Young, Gifted & Black in the BKWSU ...

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Do you find yourself in this birth as a BK / ex-BK soul in black body?

Yes
3
16%
No
16
84%
 
Total votes: 19

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abrahma kumar
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Young, Gifted & Black refined broad brustrokes ...

Post by abrahma kumar » 03 Jul 2007

joel wrote:You're painting with a very broad brush. I just read the story of an early Chicago jazz musician, Mezz Mezzrow, who totally adopted the language and customs of the black culture, beginning, according to his story, with black musicians he met in a "reform school", i.e. a jail for kids.
Hi joel, thanks for the feedback and link. No offence meant to anyone but the beadth of the brushstroke was deliberately wide, perhaps bordering on being ill-judged and/or indescreet, however I am not able to see how it dabbed into the realms of Mezz Mezzrow? Can you help me out, please? Thanks.

The uninformed attempt to put figure on the extent to which black, gay,0 anybodies face issues of intolerance from within the heterosexual black family was crude but i am positive real. Has anybody come across any reputable social studies of this life experience?

Part of what is interwoven in the subtext of those couple of posts is the relevance or otherwise of 'racial-stereotypes' and the challenges/opportunities that these present, if any, when pursuing a certain kind of spiritual lifestyle.

And perhaps to continue in the spirit of thought provocation: Is the sort of world occupied by the talanted creative soul slightly different from that of the man-in-the-street? Is it a given that we will see exceptions to some social norms in the attitudes of artistes due to the very fact that the artiste is endeavoring to live at the cutting edge of the human soul's life expression?

Given my curiousity re: things musical, thought was to do a little rummaging around on the basis of Joel sharing a little about Mezz Mezzrow and noticed as quoted below which may provide an insight into one sociolgist's view of the 'world occupired by the creative soul:
Sociologist Robert Stebbins defines the jazz community as a status group in which social differentiation occurs at two levels: within the community at large and within the status group. Within the status group are core and peripheral institutions. The core institutions are jazz jobs, jam sessions, after-hours social life, the musicians' union, and cliques of musicians who refer jobs to each other. Peripheral institutions are the musician's family and commercial music jobs. Over the years, the jazz community has distinguished itself from the community at large by a variety of distancing techniques that help maintain the integrity of the group, including use of a private slang, specific modes of dress, drug use, and other eccentric behavior.

All of this may underline some of what Joel shared. Thanks again for starting me off on another learning experience.

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Not even 1 in 10

Post by abrahma kumar » 08 Jul 2007

Yes, that's right the BBK population does not amount to even amount to 1 in 10 of the organisation's student population.

So how does it feel to have found God and yet still remain a 'minority' (in the broadest sense of the word)? When in the gathering have ever looked around at all those bharatwasis and wondered how on earth you are going get a lickle squeeze in heaven with all those less black bodies "in the queue" ahead of you? Would thoughts of that sort be body conscious?

And all the Krishha, Durga, Dharamraj talk, how alien was that to you when you first came across it? Does your mind glaze over when you read that stuff or do you make extra effort to understand the 'lessons' contained in those references?

Anyone care to share on how the Murli taps into your black-skinned experience of life? And how do you plug the Murli into your black-skinned experience of life? What is there about Raja Yoga that serves to lessen your attachment to the sense of identity you take from the fact that you are a soul in black body?

I am trying to improve my forum experience by practicing to ask open questions, sort of like in that Appreciative Inquiry oblox that the BKs were featuring as part of their outreach programs sometime back. Can anyone say if AI is still in vogue amongst the BKs?

Oh, and BTW whatever happened to that group En Vogue? (trust abe to go off on a musical tangent!).

Om Shanti
Not even I in 10, a statistic, a reminder in a world that doesn`t care.
Come on BBKs!

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i in 10

Post by abrahma kumar » 17 Jul 2007

The earlier discussion about Human Variation was followed up by this discussion about Distribution of Blood Types.

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I know you'll find it hard to believe that I am ...

Post by abrahma kumar » 18 Jul 2007

The words that make up the subject of this post are taken from the lyrics of a song entitled Steppin' Out as performed by Steel Pulse. Initially, gathering these thoughts under the subject: "Coming Out" (the reason may become apparent later) felt a good idea but on reflection that title seemed too upfront. And so came the idea of: "Steppin Out" as one with a bit more "street-cred" 8). But although Steppin' Out ticked many more boxes than Coming Out, my crazily creative mind sent me another signal. Abek, it said, we both know that there is nothing co-incidental in life, so why not go check out the lyrics to the Steel Pulse song and see what you find? Everything clicked into place as soon as i read: "I know you'll find it hard to believe that I am ..."

Earlier on in this topic i made a passing remark based on a title of a a UB40 song and as I write this post i see that feedback to the question: "Do you find yourself in this birth as a BK / ex-BK soul in black body?" reflects exactly a 1 in 10 ratio so I felt that is was sort of confession time. Yes, I am black and I am (have been?) a BK so it is with heavy irony that i titled this post I know you'll find it hard to believe that I am ... because I can imagine that a number of forum readers may have been wondering not only whether Abrahma Kumar is a soul in black body but also whether he would ever feel it appropriate to stick his hand up and say aye. You knew all along didnt you? Talk about hiding in plain sight.

This topic started with a snippet from a post in which 2 questions were asked: "abe, ... are you black bodied, and if so, how black?" The first i have now answered definitively. The answer to the 2nd is a work in progress because it digs a bit more beneath the surface of one's skin. If pressed on the reason why i had not answered before the answer i will give is: i was not ready.

I recollect an interview in which a black person responded to a question about what he HAD TO DO NEXT with the words: WHAT I HAVE TO DO IS STAY BLACK TILL I DIE (what a beauty, methinks). But seriously, considering that our aim is to remain soul conscious just how black can a student of the BKWSU or any of the organisation's reflected here be? Or should that be just how black can a student of the BKWSU or any of the organisation's reflected here remain?

If we cease being black or white once we are BKs what happens to this sense of identity that resonates with the cultural influences of colour or race (and i note that a simple black or white distinction can either leave billions of human beings in a 'colour-limbo' or lump billions of humans in a colour category that they themselves may not wish to be in!) Ah well.

In the part of the world that i reside in, my experience is that there is no overt institutionalized colour-consciousness in the BKWSU hierarchy - and please note I am not asserting that there is no institutionalized stereotyping along these lines. I simply do not know of nor have i witnessed such instances. Neither have I ever personally felt that my skin colour was a barrier to my having a relationship with Shiva. Nor has it been a impediment to my doing Godly service. In fact in so far as service is concerned I could argue that it is ALWAYS an advantage. Oh BTW I do live in a part of the world where being black is a minority status so I wonder what it is like in predominantly black national populations.

In reviewing this topic I extracted 36 questions (there are more) that a BBK might have felt inspired to feedback on. Now that my cover is blown :lol: I may have to try to share my own experiences (how BK can one get even in cyberspace!). But before signing off for today i hope you do not mind if i make a dedication to all of you folks who have become my forum buddies, without giving two hoots for the colour of the skin that i may or may not inhabit. The respect and regard is mutual, eternal and dare i say "bodiless". The song that I am mindful of is one from which I borrowed the title of this topic as per memories of the late Dr. Nina Simone and her rendition of: To be Young, Gifted and Black

Regards
AbeK
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Alright! Comin' out of the closet!

Post by malachiel » 28 Jul 2007

BBEx-BK here!!! (it felt weird typing that).

Token: yes we are, especially if you're surrounded with WBBk. Token of a healthy community that has various members coming from different parts of the world, examples to follow. No shame here: I love my brother, he is an example to follow, but it felt as if some of it was because he is black. Like; "hey, here we have decent black folks to broaden your horizons! Come on over!" :lol:.

I remember comparing myself to either Shankar, or Krishna, and wonder what on earth I could have done to end up with such a body color (a lot of Hinduism elements are included in Raja Yoga , especially the inclusion of deities) and found myself reading the Baghavad-Gita before long ... I was reincarnated from there ... Which one could I be? I couldn't possibly be Ravan ... :lol:

Oh, and, by the way, I would appreciate people with dark skin body (including Indians) and african people to participate as well (all colours). Do you feel like you are more "impure" or did they make you feel so when you received the knowledge, making references to your skin color, karma, origins, deities and so on?

Ex-I: Yes, in the center, the only music allowed is Bk-related music. Music done by BKs, Indian music, meditation music (with birds and waves). oh, and maybe Bette Middler's "The Rose". That's about it. It took my brother's intervention for popular music to enter the center (as long as it was neutral, or related to peace), because people were complaining the music was redundant. All that for the sake of renouncing old sanskars.

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Re: Alright! Comin' out of the closet!

Post by fluffy bunny » 28 Jul 2007

malachiel wrote:Oh, and, by the way, I would appreciate people with dark skin body (including Indians) and african people to participate as well (all colours). Do you feel like you are more "impure" or did they make you feel so when you received the knowledge, making references to your skin color, karma, origins, deities and so on?
Yes, we should do a 7 Day Course or translate a Murli into Rasta or Ebonics ...

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Re: Alright! Comin' out of the closet!

Post by malachiel » 28 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:Yes, we should do a 7 Day Course or translate a Murli into Rasta or Ebonics ...
Yoyoyo, wazzup X-Beekaaayyyys!!! (crowd cheering) Madhuban represent! Allright! What we got here is the xclusive, #one sellin s**t straight from New York: the 7 day course for gettin' out of the BeeKaayydom-s**t. You had yo fill of doin service, cookin' up tolis and stuff, o' ya jest got sick and tired of wakin up 4 effin o'clock in da mornin to watch a tiny shizzle up the wall???? This is da s**t you been waitin fo'!

Thank you for the inspiration. :wink: Unfortunately, English is my second language, and I am not really fluent in Ebonics ... Need help help here! :D.

PS: Even though I am making a laugh here, I know and understand that there are people that do talk like that everyday. I respect that.

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Re: Alright! Comin' out o' de closet!

Post by joel » 28 Jul 2007

malachiel wrote:You had yo fill of doin service, cookin' up tolis and stuff, o' ya jest got sick and tired of wakin up 4 effin o'clock in da mornin to watch a tiny shizzle up the wall???? This is da s**t you been waitin fo'!
Now turn it around. Could you imagine that hip street voice advocating for the BK side? Okay, it might sound like some street smart missionary tes'fying about Chris' or Allah. Maybe that hip voice would sound that same, no matta wha his sellin'.

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Re: Alright! Comin' out o' de closet!

Post by malachiel » 28 Jul 2007

joel wrote:Now turn it around. Could you imagine that hip street voice advocating for the BK side? Okay, it might sound like some street smart missionary tes'fying about Chris' or Allah. Maybe that hip voice would sound that same, no matta wha his sellin'.
It does sound the same! Whether it's hairspray, concert tickets, music, and so on. A voice comes from a person, a person is not a voice. I know that many are willing to sell anything at all, at long as it sells.

On the other side, no, I cannot imagine that voice advocating for the BK side. It goes against the image of "respectability" the want to project: teachers are not allowed to use slang, or to show familiarity or closeness with others, when they do, they are sent to do service somewhere. I haven't seen anyone using slang or Ebonics everyday go up the BK ladder. Always folks with degrees (engineers, doctors, journalists).

Ouh ... I think you're touching something, Joel.

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Re: Alright! Comin' out o' de closet!

Post by fluffy bunny » 28 Jul 2007

malachiel wrote:I haven't seen anyone using slang or Ebonics everyday go up the BK ladder. Always folks with degrees (engineers, doctors, journalists). Ouh ... I think you're touching something, Joel.
Two things; race and class.

A middle class God (some Indian ex-BK mentioned that God Shiva spoke lower middle class Hindi) with a middle class religion?

I used the word Ebonics deliberately as it is pregnant with a number of contentions. But I could have just suggest dialect such one of the Island dialects or Patois. Likewise, how far into any of the tribal languages will Gyan ever go!?! Peasants whose "karma" is too poor to have the chance of Gyan ...

In many ways BK is not that much further forward from the 300 holy buddhus (idiots) who thought they were the chosen "Divine One" and all they had to do was disappear up a hill with God Brahma and wait for Destruction and the Golden Age to come. Its laugable. Reading the old documents, they really had no conception of the rest of the world, only as far as their own backsides. Even top brass admit they had never even seen an atlas in their lives.

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they don't want us to unite

Post by alladin » 28 Jul 2007

Hi.

The last sentence in Malachiel post, "All that for the sake of renouncing old sanskars" reminded me of more than one occasion in which SS "corrected" me, showed me the party line, about bonding with BK with whom we have significant common pre-Gyani sanskar. I'll explain further.

In the "spiritual" family, we come to know many people with whom we have nothing in common, apart from Baba. To use a typical expression, people that in our lokik days, we would have never hung around with. So, when we meet BK from our tribe, we naturally feel close and comfortable to be together! Well, this closeness and sharing, I was informed, is not advisable as it is based on old, impure sanskars. So, suppose you meet a bk who has common interests with you, better avoiding her/him.

You all by now guessed why; "DIVIDE ET IMPERA" (Divide and Rule)!

Closeness and intimacy, complicity amongst members, is a potential threat to the sect and its dogmas :wink:. Boy! They were good at playing innocent and make everything sound as if designed for our "spiritual progress".

What the BKWSU promotes all the time amongst followers is aggressive competition, and ambition but, as we can observe in many other cases, they affirm the opposite. The beautiful slogan of not complaining, comparing or criticising others, is the SS in first place who encourage everyone to go against.
Bob Marley & The Wailers - Top Rankin' by: Bob Marley)
Survival

They don't want to see unite
'Cause all they want us to do is
Keep on fussing and fighting
They don't want to see us live together
I tell you all they want us to do is
Keep on killing one another

Top rankin', top rankin'
Are you skankin', are you skankin'
Top rankin', top rankin'
Are you fooling one another
When you say you wanna come together

They say the blood runs
And it runs through our lineage
And our hearts, heart of hearts divine

John sey them comin' with the truth
From an ancient time

Brotherly love, sisterly love
I feel this morning
I feel this morning
Brotherly love, sisterly love
I feel this morning

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Well. well, well just hark at the Poll feedback

Post by abrahma kumar » 28 Jul 2007

Do you find yourself in this birth as a BK / ex-BK soul in black body?
Yes 18%
No 81%
How sweet it is to see the 8% swing in the poll!
Welcome, welcome, welcome.

Maybe some clever creative type can mock up a skit in which a soul gets sent to cyperspace to check out a joint called http://www.Brahmakumaris.info and report back to tribe. Unfortunately he forgets that the primary purpose of his mission was to come right out with it. Instead of that he spends 7 months ... plotting the rising of a cyber cult in which he will claim to be Arjuna. (I am not serious just churning on a particular aspect of the drama and having a laugh at the same time.)

Now i will acquaint myself with what has been said since i was last here; but be assured, as the late Bob Marley can be heard to say in a live performance: I feelin' nice, I feelin' irie.
It is very good for the forum.

Om Shanti
954 43 28 Jul 07

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Re: they don't want us to unite

Post by fluffy bunny » 28 Jul 2007

alladin wrote:What the BKWSU promotes all the time amongst followers is aggressive competition, and ambition
But whilst talking very quietly and sweetly ...

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Post by mr green » 28 Jul 2007

Attempt at non-pc humour awaiting instant hanging :lol:.

Is it my fault you karmically chose a black vehicle to take rebirth in :lol: :lol: :lol:.

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middle class religion

Post by malachiel » 28 Jul 2007

Middle classes are eloquent enough to reach the Rich, they pay enough and are happy to provide material, sometimes houses, and they are envied by lower class. They're not too educated to compromise the teachings, and individually, they do not carry much importance ...

Once in a while, they'll pop up "true story" about a person who lived in dire straits coming to live at the center to be "blessed" with Baba's giving ... And since she lives there, she has no choice but to be perfect all the time, and do service, and so on ... She's too useful to be waisted on giving conferences elsewhere.

They're exploiting ambitions, sending them to universities and colleges. I'd really love to see how the hospital in Madhuban works out with the love-detachment or the "bodyless" issue while treating patients, especially the children and elderly, who need social interactions to remain healthy, their hygiene has to be maintained. I wanted to go there, when I was younger. They wanted me to.

People here I know about that speak patois become teachers, but that's about it! And you'd better not question them too much about The Cycle or the Advance Party ... They'll give you points of Murli, not scientific explanations. They're simply laughed at when they want to do workshops (it's like, people sit there and laugh at their mistakes or language, and they know it, but they keep at it because the want to project positive self-image (elevated karma through service), but they're still being put down. "He's not likely to go give a class elswhere, poor Chub"). It's really twisted and vicious.

And when they do something good, really good, they cannot believe it. "Wow, Chub can do something, he's not so stupid after all". That would make anybody want to become master of the world.

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