Channeling and the Psychic Dimension of BKWSU

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mr green
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Post by mr green » 27 Jul 2007

paulkershaw wrote:Any Ascended Master (A M) that I listen to or connect speaks through their medium in the language of the medium (sometimes simultaneously), so we know it is possible for the A M to do so. No reason why G-D couldn't do it either, is there? Often my 'guide' delivers info in non verbal ways, offering imagery and 'visions' instead of words ...
Hey, you're not into all that 'I am' stuff are you?????

I know someone who's gone to their headquarters in California.

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Post by malachiel » 28 Jul 2007

bro neo wrote:That's an interesting thought. Considering the ramifications of the channelings conducted by the BKWSU’s mediums so far, The Supreme Soul seems to only be able to acquire the language capacity of the corporeal mediums It uses. This appears to also limit the frame of reference in which the Supreme Soul can communicate and understand information; this makes The SS limited to certain language.
In Tibet, at the Drepung monastery, there are masters that teach you how to create a God for yourself. They teach you how visualize this entity, give it a corporeal form, communicate with it, have it move objects around. Then they ask you to destroy it. All that to show you what powers your mind has. People that pass this test are given initiation. People that don't leave the place with a creation of their mind.

If a single individual can do that, imagine 900,000 people meditating on Shiv Baba. If He exists, He has to maintain his own spiritual level while doing spiritual service and fight the barriers of limits that their limited minds impose on him (worthy of being called God) which would explain what is going on at BKWSU: when they are being teached about Shiva, they would see him through the limitations of their teachers on top of their own limitations. That would also explain

if Shiv Baba doesn't exist, then he would be the result of 900,000 and + people regular visualization. He would be destroyable, but pretty much real or close to be, in the collective unconscious. He would have the same effect as the real one, but, very limited action range, due to the limited point of view of the visualizers. Is this whole lot really ready to accept an all-loving and totally unlimited God with all that it implies? Doubt so! But they still define him and visualize him as such, so that He could alter everything surrounding them, because they want him to. They don't want to be wrong, so there has to be a result for all this meditating.

They would "create" the whole Cycle, and create an unconscious spot where the end of the world would be an acceptable fate, joining all the other religions that tell you that. They would be able to alter the course of history. What a beautiful spiritual mass weapon! Controlled once in a while by a new Murli, giving the main course of action ...

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Post by joel » 28 Jul 2007

malachiel wrote:if Shiv Baba doesn't exist, then he would be the result of 900,000 and + people regular visualization. He would be destroyable, but pretty much real or close to be, in the collective unconscious. He would have the same effect as the real one, but, very limited action range, due to the limited point of view of the visualizers. Is this whole lot really ready to accept an all-loving and totally unlimited God with all that it implies? Doubt so! But they still define him and visualize him as such, so that He could alter everything surrounding them, because they want him to. They don't want to be wrong, so there has to be a result for all this meditating.
While recognizing the power of group action and thought, I think we can acknowledge that the present age it is machines made of steel and powered by petroleum that are remaking the earth in their image. Tanks and bulldozers tend to win over people praying (unless those people have a ready supply of high explosive and knowledge -- originally developed during the Manhattan Project -- to make shaped charges. )

I have just finished reading The Psychology of War by Lawrence LeShan. He talks about how human experience life as multiple inconsistent realities, among which they transition smoothly according to context. I hope to write up a more in depth review. Okay, you can read him directly here: Lawrence LeShan.

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Post by malachiel » 29 Jul 2007

joel wrote:I have just finished reading The Psychology of War by Lawrence LeShan. He talks about how human experience life as multiple inconsistent realities, among which they transition smoothly according to context. I hope to write up a more in depth review. Okay, you can read him directly here: Lawrence LeShan.
That is a great text, really. I particularly love the comparison between peacetime and wartime. Now that I've read it, and compared it to my posts, I see that there's a lot of "they" in my phrases ... :D.

On the other side, if I try to understand the BK point of view, it looks a lot like wartime. "Time is limited, children have to become pure and not everybody will make it to Golden Age, you have to become the conquerors of Maya" and so on ... Becoming a lotus in a puddle of mud is not exactly everyday business.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 29 Jul 2007

malachiel wrote:On the other side, if I try to understand the BK point of view, it looks a lot like wartime.
For the early BKs time was a warzone. There world was the small inward looking caste and the children and many of the women, the world was their families alone. Their world was a war and being torn to pieces in the conflict between Lekhraj Kirpalani and the Panchyat, and soon after that came Indian War of Independence, WWII and Partition. All deeply traumatic.

None of which should be excluded from the psychological equation of the movement's creation. How much of it is one big projection of that trauma we wont know until 2036 ... or the re-writing once again of the prediction of Destruction.

I shake my head at the thought that I, in my time, was "acting out" their mental patterns and conditioning like a little puppet monkey. I advise others not to do so. All the senior BKs and most of the Indians and middle management need to go into therapy and not be allowed out and to lead others until they are made better.

In many way, part of the BKs confrontation with and reluctant, sideways adoption of Western values and mannerisms, and the like of us, is that therapy for them ... hence all the projection onto us of "defamation", "aggression", "evil" and so on in the meanwhile.

But they are still mucking about with ghosts and spirits and those spirits appear to me chamelon-like and dishonest in their fluid accrescence of worldly reference points used to achieve whatever their aim is.

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Post by bro neo » 02 Aug 2007

Thanks ex-l.

I used to be an Ascended Master enthusiast, before and after my BK days, but as I see it now faith in their teachings is sorta like changing the bed sheets on the Titanic. What I mean is I put all my eggs in the BKWSU basket and that turned out to have holes in it. The AM’s teachings as with most, if not all spiritually channeled teachings, have the same holes. The theories cannot be proven.

Is Saint Germain talking to me or is my mind’s creation of St. G. Was and is there really a Saint Germain (as is told by AM enthusiast) or was he a creation of a cult movement. At one point before joining the BK’s I had decided the thing for me to do was go to Virgina or Navada, or where ever it was where I read they had the little St. G. Community. At that point I didn’t even consider that St. G could be just a creation or team mascot for a group and leader who wanted to create a better world. A world where they’re ideas are right. Where they’re way of living life was the best. Where they owned God and God only talked to them. Sound familiar? :)

Sorry to be so blunt, and I’m not saying the AM movement, or any movement for that matter is a crock, but consider why faith in a religion or spiritual philosophy can truly be like sailing on the Titanic. We get on, you have full faith in the absolute unshakable security the philosophy gives us, and then, in the middle of the ocean, it sinks. Not to mention there are not enough life boats for everyone.

Instead of the Titanic one could have placed there lively hood in a much less propaganda orientated means of transport, one with a proven track record. Again I am talking about logic and personal discretion based on real physical evidence here. Sure it may not be as pretty and comfortable but it is the best we can do at this point in history.

The primary need of the human animal is security-survival (my understanding). From this need stems the need for approval, love, and control. The world can be an extremely unforgiving place, even in times of relative peace. How far will a person, or group of people go to have and own true security? Will they create a concept of God and reality with the most imaginative, creative and brilliant aspects of their minds. Will they do this unconsciously and then believe it so whole heartedly that they could pass lie detector tests and even manipulate physical matter with the amount of emotional energy they generate? Sure.

I grew up in an extremely insecure environment. I think most people in the world can relate to a greater or lesser degree. A recent profound personal insight I had was that my own insecurity was the unconscious driving force that drove me, night and day, to find the truth, for in truth is security.

Truth is in the eyes of the beholder. So if you have had some extraordinary conscious exploding experience, please, have faith in your self and your experiences and truly understand, follow and scientifically dissect the validity of your experience. This is how I now see my own near death experience, but even though with all its fantastic spiritual special effects I still question it, for like joel’s link talked about, experience is also flawed.

"No one in the world can alter truth. All we can do is seek it and live it." - St. Maximilian Maria Kolbe.

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Post by paulkershaw » 02 Aug 2007

bro neo wrote:Truth is in the eyes of the beholder.
Hey Neo

I think you've hit the nail spot on top of its head. Truth is certainly in the eye of the beholder as is beauty too.

I'd like to say though that in many cases, some people may be so desperate to find the truth that they'll do anything in order to do so. It seems to me that as a human bean walking this earth plane, that we've been taught (in the past ...) that the truth is this and that, etc, etc and the truth to be 'in a certain place or particular teaching' and so we run around searching and searching and certainly whilst we discover elements of 'truth' we do not seem to be able to discover the whole 'truth' - as it does not exist.

Surely, 'Truth' is 'ones own path' - that what makes one happy and fulfilled and growing spiritually. I am not sure if there's anything scientific in that process?

What I personally appreciate about (SOME) of the Ascended Master teachings is that one is given a choice within that teaching (or channeling) to accept what works for one, and reject the rest. The AMs I've been with certainly say that, and I can see that all they do is try plant a seed of inspiration or thought and then we can take it from there, when we're ready; even during question time they've been open to all sorts of ideals but handle their answer, generally with humour and a touch of irony at times, on a fully interactive and conscious level of connection as equals, not expecting me to sit at their feet gaping in awe- struck shock as they wonder around me staring ... (some may remember that on certain Madhuban walk-about experiences).

My point here is that, as you say, we're all wanting the truth but surely its a completely internalised journey/process, a soul/the light or work with the energy inside experience?

Perhaps thats why there's a few 'disenchanted' people on this forum? After all, each one of us found the truth did not we? For a while anyway. And then the realisation set in that maybe, just perhaps we hadn't actually, we just believed what we were told, hook, toli and sinker ... (I am trying to say this in context OK?).

Then when we discovered that perhaps there was an element of untruth in it, we ducked. Sayonara Babes! Outta there. Ciao Bella.

Good for us, at least we recognised we were being lied to (or deceived even). (I mean no-one is going to do that to me are they? I won't allow that would I?)

But what was left for us after that? After we left (and I sense that those who are still trying/planning to leave are also battling with this question) --- we had to then realise that we still had to work on ourselves and we still had to find our 'truth' did not we? and thats really hard work and takes an immense amount of courage too. It's tough having to re-start a whole life when you had it all panned out in your head and heart. Were we not told over and over, that G-d wuld take care of you through everything, therefore there's no more reason to think or feel anything else, even stop searching.

I mean, if one no longer has 'G-d' in person in your life, then one has nothing, which the BK teachings highlight endlessly. And we're all exhausted from trying and 'making effort' (to coin an old phrase ...)[i/] to find and live with the 'truth' - sometime its easier just to stick with something one knows (and maybe not even happy with) than even admit that one has to do something else in order to be happy, i.e find the 'truth'.

I feel we'll never find the 'truth' as long as we live - at least until we move away from the deep belief system that tells us over and over again to search and search instead of simply being the 'truth' - (be happy - be loving) as we know it and as we understand it, and from this point one will grow spiritually. As long as we continue to search, there'll be someone telling us what the truth is, for sure.

In my personal opinion there's nothing to find, only to discover. And thats what makes it so wonderful ~ despite having ones off days ~ our habits then become the truth we've been searching for ...

Just some of my own thoughts I am sharing ...
In light
P xx

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Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Aug 2007

One thing I have noticed is a kind of "upwardly mobileness" in the Spirit World.

Whereas in the old days, it used to be enuogh for someone to have a "guide" who was generally a romantic character like a 'Red Indian', 'Ancient Monk' or 'Wise Chinaman'; now they have to be an "Ascended Master". Often the same "Ascended Master".

So it may be that St Germaine is setting up franchises for other spirits to do his work for him.

I just take them as other human beings, with experience and an opinion, no more or less wise than anyone else. The more common element with spirit guides and their mediums is that they are tricky and unreliable. They can put on a good show, offer solace to the disheartened like a grandmother might and often, like astrology chart reading, crack through some psychological barrier than therapists would neve get anywhere near, but they need to be treated with great caution and care.

Mostly because of the addictive nature of interaction with them, see Joe Fisher's book "Hungry Ghosts". I'd like to be wrong but I cant say that I have ever been left feeling things were 100% with the process. Mediums seem to tap into human neediness and dependency.

Incidentally, there is not a lot of evidence that Indians, Monks or Chinaman were particulary wise of coped well with adopting to the modern world. Society would be better of learning skills or a trade and doing basic charity. I wish it was not true but that it my strong impression to date ... like lawyers, spiritualists profit out of other people's misery and insecurity. How to fix that?

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Post by alladin » 02 Aug 2007

Hi everybody, and thank you ex-l for mentioning Fisher's book on "Hungry Ghosts" (BTW, it's the third time I try to write this mail and it disappears whist I try to paste!!).

I read something about it on Amazon and copied somelines for all of you to read on this post. I realize how the BKs are very light and superficial about channelling. Even people like me, that would keep clear from mediums & co, were tricked into thinking that, "this is totally different from anywhere else ... harmless ... in fact beneficial because it's God". So we really grew accustomed to thinking it was safe, cool and acceptable. (Although not quite understandable, nor proofable!!").

So, are we or have we been a bunch of credulous fools, or what?! When does the "being played around with like kittens to a piece of string being dangled from some psychic realm just above us." - like ex-l expressively said on the God topic - start? In the mythomanic belief that we are elect children?

"Particularly instructive is Fisher’s account of how a Montreal-based yogic group headed by Swami Vishnu Devananda was nearly destroyed in 1977-79 when a group member began to channel an entity who identified himself as the group's revered founder, Sri Swami Sivananda (1987-1963).

Even though Sivananda's own writings had explicitly warned against channeling, Vishnu became convinced that the communicating entity was indeed the beloved departed guru, convinced by the speaker’s (if you'll pardon the expression) dead-on phrasing, intonation, use of Sanskrit, apparent clairvoyance, apparent healing powers, etc.

Soon the group was meeting nightly to receive the master's wisdom. The results were regrettably typical: "With protracted deviousness, the invisible presence deluded its audience into believing that they were the chosen Children of Light. Dire global predictions were made and, ultimately, the group was surged to stockpile food and weapons in readiness of the advancing breakdown in social order." Vishnu belatedly realized that the group was being manipulated by a clever and malevolent imposter, but many group members refused to accept this.

But if you’re still sure it can’t happen to you, then you can afford to skip this book."

Does it sound somewhat familiar?

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Re: mediums

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Aug 2007

alladin wrote:Does it sound somewhat familiar?
Yeah ... let's start buying guns! :| (No food in case we start over-eating ...). reading over the message, do we know if that was BapDada on one of his 355 days of the year off?

I had forgotten that particular quote. But, if anyone is in any doubt of how close to the bone this is ... have a look on the Wikipedia article discussion because the BKs are going to eradicate all mention of channelling and possession if they can.

Good work green108 for standing his ground on this issue. Really, what else did happen to Lekhraj Kirpalani? OK, it might or might not be the Supreme amonst Souls ... but the mechanics are the same, are they not?

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Re: mediums

Post by joel » 03 Aug 2007

ex-l wrote:Yeah ... let's start buying guns! :| (No food in case we start over-eating ...). reading over the message, do we know if that was BapDada on one of his 355 days of the year off? I had forgotten that particular quote. But, if anyone is in any doubt of how close to the bone this is ... have a look on the Wikipedia article discussion because the BKs are going to eradicate all mention of channelling and possession if they can.
"So what if the source was a channel? They are only teaching people the truth, their identity as souls rather than bodies."

BTW, what is different from channeling than me writing? Am I representing myself, or is some enlightened crystalline cotton-candy energy channeling through me? Many bags of potato chips have channelled me, focusing my entire being into the rapid devastating destruction of potatos fried in oil. My Father sometimes starts at the shrill and extreme libertarian spirits that manage to channel their nonsense through my diverted senses.

"Craziness is just logical thinking followed to extremes" someone said, or I made up just now (this morning actually), so I channeled that.

The problem with wise sayings is that wisdom seems incapable of bringing power to heel in the statistical aggregate that is human society. The young hotheads disregard the cautionary words of the elderly and the battlescarred. The elephant seals that fight and mate in Santa Cruz, California don't eat while they are visiting. The guys have to fight for territory, coming too early in the season and you can get a spot, but you'll be exhausted of strength to fight, depleted in their own supplies of fat.

Conflict among humans.

I am just gushing out what should be a second article, not having finished the first. But this war thing. I spent two days convincing a friend of mine of my view of the ineluctable power escalation of the military industrial complex. I converted him completely. According to him, the idea that finally tipped him was that the people controlling government, their wealth and power is continuing to increase, so that they have wound everything up to their advantage, all the levers of power are in their hands. Why would they walk away?

Is there any sign that they would want to voluntarily relinquish what they have so devoted themselves to acquire? Wealth and power flows to them in war. War is the massive unlimited exploitation of resources. It is like a fire. The power and wealth that accrues through war is an impossibly seductive trigger to individuals who have devoted their entire lives to building privilege and power.

The original Crusades are considered triumphs of stupidity. But the equation is the same, war for fame, money, land, resources, power.

War, to me is chemical (and nuclear!) energies channeling themselves through humankind. We are pathetic Matrix nervous systems that instinctually bond to tools, to knowlege, to craft. Giving our all to produce the fossil-fuel nuke conflagration that, appears to have increased the surface temperature of the Atlantic ocean, having doubled the average annual Atlantic hurricane and tropical storm counts over the past 100 years.

The person who "channeled" the bridge in Michigan obviously failed to do so. Belonging to companies, we channel corporate entities of dubious motivations. So many willing workers at Monsanto, where the possibilities of DNA manipulation (both recombinant and by controlling agribusiness seed stocks) not only the actual achievements but also the ability of future promise to attract bigger and bigger and bigger money.

Yet none of those commercializing it and probably no one in the entire company understands the implications of the novelty. Novelty means uncertainty. Yet the arrogance is driven by promise. And we are subjected to the arrogance of the drug companies, the ag companies, virtually everyone until there is a tragedy and a scandal, a temporary watchfulness before another cycle of "stupidity".

The problem with all the political commentators who deride stupidity and duplicity of the opposing side, it is not about being stupid. Everything is based on opportunity, resources, domination, just like the elephant seals fighting on the beach. Fighting for what matters more than anything else, or anyone else in the world.

Government exists to put an acceptable face on the unacceptable, the preordained outcome presented as choice.

Government is channeled by the energy that wants to rupture through its activation limits, discharging itself into chemical relaxation, completely careless of its target, whether a bulldozer crushing a person in a home or a cluster "bomblet" awaiting a moment of acceleration to explosively lash out shrapnel. Somehow the "energy" has channeled people into creating and using these ruthless weapons.

Coming back to our once Beloved Baba and now sex-anorexic Lehkraj Kirplani's wiki article topic of possession and spirits, I once opposed the emphasis on channeling in the first paragraph on that article. I have since come further.

Offering a person to be elite, and promising that God will take responsibility for him or her is not a healthy basis for spirituality. Even soul consciousness is only a healthy basis for spirituality according to the people who believe in it. All this stuff is typical of apparent spirits that acquire shamanistic authority as arbiters of truth and wisdom.

Wooh, that some pretty weird sh&t I've been channeling. 8)

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Post by malachiel » 03 Aug 2007

Joel, Ex-I, Neo, Aladdin, Paulkershaw,

Awesome posts. I am blown and reading through.

From what I understand, joel, what you're saying is what differenciates creativity and channeling? Well, I would say the number of sold copies and your position on the billboard ... Or how much the customers are willing to let their ordinary and boring lives to get into your fantasy world. That is also called channeling. Look at Star Trek, or the Lord of the Rings: I know people who have learned Elfen or Klingon or else ... They feel like they are the chosen ones too ...

On a lighter note: DND NERDS GET OWNED BY COPS.

He must have been the chosen one. I am glad I did not turn out that way.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Aug 2007

[quote="joel"][/quote]
I divine that what you are saying is what is the difference between channelling and automatic writing?

Automatic writing ... was that not how Lekhraj Kirpalani started? Was that how the early Murlis were delivered? It is certainy used by those teaching the development of what are called psychic skills.

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Post by mr green » 03 Aug 2007

Well, the little boys at wiki have got green 108 a temporary ban and are now about to remove the content of the talk page including the beautifully worded piece demonstrating the truth about BKWSU being involved in channelling and mediumship ...

So, if you want to read it, I suggest you do today :lol:.

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Post by joel » 03 Aug 2007

mr green wrote:Well, the little boys at wiki have got green 108 a temporary ban and are now about to remove the content of the talk page including the beautifully worded piece demonstrating the truth about BKWSU being involved in channelling and mediumship ... So, if you want to read it, I suggest you do today :lol:.
I read it, and found it to be excellent. Good work, Green108!

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