• May I ask, or anyone else, can you shed light on the rumours of three young women being trained up to act as mediums for BapDada in case Hirday Mohini dies?
bert wrote:ex-l's denial of spiritual benefit, repeated reference to spooks, plus the fact that he would have met when the medium was less experienced than in my own time, strongly suggests to me that he may have experienced otherwise. I am hoping he will add his own interpretation of his experience to this debate.
Full discussion of these matters will have to wait. In the context of this thread, I am very interested in discussing the issues in depth. But I have a few other jobs on my hands with my nose full of 70 year old Sindhi dust right now, as my other posts show.
In brief, as someone that grew up with 'Casper the Friendly Ghost', I am sorry but I do not find it disrespectful at all. Indeed, it is only a child with a very pure and innocent heart that can see such a ghost and have an intimate, playful relationship with it; being led, guided and protected.
Be careful - and very specific - when you make allegations of me. There are too many people on the internet, and out there, that seem to think they know me better than I know myself, and the Yagya. And to date, to speak cricket with you, my bating average is fairly good.
No, I never had the kind of experience that you are suggesting. I have never suggested that another, say, 'lower astral entity' or non-BK 'dead person' also pops in and out of Gulzar when ... who ever it is
... possesses her. Here I ought to eat my own advice and be specific too. Capital 'S' Spook and lower case 'spook'.
Can you provide references for the research you mention regarding,
Bert wrote:spiritual traditions and secular research suggests that possession, as in an energy from a more subtle plane taking over a physical body is not possible
Do you mean the one who is possessing comes from a lower plane?
In general response, I distinctly highlight the difference between channelling 'beings' and channelling 'energies' as, to the public face, it becomes clouded within the BKWSU. But you are right to say that our understanding, and their teaching, of what is going on is so vague as to leave those of us who think with more questions than answers. Its more of a Bhakti thing to just not care and just "accept the benefit" in blind faith.
The having of an experience, a bit like going to Lourdes, equalling in some way 'merit gained' and a change in one's life. When to onlookers there is no difference. Are the BKs beating up the PBKs in someway beating them up differently, just because they have met God in person? Is the quality of stroke different? Is the PR spin in someway, more acceptable spin?
From my earliest days in Gyan, possibly even my first sitting, I realised that it was not just the so-conceived God Father Shiva that was talking in the Murlis. This was deeply denied and repressed by my teachers, and their teachers (the SS), at that time. "It was God ... GOD ... SUPREME GOD ... do not question
". Time has mellowed and there appears to be some admittance of this. The general consensus on this forum, whether from ex-BKs or PBKs, is that it is Lekhraj Kirpalani/BB that is entering Hirday Mohini.
Now, to include your proposal, whether the entity of Lekhraj Kirpalani/BB in possession of Hirday Mohini's body ... and is then channelling the 'energy' of Shiva Baba ... I do not know. But that would fit in with the PBK point of view that it is only Lekhraj Kirpalani that is being channelled via the Brahmakumari sister but that his Vanis or versions are in line with Shrimat.
The PBKs go on to state that it is the respectively 'lower' level of Lekhraj Kirpalani's consciousness that create the effects on Gulzar's body and face. To that I might add, ditto the psychic effects you and others on this forum have reported, of seeing an entity enter into her body/head and the psychically perceived transmogrifications of her face.
And what of when othe dead BKs enter her? Who is the gateway, her psychic guide, the control, the mechanism of choice? And who calls and controls the 'BapDada' entity/entities? Have we ever had a satisfactory explanation of why the personality is so changed between Sakar and Avyakt?
I don't question something is happening. I just do not put a great deal of value onto it. Now, the PBKs question if the Murlis do not repeatedly say that the whole matter of Shiv's alleged moments of embodiments are much more subtle and refined. I could agree with that. At the moment I am just standing back and looking at the thing as a whole, and wanting to slow the action right down. There is too much fast talking ... 'pea under the shell stuff' ... "now you see it now you don't" going on. Shiv could well be popping in and out of elsewhere ... It says he does in the Murlis ... But what is the value of that either. Who is he/they?
- ... AND WHEN DID HE (Shiva) ACTUALLY COME ON THE SCENE AND ENTER THE PHILISOPHICAL CANON? IT HAS TO BE AFTER 1950, WHICH IS POST-THE MOVE TO ABU. DID THEY RE-INVENT THEMSELVES THEN OR DID HE JUST MAGICALLY APPEAR?
I presume you and the BKWSU have seen my other posts concerning the falisification of Lekhraj Kirpalani's date of birth and the eradicating of 18 years of belief ... at least ... that Lekhraj Kirpalani was GOD PRAJAPATI.
My position is that it is not what goes in your ears and eyes, or even the back of your head, that makes you divine or defiles you, it is what comes out of mouth or is done my our hands. And I am looking at that right now. So what? 70 years monopoly of personal contact with Supreme Soul God and what do you do? Lie about his age, engage in Stalin-esque media control and historical revision ... that seems spooky to me.
- By the fruit you will know the seed.