BK Food issues

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sparkal
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BK Food issues

Post by sparkal » 05 Jan 2007

One lump or two? Before throwing the toys out of the pram. We started refusing to eat tolli with sugar in it, over 20 years ago. It was not received that well by those in the centre at the time and those who followed, yet they not only got used to the idea but benefited themselves. There was this idea that this stuff was some sort of wonder food, sacred sweets, something you must take like medicine or you wont grow up to be a big strong yogi. I will keep an open mind on whether I have ever had a spiritual lift from eating food, I think so.

Anyway, let us get down to basics; sugar as a sex substitute. A substance which can make people say and do strange things even. Emotional disturbance. Doesn't sound ideal, or feel it, after that initial 1 minute hype thing. If you eat a fair bit outwith the centre, the effect from eating sugar at the centre will be far less than for someone like myself who has not bought a bag of sugar for a very long time. As far as I am aware, there have been changes in the area of diet within BK's over the years, as the body may have been treated with some disrespect in the past. Ah yes, Maya, and the need for comfort eating, filling the void with food. We can do worse I guess, but it seems like an area which needs more attention, without fanatisism and fettish.

I came to the conclusion that it was effecting my behaviour to some degree, which is not that welcome during stints of yogic life. If we consider the effect it has on the behaviour of children, then I cannot accept that it will not effect adults to some degree, especially ones who just happen to be attempting to tap into subtle states of mind, very subtle. There is also the possibility of a genetic aspect and the effect of sugar on different genetic types. It may not effect some as much as others.

As with any drug, the body becomes immune and so greater doses are required and of course we get used to doing things while on the stuff, doing silly things even, subtly of course. There is loads of sugar in many things naturally without adding.

Being a yogi and eating a vegetarian macrobiotic diet, the ultimate lifestyle if the balance can be struck. On the other hand, let us consider an individual who comes on to the path, becomes celibate etc and follows the routine. This in itself is a big change in anyone's life. Many coming on to the path will change their diet to some degree also, something which alone we should do, ideally over a 6 month - 2 year period, depending on the previous diet. If we change too quick, we can end up winding up the spring, which can rebound eventually. We are talking about life changes, so we should consider the extreme changes that may be going on and whether we are going too fast. We become Clark Kent when the Yoga is going good and it is all easy, it may also cause illusions of changing in an instant as we wind up the spring, yet I cannot at the same time condone eating bad food. Slow change. Life change.

So, I have left Gyan, and can eat anything I like. It doesn't matter any more. Hmm. Whether on the path or not, I feel better when my diet is good no matter what my lifestyle. The combination of lifestyle changes is therefore something we should consider when approaching the path. Higher quality sugars such as fresh fruit and Malt syrups are useful alternatives, though it is sugar none the less so we can over do it. You will find that, after thinking that you have found an alternative to sugar in fructose, you will realise that it is similar to sugar in effect. It could be used as a stepping stone, as with honey, from sugar to malt (grain) syrups.

One could argue that BK's have renounced enough and need some sort of release, drug even, and I won't argue, so it comes down to the individual to choose their own path as the principles don't go into things like, the effects of sugar. We certainly need to have a treat of some sort at times, though, that sugar hit does not come to mind.

Another point is the differing effects that sugar may have on male and female and its use within the BK's. Veg oil, and refined wheat / flour are another two questionable, "send me off to sleep" ingredients. The combination of them all can be a bit much, for yogi's at least. (Now, where did I put that gulab ladu thingy?). My least favourite Tolli was always that slate of raw sugar with a few sesame seeds in it, an insult to the taste buds, not to mention the teeth.

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Garlic

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Jan 2007

I have to say ... even now I cannot stand garlic, don't cook onions at home and hate the way it seems to be stuffed into all and every vegetarian food. It is almost impossible to avoid unless you cook your own. Sattvic is not just a BK concept.

If one does not actually eat onions and garlics, the smell of it on others skin is really off putting. I was amazed at how even if I eat a little in food cooked outside it can fill my apartment up afterwards through my skin and breath. I do not know the real reason why it is excluded but the thought of sitting in a room with 25,000 people all stuffed full of it is a good enough one for me! The stupidity of "... its a good blood purifier" seemed lost on believers ... why need a purifier, why not just have pure blood in the first place and not need it!?! (i.e. no meat and animal products). However, I found this that mind point to a scientific reason why not. Any comments?

GARLIC - TOXIC SHOCK! Reprinted from Nexus Feb/Mar 2001
Dr. Robert C Beck wrote:The reason garlic is so toxic, the sulphone hydroxyl ion penetrates the blood-brain barrier, just like DMSO, and is a specific poison for higher-life forms and brain cells. We discovered this, much to our horror, when I (Bob Beck, DSc) was the world's largest manufacturer of ethical EEG feedback equipment. We'd have people come back from lunch that looked clinically dead on an encephalograph, which we used to calibrate their progress. "Well, what happened?" "Well, I went to an Italian restaurant and there was some garlic in my salad dressing!" So we had them sign things that they wouldn't touch garlic before classes or we were wasting their time, their money and my time. I guess some of you who are pilots or have been in flight tests ... I was in flight test engineering in Doc Hallan's group in the 1950's. The flight surgeon wo uld come around every month and remind all of us: "Don't you dare touch any garlic 72 hours before you fly one of our airplanes, because it'll double or triple your reaction time. You're three times slower than you would be if you'd not had a few drops of garlic."

Well, we did not know why for 20 years later, until I owned the Alpha-Metrics Corporation. We were building biofeed-back equipment and found out that garlic usually desynchronises your brain waves. So I funded a study at Stanford and, sure enough, they found that it's a poison. You can rub a clove of garlic on your foot - a you can smell it shortly later on your wrists. So it penetrates the body. This is why DMSO smells a lot like garlic: that sulphone hydroxyl ion penetrates all the barriers including the corpus callosum in the brain. Any of you who are organic gardeners know that if you don't want to use DDT, garlic will kill anything in the way of insects.

Now, most people have heard most of their lives garlic is good for you, and we put those people in the same class of ignorance as the mothers who at the turn of the century would buy morphine sulphate in the drugstore and give it to their babies to put'em to sleep. If you have any patients who have low-grade headaches or attention deficit disorder, they cannot quite focus on the computer in the after-noon, just do an experiment - you owe it to yourselves. Take these people off garlic and see how much better they get, very very shortly. And then let them eat a little garlic after about three weeks. They'll say "My God, I had no idea that this was the cause of our problems." And this includes the de-skunked garlic's, Kyolic, some of the other products. Very unpopular, but I've got to tell you the truth.

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Post by arjun » 07 Jan 2007

Dear ex-l,
This is one area where you would be ready to congratulate BKs and PBKs for propagating avoidance of onions and garlics, would you not?
Regards,
Arjun

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Post by mr green » 07 Jan 2007

I loved onions before becoming BK ... one of my favourite things was a cheese and onion sandwich ... raw onion of course mmmmm. I was never keen on garlic though, not civilised enough probably :lol:.

I do eat them now but in moderation, I don't mind a bit in my food. I am veggie still but I will also eat something that has egg in it, say cakes for instance.

For me it's just the idea of killing animals for foodwhile we don't need to that I don't like, so egg doesn't really come into that ... but I wouldn't eat them on their own.

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Post by mitra » 11 Jan 2007

:D I AM WAITING FOR THE Golden Age to have that nice delicious fruit - the original product of sadopradhan nature.

I wonder whether mixer grinder will be used in Golden Age to make a glass of JUICE? :D

IBHS
MITRA :D :D :D

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Post by mr green » 12 Jan 2007

It feels obvious to me now that God is not behind the BKs, or the Murlis.

If he was, this wouldn't happen. It's as simple as that in my eyes.

They are re-writing the Avyakt Murlis in the same way as they have re written the Sakar Murlis. It's been going on for years.

Everything that reaches the students goes through the hands of 'teams' with nothing better to do than believe they are instrumental for the Almighty in making sure you don't read anything they feel unsuitable for their 'students'. This is what the Seniors call BKs in private. They see BKs as below them. In fact, they are still serving them.

It's called fear.

Even the books are re-written. The original correspondence course was re written by Jayanti. I have copies of both. Also that old book called 'The New World' or was it 'The Gates of Heaven' (help me out older BKs). It was mainly the old pictures with a few pages of badly translated Hindi Gyan.

In the original copies, it stated clearly which foods were tamopradhan. And in that list was plainly tea and coffee, in the later versions this was edited out.

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Post by arjun » 12 Jan 2007

mr.Green wrote:even the books are re-written, the original correspondance course was re written by jayanti, I have copies of both, also that old book called 'the new world' or was it 'the gates of heaven' help me out older BKs, it was mainly the old pictures with a few pages of badly translated Hindi Gyan, in the original copies it stated clearly which foods were tamopradhan, and in that list was plainly tea and coffee, in the later versions this was edited out
It has also appeared in the Sakar Murlis that tea is not offered to deities in the Bhaktimarg, so it should not be consumed. It may be possible that keeping in view the above Shrimat, during the days of Brahma Baba tea and coffee was not being served to BKs at Madhuban or BK centers. This must have continued in the early years of 1970s. But when the foreigners and VIPs started arriving at Mount Abu and BK centers, the above rule must have been relaxed/changed to please the foreigners and VIPs, for whom it might have been difficult to bear with the cold weather of Mount Abu without these beverages. And now I have heard and some PBKs have even seen that cold drinks are being sold in the BK complex at Taleti, Abu Road during the BapDada season. It is the same cold drinks against which the Yoga Guru Baba Ramdev and many other social organizations and even the Govt. of India has launched a campaign.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jan 2007

arjun wrote:This must have continued in the early years of 1970s. But when the foreigners and VIPs started arriving at Mount Abu and BK centers, the above rule must have been relaxed/changed to please the foreigners and VIPs, for whom it might have been difficult to bear with the cold weather of Mount Abu without these beverages. And now I have heard and some PBKs have even seen that cold drinks are being sold in the BK complex at Taleti, Abu Road during the BapDada season.
Ha! I know a few of the senior sisters that love them too.

Jayanti is a really coffee hound and it shows. I was shocked when I heard she drank airport coffee. My guess much of the service plans and VIP servers are fuelled by caffeine which explains a lot. I certainly was taught to teach they were at least rajas and not sattvic. Even some Buddhist schools teach not to use them because they make for hot heads, I agree they should be out. Cold weather is not excuse. Are you saying that the BKs are accepting drinking machines sponsored by America-style beverages!?!

There were some famous test done with spiders under the influence of various drugs, see below;

Image
Normal web

Image
Spider on LSD

Image
Spider on caffiene

Says it all!

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Post by mr green » 12 Jan 2007

Of course, you know Dadi Janki is partial to the odd can of fizzy Ribena.

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Post by amaranthine » 14 Jan 2007

ex-l wrote:Are you saying that the BKs are accepting drinking machines sponsored by America-style beverages!?!
A latte dispensing machine at the london or oxford centre would be fantastic - what a great idea!!

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Post by arjun » 14 Jan 2007

ex-l wrote:Jayanti is a really coffee hound and it shows. I was shocked when I heard she drank airport coffee. My guess much of the service plans and VIP servers are fuelled by caffeine which explains a lot. I certainly was taught to teach they were at least rajas and not sattvic. Even some Buddhist schools teach not to use them because they make for hot heads, I agree they should be out. Cold weather is not excuse. Are you saying that the BKs are accepting drinking machines sponsored by America-style beverages!?!

I would not like to comment on individual cases in accordance with the Shrimat given in the Murlis, but it is widely believed among the BKs (and perhaps PBKs) that in case where self cooking is not possible one could eat or drink machine-made food/drinks. I don't have any proof from the Murlis/Avyakt Vanis to prove this. It is believed that when Dadi Prakashmani went to Japan first of all, she was allowed to eat machine-made bread. This is where the rule of consuming machine-made products began, I suppose.

As regards Coffee, I don't think its consumption has been prohibited anywhere in the Murlis, while Tea seems to have been prohibited. A reason could be that during the times of Brahma Baba Coffee was not as much popular in India as Tea. Even today Coffee is more popular in the extreme south of India (particularly in the state of Tamilnadu). If newspaper/magazine reports are to be believed sometimes Tea is proved to be good for health and sometimes Coffee and vice-versa. So it is up to the individuals to decide whether they want to consume tea/coffee/none of these.

At Madhuban, Mt. Abu all three options (milk, coffee and tea) are available to the visiting BKs. But at AIVV two of the above three options (i.e. Tea or Coffee) are not available since many years. Instead, during the winters, the surrendered sisters and brothers, and sometimes the visiting parties of PBKs are offered milk or indigenous nutritious beverages, which are good for health. Otherwise the food-related rules for BKs and PBKs are almost the same.

And as regards the off shoots from the PBKs, I have heard from my ex-PBK friends that they are given a lot of leniency with reference to food. Some of my ex-PBK friends who had visited Vishnu Party in the early days of its establishment in 1997 said that they were offered some sweets purchased from outside. Now that we have an official representative of that party on this forum, she could clarify the position in a better way. At the meetings of the off-shoot of Vishnu Party led by Nagraj Bhai of Hyderabad, sweets purchased from shops are offered as Toli. At least one Ex-PBK who joined the group led by Ex-PBK Satish Mehta of Bombay also told me that he was allowed to eat in marriage parties of the outside world. May be these groups believe that their stage is so high that the consumption of food cooked in the outside world by non-BKs would not have any affect on their spiritual growth, unlike the BKs and PBKs who believe to the contrary.

With malice towards none,
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Jan 2007

arjun wrote:I would not like to comment on individual cases in accordance with the Shrimat given in the Murlis, but it is widely believed among the BKs (and perhaps PBKs) that in case where self cooking is not possible one could eat or drink machine-made food/drinks. I don't have any proof from the Murlis/Avyakt Vanis to prove this. It is believed that when Dadi Prakashmani went to Japan first of all, she was allowed to eat machine-made bread. This is where the rule of consuming machine-made products began, I suppose.
A satvice diet is not something the BKs invented. Indeed, the BK allowances start to stray away from traditional satvic principles and are more leniant already.
  • What is the relationship between the common understanding of the three gunas; 'sattvic, rajasic, tamsic' and the BK's application of it? Is it actally rooted in the Murli? I don't actually remember onions and garlic coming up at all in them
Obviously numerous influences of the earlier days where just cultural from Lekhraj Kirpalani's Hindu background. Interestingly enough, although rooted in his Vaishnavism, is not unique to Hinduism. Some Buddhist's groups follow it also.

A proper satvic diet would also exclude beans left over night, food cooked twice, I doubt tinned food can properly be called satvic. Sativc is very keen on freshness, when the food has all its prana still in it. [But to the BKs I spoke to, "prana" was just more "Bhakti" and they were pretty uncosonscious about food]. Personally, I was also quite surprised when I saw white brothers for the first time cooking mushrooms which are also advised against in some places / by groups in India.

Where are all these rules written down?

Coffee has twice the amount of caffiene than tea. It is far worse mind altering drug then tea. Ditto above, it is not satvic and dristhi cannot remove the karmic swing of caffiene [the higher the up, thelower the down!] and even non-BK/Hindus recomment against it.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Jan 2007

amaranthine wrote:A latte dispensing machine at the london or oxford centre would be fantastic - what a great idea!!
Don't worry, after the failure of the Destruction predictions in 2036, Brian Bacon is going to broker a deal to sell of the entire BKWSU chain to Starbucks and his old mates McDonalds where they will serve Brahma Burgers, Jayanti Espressos and Jammy Janki Muffins, playing Bliss CDs constantly ... also available at the counter to purchase! Stock options available now from OLA International, Inc ... for a small commission fee, naturally.

So, if you can wait that long, you will be fine ...

Yup, Abrahma Kumar, the Avyakt Murlis are being chopped too albeit not as viciously as the unpolitically correct Sakars. Its a shame that they just do not publish both versions for the more scholarly BKs that actually care about truth. Who knows what they are up to, "softly softly is the name of the game ... "the mouse blows before it bites".

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Post by mr green » 16 Jan 2007

There was once a proper frothy coffee machine in the main dining room at Madubhan, but some spoilsport put pay to that :lol:

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Post by bansy » 16 Jan 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:the newer version now had titles in the table of contents.....some of the notes taken corresponded exactly with the titles in the new book. So I guess there can be benefit in all the Yagya's developments.
The question being debated is, even if there are Murli revisions being made to the benefit of the Yagya, who is giving that authority ? Who is giving those new headings. If God wanted a give a title or an essence or a slogan or a blessing, then He would do during His conversations.

I don't think fathers or mothers around the world and speak to their children ..."before I am about to speak, the Essence of what I am going to say is ... and now the Slogan for you today is ... ". Of course, it makes it easier to study, and also easier to teach. It is for the children to learn about the essence of a Murli and work out it out with their intellect. So I feel a Murli should be read as it was spoken, and then afterwards a class can be discussed about what the essence was. Can you imagine Sakar Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) speaking like that? Or BapDada?

However, textbooks have contents and indexes, and textbooks are how most students normally study. It is fine if that suits oneself, but I don't think you can learn spirituality the textbook way.

I think the Murli/Vani is to be listened to, not to be read (it would appear second-hand). So when it comes in paper form, it too has to be tried to be listened to. Then the true essence, accurate for your intellect and not from another person, would be found, though that essence may coincide with another soul.

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