves that Shankar does not play corporeal part in Sangamyug. But Shiv enters that one who plays corporeal part in Sangamyug and not a subtle partdhari. All confusion is because of mixing Subtle Region deity Shankar with Mahadev or ShivBaba of The Confluence Age.
And this corporeal part is Maat-Pita or the lap of The GodFather.
RudraPutra wrote:....Baba had asked us to attain corporeal stage to subtle stage to incorporeal stage within second.....so this is what....
same soul in different role!!!
But this soul is not the soul of subtle deity Shankar of the deity world. It is Dada in whom Bap enters, after making this one His wife and then through this one adopts children and in those adopted is also the same one which becomes Dada based on the knowledge within. Hence Dada is bothe Banni (wife) of Shiv and also bachha {avval-din} (child {numberone}) of Shiv. And Shiv has taken responsibility of actions of this one bachha only. Because whatever this bachha does is for the good of all humanity, afterall this one is Maat-Pita of humanity.

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Re: 8 critical q's which will change everything in this Rudra Gy

Post by RudraPutra » 01 Jul 2011

Sach_Khand wrote: IMO, all The Knowledge in Murlis is with respect to Sangamyug. And in Sangamyug only there is sukshma vatan (as written about in Murlis). If not there is no subtle Brahma, Vishnu or Shankar. All these three different souls of subtle deities are limited to Subtle Region and have nothing to do in corporeal world. There are Murli points which support this.
....in Murli only it has been cleared that up there is nothing like sukshm vatan ....it is the stage of soul....and there are many points which had been discussed in many threads of many forums about the subtle stage of Shankar and it's corporeal proof.....go through that if you want.....but am tired to keep those proof's again and again ,that too in front of you....
All souls play part of Brahma Vishnu and Shankar in their own sense. Who is number One will get revealed in the end. It is waste arguing now.
....then argument itself is waste.....if we just have to wait and watch.....so from here onwards shall i expect you to remain mum....till nothing gets reveal ???
The One who plays Mahadev is confused with Shankar of Subtle Region because in subtle stage Shankar's stage is highest. That has nothing to do with the part in this world. People mix up the highest stage possible (concept of Shankar's stage and not any particular soul) with Shiv.
...
I am quoting you,
"Shankar ko mahadev keh diya hai,vaastav mein mahadev toh mein hi hoon."
"Shankar has been called mahadev,actually i am the mahadev"

Actually Mahadev is Shiv Himself and not any other soul. And mixing up Shankar of Subtle Region with corporeal Mahadev is also a great mistake similar to calling Krsihna of Satyug as The God of Gita.
"Shankar ke liye bhi samjhaaya hai ki unka koi part nahi hai(sakari avastha mein nahi hai lekin sakari duniya mein toh hai).Iska matlab yah nahi ki unko uda dena chahiye.....ek taraf gaate bhi hai dev 2 mahadev.Mahadev Shankar ko kaha jaata hai."....MU 8.10.85
"For Shankar also it has been explained that he do not have any part(not in corporeal stage but definitely in corporeal world).But this doesn't mean that we have to remove him away.....on one side we also sing dev2 mahadev. Mahadev is called to Shankar only."
....well what would you say for this....
Shankar is a character played by the CORPOREAL PRAJAPITA when he reaches subtle stage and is called SHIV-Shankar when he crosses subtle stage and attains SHIV baap samaan(similar to Father's) incorporeal stage....
it has been proved here....so how come SHIV and Shankar both are MAHADEV????
simple.....SHIV is MAHADEV through Shankar.....hence SHIV-Shankar combined....!!!
MOREOVER,in Murli it has been said that by putting Krishna's name in Gita we had our downfall.....but show me any Murli point which states that we had our downfall by combining SHIV and Shankar....??????

It is said in Murli that you call Bap-Dada and they call Shiv-Shankar. That means Dada is the partdhari Shankar or Mahadev through whom Shiv or Bap plays the role of Mahadev.
....OF COURSE....but who is this Dada?
From soul point of view,SHIV is Father of all souls,including PRAJAPITA(not talking about Dada Lekhraj Brahma,coz you consider him)....hence from soul point of view PRAJAPITA is the big brother as he is the one who reaches the soul stage at first...

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This is perfect because there is Shankar in Subtle Region with highest possible subtle stage. But that subtle Shankar is different from Mahadev of this corporeal world. This Maha - Dev, the Greatest giver of boons, is none other than Shiv, The GodFather, through Dada or Prajapita Brahma (who is both Maata and Pita according to Murlis)
exactly....but how SHIV will give anything without coming to corporeal world.....name goes to CORPOREAL BODY,dear....
that is PRAJAPITA BRAHMA who is named as such in corporeal world and is called Shankar in SUBTLE stage and
SHIV-Shankar when reaches the SHIV samaan incorporeal stage....
RudraPutra wrote:"Jaise ShivBaba sookshm hai vaise Shankar bhi sookshm hai."
"Like ShivBaba is subtle,similarly Shankar is also subtle"
And this proves that Shankar does not play corporeal part in Sangamyug. But Shiv enters that one who plays corporeal part in Sangamyug and not a subtle partdhari. All confusion is because of mixing Subtle Region deity Shankar with Mahadev or ShivBaba of The Confluence Age.
And this corporeal part is Maat-Pita or the lap of The GodFather.
why you say so? in Murli it has been clearly stated that
you have to become Avyakt(subtle) without leaving your corporeal body
so why not Shankar partdhaari cannot be corporeal?....you are crossing Murli points....
and since both are subtle at same level(when Shankar reaches shiv's stage)this itself proves that SHIV-Shankar are combined correctly....

RudraPutra wrote:....Baba had asked us to attain corporeal stage to subtle stage to incorporeal stage within second.....so this is what....
same soul in different role!!!
But this soul is not the soul of subtle deity Shankar of the deity world. It is Dada in whom Bap enters, after making this one His wife and then through this one adopts children and in those adopted is also the same one which becomes Dada based on The Knowledge within. Hence Dada is bothe Banni (wife) of Shiv and also bachha {avval-din} (child {numberone}) of Shiv. And Shiv has taken responsibility of actions of this one bachha only. Because whatever this bachha does is for the good of all humanity, afterall this one is Maat-Pita of humanity.

....you yourself says SHIV enters corporeal one and now you are talking about Brahma Dada Lekhraj...who is Subtle Region dweller....well,strange.....i cannot cross your double standard attitude,sorry....

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Re: 8 critical q's which will change everything in this Rudra Gy

Post by Sach_Khand » 01 Jul 2011

RudraPutra wrote:....in Murli only it has been cleared that up there is nothing like sukshm vatan ....it is the stage of soul....and there are many points which had been discussed in many threads of many forums about the subtle stage of Shankar and it's corporeal proof.....go through that if you want.....but am tired to keep those proof's again and again ,that too in front of you....
I too am tired giving Murli proofs.
But I would like to say that there is a Murli point which says that I am not the soul of Brahma Vishnu Shankar. Here these BVS which are referred to are the subtle deities and not deities of this corporeal world. I have already quoted somewhere a Murli point where it is said that if we ask Shankar, although we cannot ask, but suppose we ask him "whose body is this". Then he (ie., the soul of Shankar) would say that this is mine.
It just proves that Shankar is a soul and not just the name of a part and this soul has a body which is subtle and this Shankar resides in Subtle Region, not in this corporeal world. This is my opinion. You are free to have your opinion. And let me have mine.
RudraPutra wrote:....then argument itself is waste.....if we just have to wait and watch.....so from here onwards shall i expect you to remain mum....till nothing gets reveal ???
Yes. It is better we keep mum whenever sharing of points and knowledge or views turns into an arguement. Is there any way to prove who is number one soul after Shiv? Atleast I do not think so.
RudraPutra wrote:"Shankar ke liye bhi samjhaaya hai ki unka koi part nahi hai(Shankar ke roop se Sakar vatan mein).Iska matlab yah nahi ki unko uda dena chahiye....ek taraf gaate bhi hai dev 2 mahadev.Mahadev Shankar ko kaha jaata hai."....MU 8.10.85
"For Shankar also it has been explained that he do not have any part(in form of Shankar's character at corporeal world).But this doesn't mean that we have to remove him away.....on one side we also sing dev2 mahadev. Mahadev is called to Shankar only."
....well what would you say for this....
I can give you a Murli point which says that "Dev Dev Mahadev kahna wrong hai" [saying Dev Dev Mahadev is wrong]. There it is said that Brahma is Mahadev.
RudraPutra wrote: Shankar is a character played by the CORPOREAL PRAJAPITA when he reaches subtle stage and is called Shiv-Shankar when he crosses subtle stage and attains Shiv baap samaan(similar to Father's) incorporeal stage....
it has been proved here....so how come Shiv and Shankar both are MAHADEV????
simple.....Shiv is MAHADEV through Shankar.....hence Shiv-Shankar combined....!!!
MOREOVER,in Murli it has been said that by putting Krishna's name in Gita we had our downfall.....but show me any Murli point which states that we had our downfall by combining Shiv and Shankar....??????
It is said that only those will get correct knowledge who has done Bhakti of Shiv and not of Shankar. In Murlis it is said many times that Prajapita Brahma cannot be called as Shankar. But it is ignored by AIVV. You have quoted a Murli point where it is said that Varsa is given through Prajapita Brahma. Can you give a point which says that varsa is given through Shankar? We have never heard in Murlis anytime about Shankar kumar or kumari. So, it is better to understand and recognise Prajapita Brahma and leave Shankar to do his work.
RudraPutra wrote:....OF COURSE....but who is this Dada?
From soul point of view,Shiv is Father of all souls,including PRAJAPITA(not talking about Dada Lekhraj Brahma,coz you consider him)....hence from soul point of view PRAJAPITA is the big Brother as he is the one who reaches the soul stage at first...
IMO, Dada is Mama Saraswati. This soul is both wife of Shiv and also the eldest son of Shiv based on the knowledge within this soul.
RudraPutra wrote: why you say so? in Murli it has been clearly stated that
you have to become Avyakt(subtle) without leaving your corporeal body
so why not Shankar partdhaari cannot be corporeal?...you are crossing Murli points...
and since both are subtle at same level(when Shankar reaches Shiv's stage)this itself proves that Shiv-Shankar are combined correctly....
1) I am not crossing Murli points.
2) Shankar cannot be a corporeal partdhari because even before recreation (because this is not fresh but done again and again in every Kalpa) of Brahmins through corporeal Brahma, subtle recreation is complete. First subtle recreation takes place and then of this corporeal world. Subtle creation of Shiv are subtle BVS. Just that. Nothing more. And later Brahmins are created in the corporeal world. Brahmins are not in Subtle Region and their Father (Father of humanity) Prajpaita Brahma is also in this corporeal world. And revealation of Prajapita Brahma is also the revealation of shiv. This is my opinion. There is a Murli point which says that recognising Prajapaita Brahma and you become adhikari (Hindi) of inheritence (may be grammatical mistakes).

RudraPutra wrote: ....you yourself says Shiv enters corporeal one and now you are talking about Brahma Dada Lekhraj...who is Subtle Region dweller....well,strange.....i cannot cross your double standard attitude,sorry....
Lekharaj is not Subtle Region dweller. IMO, actually Lekharaj Himself is Shiv Who plays The Nirakar part in Sangamyug. And this is the reason why there was no name of Shiv in the early yagnya but Prajapati Brahma (Lekharaj) was considered as Gita Inventor. See early literature.
No one is trying to explain the knowledge given at the early times of yagnya.
That knowledge cannot be bunch of lies. But then they could not understand. Actually knowledge is simple. But we cannot accept because of our prejudices or concepts. IMO, even Mama Saraswati could not understand this simple thing that Prajapati Brahma (Lekharaj) is GodFather. It seems ridiculous for any intellectual to accept human being as GodFather. And hence such a long period of teaching has to take place. Where Mama Saraswati is the real student and Lekharaj is The Teacher. Once this number one student understands and accepts the Truth then this one teaches others and reveals Shiv through self to the world. And hence Mata Guru.

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Re: 8 critical q's which will change everything in this Rudra Gy

Post by RudraPutra » 02 Jul 2011

Sach_Khand wrote: I too am tired giving Murli proofs.
....yeah i know....
But I would like to say that there is a Murli point which says that I am not the soul of Brahma Vishnu Shankar. Here these BVS which are referred to are the subtle deities and not deities of this corporeal world.
....who tells you that SHIV and Shankar's soul is same....i don't understand...does any PBK says that SHIV and Shankar's soul is same....???....no...why then you are trying to put this stuff on our head?????
I have already quoted somewhere a Murli point where it is said that if we ask Shankar, although we cannot ask, but suppose we ask him "whose body is this". Then he (ie., the soul of Shankar) would say that this is mine.
It just proves that Shankar is a soul and not just the name of a part and this soul has a body which is subtle and this Shankar resides in Subtle Region, not in this corporeal world.
arrey dear if we cannot ask Shankar then why BABA had stated such sentence....that means there is something that we are not catching.....simple....
moreover SHIV himself had asked us in many Murli's to consider as ShivBaba's body and not any other one's....
"On whose lap have you come.If you say ShivBaba you are pass.But if you say BRAHMA then you are failed"
....and even baba had said in Murli "Baap hai gupt"(Father IS COVERT)....this itself proves that if you ask the corporeal Father whose body is this....he will never say that this body is getting used by SHIV or something like that....
and this Murli point itself proves that Shankar has body(corporeal identity)...
in Murli it has been said that
"Shankar ko bhi deh ka ahankar ho sakta hai"("Shankar also might have the consciousness of body")
This is my opinion. You are free to have your opinion. And let me have mine.
OK...you have yours and i'll have mine....
Yes. It is better we keep mum whenever sharing of points and knowledge or views turns into an arguement. Is there any way to prove who is number one soul after Shiv? Atleast I do not think so.
yesssssssss there is way...."Father SHOWS SON and SON SHOWS Father"....Shankar being the eldest child,SHIV gets manifested through Shankar.....simple....
I can give you a Murli point which says that "Dev Dev Mahadev kahna wrong hai" [saying Dev Dev Mahadev is wrong]. There it is said that Brahma is Mahadev.
Of course and that BRAHMA is none other than PRAJAPITA BRAHMA(and not Dada Lekhraj's soul)...
It is said that only those will get correct knowledge who has done Bhakti of Shiv and not of Shankar.
about SHIV....bindi SHIV cannot be worshipped even in Bhaktimarg....yes of course in form of SHIV+LING(SHIV+Shankar)..
i had never come to this point yet.....would you be able to quote the exact Murli...if it is possible....
In Murlis it is said many times that Prajapita Brahma cannot be called as Shankar. But it is ignored by AIVV.
....AIVV doesn't ignore any Murli point....yeah,certain purusharthi's like me might take some time to answer you,but that is not fair to point out the whole AIVV responsible for that....
that is true....
PRAJAPITA BRAHMA is the corporeal stage name of Ram's soul
Shankar is the subtle stage name of Ram's soul
ShivBaba or SHIVSHANKAR is the incorporeal stage name of Ram's soul
....but name goes to corporeal body.....hence depending on the stages corporeal Chariot is getting the titles....
definitely PRAJAPITA BRAHMA is never called Shankar....due to the stage differences....
"Baap ne samjhaaya hai PRAJAPITA BRAHMA jo manushya hai wo hi FARISHTA banta hai."....MU 23.1.84
"Father had explained that PRAJAPITA BRAHMA,who is (corporeal)manushya(human) now he only becomes SUBTLE "
You have quoted a Murli point where it is said that Varsa is given through Prajapita Brahma. Can you give a point which says that varsa is given through Shankar?
....varsa is practical dear that too in front of this world in corporeal world.....so it has been said that Varsa is given through Prajapita Brahma(Ram's soul in corporeal stage form)...
We have never heard in Murlis anytime about Shankar Kumar or Kumari. So, it is better to understand and recognise Prajapita Brahma and leave Shankar to do his work.
of course....Kumar or kumari are created in this corporeal world and never in Subtle Region....hence Father is named as PRAJAPITA....because creator creates his creation in corporeal world....

SAKARI se AKARI se NIRAKARI.....ban na hai....
Corporeal to Subtle to Incorporeal(stage)....we have to become
....this is the process....similarly the process for human tree Father it applies....
PRAJAPITA(sakari or corporeal) - to - Shankar(akari or subtle) - to - SHIV-Shankar(nirakari baap samaan or incorporeal Father like)
IMO, Dada is Mama Saraswati. This soul is both wife of Shiv and also the eldest son of Shiv based on The Knowledge within this soul.
well that's something new....can you support this with any Murli proof...
1) I am not crossing Murli points.
...i felt so...hence i said so...
2) Shankar cannot be a corporeal partdhari because even before recreation (because this is not fresh but done again and again in every Kalpa) of Brahmins through corporeal Brahma, subtle recreation is complete. First subtle recreation takes place and then of this corporeal world. Subtle creation of Shiv are subtle BVS. Just that. Nothing more. And later Brahmins are created in the corporeal world. Brahmins are not in Subtle Region and their Father (Father of humanity) Prajpaita Brahma is also in this corporeal world. And revealation of Prajapita Brahma is also the revealation of Shiv. This is my opinion. There is a Murli point which says that recognising Prajapaita Brahma and you become adhikari (Hindi) of inheritence (may be grammatical mistakes).
why is the need for creating Subtle Region....in Murli it has been said
"Main teen murtiyon ke saath hi aata hoon"
"I come along with three idols"...
....moortiyan or idols are always in corporeal world.....understand the meaning of idols....!!!
BRAHMA-Vishnu-Shankar.....names are kept on corporeal body....!!!
these are the stages and the act done according to these stages.....again and again again i repeated this point.....on basis of stages and their act the corporeal ones are named...kaam ke adhaar par naam hota hai....(names are kept on basis of deeds)...

PRAJAPITA's soul = Shankar partdhaari's soul = PARAMATMA's soul(not SHIV but the one who becomes SHIV baap samaan....)

Lekharaj is not Subtle Region dweller. IMO, actually Lekharaj Himself is Shiv Who plays The Nirakar part in Sangamyug. And this is the reason why there was no name of Shiv in the early yagnya but Prajapati Brahma (Lekharaj) was considered as Gita Inventor. See early literature.
then why Yagya is named as RUDRA GYAAN Yagya....
No one is trying to explain The Knowledge given at the early times of yagnya.
That knowledge cannot be bunch of lies. But then they could not understand. Actually knowledge is simple. But we cannot accept because of our prejudices or concepts.
...i accept this....
IMO, even Mama Saraswati could not understand this simple thing that Prajapati Brahma (Lekharaj) is GodFather. It seems ridiculous for any intellectual to accept human being as GodFather. And hence such a long period of teaching has to take place. Where Mama Saraswati is the real student and Lekharaj is The Teacher. Once this number one student understands and accepts the Truth then this one teaches others and reveals Shiv through self to the world. And hence Mata Guru
....godfather do not have to listen to someone else.....in Murli there has been many proofs stating that there were certain children who used to drill BRAHMA and Mama and BRAHMA as well as Mama alongwith others used to follow their directions.....so BRAHMA is not GODFATHER....
"BRAHMA ko bhi PRAJAPITA kehte hai"..MU 28.11.76
"Brahma is also called PRAJAPITA"
....why 'also'?....that means PRAJAPITA is someone else...but since he was not there at the time of BRAHMA baba(when Murli was orated) Brahma was given the title PRAJAPITA....
...now about Mama...
how she will reveal the SHIV....?????
is she in corporeal form....if yes...are you aware of that corporeal form or still in research....??????
and if this is again just your opinion,then alright....you can continue with your own.....BEST LUCK!!!

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