Is Brahmakumaris.info an impartial website?

Mainly DEDICATED to Ex-BKs.
A neutral forum for congenial discussions and reservations related to the Godly Knowledge between ALL parties.
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Do you consider http://brahmakumaris.info to be impartial?

Yes, it is impartial.
9
32%
It is impartial as it is possible to be.
11
39%
It could be more impartial.
4
14%
No, it is not impartial at all.
4
14%
 
Total votes: 28

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mr green
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Post by mr green » 02 Dec 2006

I agree with bansy on the Murlis. If these are the words of the almighty authority, the all knowing supreme being, it seems in bad taste for people like Maureen (nice though she maybe) to be changing those words to something she feels is more accurate, I don't feel comfortable with that.

I have seen original scripts of the Murlis, they were handed round a class once and we were supposed to feel in awe for these scaggly bits of paper but they were on foolscap paper and easily 4 sides long. The originals were full of personal references and nearly all of these have been edited out now.

It does say in a Murli I remember, (I used to stay up all night studying them sometimes!) that you only need to read and understand one Murli to achieve perfection.

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john
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Post by john » 02 Dec 2006

Mr Green wrote:I agree with bansy on the Murlis, if these are the words of the almighty authority, the all knowing supreme being, it seems in bad taste for people like Maureen (nice though she maybe) to be changing those words to something she feels is more accurate, I don't feel comfortable with that
Is she crazy! Just a puppet I suppose.
I have seen original scripts of the Murlis, they were handed round a class once and we were supposed to feel in awe for these scaggly bits of paper, but they were on foolscap????? paper and easily 4 sides long, the originals were full of personal references and nearly all of these have been edited out now
Wow, I am in awe just hearing it. Were these original English ones or the absolute original Hindi versions? So the ones given out today are a fraction of the size of the original. What reasons/excuses were you given as to why they were being changed?

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mr green
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Post by mr green » 02 Dec 2006

They were original Hindi ones written up from the tapes by someone and were definitely old. They were/are in the possession of a centre in charge in this country.

One of the reasons given is that a lot of the personal references are just that, meaningless to everyone else. These were mostly edited out years and years ago. He used to speak to people by name and mention people by name in reference to what he was saying, so these bits probably could be edited out without losing meaning. I think they probably do try to give an accurate translation, but definitely they are edited.

I have recently found a stash of Sakar Murlis i did not know i still had. These are probably from 1998 or thereabouts. I also have a copy if the original correspondence course. The one Jagdish wrote I believe.

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sweetchill
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Post by sweetchill » 03 Dec 2006

Do you really believe this place is a genuine collaboration between ex BKs, PBKs and BKs?

You're deluding yourself if you do - IMHO.

Every post is about the BKs - mostly from ex BKs or PBKs - with a high proportion of the posts ridiculing and defaming the BKs.

Just how exactly is that constructive?

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Dec 2006

sweetchill wrote:Do you really believe this place is a genuine collaboration between ex BKs, PBKs and BKs?

You're deluding yourself
This is definitely a place of collaboration between ex-BKs and PBKs ... we have worked to dig out details of the history and Murlis that the BKWSU is working hard to bury. And in the past we have had some very solid contributions of spiritual advice from other BKs that we were happy for.

There seem to be a certain sort of BK though that only wants to make personal snipes, like yourself about "delusion ... delusion ... delusion".
  • The Om Delusionals ... is everybody Om Deluded?
But frankly, that freaky BK hypnotism stuff does not work on me and third parties will see it for what it is.

You have a choice. You could contribute news from this year's "New Season of Avyakt Murlis" - as per the topic - and we will appreciate and discuss them ... or you can chose to engage in trying to diminish the credibility of the site and other users. Much of the collaboration goes on unseen and unnoticed.

Where the collaboration is going on at a higher level is individuals working to expose what the BKWSU is trying to hide, being brave enough to speak out about abuses and their personal experiences, documenting it all for the public, in order that the BKWSU is brought to address issue that it needs to address. I am amazed by what I have learned since I have been on this forum.
  • • I mean, what do you think when you read that BKs in a number of different locations are kidnapping and beating up PBKs? I suppose that they are using UN-approved lathis ...
I really do not have a clue what the PBKs believe, or who Shiva is being channelled through now but I do believe that it is much more likely that Lekhraj Kirpalani is entering into Gulzar.
  • However, I know that physical abuse of that nature is wrong.

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pbktrinityshiva
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Post by pbktrinityshiva » 04 Dec 2006

sweetchilli,

I do not see whats so defamatory about those posts from the Murlis. If you think the explanation is wrong please provide your own explanation.

The Avyakt Murlis are the truth, yes? Then what is the meaning of these points?

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bansy
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Post by bansy » 04 Dec 2006

Every post is about the BKs - mostly from ex BKs or PBKs
As far as it has been understood, this forum has been open to all BKs and ex-BKs since the start, in fact to anybody with some sort of Raja Yoga (BK) connection. The PBKs came later. There are even Vishnu Party members who are members it seems but have remained quiet. BKs can post if they choose to, on the topics discussed and debated. People left the BKWSU because they did not understand many things. Possible BKs don't really care about these others to try to make them understand. However, I don't think this is true, as I know many good BKs. Can BKs discuss and explain the issues raised in this forum ? Yes they can. Do they want to ? Up to them. If you want to see more BKs, invite your BK friends or better still invite your Seniors. Squeal at your own BKWSU if they do not participate to support your view. IMHO.
Just how exactly is that constructive?
Ditto above.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 04 Dec 2006

Sweetchill wrote:Every post is about the BKs - mostly from ex BKs or PBKs - with a high proportion of the posts ridiculing and defaming the BKs.
Dear brother,
Om Shanti. This site is basically about giving information about the BKs to all those souls who would like to know about it. So, you should not be surprised if most of the posts are related to the BKs.

Secondly, it is wrong to say that a high proportion of the posts are ridiculing and defaming BKs. Most of the posts that discuss BK matters are related to the BK knowledge and the interpretation of the Murlis/Avyakt Vanis. In the PBK section we have quoted so many Murli points and asked questions based on the Murli points. So far nobody except 'BK Mitra' (one post) has attempted to reply to those querries. If you wish you can discuss those points.

As regards ridicules and defamation, PBKs have faced it more than the BKs. Many a times we have faced embarassing questions from our own PBKs. But all that was taken in a positive spirit and replies were given, sometimes even with the approval of Baba. If you have not gone through the earlier posts I would like to remind that members have even asked querries about the personal background of the souls whom PBKs consider as Mama and Baba, the arrest of Baba by Police for a few months, the parties that have emerged from among the PBKs etc. etc. If you go through the PBK Section you would find that most of the querries raised by Shivsena Bhai are so deep that we have to seek the answers from Baba. But when Baba himself does not feel shy in replying to these querries, then why do the BKs shy from replying to querries which have been asked respectfully?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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sweetchill
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Post by sweetchill » 04 Dec 2006

Most BKs - quite rightly - won't post on this site because it has an agenda.

But I've been banging that drum for a while, as you know. :D

You guys carry on thinking this is a great democratic forum of insight and wisdom. If it helps you sleep better at night.

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eromain
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reply to sweetchill

Post by eromain » 04 Dec 2006

Hi Sweetchill,

First of all apologies for not writing this response sooner. The conversation has moved on and I have no wish to drag it backwards. But for the record I should attend to the outstanding matters.
What truth, exactly, has eromain "exposed"?
If you read my report properly it is obvious that what has been exposed is the awful negligence of the responsible Seniors since the original events. They let children continue to go to madhuban whilst doing nothing about a pedophile there. And as child T pointed out to me only two years ago the pedophile Madhubaniwasi could still be there.

Whilst assuring me that they had done everything they could your Seniors had pointedly avoided talking to the two witnesses who could have identified him. Whilst assuring me that they were doing everything they could they were telling Janki Foundation patrons who had heard of the scandal that it was a taxi driver that had committed the madhuban crimes.

These people you love and who you want to portray as victims of harassment by me demonstrated two and only two concerns in this whole episode: They wanted to protect their personal positions in the organization and they wanted to protect the image of the organization. They did not demonstrate to me any culpability or regret for decades of inaction. They lied when it suited them and distorted the truths of others at will. They have not instituted child protection policies in good faith and I for one believe and have very good evidence to confirm that child welfare remains a serious failing in your organization.
you've been pretty desperate to find more examples of child abuse, indeed WANTED to find them
Only someone who has never heard a case of child abuse first hand would write such a thing. Contrary to your assumptions I have received information about all sorts of abuse -child-sexual and otherwise which I have not publicised. Because of my report I have been contacted about all manner of incidents, some of which have led to legal proceeding and many which haven’t but probably should. That you tell yourself there have only been two cases of child abuse is, frankly, pathetic. Go and ask Jayanti and Dadi if there have only been two cases of child abuse. You like trying to ask us lots of questions. Go and ask them a few. Oh and please let us know how you get on.

You clearly don’t know a thing about the underbelly of your organization. Ignorance is bliss. Fine, that is your choice. People like me and the members of this forum feel a responsibility to warn people, but if you personally want to ignore the warnings good luck to you. But to attack what is going on here so casually and to be so lazy with your words and your approach is a mistake I hope you will come to appreciate sooner or later. I personally really wish this forum existed 20 years ago. And ten years from now you’ll probably discover that we did actually have something to offer you. We’ve been where you are now, but you have not (yet) been where we are. Hopefully you never will. But statistically speaking, given that 90% of BKs leave, you probably will.

It was ten years after having left that I began to find out more about the true morality of the top BKs than I found out in 14 years of being in it. And it was the child abuse stuff and my dealings with the Seniors over it that gave me an insight you clearly haven’t had. There is a great deal of material I did not publish in my report but I there is enough there to justify the disappointment and distaste I now feel for the BK leadership. To take statements made by me at the end of this journey and to use them to characterize my state at the beginning is outrightly dishonest of you. I didn’t say a bad word about the BKs for some 15 years after I left and now when I have you use it to prove I was all bitter and twisted all along. What rubbish.
You have yet to confirm to me that you feel your motives are entirely honourable
You keep asking me about honorable motives: I haven’t answered so far for two reasons, firstly, my motives are stated in my report and, secondly, I do not think it is an honest question given you have clearly already made your mind up. Nevertheless, for the record, yes, my intentions were entirely honourable.

I am extremely proud of my work and I believe I did a lot of good. Although far, far less than I hoped. I shared some information that people were entitled to know and that was kept from them in a shameful way. I did this so that future children in your care would enjoy better protection. This aim, so far has not been achieved. But the fact that more wasn’t achieved is not for want of trying on my part. Anyone who came out of it looking bad did so not because of my actions but theirs, and anyone who is not prepared to be publicly accountable should not presume to care for other people’s children.

You are required by your God to view me as morally and spiritually inferior to the likes of you. As you say you are not saying I am a bad person. You do not need to. To the extent you are a BK you are required to view me as such. According to your religion I have betrayed God and returned to being a devil. Any such double Shudra like me who thinks they are doing good is deluding themselves. How could my intentions towards God and his holy angels be anything but riddled with vice? Where is the Murli where your God gives any credit to anyone leaving Gyan because of his conscience or some other virtuous reason? Given this I cannot take your question too seriously. You are either a very poor BK or you are being disingenuous.

Well, you are welcome to such attitudes. In reality us devils have our virtues still and we are even occasionally capable of acting upon them. Open your eyes, “impure” people do wonderful acts of kindness every day. I tried to help everyone concerned – the children, their families and, yes, the BKs. Anyone who thinks that your movement is served by keeping these ongoing failings hidden is much less of a friend to it than I have been. To say my work has done some good but to insult me in the same breath is pure hypocrisy. How hypocritical to accept the help and to slag off the giver.

Your religion does not exist for its leaders, it is supposed to be the other way round. These supposed paragons of egolessness and virtue should be the first to welcome help whoever it comes from. But note how it is me the devil who has got the humility to turn up here and answer every half baked criticism no matter how shoddily put, why? Because, riddled as I am with ego I still believe in accountability. Your near perfect egoless angel leaders have never felt that they owed everyone (or indeed anyone – including the victims) an account of their appalling behaviour. Well, good luck to them and to you, I’d rather follow my own conscience than aspire to such incomprehensible heights of virtue.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Dec 2006

sweetchill wrote:Most BKs - quite rightly - won't post on this site because it has an agenda.
I know you cant or will not answer my questions but let me ask another;

So what do you think is the "agenda" of this site then?

I am concerned because, at the end of the day, we don't know if or how much of a BK Brahmin you actually are and I would not want BK or even the BKWSU to be misrepresented.

• Just to keep things on topic, if you are a proper BK can you provide quotes or copies of the new season's Avyakt Murlis?

For me, this forum/site represents the other side of Gyan, the bit the Seniors Sisters don't want the world to see or know about or care; the broken families, the abuse, the internal politics. But it also provides freedom for "Brahmins"; a depth of thought about knowledge and questions important issues, a place to interact where no affected parties are excluded. The BKWSU version is just the tip of the iceberg, the facade, the icing.[/b]

Its simple psychology, folks with stuff to hide do not like it when it is exposed. I am reminded about the famous quote;
Gandhi wrote:First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
The BKWSU "Establishment" seems to operate on a different level ... never explain, never apologise, never confirm, never deny ... its a sort of grey moral mush that does not exclude them from making covert attacks on others.

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mr green
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Post by mr green » 04 Dec 2006

I'd say that most BKs won't come on here because they have an agenda.

Some that come on here also have an agenda.

In fact, having an agenda is probably quite healthy, discussing our various agendas in a peaceful, respectful way is indeed very healthy.

Sarcastically putting people down for trying is dirty. But if it makes you sleep better at night then, OK :D.

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sweetchill
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Post by sweetchill » 04 Dec 2006

Eugene,

I had just written a long reply, but I've deleted it as it was just a further bit of point-scoring.

I am willing to accept that your intentions when you started your work were honourable.

My personal asssessment of your report (which I've read several times over the past week) is that it reads like one long invective (if you take out T's letter - which wasn't your work). At the end of the day, it is down to the individual to make up their own mind when they read it as to what they think of your work.

We've gone off topic enough now, so I'll leave it there.

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sweetchill
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Post by sweetchill » 04 Dec 2006

Mr Green,

I've never denied I have an agenda - I am honest about that (that's why I sleep well at night - as well as a cup of chocolate Horlicks). I am happy to clarify it further, if you wish. This site has an agenda, which it is hiding (oh, the irony!). :D

Mr ex-l,

I have repeatedly made it clear that I think this website's main purpose is to denigrate the BKs and their work. Just look at the "news articles" section on the main page - most of the news stories are written by the site's authors themselves (and pretty shoddily at that). Where's the balance and impartiality in them? And I notice there's a section that's about to be launched exposing "media censorship" by the BKs. Marvellous! I don't know how much more "impartiality" I can take.

How can you *really* not understand why more BKs don't post here?

As per your other request to post Murli extracts on this website - why on earth would I feel the compulsion to do that?

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fluffy bunny
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Baba's fresh Knowledge

Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Dec 2006

sweetchill wrote:How can you *really* not understand why more BKs don't post here?

As per your other request to post Murli extracts on this website - why on earth would I feel the compulsion to do that?
Why? To share Baba's fresh Knowledge with your brother and sisters, and to do service to the hungry souls of the world that might find their way here. In short to show a good example of what a BK is.

If I was an actve pukka BK (rather than an eglatarian-democratic-heretical-gnostic-"invent the lefthand path for the Copper Age"-type of BK because I don't recognise any authority the Kirpalani Klan claim to decide who is saved and who is damned) I would post here and the first thing I would ask nicely is "please give me more information".

The allegations here are serious enough that if the BKWS University were a real University, there would have to be a public inquiry, a public response on behalf the leadership ... and heads would be expected to roll.

If I were you, I would post Murlis and demand official responses to post, so as to appear reasonable, balanced and rational; taking the moral or virtuous high ground rather than running with the "deluded" ... "stoopid" ... condescending or even sarcastic tone which you are adopting. Sorry to bring darna into the discussion. I don't suppose "self managed leaders" do darna.

The thing is you cannot post Murlis because the Senior Sisters would be unhappy with you. BKs are not even encouraged to email Murlis to each other in case they leak, is not it?So how could they let you feed the heretics?
  • • So, please, how much of a BK are you? Amrit Vela at 4 am, Morning Class at 6 am, how many of the Maryadas do you follow? Let us see your chart.
I am worried because if you are not a pukka BK, then I don't want you showing them up even more.

With on one hand the growth and rise of the PBKs and on the other hand the voice of extramural-BKs, the BKWSU is obviously entering a period change in which public inspection will play a greater part. I would suggest the BKs have leant too far one way and these reactions are a counter balance the other way.

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