BK concept of "Destruction"

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Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » 20 Aug 2006

Greetings!

I am amazed to the efforts you go through to get things your way ... I posted this “new topic” titled “spiritual knowledge is subtle knowledge” and ... now here it is, because I mentioned the word “destruction” in my post. OK. Let's play the game ... Let’s move on.

Your quote about a “real” scientist about paradoxes: “It's a chain of plausible physical arguments that lead to an unphysical conclusion.”

Is the “unphysical” in the realm of science? This is a subtle response to your question, of course.

As far as the “So where do Brahma Baba and Shiva Baba and their teachings fit within this model [of one way being right]?”

I recall one sister in charge mentioned to me the story, of 2 bothers that needed to go some place. They asked Baba for permission to eat lokik food. Baba gave permission to one of them but not the other. An accurate response according to their sanskars and role. Others, in similar situation probably would have given the same answer to both to be “fair” however, our perception of fairness unless based on spirituality is not “fair” at all. Why? Because we have different capacities. We are numberwise. Therefore, Baba’s teachings clearly fit in this “model” as you call it. :D

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Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Aug 2006

avyakt7 wrote:Therefore, Baba’s teachings clearly fit in this “model” as you call it. :D
The obvious question - which underlines a weakness in BKWSU conception - is "which Baba?" *. That was not a BKWSU teaching, it was merely incidental personal advice.

For goodness sake, we are not talking about minor subjective incidents such as one BKs lunch, so please don't. We were discussion Shiva's major objective teachings such as "Destruction". A destruction that you yourself reference in the websites above and The Babas in a recent Murli.
  • • So what is Shiva's current position regarding Destruction and the nuclear war between Russia and America?
    • What is the BKWSU teaching now?
Why cannot you BKs, just be honest and straightforward? And if your write, "This is not the realm of science either. So there is no 'scientific proof' here. [click for link]", why all the scientific befuddlement?

* The answer I think most would agree to was that it was only Dada Lekhraj/Brahma Baba speaking.

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Post by john » 22 Aug 2006

Not sure if this is any use ; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5274040.stm

Plus it does seem a little odd that avyakt7 cannot just answer the question of destruction with regards to up to date BK teachings.

Seems simple answer really?

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as the beginning, so would be the end

Post by arjun » 24 Aug 2006

Om Shanti. BKs may or may not answer our questions, but I have found a recent revised Sakar Murli published by the BKs which deals with some interesting aspects of knowledge including destruction to some extent. The English translation has been rendered by the PBKs. The Murli point is as follows:

"Many say – Should we take care of the Yagya or the family? Baba says – You take very good care of your family. It is good that you are poor now. Had you been prosperous, you would not have been able to obtain complete inheritance from the Father. Sanyasis (monks) would not say like this. They take money and establish their estates (jagir). Will ShivBaba establish an estate? You children have constructed all these buildings, etc. for yourself. This is not anybody's estate (jaagir). This is temporary because children have to come here and stay in the end. Our memorial is also here. So (children) would come here and take rest in the end. Those who are yogyukta (i.e. those who remain immersed in Baba's remembrance) would run to meet Father. They would receive the help also. A lot of help is received from Father. You have to sit here and witness destruction. Just as Baba has entertained you children in the beginning; He would start entertaining you once again in the end. He would shower a lot of love. (Children would feel) as if they are sitting in heaven. They would keep coming very close.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.06.06, pg.3 published by BKs and narrrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba)

The buildings mentioned in the Murli point above refer to the BK buildings at Mount Abu (Madhuban) where all the Brahmin children are supposed to gather in the end when the destruction would take place. As regards other places Baba has said in other Murlis that you keep hiring accomodation for centers on rent and do Godly service. Baba has said to the extent that even a one room set would be sufficient. One could cook, sleep, and organize classes in the same room.

But contrary to the directions given by Baba in other Murlis, BKs have been acquiring properties worth millions of dollars throughout the world. This only goes to show that BKs no longer believe in the concept of destruction although they announce to the world that destruction is staring at your face.

As per the advance knowledge being narrated to the PBKs by ShivBaba - nearly four and a half lakh souls would gather at Mount Abu at the time of destruction. They would be entertained by ShivBaba. The granite rocks of Mt. Abu are so strong that they would survive the general destruction that would be taking place throughout the world and act as a safe haven for these four and a half lakh souls. But after the final destruction through atomic bombs and other natural calamities, even these mountains of Mount Abu would be destroyed to give way to the pure Golden Aged world.

Another aspect of the above Murli point is that Baba is telling that just as Baba has entertained you children in the beginning, He would start entertaining you once again in the end. He would shower a lot of love. In the beginning of the Yagya, aloukik mother and Father were present in the form of Brahma Baba and Mama Saraswati to entertain the children. So, where are the parents in the BK Brahmin family now?

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by sparkal » 24 Aug 2006

In the last/this season's Murli's it is said that, "when it happens, it will happen fast". What will happen quick?

Most will assume it is Destruction, and they may be correct, but there may be more to this than meets the eye. Or am I looking for something which is not there? :roll:

Fear will not be of any help, as we know. Faith, in the intellect.

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Post by arjun » 25 Aug 2006

BK Sparkal wrote:In the last/this season's Murli's it is said that, "when it happens, it will happen fast". What will happen quick?
Om Shanti. Transformation of souls and destruction of the world - both would happen fast in the end. But those who get transformed on the basis of the circumstances would reap lesser benefits than those who change the course of time through their self transformation.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Original Murli quotes supporting Destruction

Post by fluffy bunny » 28 Aug 2006

Original Murli quotes and instructions supporting early predications of Destruction

" In 1966, under divine inspiration and guidance of Shiva Baba, the picture of Lakshmi and Narayan was produced with a Godly message inscribed for the future event. The Godly message foretold that in the coming 10 years (that is in 1976) Bharat [India] would become completely free from vices.

Brahma Baba, the Chariot of Shiva Baba, had so much of faith in this Godly message that he placed his signature on that picture. A declaration was made by the institution and sent out to the government of India and other dignitaries notifying them of the coming Destruction of the World and the establishment of Heaven.

Unfortunately Brahma Baba died on 18th January 1969 and did not see the practical fulfillment of this prophecy. Nonetheless throughout his channelled appearances through the medium of BK Gulzar, he has repeated reminded his children of this urgent matter."


Listed below are some of these sayings:

• Avyakt Murli 25/10/69 :

"The final Destruction of the whole World takes place within 6 years. Those who tell it to be 7 years have their position reduced."
  • (6 years from 25/10/69 comes to 1975/76)
• Avyakt Murli 05/11/70 :

"From this journey, it is 5 years for Destruction."
  • (5 years from 5/11/70 comes to 1975/76)
• Avyakt Murli 03/02/71 :

" Within 5 years, the whole work should be completed."
  • (5 years from 3/2/71 comes to 1975/76)
• Avyakt Murli 09/09/72 :

"Even those who are rich, even they live hardly for 3-4 years more."
  • (3-4 years will come to 1975/76)
• Avyakt Murli 04/02/74 :

"From 10 years (of the declaration), only 2 years are left. Soon Kaliyuga has come to an end. The Drama is certain."
  • (2 years will fall in 1976)
• Avyakt Murli 09/11/74 :

"Rest, 2 years is left over. Don't think that it will become 3 years. It may become one year but it can never become 3 years"
  • (2 years will come in 1976)
--------

Why is the BKWSU hiding these original Murlis?

Who or what is giving them the authority to edit out or change God and Brahma's teachings?

What does Destruction therefore mean and how is it to happpen?

Why was this hidden from me when I was a BK and never openly discussed by the BKWSU?

How could Brahma / Lekhraj Kirpalani so close to perfection AND even after his alleged perfection teach this stuff?


--------

Frankly, I do not want a PBK answer. The PBK has its own agenda. This is a BK forum, BK policy and I would like a BK to explain this. Thank you.

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Post by bansy » 28 Aug 2006

Yes, BKs should try to answer the above Qs from ex-l.

A senior representative from the BKWSU, BK Karuna, Global Chief of PR and MultiMedia, who has frequented this website, should be able to answer what happened to the BKs and BKWSU in 1976 ? Surely 800,000 or so current BK students deserve to know this imortant part of their Kalpa Tree, as there is really nothing to hide from your own family of spiritual brothers and sisters, is there ?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 29 Aug 2006

bansy wrote:A senior representative from the BKWSU, BK Karuna, Global Chief of PR and MultiMedia, who has frequented this website, should be able to answer what happened to the BKs and BKWSU in 1976? Surely 800,000 or so current BK students deserve to know this imortant part of their Kalpa Tree, as there is really nothing to hide from your own family of spiritual Brothers and Sisters, is there ?
BK Karuna recently said to the Moscow Times that the BKWSU stopped teaching the Nuclear War between Russia and America at the end of the Cold War, which was 1989 to 1991. These are quotes from Revised Sakar Murlis in the last few years;

During the Sakar Murli days, Shiva Baba / BapDada was just as uncompromsing, these quotes are from recent Sakar Murlis ;

• Revised Sakar Murli 06/08/2003
  • "The Father says: I come at the Confluence Age of every Cycle. I inspire the Destruction of the old world. "
• Revised Sakar Murli 23/01/03
  • "I inspire the destruction of all religions through Shankar".
• Revised Sakar Murli 03/05/04
  • "You children know that nothing is going to remain. Everything is going to be destroyed".
• Revised Sakar Murli 01/09/03
  • "You are becoming angels. You do not even feel sorrow about Destruction. They will all now die like a swarm of mosquitoes".
• Revised Sakar Murli 06/09/2003
  • "You children understand that the flames of Destruction emerged from this sacrificial fire of knowledge of Rudra. The Father has created this sacrificial fire for the flames of Destruction to emerge so that Bharat can become Heaven".
• Revised Sakar Murli 05/03/2004
  • "Destruction will take place through science. All the souls will shed their bodies and return home. Liberation is latent in this Destruction. For half a Cycle, everyone has been making effort for liberation. This will now happen through science and natural calamities which are called "Acts of God". It should be understood that this war is an instrument to make souls return to the Land of Liberation".
• Revised Sakar Murli 06/06/03
  • "In order to be able to watch the final scenes of Destruction, become a firm Brahmin and serviceable. After belonging to the Father, Do not defame Him".
• Revised Sakar Murli 07/02/03
  • "After this Destruction there will be your kingdom. Innumerable religions will be destroyed and the religion that has now disappeared will be established. That means the gates of Heaven will open through this great war. Who will pass through these gates? Those who are studying Raja Yoga".
A growing archive or Murlis are available here ; Murli Archive.

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Post by mitra » 29 Aug 2006

Regarding russia and america, in the 7 day course the national flag of these two countries are shown. It doesn't mean that only these two countries will be involved. It can mean other countries also following R's and A's policies and supporting them.

IBHS
MITRA :?

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Post by arjun » 29 Aug 2006

Dear Mitra Bhai,
Om Shanti and welcome to this forum.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by sparkal » 29 Aug 2006

The Shiva shuffle?

When we are in a constant state of bliss, we tend to dance around. It is us who don't get this simple concept and have baggage :x . Shiva is a real being, is there RIGHT NOW!, and likes to have fun, dancing in joy at meeting us is a real experience for that soul. A real soul with mind intellect personality. Dancing?, why should Shiva not like to get down and boogie a little bit? 8)

As for destructuion, it is the destruction of our weaknesses, and there will be destruction of a physical nature, so all are right in the way that, all are number one.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 29 Aug 2006

Mitra wrote:Regarding russia and america, in the 7 day course the national flag of these two countries are shown. It doesn't mean that only these two countries will be involved. It can mean other countries also following R's and A's policies and supporting them.
Thank you and bless your Mitra! An honest, easy Raja Yogi. Top marks. [Was that really so difficult guys?] Yes, and welcome to this forum. I promise you that I, personally, have no axe to grind with individual BKs, or even the whole of BK, where there is openness, honesty and straight-fowardness. With those virtues, I can even do with the love that is meant to be the fruit of a true Yogi. Whew ...

You are, of course, correct. " Two cats fight over the butter and a monkey steals it " was the usual reference. The actual image, signed off by Brahma under the inspiration of God is here ;

http://www.brahmakumaris.info/w/index.p ... ndtree.jpg - a click will get a bigger image.

Now, I apologize to Avyakt7 for being so dogmatic but I had to set a standard of acceptable openness and honest. Destruction is a difficult issue for BKs and I am entirely sympathetic to that. I am an old timer that lived under its dark shadow for years. It absolutely handicapped from developing myself. I might even still be a slave to the concept. Destruction rules not through fear but also futility but I appreciate some BKs must wish that it comes sooner rather than latter. Had I known when I had first been enrolled that it was all meant to have happened in 1976, that BapDada or Brahma at "perfection", had utterly believed it, it would have changed my perception of the organization altogether. I would say it really screwed me up and is used as a mechanism to encourage rank and file BKs to give up life and surrender everything to the BKWSU.

I am not a PBK but I find it interesting that they have their own interpretation of what that destruction was all about. Like, I guess many others on this forum, we have had to separate God, Raja Yoga, whatever from the BKWSU. I am sorry to dump this on you as a first reply Mitra but I have to think that the BKWSU has to kick out a lot of its infantilism and discuss this and others issue rationally.

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BK Concept of Destruction

Post by andrey » 29 Aug 2006

Dear Brother,

Let me first reply regarding the topic “BK concept of “Destruction”” from the BK part of the forum - that no one is to blame. Please, see things from their perspective too. These acts to me seem enacted not out of ill motive, not with the intention to muddy the water, but out of pure ignorance.

We are all ignorant until the knowledgeful one makes us knowledgful. I’m sure BK would explain what the Destruction in 1976 meant if they knew. I suppose how perplexed they should have been, especially those who are supposed to answer other people's questions. But this declaration has not been made by any human being. The One who has made the declaration should answer.

It's has been also a test of faith for the children. Those who have thought Brahma Baba to have spoken must have thought, - "Oh-ho, he (Brahma Baba) appears to be an ordinary human guru who speaks lies and passes away. Let us too speak the way we wish and claim a throne of a guru". There should have been such children also that had faith and did not shake, they will not shake in any situation.

About the other questions – it is mentioned in the Murlis that He comes once. It means in the form of the Father He comes once. In the form of ShivBaba He comes once. Through Brahma only the role of Mother is played. No one says ShivMama.

He does not enter a virgin, there is nothing said about a mother. A mother cannot possibly be a virgin. “Mother” is also broad term.

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Post by bansy » 29 Aug 2006

Hi Mitra,
Welcome the the forum.
Thanks for an interesting insight.

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