Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by arjun » 29 Sep 2011

fluffy bunny wrote:Have the Gulabi Buddhus gone off looking for their next drama and left the PBKs alone now? Has everything settled down?
No. I heard from someone that they keep organizing some demonstrations in other parts of Farrukhabad now and then but not in front of the mini-Madhubans.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by satyaprakash » 01 Oct 2011

fluffy bunny wrote:It always breaks my heart when I hear a BK/PBK say that.

Generations of individuals have thrown away years of their lives and all sort of opportunities to experience on the hope that something, Destruction etc, is just around the corner ... 2 to 3 years as they used to say back in the 80s, the 70s, the 50s, the 40s.

It is a terrible trap. And we have gone off topic here.
May be this topic is more important than what is happening in Farukkabad mini-mb!
People are always afraid of sudden death. BK's assured them that it is very near and got many followers, mostly women. Baba Lekhraj made hay out of this opportunity. To this fear of death they (BKs) added some distorted points from Hindu scriptures and made a cult out of this. They survived well. Made huge money and purchased big properties all over the world. As westerners are never exposed to eastern thought, even this partial and distorted exposure attracted them. They also contributed heavily for the BK cult. With time, Lekhraj died and also many of his senior followers died a natural death in their old age.
PBKs Virendra Dev Dixit Baba is a very clever man. Even though he has never gone to any college, his native intelligence told him that here is a vacuum and grab it. That is what he did. He took the ideas of BKs added his own masala, distorted it more and presented as an advanced knowledge. He added items like he himself being the god's messenger/future god/Narayana/Rama or whatever came to his fancy. He also added that he will not die. He could attract some frustrated recruits from BK (ex-BKs) to his fold. Now he has a convenient bank balance and is assured (as of his own imagination) of comforts till his death. He has survived well for 35 years without the world ending! But he may have more trouble coming his way. Truth cannot be hidden for long. Satya has its own power to remove asatya!
The world goes on and there is no sign of it ending. But there is every sign of Virendra Dev Dixit Baba growing old and approaching his natural death like everyone else in the world! But he has a set of fanatic followers who are even ready to put the future of their girl child in his hands and ruin them.
fluffy bunny wrote: It is a terrible trap.
Yes it is!

As Virendra Dev Dixit is walking away with the fruits accumulated by BKs, there is a lot of anger and hatred among BKs on Virendra Dev Dixit. This manifests as these incidents. But outsiders know that both BKs and PBKs are equally in the same ignorant level. They do not care for them. That is why even in the next door of PBK place, there is no support for them.
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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by sita » 01 Oct 2011

Baba Lekhraj made hay out of this opportunity. To this fear of death they (BKs) added some distorted points from Hindu scriptures and made a cult out of this. They survived well.
Dear brother,

You have wrong information. Brahma Baba had invested all of his money in this, and this was not a small amount and everything had been eaten by others. He used to live simply till his dearth. There is all chance that many people had even been attracted by the free life, the opportunity to be accomodated and provided for and not by the ideas. But these money also finished. There used to be a beggary period, with scarce money. Even if Dadis today enjoy lots of money and property, still they enjoy it in simple way and not extravagantly they don't waste money, at least not in the way anyone in the world will waste them. They may make gigaprograms but they do it in the name of service of others and not to collect money from others. If from this followers or money emerge this is different, this is not the aim. Many Dadis and Dadas used to lead poor lives in the organization in the beginning, but they had invested whole of their life, little money they may had, effort time and energy in this, so they may have the feeling they have deserved their retirement and being cared for with their efforts that is so understandable, but stillthey have not retired anc continue to bear one or another discomfort in the name of service even at old ages. Whatever they have given is nothing in comparison to the little they take. Everyone needs food and shelter. If you are to accuse them in wasting money this is not the right people, the rich people from the world who buy a box of cigars for 400 000 $ are to be accused for this. The accusation that Brahma Baba has made it for money does not hold ground and is not proved through his practical life he had had. At the time of his life hardly one or two small properties used to be purchased and he did not visited them often and to enjoy luxury, but lived in a small empty room in a hut. If you will say that he has done this reninciation for others, so that they may enjoy after him, still this is some form of service to humanity, is it not. But followers even today lead simple life and they are mostly poor. Although BK is regarded as rich organization and it is even said in the Murli that it will become clear that Om mandali is the richest in the world, it has not become practical yet, and maybe it is not a matter of money. There is a stock and mine of virtues in the followers.
The world goes on and there is no sign of it ending.
This is something new and it revealls you are deeply unconsious, asleep and nonsensitive to the time and atmosphere of the world. I had had the idea that the world is ending even before going to BK/PBK, that I am not very clever. Still there are many people from the outside world who can sense that. The argument that such end of the world predictions has been there since the beginning of time does not take into account that then the weapon for destroying the world was not there, and destruction was not possible. When the atomic boms used to emerge, there used to be strong civil response to this, but now people are used to it.If you believe that humanity will have the comon sense to not use this, you are idealist.
But outsiders know that both BKs and PBKs are equally in the same ignorant level. They do not care for them. That is why even in the next door of PBK place, there is no support for them.
This is so very natural, because the BK and PBKs say to the rest of the world that the rest of the world will be destroyed, people will get angry, because wwe question the world we live in and the life anyone may enjoy. They build their life, family and career and we say it is of no use. BK/PBK seem to be self sufficient and don't care for the rest of the world. The don't support the world, so naturally they don't receive support from the word. And this is not what they are looking for. Name and fame, support, money or followers. Whatever anyone does, he does fro his own benefit. It is clear that followers are very few in comparison to many other religions and organizations. So if you know the truth with which you will fight the falsehood, you have in teh face of BK/PBK a small enemy to fight with. Please, have the courage to face the mighty religions and organizations in which the falsehood is there.

It is true that there are many problems in the BK/PBK. One may say that people take it as charity place, to live and travel comfortably, but still it is a far better place than everywhere else that i know.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by arjun » 01 Oct 2011

satyaprakash wrote:PBKs Veerendra Dev Dixit Baba is a very clever man. Even though he has never gone to any college, his native intelligence told him that here is a vacuum and grab it. That is what he did. He took the ideas of BKs added his own masala, distorted it more and presented as an advanced knowledge. He added items like he himself being the god's messenger/future god/Narayana/Rama or whatever came to his fancy. He also added that he will not die. He could attract some frustrated recruits from BK (ex-BKs) to his fold. Now he has a convenient bank balance and is assured (as of his own imagination) of comforts till his death. He has survived well for 35 years without the world ending! But he may have more trouble coming his way. Truth cannot be hidden for long. Satya has its own power to remove asatya!
You are free to spread rumours and lies.
Truth cannot be hidden for long. Satya has its own power to remove asatya!
If you have truth on your side why do you shy away from answering Rudraputra's questions framed especially for you. It is easy to defame others, but difficult to answer questions. Truth makes you fearless. But it seems you are afraid to answer the questions put up by PBKs.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Oct 2011

satyaprakash wrote:As westerners are never exposed to eastern thought, even this partial and distorted exposure attracted them. They also contributed heavily for the BK cult.

Veerendra Dev Dixit is walking away with the fruits accumulated by BKs, there is a lot of anger and hatred among BKs on Veerendra Dev Dixit. This manifests as these incidents.
I strongly agree with these two point of view.

I was one such Westerner. I liked Indian culture and was searching for a Yoga teacher, and was fooled by the BKs completely for a short while. I stuck for a while because I thought to myself that perhaps there were deeper or hidden secrets to be found but there were not.

I know it creates big problems and hurts individuals which I think is terrible ... but I find this anger and hatred amongst BKs hilarious. That is most of their level ... petty merchants ... jealous shop keepers ... bitching and fighting amongst themselves to protect their consumers and product .. cheating and stealing best customers and shop workers from each other.

Spiritual University? Ha. Spiritual bazaar more like. No wonder it say in the Murlis the children should not eat dirty things from the marketplace. The "dirty things" are the products the BKs make.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by Roy » 01 Oct 2011

satyaprakash wrote:Baba Lekhraj made hay out of this opportunity.
This is such a distortion of the truth. The current BK leadership may well be dodgy, but Brahma Baba as Sita Bhai has pointed out, surrendered all his wealth to the movement. I have been told that at one point, he had to resort to cutting up old tyres, to make shoes out of them.
satyaprakash wrote:PBKs Virendra Dev Dixit Baba is a very clever man. Even though he has never gone to any college, his native intelligence told him that here is a vacuum and grab it. That is what he did. He took the ideas of BKs added his own masala, distorted it more and presented as an advanced knowledge.
He'd have to be more than very clever, he'd have to be an absolute genius imo. The more you study AK, the more you see the incognito genius behind it. With a superficial or wrong motive for studying it, these deeper aspects are simply not available, and it can appear to make no sense. So, although i acknowlege your right to your opinions about AK, i had a big smile on my face whilst reading them.

Roy

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Oct 2011

Roy wrote: This is such a distortion of the truth ... I have been told that at one point, he had to resort to cutting up old tyres, to make shoes out of them.
There is a lot of myth making in the Lekhraj Kripalani story, most of all concerning financial issues. However, yes I agree the money making and senior living off the yugya really started once he died. Those of us who care about these things, and getting it all correct, have given up every getting to the truth of what really went on. All we can know is that what they are telling us is not true.

Lekhraj Kripalani was not doing anything noble. From approx 1932 until at least 1950 he was indulging himself in his fantasy of being God and surrounded by his gopis ... the wives and children he had stolen off other families to create his, not God's, court. Remember that until the brainwashing, there was no God Shiva from 1936 and no God Shiva in the religion until at least 1950. We still do not know when the introduction of a God Shiva happened, except that it was after 1950.

Therefore, from 1932 until 1950 he was indulging his own fantasy and vanity ... AND ACCEPTING DONATIONS AND GOVERNMENT COMPENSATION ... to do so. Yes, from the very beginning, Lekhraj Kripalani had supporters and accepted donations.

I do not think it is enough that the BKs turn around and say, "Oh but we live in such humble wealth and comfort!". That is just a trick. Their living condition should not be measured against Western standards but Indian standards ... the living standards of an old man, widow or ex-prostitute without any family. By those standards, trust me they are enjoying splendid wealth and comforts.

I think I do agree that Virendra Dev Dixit is really just repeating and re-packing the BK model but at a more metaphorical AK has the same kind of kinks and quirks as BK Knowledge, but even moreso. Whether it is just one man's unique mental illness or whether there is the influence of any divine or spiritual being ... who knows. Only time will tell ...

One lays one's cards and places one's bet. Don't gamble your life away on it.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by Roy » 01 Oct 2011

fluffy bunny wrote:There is a lot of myth making in the Lekhraj Kripalani story, most of all concerning financial issues. However, yes I agree the money making and senior living off the yugya really started once he died. Those of us who care about these things, and getting it all correct, have given up every getting to the truth of what really went on. All we can know is that what they are telling us is not true.
There is obviously truth in what you say, as you have uncovered hard evidence to back this up. Also, the Sakar Murlis themselves, reveal that there is much fabrication about the early days, if you know what you are looking for. The comment i made is also just hearsay; even though i trust the person who told me this many years ago; but who knows where this story originated from. However, it says in the Sakar Murli, that Brahma Baba left everything once Father Shiv entered him, and i trust this.

"The Father says – at the age of 60 years of this one(Brahma Baba-DL), at the end of the last one of many births, when he reaches the stage of vaanprasth (retirement), I have entered in him(in Karachi in 1947). Only then did he too leave everything." [Mu 14.11.07]

My belief is that Brahma Baba(DL) was a well meaning soul, even if he did not always get it right.

Roy

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by Sach_Khand » 03 Oct 2011

satyaprakash wrote:As westerners are never exposed to eastern thought, even this partial and distorted exposure attracted them. They also contributed heavily for the BK cult.

Veerendra Dev Dixit is walking away with the fruits accumulated by BKs, there is a lot of anger and hatred among BKs on Veerendra Dev Dixit. This manifests as these incidents.
fluffy bunny wrote: I strongly agree with these two point of view.

I was one such Westerner. I liked Indian culture and was searching for a Yoga teacher, and was fooled by the BKs completely for a short while. I stuck for a while because I thought to myself that perhaps there were deeper or hidden secrets to be found but there were not.

I know it creates big problems and hurts individuals which I think is terrible ... but I find this anger and hatred amongst BKs hilarious. That is most of their level ... petty merchants ... jealous shop keepers ... bitching and fighting amongst themselves to protect their consumers and product .. cheating and stealing best customers and shop workers from each other.

Spiritual University? Ha. Spiritual bazaar more like. No wonder it say in the Murlis the children should not eat dirty things from the marketplace. The "dirty things" are the products the BKs make.
Dear Fluffy,
As it seems you are more intellectual and logical in approach and do not want to be caged in any rules and regulations of BKs, I suggest you to read Vivekanada. I hope it will help you to progress further in your efforts of knowing Indian culture and also in Yoga. I (or anyone for that matter) make you to attain your goal. You will have to do efforts for that. And I think that it is better for you to read thoughts of Vivekananda which will surely help you to develop yourself from within so that you can decide for yourself what is good for you and what is truth.

Today I had gone to Ramkrishna - Vivekanada Ashram (I go sometimes) and was just seeing their literature and saw a book which I thought is good for you to read. I even purchased it and will try to read it soon. And I suggest it for you. The book is,

WHAT RELIGION IS
In the words of Swami Vivekanada. (With a Biographical introduction by Christopher Isherwood).
-- edited by Swami Vidyatmananda. (John Yale, before joining sanyasi order of Vivekanada Ashram).

I hope you will make this effort instead of wasting time in finding faults and keep criticising someone without any actual interest in their teachings. I remembered you when I saw that book and I think it was possible because I really care for your progress in the path of enlightenment. With best wishes.

:neutral:
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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by Sach_Khand » 03 Oct 2011

fluffy bunny wrote: Their living condition should not be measured against Western standards but Indian standards ... the living standards of an old man, widow or ex-prostitute without any family. By those standards, trust me they are enjoying splendid wealth and comforts.
I consider this as abusive. And if this continues I wish that admin of this forum should ban fluffy from this forum. And I mean it and serious about this. My mother has become a widow just recently. Her living standard is good although not very good depending on your scale of goodness. One more of such comment from fluffy and I insist that fluffy should be banned. There are many other forums to discuss economy and politics in India and social causes in Indian society. But not this one. This is BK-PBK forum.

I expect the admin of this forum to take serious note of such comments,
If not ban me and I will be very happy to leave such a forum.

:neutral:
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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by Sach_Khand » 03 Oct 2011

satyaprakash wrote: As westerners are never exposed to eastern thought, even this partial and distorted exposure attracted them. They also contributed heavily for the BK cult.
Even when Swami Vivekanada went to chicago and gained fame he too was ridiculed by orthodox Hindus the same way as you have.
Do you think that even at this time foreigners are exposed to Indian culture or Indian sciences properly?

I saw in tv that a chinese woman (an eastern woman) was talking about Yoga (after Ramdev Baba made it so popular) and said that she had thought Yoga to be a new kind of exercise invented by americans (!) until the boom of Yoga in the world was brought by Ramdev Baba. And when Ramdev had gone even to USA for teaching Yoga the German tv DW was showing a show in which they were discussing about the benefits of Yoga and the tv anchor questioned the German (?) Yoga teacher that how they could help Indians (!)in learning Yoga better and amazingly the teacher told that they could make it more simple so that Indians can do it easily (not exact words). And a lady was doing Yoga (Surya Namaskar) which they were showing in between. That lady actually used to lay flat on her abdomen while doing one of the step of surya namaskar. That is the way of doing Yoga in a better way or making Yoga more advanced by germans.
The tragedy of India and Indians is that for anything indigeous to become authenticated, Indians needs a stamp from westerners.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by arjun » 04 Oct 2011

fluffybunny wrote:Therefore, from 1932 until 1950 he was indulging his own fantasy and vanity ... AND ACCEPTING DONATIONS AND GOVERNMENT COMPENSATION ... to do so. Yes, from the very beginning, Lekhraj Kripalani had supporters and accepted donations.
Do you have any proof that Dada Lekhraj was accepting donations (from non-BKs) and Government compensation to establish the Yagya?

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Oct 2011

arjun wrote:Do you have any proof that Dada Lekhraj was accepting donations (from non-BKs) and Government compensation to establish the Yagya?
It was in one of the Kumar's biographies. It did not come direct. One of the original families got compensation from the British Indian government for a property they lost in Partition and then put it around the neck of Lekhraj Kirpalani in the form of gold coins. I cannot remember which book right now.

As far as donations, I was additionally thinking of Lekhraj Kirpalani's sponsor during the beggary period. A Sindhi woman.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by arjun » 06 Oct 2011

fluffy bunny wrote:It was in one of the Kumar's biographies. It did not come direct. One of the original families got compensation from the British Indian government for a property they lost in Partition and then put it around the neck of Lekhraj Kirpalani in the form of gold coins. I cannot remember which book right now.
I don't think this example is appropriate to prove that Dada Lekhraj accepted Government donations. Someone might have received compensation from British Government or any Government for an catastrophe like the Partition of India and got compensation from the Government and if that individual donates it to someone for spiritual service you cannot say that the receiver got it directly from the Government.
As far as donations, I was additionally thinking of Lekhraj Kirpalani's sponsor during the beggary period. A Sindhi woman.

This will have to be verified from BK history books that whether the person who donated a big amount to help the Yagya tide over the economic crisis was a BK or a non-BK.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Oct 2011

Is there any update about the girls and the BK/Gulabi Gang raid?
arjun wrote:I don't think this example is appropriate to prove that Dada Lekhraj accepted Government donations. Someone might have received compensation from British Government ...
That is a fair comment. All we do know is that he was treated as if he was God at that time and the Om Mandli accepted government money from its followers because I accept he took little for himself. In the book, it was said they hung golden coins around his neck. To them, at that point, he was god. I suspect if there was one family taking compensation, there were many.
fluffy bunny wrote:As far as donations, I was additionally thinking of Lekhraj Kirpalani's sponsor during the beggary period. A Sindhi woman.
This will have to be verified from BK history books that whether the person who donated a big amount to help the Yagya tide over the economic crisis was a BK or a non-BK.
Both you are I know how futile waiting for that would be. It would be like expecting a criminal gang to provide detailed accounts for the whole of its history.

In the older days, when they were more honest and open, some older BKWSU leaders did often mention that Lekhraj Kirpalani had a donor from within the Sindhi community, a woman. I cannot remember if it was written down or not. Obviously, they had to have money coming from somewhere as they did not work.

I have no faith at all in the Brahma Kumaris ever becoming honest. None whatsoever. I have given up on them. Not even Dharamraj will sort them out.

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