Sex, Sexuality and Relationships within the BKWSU or PBKs

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fluffy bunny
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India

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Jan 2007

Andrey wrote:God comes in India because of its speciality of valuing purity and unadultery which cannot be seen in any other country.
Andrey, please keep your comments 'on topic' and do not exploit every occasion to babble on like a stuck record player.[/b]

Given your insensitivity, and lack of Gyani understanding, to Mr Green on another thread, I make no apologies to you for this response. My feelings were the same as John's but I am going to over-stress the point here, hopefully to sober you up on this issue. You are so spiritually drunken, intoxicated, about your mythical "India" that is is unbelievable. Welcome back to reality. If you want less of a reaction from me, please keep on topic.
  • • India is where child marriage, child rape and child prostution is still rife 20% of prostitutes are children, 25% of the child prostitutes have been abducted and sold, 6% have been raped and sold, 8% have been sold by their fathers after forcing them into incestuous relationships, 70% forced into prostitution, 15% of them sold by their husbands.
    • India is children as young as 9 are bought at auctions where Indian men believe sleeping with a virgin cures gonorrhea and syphilis.
    • India is where last year a 19 year old rape victim of 4 abusers and her daugher were auctioned for six rupees in Jharkhand (13 US cents).
    • India is where men believe that it is good luck to have sex with scalp-eczema afflicted prostitutes. Infants with the condition, called "pus babies," are sold by their parents to brothels for a premium.
    • India is where fresh supplies of 4000 to 5000 girls are married every year to the Goddess Yellamma and who then cannot marry a mortal, 15% then made into prostitutes.
    • India is where it takes fifteen years for girls held in prostitution via debt-bondage to purchase their freedom.
    • India is where 95% of the children of prostituted women become prostitutes where ritual castration still takes place.
    • India is where a nine-year-old girl from Pune was found living with a 54 year-old for over nine months and when contacted her Father said she was there with his consent. The man was released following an investigation and the Inspector General of Police said "paedophilia is a myth, it just does not exist."
    • India is where the mafia kidnapped a World Health Organization doctor who was warned to stop probing the links betwen politicians, the mob and prostitution, where underage girls are rarely found in brothels because the pimps and owners receive tip offs from police.
    • India is where women are still chattel and widows unwanted goods, where Fathers, brothers and husbands do not hesitate to sell their daughters, sisters and wives.
    • India is where on average a woman is raped every hour but are often reluctant to report rape and as even after proving that she has been raped, the victims are ostracized from her family and community.
    • India is where men throw acid into the faces of beautiful young women who do not wish to marry or consort with them and even petrol to burn them to death where according to the Hague Declaration: “Perpetrators enjoy virtual immunity from prosecution as the police, who often harbour caste prejudices, wilfully neglect to enforce the law”.
    • India was where until a few years ago, they used to burn widows on the funeral pile until the British put a stop to it.
    • India is where more than 10,000 girl babies are victims of infanticide each year. Many people feel that the actual number is much higher.
    • India is where 250 million women and children live in desperate poverty with an income of less than a dollar a day
    • India is where begging is an organized profession where mothers deliberately physically handicapped and disformed their children so as to increase their value as beggars.
    • India is still largely a feudal, even tribal nation, living in the middle ages.
    • India is where he Mumbai police can razed slum neighborhoods to the ground making 400,000 people, womena nd children, homeless and then follow up by beating up individuals whose home had been demolished.
Sometimes watching you is like watching a drunk man balance on top of a chair on top of a table shouting madly waiting for it all to crash to the ground.

Your mythical India does not exist. It never existed. Get it out of your head ... I suppose you are going to tell me now that you meant, "India is Virendra Dev Dixit" and "Virendra Dev Dixit is India"?

Yes, Bharat is a Brothel to quote the Murlis.

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Post by andrey » 02 Jan 2007

Yes, Bharat is brothel because only in Bharat people believe in many and worship many. Islamists, Buddhists, Christians are firm in their faith in one. But this Bharat also become a temple of Shiva where everyone worship only one Shivling.

In the Murlis it is said that we make effort to transform Bharat. Our vision changes. You also know about living Bharat ... in one Murli it is said you come in the brothel after 84 births ... not after 21 births ...

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Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Jan 2007

Andrey wrote:Yes, Bharat is brothel

Yes, and it is full of caged brothels with desparately unhappy and enslaved women and children imprisoned in them often born into them and dying of AIDs, selling themselves and being sold for a few rupees.
In the Murlis it is said that we make effort to transform Bharat. Our vision changes. You also know about living Bharat ... in one Murli it is said you come in the brothel after 84 births ... not after 21 births ...

Just out of interest, has the BKWSU ever attempted to challenge prostitution, child sex slavery and provide sanctuary for women looking to escape prostitution?
  • • Are the joint forces of evil within the Indian police, Indian government, wealthy Indian landlords, Indian upper-class consumers and Indian mafia males just too powerful for even the Maha Shiv Shaktis to challenge?

    • Have they or would they be willing to stake their faith against such an evil?
My thought is that if there is a chain of sorrow that is smuggling children and young women out of, say, Nepal as it is the most common source, a women's movement like the Brahma Kumaris are one of the few national organizations that could challenge such a trade at every stop and it would tie in nicely with their love of "purity and unadultery".

These girls' biggest crime is only being born female in a poor part of the country, to families that are victim to environmental issues we are all contributors to, or in a caste that have had their God given right of land and sustenance stolen from them by the capitalists.

It would make a nice change from self-promotion and sucking up to VIPs.

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Re: India

Post by freefall » 04 Jan 2007

ex-l wrote:If you want less of a reaction from me, please keep on topic.
  • • India is where child marriage, child rape and child prostution is still rife 20% of prostitutes are.....etc. etc."
I am from India though have mostly lived outside the country. I may be biased in my assesment, but despite ex-l's long list, I do not think situation is nowhere near as bad as it has been made out to be -- esp. on the sexual front. Surely, a mythical India does not exist but as far as "adultery" is concerned, it is still much less in India compared to what I have seen outside.

That said I think the argument about Shiva's coming to India and speaking Hindi, because of some special qualities of the region or language is bogus. Give me any region or language and I can come up with a list of qualities that prove them unique. OTOH, I can think of numerous shortcomings of India and Hindi, that can make them unsuitable for Shiva's coming. It is not really difficult once you decide to take a stand.

I do not understand why cannot we look at the issue as it is: Dada Lekhraj was born in India, and used Hindi to maximize his reach. It is simple. Now, you do not need any other rationalization unless you want to believe that he was a superhuman entity who made a conscious decision to be born in India and use Hindi. However if you have already believed him to be a superhuman entity, then why bother for rationalization?

I am sure if Dada Lekhraj had been born in England, it would not have been difficult to discover some equally amazing qualities in England and English.

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Re: India

Post by john » 04 Jan 2007

I am from India though have mostly lived outside the country. I may be biased in my assesment, but despite ex-l's long list, I do not think situation is nowhere near as bad as it has been made out to be -- esp. on the sexual front. Surely, a mythical India does not exist but as far as "adultery" is concerned, it is still much less in India compared to what I have seen outside.
Maybe they are more discreet in India with adulteress behaviour. What about human religious sacrifices in India.

I am not convinced that the west is a more 'sinful' place. I think just more open, but which is worse openness or hypocrisy ...

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Re: India

Post by freefall » 04 Jan 2007

John wrote:Maybe they are more discreet in India with adulteress behaviour.
They are surely more discreet in India. But even accounting for that.
What about human religious sacrifices in India
Yes. Even now I keep hearing a few freak incidents of this kind.

But frankly, if you are not simply going by the shock value, 'murder' should be much higher on your worry-list than 'human sacrifice'. Statistically speaking, one's probability of getting 'sacrificed' in India would be negligible compared to getting 'murdered' in the good old way.

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Re: India

Post by john » 04 Jan 2007

freefall wrote:They are surely more discreet in India. But even accounting for that.
If they are more discreet how can there be any accounting for it. In the Murli it says India goes from the highest to the most dedraded and that this doesn't happen so much in the west.
But frankly, if you are not simply going by the shock value, 'murder' should be much higher on your worry-list than 'human sacrifice'. Statistically speaking, one's probability of getting 'sacrificed' in India would be negligible compared to getting 'murdered' in the good old way.
Murder is everywhere. Do you think murder is more prevailant in India?

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Re: India

Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Jan 2007

John wrote:Murder is everywhere. Do you think murder is more prevailant in India?
8 times more than England, less than half of USA (22 times less than New Orleans ...). But you are much more likely to get away with it in India. Lowest incarceration levels. 30 times less than the USA.
freefall wrote:I am from India though have mostly lived outside the country. I may be biased in my assesment, but despite ex-l's long list, I do not think situation is nowhere near as bad as it has been made out to be
I am not anti-India. Its a continent of great extremes. Highs and lows. I am just anti- hyperbolic statements of exaggerated incongruity intended to achieve a special effect the politicians on soapboxes. And in Andrey's and elements of BK-ism's case, not anti-Andrey either, just this romance with an imaginary place.

The Far East and West have done great things too.

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Post by mr green » 04 Jan 2007

Men have willies in India, and ladies have vaginas in India. Sexual activity happens where-ever this is the case, people are people. To believe one region of the world is 'purer' than elsewhere or that people there only have morally sound sex is just laughable.

Just look at the population boom in India ... someones doing it :lol:

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Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Jan 2007

Mr Green wrote:just look at the population boom in India ... someone is doing it :lol:

Virgin birth ... The Advance Party ... Mosquito People self-replicating in swamps ... WARNING ... WARNING ... Maya ALERT ... ENTERING INTO DENIAL PHASE NOW !!!

Congralutations on manoeuvering around the word censor list again Mr Green, but what have Willys Jeeps got to do with procreation anyway? If you want to be really hot in India you get yourself a Hindustan Motors Ambassador now with power steering. Yup, John got it right ... valuing purity and unadultery but not practising it.

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Post by mr green » 04 Jan 2007

Hahahahah, I like a challenge. Hey, don't forget Tata :lol:.

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Post by freefall » 04 Jan 2007

Mr Green wrote:To believe one region of the world is 'purer' than elsewhere or that people there only have morally sound sex is just laughable.
People in the US also have knives, they also have necks and they also get mad at others. Does it mean that the murder rate in the US should be the same as in India?

People have same natural impulses everywhere. However, natural impulses are only half of the picture. The other half is the social/ legal systems in place that govern their natural impulses.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Jan 2007

freefall wrote:People have same natural impulses everywhere. However, natural impulses are only half of the picture. The other half is the social/ legal systems in place that govern their natural impulses.
Can you comment on the relevance of the social/legal system in India with regards to women, sexuality and purity? The difference between the Sindi and then Hindis? As a side note, I remember once in an early service instruction, Baba saying the effect of "... oh, don't worry about the Patels/Gujeratis) too much, they will come in the droves ... go somewhere else first".

On one hand one could, and a few have tried, to analyze the BK movement as a purely socio-psychological reaction, putting down a theory that e.g., Lekhraj Kirpalani had a bad experience of sex, marriage or witnessed a series of terrible sexually movitated crimes as a young man and it emerged that he started a movement. did not he lose his mother or something? Perhaps it led him to idealize women, their wants and needs. There is obviously the infuence of the 12 unnamed Vallabacharya Gurus. What do we know aout them?

On the other hand, one could state that celibacy was a specific component of this particular technique give by the "possessing" soul, Shiva. If so, I would like to know the actual mechanics of why it is necessary and what it does. Not just the medieval voodoo fear factors. I don't disagree, it just we should Gyan it and not depend on fluffed response. Collectively, one can very easily see the Om Mandali as a reaction against prevalent social mores of the Sindhi community they came from, which was materialist, Westernised and progressive; and one in which men were absent for long periods.

Looking at the place of women and sex within the place of India of that time, and even today, the first thing we see is that they are largely chattel, bound property for arranged marriages, in which virginity was the most important selling point. Daughthers were a curse and none moreso than a second hand, threatenly experienced, that knew what she wanted. So I think we have two threads combined here.

The obvious aspects are just practical; the freeing up of time, energy and resources; the negotiations and compromises that need to take place between couple and in relationships; the financial aspects; but I think the value placed on virginity and celibacy is more to do with the lack of psychic connections to other souls and the supremacy of psychic connections to the Shiva soul than social, racial or nationalistic tendancies.

Shiva / BapDada is just willing to use romantic and nationalistic tendancies within the soul to his benefit.

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Post by bansy » 05 Jan 2007

Can you comment on the relevance of the social/legal system in India with regards to women, sexuality and purity?
I do not want to upset the bobbing boats here, but, as in my remark about Lee James in another thread, often I find it best for someone who has been brought up and have lived for several years in a country (hence having gone through health, legal, education, social and employment to name a few systems), to give a fair opinion of a country they would like to opiniate on.

Due to lokik reasons, I have had the fortune (and misfortune too) of going through life in different countries spanning different cultures. Yet, I know still very little about the mindsets of any one country other than what I observe in media, plus my interactions with people in those countries. As time moves on, the opportunity to travel reduces (or rather the costs increases !), but the curiosity and learning has become greater and thus interesting. However, it has come down to generalisation rather than specialisation.

I do know that on overall balance, there are more good things than bad things in all cultures and countries, and there are actually so many commonalities between the peoples of the world. However, physical events such as World Cup and Olympics actually do very little to harmonise since the "sporting jesture" has been diminished, and for how do you compare the Gold medal of an poor African long distance runner to an US American 100m Champion say. Another physical events of late, the JAM in London, and the World Peace Festical in Delhi both during the latter of 2006 were two seemingly different events.

This is why I am hoping more BKs or PBKs from the subcontinent actually come into this forum, help us out with the differences in understanding. And lend us a hand in having the BK experience as an Indian in India. This is not to discredit everyone participating on this forum.

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Post by sparkal » 05 Jan 2007

If we take away poverty, we take away much of the problem with regards to social deprivation. The BKs don't mention poverty much, no doubt because Destruction is coming, and coming and er ... We know that the ultimate issue is spiritual poverty, but simple practical outlook is OK at times I feel.

The essence going on here in this thread could well be that there may be an arrogance which has developed in some, understandably, that God has come to India because it is a superior land mass. There are more millionaires in India % wise of population than anywhere else, which just makes the greed and general statistics worse, it is not as if all the money is abroad in other words. Interesting how something which was once bragged about can become a burden.

There is nothing wrong with wealth and abundance, it is the birthright of all of Gods children. If we get negative about having wealth and abundance, we may chase it from our door, which may be the clever ploy here. Lets give these shallow greedy people love and compassion, then there may be REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH. It is not as if anyone is wishing poverty on the rich and greedy, they can still be wealthy and have abundance, though they may have to renounce the elitist ego's and sick traditions.

Shiva comes to serve all souls and sees not culture, body type, social status age etc. If we are aiming to see Shiva's vision, then we need to leave all that behind before we start. I look forward to the fall of capitalist class systems and the Indian caste system. Like, something smells real bad :x ... and I have no guilt as I say that.

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