Marrying types

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Marrying types

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jun 2013

A Facebook page has started for BKs interested in matrimony ... marriage ... and, to be honest, I think it is a good thing ... because it is at least open and honest.

I remember in the Murlis there being a quote that "it's better to get married than burn with lust", or something similar.

At the same time, I have to admit that I am a little bit shocked to discover that many leading, active, influential BKs or center-in-charges, have married off to other BKs within the Western BKWSU. It's one thing starting up business with each other, it's another getting married *AND* starting up businesses with each other ... and it's surprising to find them welcomes and accommodated by the leadership ... even literally living around their retreat center.

Of course, the way I look at it is that the BKWSU has come to accept them purely for the benefits they bring them. For me, I can see how 50% of someone is better than 0% of someone. Even 30, 20 or 10% is ... but I cannot see anywhere in the Knowledge or Shrimat where this fits in. What on earth is going on? The Knowledge itself if very clear, and condemnatory of forming relationships with other BKs, never mind sexual ones, and use the BKWSU/PBIVV as a business network ... and yet these people are celebrated and promoted by the BKs. To me, that seems like a complete inversion of BKism.

And the amazing thing is, some of them still call themselves BKs. Can this be? In the old days, they would have been called traitors and much worse. Of course, the people are partnering off with are all quite attractive and worldly rather than obviously spiritually, so they would appear to body-consciously orientated relationships.

I understand the PBKs view, which says the BKs must decline during the Confluence Age, but that is not the BK view, which is that they ascend.

I am concerned also that it is not a 'one rule for all' option and all of the girls in India, from whom they have taken their dowries, are essentially enslaved to the organization and not offered the same freedom (I believe that the BKs should only hold their dowries in trust and give them back in their choose to leave).

Is it then preferential treatment for the Whites?
Is it that accepting it is the only way the BK leaders think they can keep ahold of useful individuals?

If anyone can explain what it going on to me, and how things are in India, I would be grateful.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by arjun » 12 Jun 2013

fluffy-bunny,
As you said, from an ex-BKs' point of view this trend is positive, but from a PBK or BKs' point of view this is not good. But BKs have been doing this right from the times of Brahma Baba, the only thing is that the frequency has increased post-1969, especially post 1990s. West is not an exception. Marriages are taking place in large numbers among BKs - Amongst students and also between teachers and students. In some cases they leave the BKWSU permanently and in some cases they return after some days/months/years.

I have been a PBK for almost two decades and have observed that ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has never permitted either marriages or building houses (as directed in the Sakar Murlis). And those who get married on their own are generally not allowed back and even if they are allowed back into the centers (mini-Madhubans) it is after a very long period of attending classes in the Gitapathshalas (classes run in PBK households), undergoing bhatti and giving their potamail and letter of faith. The latter cases are very rare because normally after marriage both partners do not agree to doing bhatti. So, one partner continues to attend the classes at Gitapathshalas without getting a chance to enter the mainstream (mini-Madhubans).

OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Marrying types

Post by arjun » 12 Jun 2013

1. "Baba kahtey hain koi galaa bhi kaat dey toh bhi apavitra nahee ban-na hai. Baba say poochtey hain ki is haalat may kya karoon? Toh Baba samajh jaatey hain ki sahan nahee kar saktey hain. Toh Baba kahtey hain jaakar patit bano. Yah toh tumhaarey oopar hai. Vah toh karkey is ek janma liye maar dengey, tum toh 21 janmon ke liye anpa katal kartee ho. Chaltey-chaltey Maya jor say thappar maar deti hai. Boxing hai na. Ek hee ghoosey say ekdam giraa deti hai. 15-20 varsh kay, shuru say aaye huay bhi aisey hain jo ekdam chodkar chaley jaatey hain."(Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 01.09.07, pg 3)

"Baba says – even if anyone slits your throat, you should not become impure. (Children) ask Baba –what should I do in this circumstance? Then Baba understands that he/she cannot tolerate. So, Baba says – go and become sinful. This depends on you. He may kill you for this one birth, (but) you are killing yourself for 21 births. While treading (the path of knowledge) Maya slaps forcefully. It is a boxing, isn’t it? She makes one fall completely in a single punch. Those (who have been following the path of knowledge) since 15-20 years, since the beginning are also such that they suddenly leave and go away."(Revised Sakar Murli dated 01.09.07, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba, translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

11.
" Aajkal naatak dekhney toh bahut jaatey hain. Patit ban-na yah gandagi hai na. Sab patit hain. Paavan ban fir patit ban padtey hain. Baba kahtey hain kaalaa muh kar diya. Aisey toh bahut hotey hain. Baba toh samajh jaatey hain ki inmay kya taakat hai – Maya par jeet paaney kee. Baba say poochtey hain shaadi karoon? Baba toh samajh jaatey hain ki inki dil hai. Baba kahengey maalik ho – chaahey jahanum may jaao, chaahey ksheer saagar may jaao. Manzil bahut badi hai. Kaam vikaar koi kam thodey hee hai. Bahut mushkil hai. Sanyasi toh gharbaar chod jaatey hain. Tumko toh grihasth vyavhaar may rahtey Baap say Yoga lagaakar poora varsa lena hai.” (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 07.09.07, pg 3)

"Now-a-days many people go to see plays (dramas). Becoming sinful is like dirt, isn’t it? Everyone is sinful. They become sinful after becoming pure. Baba says you have blackened your face. There are many like this. Baba understands the extent of power they possess to gain victory over Maya. They ask Baba, should I get married? Baba understands that he is interested (in getting married). Baba will say – you are the master (of yourself) – you may go to hell or you may go to the ocean of milk (ksheersagar, believed to be the abode of Vishnu). The goal is very high. Sex-lust is no less. It is very difficult. Sanyasis (monks/renunciates) renounce the household. You have to obtain the complete inheritance while living in household and by remembering the Father."(Revised Sakar Murli dated 07.09.07, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba, translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

129. "Baap kahtey hain – Mujhey kitnee mehnat karnee padtee hai. Kitnaa ona rahtaa hai, kahaan koi bachchiyaan gundon kay haath may na aa jaayein. Duniya bahut gandi hai. Centers par gandey log aa jaatey hain. Naam roop my fans padtey hain. Yagya may anek prakaar ke vighna bhi padtey hain. Maya bhi vighna daaltee hai. Fir bahut ghutkaa khaatey hain. Fir bhi Baap ko Yaad karnaa padey. Yuddh ke maidaan may khadey hokar ladnaa hai. Darnaa nahee hai. Faarkati bahut dey detey hain. Kitney varsh rah paalnaa lee, fir shaadi kar kahaan na kahaan chaley gaye. Aashcharyavat bhaaganti ho jaatey fir bhi drama kee bhaavi kah chup ho jaatey hain. Service may rahney vaalon ko khushi bahut jaastee rahtee hai." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 18.12.07, pg 4)

“The Father says – I have to make so many efforts. I remain worried, the daughters should not get into the hands of hooligans. The world is very dirty. Dirty people come to the centers. They get entangled in name and form. Many kinds of obstacles are also created in the Yagya. Maya also creates obstacles. Then they suffer defeat. Even then one has to remember the Father. One must stand firm in the warfield and fight. One should not fear. Many give divorce. They obtained sustenance for so many years; then they got married and went somewhere or the other. They surprisingly run away. Even then one becomes silent by calling it a role fixed in the drama. Those who keep doing service remain very happy." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 18.12.07, pg 4 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)


1130. “There is only one Father of the souls. You even say through your mouth – we all are brothers. We are children of one Father and we all are brothers. Then, when the Father comes in the body of Prajapita Brahma you have to become brothers and sisters. The mouth born progeny of Prajapita Brahma are brothers and sisters, aren’t they? A brother can never marry his sister. So, these all are Prajapita Brahmakumar-kumaris. So, by considering yourself to be brothers and sisters, you become lovely children of the Father and members of Godly community. You will say that we are members of a community established directly by God. God Baba is teaching us everything. He has not learnt from anyone. He is always perfect.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 26.05.09, pg 1 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

1312. “Those who are to go to heaven do not indulge in lust. The devotees do not indulge in lust to that extent. Sanyasis, too, do not ask others to become pure because they themselves solemnize marriages. They tell the householders – You may indulge in lust once in a month. They don’t tell the Brahmacharis (celibates) not to marry. Some of you marry through Gandharvi marriage, yet, they end the drama (of purity) the very next day. Maya pulls a lot. Yet, the efforts to become pure are made at this time only; then it is fruits. There is no kingdom of Ravan at all there. There are no criminal thoughts at all. Ravan makes you criminal. ShivBaba makes you civil. You should remember this as well.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 22.07.09, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

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Re: Marrying types

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jun 2013

arjun wrote:As you said, from an ex-BKs' point of view this trend is positive, but from a PBK or BKs' point of view this is not good.
"Positive" only to the degree it is being done honestly, rather than secretively ... but I am really surprised to see it with my own eyes and other BKs be OK with it. Especially the BKWSU allowing such couples to use and stay in their properties. It's wrong that individuals absolutely breaking the rules should benefit from that which has been built up by those following them.

When I was a BK, I was naive to all this. I cannot understand how someone can call themselves a BK whilst doing so. If you were a BK, you would have to have left to do so, and it would a great sin which you would have had to confess and a shame/embarrassment.

In short, it was announcing your failure. Whatever happened to considering the purity of vibrations?

Can they still call themselves BKs?

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Re: Marrying types

Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Jun 2013

More news from the West ... I heard about more 'visa marriages' turning into business partners between BKs right up to what one might consider the inner circle of the Western BKWSU (not necessary 'inner' according spiritual values, but certainly money-wise).
“The Father says – The world is very dirty. Dirty people come to the centers. They get entangled in name and form. Many kinds of obstacles are also created in the Yagya. Maya also creates obstacles. Then they suffer defeat.

Many give divorce. They obtained sustenance for so many years; then they got married and went somewhere or the other. They surprisingly run away.

Revised Sakar Murli dated 18.12.07
This is very interesting.

There are few Western BKs who have been quite so influential within the Brahma Kumari movement as Brian Bacon. It was he that developed the Self Management Leadership programmes and enabled a far deeper penetration of the corporate world for the BKs and even countries like Pakistan where they cannot use the Hindu elements. Having studied the earlier phases of it, I would say it was clearly related or developed from fairly standard BK service models and incorporated BK teachings.

As you may know, he then developed it into personal business using a network of elite BKs all around the world. Many other BKs were inspire to follow them and try and become "corporate coaches" or management trainers but not very many were successful.

Well, I remember Brian's story ... see Murli quote above ... he landed on the BKs lap after he and his old life fell apart. He left a wife and then divorced her. Through the BKs he gained contacts such as the President of Mexico Vicente Fox and many bug business people.

Then he left and marry a very attractive, serviceable Brahma Kumaris sister, I believe an ex-center in charge.

Amazing ... I think that Murlis quote must be about him but they have not run away. Recently they moved back to live on the estate where the BKs' Global Retreat is.
Brian Bacon wrote:""The problem was that up until that time, my relationship with him had been through the Brahma Kumaris; but now he (*) was President, and he wanted to use...not only Self Management Leadership, but the whole strategic focusing thing (**), and his party was the center-right, Catholic party. They're sufficiently fundamentalist for them to have a fit about Brahma Kumaris" "So we went there, but it had to be done within the context of a commercial enterprise. So, we set up a branch of a consulting company there.

rmn

Re: Marrying types

Post by rmn » 19 Jun 2013

MY DEAR SOUL BROTHERS( BROTHERS AND SISTERS), IT IS CONFIRMED THAT THE SECRETARY OF ANTI OM MANDLI IS SEVAK Ram, AND WHEN PBKs ASKED Virendra Dev Dixit HE CONFIRMED THAT HE WAS NOT A SEVAK Ram. THIS POINT WAS NOT BEING ACCEPTED/DIGESTED BY PBKs. BUT IT IS TRUE NOW ALL PBKs ARE WORRYING A LOT.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by fluffy bunny » 19 Jun 2013

What on earth has that got to do with this topic? Sevak Ram was a name or title the BKs used. I believe they have now discovered the actual name and are currently seeking further confirmation.

rmn

Re: Marrying types

Post by rmn » 20 Jun 2013

My dear fluffy and bunny, Pl do not tell the things which u do not know or not understood perfectly, as per AIVV the 7 days courses the main part of sevak Ram was taught by PBKs, simple writting on forum something which u do not know leads to foolishness. Pl do not repeat in future be a perfect soul and discuss in a polit manner.
thanx
rmn

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Re: Marrying types

Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Jun 2013

This topic is about BKs and matrimony.

Please keep 'on topic'. If you want to discuss a different topic, start a new one or add to an existing one on that topic.

It is a matter of good etiquette (forum manners).

rmn

Re: Marrying types

Post by rmn » 20 Jun 2013

OK THANX MR FLUFFY AND BUNNY.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Jun 2013

Interesting comparison to the Western BKs who are marrying each other in contradiction of the Shrimat in the Murlis ... my guess this kumari will be hailed as a hero at her local center and paraded around to encourage other young girls ... but is it right? I appreciate she might not fancy the man her parents want her to marry, but is she really old enough to make such lifetime decisions? Did the BKs encourage her with stories of sex being like jumping off a 5 storey building?
टावर पर चढ़ युवती बोली-नहीं करनी शादी

बीकानेर । मांगे नहीं मानने पर किसी युवक का टावर पर चढ़ना तो अब आम हो चला है लेकिन बुधवार को बीकानेर में एक युवती अपनी शादी रूकवाने के लिए रानीसर बास में टावर पर चढ़ गई। पुलिस ने जैसे-तैसे उसे नीचे उतारा। युवती ऊषा ने बताया कि घर वाले उसकी शादी करना चाहते हैं और वह ब्रह्मकुमारी आश्रम में सेवा करना चाहती है। पुलिस ने उसे आत्महत्या के प्रयास के मामले में गिरफ्तार कर लिया।

हुआ यंू कि ऊषा रानीसर बास में अपने घर के पास एक बाड़े में लगे मोबाइल टावर पर सुबह करीब ग्यारह बजे चढ़ने लगी। काफी ऊंचाई तक पहुंचने पर कुछ लोगों की नजर उस पर पड़ी तो परिजनों को सूचना दी। सदर पुलिस भी मौके पर पहुंच गई। पुलिस ने उसे समझा बुझाकर उतारा। पन्द्रह- बीस मिनट चले इस घटनाक्रम के दौरान भीड़ एकत्र हो गई।

पुलिस की पूछताछ में युवती ने बताया कि आठ अप्रेल को उसका विवाह सूरतगढ़ के एक लड़के से तय है। वह विवाह करने के बजाय ब्रह्मकुमारी आश्रम में सेवा कार्यो से जुड़ना चाहती है। बुधवार को ही विवाह की रस्में शुरू होनी थी। इससे पहले वह घर से निकल गई।

उसके पिता जगदीश प्रसाद ने बताया कि ऊषा ने पहले कभी अविवाहित रहने की इच्छा नहीं जताई। पिछले दिनों विवाह कार्यक्रम तय हुआ तब भी उसने इनकार नहीं किया। उसके टावर पर चढ़ने पर ही पता चला कि वह विवाह के खिलाफ है।
High drama as Bikaner girl climbs cellphone tower in protest
TNN Apr 7, 2011, 12.01am IST

JAIPUR: In reel life Veeru climbed a water tank to get married to Basanti, but in real life incident in Bikaner, a young girl climbed up a cellphone tower not to get married.

The girl, Usha Bala, 22, wanted to pursue higher studies and become a member of the Prajapita Brahma Kumari ashram at Mt Abu. Her parents wanted to get her married soon and got her engaged almost three months back.

Bala, however, was not keen with the marriage and on Wednesday noon protested against the decision of her parents by climbing the tower from where she threatened to jump, if they do not revert their decision.

Soon after, her family members and senior police officers, rushed to the spot and tried to convince her not to take the extreme step.

Bala told a crowd of over 500 people that she will come down only if her parents cancel her marriage, a senior police officer in Bikaner said.

"From her Father to neighbours, everyone tried to convince her to come down from the tower, but the girl was adamant. Since Rajasthan had witnessed the death of a young boy in Sawai Madhopur, we were trying to deal it very sensibly and we continuously spoke to her over the mobile phone," a senior police officer said.

"It was a 60 feet tower and she kept threatening that she will jump off the tower if her parents do not agree to her demands. Later, she requested us to call her grandfather on his cellphone. Only after her grandfather assured her that nobody in the family will get her married against her will, she came down," the officer added.

After the one hour-long high drama, Bala was arrested and later released.

"We immediately took her in custody and booked the girl for suicide bid. She was later released on bail," police said.

Talking to reporters, Bala said she will not hesitate to take this step if her family talks about her marriage again.

"Nobody can compel me to get married even if they are my parents," she said.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by arjun » 22 Jun 2013

fluffy-bunny wrote:Interesting comparison to the Western BKs who are marrying each other in contradiction of the Shrimat in the Murlis ... my guess this Kumari will be hailed as a hero at her local center and paraded around to encourage other young girls ... but is it right? I appreciate she might not fancy the man her parents want her to marry, but is she really old enough to make such lifetime decisions? Did the BKs encourage her with stories of sex being like jumping off a 5 storey building?
Although it is correct that it is said in the Murlis that indulging in sex is like falling from a multistoried buiding, but it has not been said anywhere that you should threaten to jump from a building if you are being married forcibly. If someone is forcing you, you can simply go to a police station and lodge a complaint if you are a major. Nobody in India can force a major girl to marry against her wishes, whether she is a BK or not.

“Now you Brahmins are making efforts. Then you have to get threaded in the rosary of Rudra. That is why make such efforts that you ascend the throne. Leave the matters which cause sorrows to anyone. The Father is remover of sorrows and giver of happiness. If children give sorrows then who will think that these are the children of God? One should not perform sinful actions or commit suicide, tell lies or commit sins. If one gets defeated then one should seek pardon. Even in Bhakti if one commits any mistake then they repent. This is a path of knowledge; one should never cause sorrows to anybody’s heart. The drops/splashes of knowledge cause coolness; here you children have come to study. One needs to have good manners in studies. This is also a study." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 10.11.07, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

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Re: Marrying types

Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Jun 2013

It's amazing ... if only the BKs would study the Murlis more. I would say in the West, BKism has become its marketing. It hardly refers to the core anymore and is all about the external ... whereas in India it has apparently become about land grabbing. We had another report of the BKs chasing a non-BK wealthy person with a lot of land telling them if they donated it to the BKs they promised him a place in heaven. Not his family though!

'Arjun the Master Murli librarian' to the rescue yet again. We still need the complete collection of Murlis as an online searchable database to help them and the rest of us.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Jun 2013

So far it is strange ...

Other BKs are congratulating them on getting married and defending them. No questions asked. No Murli points referred to.

But it seems there is a trend of visa marriages and even visa plus business marriages between some BK which the leadership are aware of but do or say nothing.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by arjun » 29 Jun 2013

I recently met a non-surrendered BK sister who recently got married to a non-BK. She said that when she went to her local BK center immediately after marriage, they prepared a cake and made them to cut it. This seems to be the trend now-a-days. Perhaps, they want to keep alive the source of income even if they are married.

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