The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Aug 2007

peter de wrote:What does 'despicable' mean?
Something like; "so worthless as to deserve contempt or scorn".

I never really thought about what John suggests but I have to agree. It is not just an issue of the BKWSU controlling access to the Murli but controlling access to WHICH re-edited and re-written Murli BKs can receive.

I certainly disagree that the leadership of the BKWSU can act like some medieval Vatican deciding who gets to what knowledge.

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Post by bansy » 01 Aug 2007

peter de wrote:I never felt it controversial that the Murlis are not published. Because for someone who is not properly introduced to this knowledge, reading a Murli can be very confusing and misinterpreted. For the same reason they send no Murli's by e-mail. It is to protect the ones who read it when not ready for it.
Hi peter de,

The issue is that Murlis are God's words, so why should there be the necessity for protection. That is a fear. Truth has no fear. If Murlis are the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then wouldn't you like to receive the entire 5 years worth of Murlis in one huge batch (the Murlis which you receive every day comes from a storage of 5 years Sakar Murlis which are revised daily and printed to be issued weekly to each centre worldwide. This issuing is done centrally from Madhuban and London for Hindi and English. Then local centres may further translate them in the local languages).

One credit to the PBKs (you'll get to learn about them in this website is that they are openly trying to unfold the Murlis, whilst the BKs pevent this. The PBKs interpret the Murli slightly differently, and it is possibly the PBKs which the BKs fear. However, the truth cannot be hidden.
So maybe I am more lucky then the one's here?
Seems you are. One hint, never throw or give any of them away. You may find them useful in your future.

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Post by john » 01 Aug 2007

peter de wrote: For the same reason they send no Murli's by e-mail. It is to protect the ones who read it when not ready for it.
I have heard they do send Murlis via email and Murlis are kept on the internet but password protected.

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alladin
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can I borrow th Murli, pls!?

Post by alladin » 02 Aug 2007

Hi! Sure things vary from one center to the other, according to whoever is in charge.

Some instruments are more "liberal" than others about Murlis and make some copies, especially of avyakts that are usualy sought for more often, lend them for students to re- read them, or for those who got in late or missed class. In some centers the Murli stays by the gaddhi, on a desk or somewhere accessible and visible to all. In other places, the kapo holds on to it very tight and hides it away; you have to beg in order to take a look.

What is interesting to me is, in fact, the reaction of unworthiness, unease and inferiority this triggers in students. There's a topic about the atmosphere in centers so, just briefly here, let me comment that some center-in-charges are over protective and possessive in regard to what is supposed to be "Baba's house". They can become ultra fanatic about who steps in the kitchen as well, who can touch what.

So, from vestals of the temple and subtle Guardian Angels, they take a step too much due to their "controlling trip" and turn into bulldogs. Not very subtle or royal! What a shame! And so much irreparable damage and pain is inflicted on others! Lastly, one reason for not lending Murlis too easily is not to encourage laziness because most people, if they could, would read Murli at their own convenience in their homes, and would be happily skip the hardship of getting up extra early to go to the center for class.

Here, again I am sorry, but it is mostly the teacher's incapability of making the atmosphere pleasant and amicable at the center because if students feel empowered and peaceful when they go there, by perceiving a clear benefit, they would overcome laziness and try to make it there at all cost. Not out of compulsion, wanting to impress the center-in-charge as "good boys", fear of being judged by being marked absent and consequently blacklisted. But out of love, for the self, for "God's versions" and the gathering of the spiritual family.

One dangerous tendency in the organisation, is that once you made it for the gaddhi, you will enjoy certain privileges, you will often be backed up by SS no matter how tyrannical you are, and will always put the blame on students if they disappear or on the "tough ground" if BKs do not emerge.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Aug 2007

Someone just pointed out that in my post above it looked as though I was supporting the opinions of NAMBLA. The truth is, that until this was pointed out and until I looked just now, I had no idea who or what "NAMBLA" was. I have no idea of the relevance of the latter part of Joel's post and was not referring to it.

For the record, I was sticking "on topic" and responding Joel's opinions on the Murlis and Lekhraj Kirpalani's rhetorical style alone. But, on principle, I do think that it should be possible to be explore every subject, including the most objectionable or unfashionable, especially if you don't practise, agree or condone them, from a spiritual or Gyani point of view.

As you might have noticed, I am not one for the 'thought police' or to be limited by what is 'politically correct'. To understand something, sometimes you actually have to think through the processes of how the perpetrators got to their conclusions and then acted a bit like a pathologist picks through a crime scene.
  • Back "on topic", peter de ... if your center-in-charge is happy to provide you with copies of the Murlis, would you be willing to provide us with copies here either scanned as a pdf or OCR-ed into text files? There are a record of some in the Encyclopedia area and in the download section. OCR text format would be best.
That would be very helpful. A searchable database of Murlis would be an excellent study aid as both the alternatives on this site show.

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Post by arjun » 21 Aug 2007

Om Shanti.

A few days ago, I along with one of my PBK friends met an educated but comparatively young BK (5 yrs old in Gyan). He did not know that we were PBKs. We discussed various aspects of knowledge. But when I touched the issue of editing/cutting of Murlis and the responsibility of Dadis in this matter, he immediately said that Dadis are no way responsible because it is BK Raju Bhai who does all this. When I asked him whether it is good to Copyright Godly versions, he said it is not good to do that, but admitted that this copyrighting of Godly versions would cause the degradation of the posts of whoever is responsible for it. However he said that Avyakt Vanis are freely available for anyone to buy. I haven't seen any BK center where Avyakt Vani books are sold freely to anyone who is interested to buy them. If the BKs are ready to sell Godly versions, why not publish them on the internet?

Thoughout the discussion, he was repeating a standard line that we should not waste time in questions and concentrate on remembering ShivBaba. However, he was a jovial and humble person.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by john » 21 Aug 2007

arjun wrote: But when I touched the issue of editing/cutting of Murlis and the responsibility of Dadis in this matter, he immediately said that Dadis are no way responsible because it is BK Raju Bhai who does all this.
Can we get RajuBhai on the forum to explain the editing of Murlis, or get a question to him?
However he said that Avyakt Vanis are freely available for anyone to buy. I haven't seen any BK center where Avyakt Vani books are sold freely to anyone who is interested to buy them.
I found Avyakt Vanis easy to get and was given copies in Madhuban. Now, the question is, why are Avyakt Vanis easy to get and Sakar Murli not, from the BKs?

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Post by arjun » 22 Aug 2007

John wrote:I found Avyakt Vanis easy to get and was given copies in Madhuban. Now, the question is, why are Avyakt Vanis easy to get and Sakar Murli not, from the BKs?
During my discussion with that brother I also asked him this question. I asked him why don't BKs upload all the Sakar Murlis on their website for BKs located in the remote corners of the world to read? He said if the BKs do that no BK would come to their centers to the daily class and read the Murlis at home. I said, just to force BKs to come to the centers, you cannot deny the access to Murlis to those BKs, who are thirsty for Murlis but are living in remote areas. He had no rational answer for this except giving an example that his BK teacher occasionally sends a Murli or letter to one of his BK friends working in a remote border area of India.
Can we get RajuBhai on the forum to explain the editing of Murlis, or get a question to him?
BKWSU might have given the responsibility of editing Murlis to Raju Bhai, but he remains in the backgroud. The public face of BKWSU is sisters like BK Jayanti, who does not wish to interact with interested souls on a public forum like this one. So, until Sister Jayanti does not say anything on this issue, Raju Bhai would continue to use his scissors.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by bkti-pit » 22 Aug 2007

At the main center where I stay now the Avyakt Murlis books are not even available. Whoever has any got them from Madhuban or elsewhere.

However, at the small center where I use to be they were in the public display and available for sale to anyone. Usually only people who already knew what they were would buy them but otherwise we would simply explain what they were and offer with it a glossary of the most common Hindi words.

It was another ball game for the Sakar Murlis. BKs living far away would get outdated Murlis only (Murlis from previous months). Regular morning students who would occasionally have to miss class for any reason could get a copy of the Murli that would be read that morning whilst local BKs not coming regularly to morning class (without a valid reason) wouldn't get anything.

I remember an occasional Murli student who was not BK but would enjoy the Murli very much when he came. He used to ask for a copy of the Murli he had just heard so he could revise it because he was not happy with his own notes. He was told that he could study the Murli at the center but could not get a copy to take with him. This was according to directions from the RCO.

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Post by alladin » 22 Aug 2007

According to the cycle they teach about, the mafia and its system should have learnt them from the BKs at the confluence every Kalpa. But more simply, it seems to me that the BKs emulate the mafia. They manage proficiently in most aspects, omerta is their best feature. Tight control over the circulation of info and material. Very stifling.I wonder , if caught, how many high ranks well informed members would speak under torture. Maybe all! :lol:
I liked Arjunbhais' post, it's all very true, unfortunately, we know what's going on!!
Arjun wrote:no BK would come to their centers to the daily class and read the Murlis at home. I said, just to force BKs to come to the centers, you cannot deny the access to Murlis to those BKs, who are thirsty for Murlis but are living in remote areas. He had no rational answer for this except giving an example that his
.
Seems that the negative system of not caring for, nor sustaining properly even students which are eager to get knowledge is widespread and adopted everywhere. It all has to do with the sisters-in-charge control trip. "We are holding the reins, you are inferior, have no rights and should beg all the time!".

What strikes me is the lack of humility, as Arj Bhai pointed, due to which sisters-in-charge cannot admit that students are not motivated to go to the centers. Therefore sisters-in-charge try to force them to do so in every possible way. Total blackmailing. Did not work on me, I tell you! The sister that tried that with me, gained my despise and lost my cooperation.

So, apart from the analogies with the mafia, what we all really would like, I think, is an attitude and atmosphere of Yoga and peace, first of all at centers, that we all would appreciate. That's rare to find. SS put maniacs, restlessly running around for service peaceles souls in charege. No one is allowed to complain. If we do, since only those in charge count and are listened to and take decisions. It's a schizofrenic vicious circle.

In the end it's very convenient blaming students for laziness and carelessness, rather than accepting the responsability to make centers more appealing (not in the sense of luxuries, please, I know this is the direction in which energy usually goes!!) through attractive activities, democratic sharing, even of Murli points and comments on them, good vibrations and respectful attitudes. After all, this is what Baba is asking all BKs to do, teachers in primis.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Aug 2007

alladin wrote:I wonder, if caught, how many high ranks well informed members would speak under torture.
The greatest torture would be sending them out to earn their own money ... I do not mean this facetiously. I think it would be a wonderful test of their theory and good service.

I can imagine Sudesh in a sweatshop making blue jeans, Jayanti on the front desk of a social welfare office, Mohini in a grocer shop ... living in rented accommodation. They would have less time to fiddle with the Murli and power politics about.

I am still not sure where this "submit to us and morning class or no Murlis" line comes from. I have never heard it in the Murlis themselves.

It suggests that there is some coercive, unwritten, set of rules applied to BKs that no one gets to hear about.

It is also enforced conditioning;
  • "Thou shalt come to the center and be condition by our center-in-charge or be eternally doomed to low status ..." (even if she is nuts at close to the point of nervous breakdown because she is the only one we can get to stick your center out).

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Post by mr green » 22 Aug 2007

ex-l wrote:It suggests that there is some coercive, unwritten, set of rules applied to BKs that no one gets to hear about.
There is and I have posted them at least twice somewhere on the forum.

(Sorry having a bad life).

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Post by peter de » 22 Aug 2007

Alladin, I am very sorry that you feel that way, with your teacher in charge, but you cannot generallies. My teacher is very strict concerning the rules, sometimes narrow minded, I think but not 'superior'. If any brahmin treats another soul inferior we have to pity him/her, cause he/she is under the influence of Maya, ego. If you conquer your own ego the situation will turn out right. After all that is Baba's knowledge and much more important and strong than a pile of Murlis that you may mis!

Democratic sharing ... If you want democracy forget the 84 births and keep your cycle in this age. Democracy is a system of the end of kali yug, not of samgam yug. Brahmins are trained for monarchy. You have to get used to it! It seemes that particulary you, are in a wonderful beneficial situation to train. Wah! Wah! However, it's a monarchy that when completion and perfection is reached it will be totally rightious. So don't worry now, because when you have learned to be complete humble yóu will be the king, not the egotripper - teacher. Not her role as a centre in charge now is important but her role of teaching you lessons of life.

I wish you Succes. Our role is always perfect. Drama is beneficial.

Om Shanti, Peter

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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Aug 2007

peter de wrote:If you want democracy forget the 84 births and keep your cycle in this age. Democracy is a system of the end of kali yug
Ummmn, did not democracy kick off around about 500 or 600 years before Christ with Solon and Cleisthenes in ancient Greece?

Are you arguing that the current oligarchy in some divine empowered to teach the rest of us humilty through abuses of power? Should one not "learn lessons" in monarchy by addressing and transforming abuse of power and failures in duty of care?

Surely, the question should be what does alladin mean by "democracy", which kind of democracy, and you by "monarchy"? (On one hand, tribal democracy existed long before Athens; and on the other, methink the good brother has forgotten the lesson of the Mahabharata ... on which side is one's "monarchy").

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Post by john » 22 Aug 2007

BKTi-Pit wrote: He was told that he could study the Murli at the center but could not get a copy to take with him. This was according to directions from the RCO.
Open your mind BKs for just one minute, just one.

That is pure madness, not being able to take a copy home to study. What are the most important things in BK life? Remembrance and study of Gyan.

Just think how mad it would sound if you were told you could only have remembrance at the centre.

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