Shankar sukshmvatan

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sukshmbindu
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Shankar sukshmvatan

Post by sukshmbindu » 11 Oct 2011

hi all,
recently in one Sakar Murli baba said something like, "Shankar to sukshmvatan vaasi hain, prajapita brahma yahaan(on earth) hain ", then how come PBKs say, virendar dixit Dada is Shankar..

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Roy
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Re: Shankar sukshmvatan

Post by Roy » 11 Oct 2011

sukshmbindu wrote:recently in one Sakar Murli baba said something like, "Shankar to sukshmvatan vaasi hain, prajapita brahma yahaan(on earth) hain ", then how come PBKs say, virendar dixit Dada is Shankar..
Would you be kind enough to translate this point please suksh Bhai? Thank you.

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Re: Shankar sukshmvatan

Post by sukshmbindu » 12 Oct 2011

the essence was 'demi god Shankar resides in sukshm vatan, he doesnt take birth, he is responsible for destruction, prajapitabrahma is in corporeal world(it was a Sakar Murli and Dada Lekhraj aka brahmababa was alive then)"

many times in Murli BapDada says he adopts brahma to create "raajas ahwamedh rudra Gita Gyan Yagya
never he says he adopts Shankar.

rajas = kingly/royal
ashwamedh = horse(soul is compared to horse since it is a race of purusharth(efforts made to become perfect))
rudra = terrible, stromy
Gita = song of divine knowledge, bhagavat Gita
Gyan = knowledge
Yagya = oblation, sacrifice

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Re: Shankar sukshmvatan

Post by arjun » 12 Oct 2011

Dear sukshmabindu,
Om Shanti. When Baba says that Shankar is sukshmavatanvasi (Subtle Region dweller), He does not mean it in a literal sense. Subtle Region dweller means someone who remains in a stage of subtle thinking and churning even while being in the physical body. Shankar is always shown to be doing tapasya in the path of Bhakti. So, he always remains in the remembrance of the Father.

As regards Prajapita Brahma being here in this world, it is absolutely true, but it does not apply to Dada Lekhraj. He was just a titleholder Brahma and not the actual Prajapita Brahma. If he were to be the Prajapita Brahma, he should be present along with the praja, i.e. subjects. But he is not. So, it is the soul of the Confluence-Aged Ram or Shankar who gets revealed as Prajapita Brahma in the end.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Shankar sukshmvatan

Post by Roy » 12 Oct 2011

Dear Suksh Bhai

One always has to look at Murli points as a whole, not simply in isolation; otherwise misinterpretation can occur.

With regard to ShivBaba adopting Brahma, this is not entirely accurate, as it is Brahma who adopts the children when they become mouthborn progeny of Brahma. Obviously, it is ultimately ShivBaba doing the creating of Brahmin children, through Brahma; but as Father Shiv is always Father of all souls, he is not actually adopting anyone. The adoption of human corporeal children, is through the corporeal medium of Brahma; hence we become mouthborn progeny of Brahma.

"People(BKs) say ‘Prajapita Brahma’. But they do not know him exactly(they are thinking of Brahma Baba, who was the title holder from 1947 to 1969, during the absence of the true Prajapita-Ram from 1942 to 1969). Whose child is Brahma(Baba-DL)? You will say that the Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiva has adopted him. He is a human being isn’t it? All the souls are the children of God. Then, after (Father Shiv) gets a body(Adi Brahma-Gita Mata-Jagadamba), he adopts Prajapita Brahma(Ram). That is not an adoption(as Prajapita Brahma is already Father Shiv's child). Supreme Father Supreme Soul has not adopted. You have been adopted(by Brahma - Adi Brahma-Gita Mata initially, then Brahma Baba-DL takes over this role some years later). You are Brahma Kumars Kumaris. ShivBaba doesn’t adopt." [Mu 11.11.71]

Here are a few more points on this topic...

"Brahma(Baba-DL) is also called Prajapita(in the absence of the true Prajapita-Ram, between 1942 and 1969; Brahma Baba receives this title)." [Mu 28.11.76]

"Prajapita Brahma(Ram) will be here(in corporeal form) only. His(Brahma Baba's) last birth is Lekhraj. He cannot become Prajapita(as he is the creation of ShivBaba through Prajapita Brahma, at the beginning of the Confluence Age)." [Mu 21.08.73]

"This Brahma(Baba-DL) is adopted. Brahmins are (adopted) through Prajapita Brahma(Ram)." [Mu 6.02.71]

"It is explained, that through Brahma's(Prajapita-Ram's) body, Supreme Father(Shiv) (via the) Supreme (Human) Soul(Prajapita-Ram) comes (and) adopts Brahma(Baba-DL, at the beginning of the Confluence Age). " [Mu 11.12.83]

"It is this Brahma(Baba-Dada Lekhraj) who becomes Shri Krishna(first prince of the Golden Age). Brahma(Ram) is called Prajapita, the Father of the People. Krishna(Brahma Baba-DL) cannot be called this. Incorporeal God(Shiv) created Brahmins through the mouth of Brahma(Baba-DL)." [Mu 01.02.03]

“That one(Ram - not "this one", Brahma Baba) is called Prajapita Brahma, through whom the creation(child Krishna-DL) is created at the beginning(of the Confluence Age). He(Prajapita, Father of Humanity) is the Great-Great Grandfather(of all the religious fathers, who follow him throughout the broad Drama). ShivBaba can’t be called Great-Great Grandfather(as He is The Supreme Father of all souls - Parampita).” [Mu 3.05.72]

"Children don’t even understand that (Prajapita)Brahma must certainly be in corporeal form, through whom the Supreme Father Supreme Soul creates the (new)world (of Heaven-Ramraj)." (The Brahmin Religion is created through Brahma-DL, but not Heaven-Ramraj) [Mu 2.10.98]

"The Brahma(Dada Lekhraj), who is the dweller of the Subtle Region(Avyakt Brahma), cannot be called Prajapita(Father of the people). Prajapita is present here(in the corporeal world, and will be up to the very end, when the inheritance of Heaven-Ramraj is received)." [Mu 17.4.02]


Brahma Baba-DL cannot possibly be Prajapita Brahma, as the inheritance of heaven(ramraj), is received via Prajapita at the end. Brahma Baba is playing his own role via a subtle body at this time.

"For as long as Brahma Kumar-Kumari's are in the physical body, Prajapita Brahma(Ram) is also in the physical body." [Mu 03.11.87]

"I do not enter Brahma, the dweller of the Subtle Region(after 1969)." [Mu 4.11.72]

"Now you have become children of Prajapita Brahma(Ram). You know that ShivBaba will take you to heaven, through Prajapita Brahma(Ram)." [Mu 18.4.73]

"You know (that) two fathers(Shiv & Prajapita-Ram) are there. From two you get inheritance. Then there is no third(person). From Brahma(Dada Lekhraj) we do not get any inheritance." [Mu 1.2.68]

"ShivBaba bestows inheritance to Brahmakumaris and Brahmakumars through Prajapita Brahma(Father of Humanity-Ram). ShivBaba creates the Brahmin race through Brahma(Mother-Dada Lekhraj)." [Mu 1.03.76]


With regard to Shankar; the same soul's body(Ram i.e. Baba Dixit) through whom the part of Prajapita is played, is the same one through whom the part of Shankar is played from 1976. Prajapita(Baba Dixit) has already been adopted by Brahma in the form of Adi Brahma-Jagadamba, in his 83rd birth, at the beginning of the Yagya in 1936/7...

“Was he Prajapita(Ram), without having become a Brahmin?” If he is not a mouth born progeny, then how can he be Prajapita?" [no date]

The Shankar role begins in 1976, after Baba Dixit has had complete realisation of his part through his own own study between 1969 and 1976, so this role does not occur through a second adoption, but through complete self realisation.

"In the womb also, a soul enters after 5-6 months(Father Shiv is revealed through the body of Shankar, in 1976; after he spent 5-6 years churning the knowledge, finally achieving complete faith, in his own part of Prajapita-Ram, and being Shiva's Chariot, Shankar). Then there is little movement(Father Shiv begins to narrate through Shankar). This is also a drama which is fixed." [Mu 19.08.74]

Finally the point of Shankar being a Subtle Region dweller, which Arjun Bhai has explained to mean, that this is referring to the spiritual stage of Shankar(Baba Dixit), not that he resides in the Subtle Regions. No part can be played from there in any case, as ShivBaba has said that this region is simply a region of visions, that occur whilst one is still in the body...

“There is no history and geography of the Subtle Region. The Subtle Region and so on is in the path of the religious devotion(Bhakti). There is nothing (like this) in the path of knowledge. It doesn’t matter that you go to the Subtle Region, have visions and see the four-armed one there. You have (already seen) it in (the) pictures (Brahma Baba had made), haven’t you? Hence it has sat in the intellect. So, one will certainly have the visions. But there is nothing like this(in reality).” [Mu 12.05.69]

“The Subtle Region has to be created here(on earth, via our powerful soul conscious stages).” [Mu 22.11.72]


Baba has also explained that the role of all the murtis(instruments), including Shankar, takes place here on earth...

"The subtle(soul conscious) Deities Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar have their temples in the physical world, because they come to play their part(role in a body) here(on earth)." [Mu 25.6.73]

"Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are His(Father Shiv's) children. All the children of the incorporeal Father(Shiv) are incorporeal souls. They come down here(on earth) and adopt (physical)bodies." [Mu 21.8.99]

"You children know that the one whose memorial is built(in Bhakti-marg) would definitely have come on this earth(in a physical body) at the Confluence Age." [Mu 05.09.05]


So the point is, that to take one Murli point out of context of the many that relate to the same issue, is likely to lead to wrong conclusions being drawn.

N.B. The sections of the Murli points in brackets, are interpretations based on Advance Knowledge.

Roy

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