BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Lekhraj Kirpalani)

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BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Lekhraj Kirpalani)

Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Sep 2012

Who is it that sets the rules of what is right or not to ask BapDada ...
mbbhat wrote:It is drama!

So- I should say- once gain that such questions who ask are, their understanding capacity is really less.
*Again*, you are attempting to provoke by insulting my mental or rather 'conforming' capacity. Please stop. It is not divine behavior.


There is no such thing as "Drama". Drama *does* not do anything. It does not order, it does not act, it does not think, it does not decide ... you should ask yourself what exactly is meant by the BKs' use of the word "Drama". Drama does not *do*, it merely *is*. Even according to the BKs' knowledge, what *does* ... what creates and effects reality around us ... are souls.

According to the BKs' knowledge, remove the souls and all you have is empty, inert dust (of course, according to scientific knowledge, evolution would carry on without human beings just as it carried on for 100s of millions of years *before* human beings evolved).

Who is it that censors what is right or not to ask BapDada, are the inner circle of elite BKs. We could name them exactly by name, and we can go right back to the 1970s to document how the censorship, and their strange monopoly on BapDada, has grown. I mean, if he is the "Ocean of Knowledge", all pure and wise and not bound by tiredness and so on, would not it be a good thing to put his intellect to new things and better purposes?

Are his "rallying of the troops" lectures *really* that wonderful and inspired? They are pretty shallow and repetitive. I am sure "god" must be capable of better.


I apologise for correcting your English again but you are incorrect to use the "understand" too. When the BKs use the word "understand", what they really mean is "conform to what we are told to think".

It is not even a question of "agree with what the BKWSU teaches to think" ... it is "to rigidly and unerringly conform" (and become stupid) which is why when a student like Virendra Dev Dixit or others come along who do ask why and ask for explanations for the inconsistencies and contradictions within Gyan, they respond by pushing them out and banishing them, like some medieval religion rather than a true university.

A true university would encourage Advance Research.


Yes, you are correct. My "conforming capacity" is less, however, my questioning capacity ... which is the opposite and I argue more virtuous and valuable ... is not great but good.

I appreciate it is the BKs' manner not to ask, not to think and not to ask why, e.g. according to them "3 dots" sums up entire existence, and you should consider why. What is being achieved by such simplification?

There is very little to grasp or understand about BK philosophy. It is designed to be so simple a child or uneducated person can use it, and it is designed to stop thoughts, to stop individuals thinking, to make them buddhus. That is the goal of it.

Drama does not do, it does not dictate. The use of the word Drama and the concept of "fixed in Drama" is just a shorthand, not real and raises the problem of predetermination versus freewill within the BK philosophy again. On one hand they say, "everything is fixed in Drama" (pre-determined), on the other hand they say, "everything depends on efforts" (free will). It is a very old philosophical problem known as the paradox of free will, or theological fatalism.

Actually, "nothing is fixed in Drama". "Fixed in Drama" is not a true statement, it is just a yukti to stop people worrying or asking too many, possibly unanswerable questions. It is basically a polite way of telling people to shut up, or shut their mind up.

"Why ... why ... why... ?" Answer, "... fixed in Drama".

So tell us, what is your understanding capacity of "Drama", mbbhat?

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Sep 2012

One question related to Drama is, "does matter actually exist, e.g. does it have its own separate existence?"

Is matter real, or is "Drama" merely the interplay of minds?

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by arjun » 03 Sep 2012

fluffy-bunny wrote:Who is it that censors what is right or not to ask BapDada, are the inner circle of elite BKs.
Perhaps it is the fear of being reprimanded by BapDada for their follies that makes the higher-ups of of BKWSU to censor who talks what with BapDada or even who meets BapDada and who doesn't.
One question related to Drama is, "does matter actually exist, e.g. does it have its own separate existence?"

Is matter real, or is "Drama" merely the interplay of minds?
Drama does not mean that you make it an excuse for all your mistakes. Baba said that drama is only whatever that has passed, whatever was not in your hands to control. But if any mistakes are being committed knowingly, deliberately, then the word drama cannot be used as an excuse.

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Sep 2012

arjun wrote:Drama does not mean that you make it an excuse for all your mistakes. Baba said that drama is only whatever that has passed, whatever was not in your hands to control. But if any mistakes are being committed knowingly, deliberately, then the word drama cannot be used as an excuse.
Yes, that is how I understood the term to be used. One cannot say, "Drama made me do it". *You* did ... you chose to do it.
Mbbhat wrote:Because according to BK philosophy, God is bound in Drama and Drama is the highest powerful one. Unless we understand Drama, we cannot understand God also.
Now, BK Mbbhat, do you really believe "Mr Drama" tells the Seniors who can meet BapDada and who cannot, who can ask what questions and so on?

You seem to belong to the "predestination" school of thought which believes everything, even into the future, is already predestined and that you, the Seniors and so on, have no freewill to make things different or better. Or not do wrong.

Would you care to further explain what you mean?

Putting Drama first makes me think that you are not in fact a Theist ... but, in essence, a Dramatist.

Sincere question ... how does Drama control?

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by mbbhat » 09 Sep 2012

sincere question.... How does drama control?
Reply is given in the original topic.

http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=9&t= ... 588#p42588

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by mbbhat » 10 Sep 2012

Interesting thing -:-

FB soul writes as follow
There is no such thing as "Drama".
and also says-
You cannot suggest the *entire* PBK philosophy is "proved wrong" just because they got one date wrong
[Note that- Both BK and PBK philosophy depend on drama].

Great attitude of the truth seeker!

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Sep 2012

mbbhat wrote:Interesting thing -:-

FB soul writes as follow ... "There is no such thing as "Drama"."

Great attitude of the truth seeker!
False semantics (word play).

You said "Drama" determines the entrance of BapDada, Prakashmani etc.

I said, "there is no such 'thing' as Drama" to do anything.

It is a correct statement as others have shown. "Drama" does not 'do', "Drama" is 'everything' that has happened.

Now, if I were you, I would say this is evidence of "low understanding" ... but such a suggestion is impolite and hurtful so won't. Perhaps you need to study the Advance Course to understand BK terminology better?

I think many BKs do believe that Drama does things and use it as an excuse for all sorts of weaknesses and nonsense. Not all BKs are that enlightened. However, I think if you ask, you will find this explanation above and what Arjun has said to you, is correct.

According to BK philosophy, "Drama" is not a thing, an active component or actor, it is 'everything'. You might have some Bhakti mixed in with your Gyan there. It is a common problem with BKism.

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by mbbhat » 10 Sep 2012

What I said was even PBKs believe ShivBaba is bound in drama as BKs believe. ShivBaba cannot do or will not do anything if such act or role is not in drama.

If any PBK says the above is incorrect, then I will take back my words.

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Sep 2012

But nothing exists to "bind" or control. Drama is just everything that happened, as has been explained to you. The present and future are unwritten and are according to our free will.

If Shiva exists, whatever he may be, does he have free will and interpretation abilities ... we should experiment and see.

I understand Shiva said his entrance was determined by "the Drama" ... just what specific event or influence he did not say. I do not remember ever hearing him say that his every word and every breath is determined by some outside or material influence.

That would make him an inert puppet.

Even from a BK point of view, I think you misunderstand how the concept and yukti of "Drama" is intended to be used and are falling back into a Bhakti like conception of "preordination" or "predestination" ... the belief that everything is proscribed to happen before it actually does.

That is incorrect. Nothing is written until it is written, even from a scientific point of view. We can predict certain events as sure in the large scale because of existing momentum, e.g. rotation of planets, but not at a human level or below where it all become highly random.

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by mbbhat » 11 Sep 2012

If Shiva exists, whatever he may be, does he have free will and interpretation abilities ... we should experiment and see.
You may do. I have no objection.

but god will not do experiment, since he knows fully and I should then follow his directions first before doing any experiment.

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by arjun » 12 Sep 2012

Om Shanti. Although it is written in the Murlis that ShivBaba is also bound by drama, but that does not give a license to the BKs to deny Murlis to those who wish to read Murlis.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by mbbhat » 12 Sep 2012

Om Shanti. Although it is written in the Murlis that ShivBaba is also bound by drama, but that does not give a license to the BKs to deny Murlis to those who wish to read Murlis.
It neither gives license to complain.

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Re: BK Mbbhat's views on "Drama" and controlling Bap-Dada (Le

Post by arjun » 13 Sep 2012

mbbhat Bhai is free to do as he wishes.

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