"Russia" and atheism.

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Re: "Russia" and atheism.

Post by Sach_Khand » 07 Dec 2010

Will anyone who has the chance to see the tree picture of big size in BK centre confirm my views about the flag.

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Re: "Russia" and atheism.

Post by ANU » 19 Feb 2011

Here you may listen to public declaration of faith in Russia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpO81Ono ... re=related

Theaching and spreading the message that Russia = atheism sounds absolutely crazy!

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The ahamkara and the antahkarana

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Feb 2012

I was reading for the first time about the ahamkara and the antahkarana.

In some schools of Hindu philosophy, I understand that the "antahkarana" refers to the totality of two levels of mind, namely buddhi (intellect) or higher mind, and manas, the middle level or levels of mind and is seen as the link between the middle and higher mind, and described as the reincarnating part of the mind.

In Vedāntic literature, the antahkaraṇa (internal organ) is also said to be organised into four parts:
  • Ahamkāra (ego) — the part that identifies the Atman (the Self) with the body as 'I'),

    Buddhi (intellect) — the part that controls decision taking
    Manas (mind) — the part that controls sankalpa (will or resolution)
    Chitta (memory) — the part that deals with remembering and forgetting
Immediately, I saw the parallels to the much simplified BKWSU teaching of man, buddhi and sanskars (mind, intellect and sansakars).

Ahaṃkāra is said to be related to ego and egoism, and the identification or attachment of one's ego. Ahaṃ meaning the Self and kāra refering to the concept of "any created thing".

"Ego" and attachment are terms which Western BKs use quite often and have their own meanings for. It is commonly used in Hindi Brahma Kumarism?

Which Hindi words are being translated for these terms and when were these concepts introduced into Brahma Kumarism? Could they have just be taken and simplified from traditional sources?

The old Sindhis I spoke to were not of the opinion that Lekhraj Kripalani was particularly educated either generally or in religion. Was he known to have studied other material during his time with the BKs? Did they read the vedas?

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Re: The ahamkara and the antahkarana

Post by sita » 07 Feb 2012

I am not an expert. I think ahamkara means aham means self and kara means one that does, so ahamkara is self-factor, self-doer. I think it is tha same as ahankar that is taken as one of the 5 vices, but philosophically ahamkara, i think, does not have this negative conotation of ego or pride or arrogance, but just this peculiarity of creation some space or something that is called the self through which other matters like mind are excercised. Ahamkara is used, i believe in comparison to the idea of atman and brahman as the true self and the ahamkara is like some creation.

Traditionally, i think, mind/mannas and intellect/buddhi are believed to be evolutional essences of matter (prakriti) and there is the purush, or pure self or whatever. Purush is said to reflect itself through the mind when it is sato/pure. Purush is the chaitanyata - counsiousnessness. This is translated as livingness and is connected to Sat-Chit-Anand. Lord Chaitanya as the Krisna consciousness people call it also comes from this. Chaytanyata cannot be said to be attribute to purush, but the purush itself, and the example given is that one cannot say "the head of Rahu", when Rahu is ony a head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahu

Chitta is consiousness (note the difference between chitta/consiousness (it is like an object and instrument) and chaytanyata/consiousnessness), it is the instrument for purush to see itself, it is also said to be matter/prakritti. It is also used the therm chitta-vritti. Vritti is also used in BK terms as attitude.

Vritty is the form of the existence of consiousness, like memory, imagination, knowledge, dream are forms of existance of the consiousness/chitta. From vritty it comes pravritti and nivritti, meaning activated vritti or disactivated vritti. In BK terms it is used pravritti marg and nivritti marg(path) relating to the path of household and the so called sanyassi path.

In the Yoga sutra of Patanjali, Yoga is defined as chitta vritti nirodha. Nirodha means supressing, supressin the formations/modifications of the consiousness. Nirodha can be also said to be the term nirvana. In PBK nirvana is explained as above speech (Vani/speach se pare/above)- nir - the prefix meaning "with no" or "above" like in nir-akar (non-material) nir-vikar (non-viscious), nor-vichar (without thinking) and Vani that is speech.

Antahkarana (internal organ of peception) is said about manas/mind.

Samskars, i think can be related to vritti or the forms the consisousness takes. Somewhere they may be called vasanas and somehow maybe they excersise some influence to ahamkara and are causes for sankalps/thoughts.

Interesting is also the idea of so called burning of sanskaras and reaching the stage of nirman chitta, that i would speculate and relate to the nir-no man-mind position of the consioousness or the aman (no mind) or nirakar stage. There exista also traditionally the idea about karma being black, white and neutral.

I think on ones attempt to trace how different terms were imported or introduced in the BK terminology and how they are related to the so called Hindu terminology, one has to have in mind that it seems that the Hindu religion is very synthetic, there are many texts, traditions, terms, and interpretations, different theories use different therminology, but also make relations to one another, so it is a whole big mess in itself so adding the BK terminology and usage of terms is just where these belong. Defining the slang, and explaining different points is in itself creating a whole new system on its own. One has to also notice that whilst sanskrit and Hindi are somehow close and related but many terms are also incorporated from other languages and traditions where they have been creted or developed (like for eg in Buddhism) and sometimes they just may be meant to mean the same, but the difference of the term may result in some twist in the meaning. It is said the limits of my language are the limits of my world.

If one sees the BK religion, cosmology, theology and philosophy as simplified Hindu with some changes, maybe the similarity is that although there is refining and changing within it in itself, one has to see that the attempt to present it in clear and structural way may deprive it from some of its rooths and influences in the same way as the Hindu religioun is also amorphous and any attempt to structure it is creating a new one in itself. But maybe this mechanism can also be related to other religions and even scientific knowlege also where new and new ideas are added and there are modifications, there seem to be like some one big pit in which one can throw and extract any ideas. The world have never been empty and nothing is created from scratch, nothing is born on a white paper and has some cause and effect and effort in finding the essence often leads us to the expansion of this essence, because this cycle pattern of essence leading to expantion and expantion being refine and cut to essence is the very habitual, natural and intrinsic pathern and way our mind operates. One can say that going into essence is like going into incorporeal stage and going into expantion is like churning and subtle stage. Finally there must be some meeting points of all aspects of knowledge we know and for me it is superficial trying to separate and isolate it from the environment and context in which they come to be, exist and change with the course of time.

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Re: "Russia" and atheism.

Post by sita » 08 Mar 2012

Communism was propagated as hope for the poor and uneducated people, who were slaves of the monarchic and feudal system and who were also victims of mass production that started and had no hope in life, who had to work 16 hours a day for free or few coins to sustain monarchy meaning kings. The problem that those who propagated communism became "bloody kings" themselves.
This is correct, but in the ideology of communism itself, it is there prescribed taking of power by force, through violent, bloody revolution. Also in the communistic way of life there is no highest authority, no example. The idea is that it ruins the family cell of society, because the big society is mirror image of the small society. If we take the example of this society where the rulers are like parents to people, this is like a big family where all are children, there is one mother and Father to all. The society that cannot be united as nation, family or some other common unit, it will be like in this tale where the organs of the body did not like to work, so the whole body were not able to function. Equality does not mean unification. Communism has become just the new way of unrighteous rule.

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Re: "Russia" and atheism.

Post by sita » 25 Apr 2013

Communism mixes well with China, becase it is said that atheism starts from Buddhism, and Buddhism has spread in China.

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Re: "Russia" and atheism.

Post by Narsatya » 26 Dec 2013

I would like to add something more to "Russia" and atheism:
Definition 1: Atheist are those who do not believe in soul, god, sorrow, happiness, sin, piousness, heaven, hell.
Definition 2: One who has no other corporeal on which he has faith in.
Bharat soul of Ram is atheist because no other corporeal in which he has faith, he knows what he is doing is right and doesnt care about anyone; he will be revealed as Father of atheist. He believes in just himself.

It is said in Murli: people of path of worship call you atheist because you do not do worship, and you call them atheist because they do not know Father. BKs call us atheist because we do not worship as they do; we call them Christians because their leader was Lekhraj Kirpalani who is soul of Krishna. Horoscopes of Krishna and Christians match. [We call them atheist because they do not know Father; ourselves followers of CoA Krishna alias ShivBaba.] Lekhraj Kirpalani has been said to be Lion/Lioness; this corporeal Virendra Dev Dixit/Shankar has been called Tiger. Lion attack directly face-to-face but tiger seeks opportunity to attack, holds back when time is unfavorable. Lion is not a threat to world but tiger. Lion =USA or Christian, tiger = Russia.

Those who fight among themselves are called atheist or orphans. Orphans do not get inheritance. In Murli it is said see how these christians keep fighting among themselves.

If you come in bodyconsciousness then atheist, if you get angry then atheist. Both are applicable for Christians. Christians in the east become atheist.

Atheist never achieve kingship in the cycle, they do not come in any rosary - they are among 4th category subjects. Western powers like Germany, USA were responsible for creation of USSR also USSR was heavily influenced by the west in technology etc. They did to pull out Russia from WWI, that Lenin promised William Kaiser. West was always ahead in technology and Russia was copying even at height of atheism during regime of Stalin. They even stole know-how from Rolls-Royce in designing their indigenous fighter plane.

It was not until founding of USSR that official religion of state became atheism- state atheism was practised. Russia has more than 60% non-believers, non-practicing believers, no other country has this proportion. Communism has greatly impacted people's mentality.

About atom bombs, it the Berlin experiment of 1936 that is regarded as starting point for Atomic Age. Berlin is near to Russia/ USSR. Anyway every European nation was desperate in inventing this technology. Russia too was involved in later 30s, but it abandoned for other practical fields. But soon when there was noise all over the Europe, Russian scientists started switching fields. Idea has come from Russia though the USA together with Britain, Canada implemented it practically.

Capitalism is in spirit of Christianity - capitalism gives sense of responsibility towards the society, decreases corruption since worker is answerable to capitalist. But if it is state Capitalism like USSR, there is no difference state and person - it is not my property, your property, it is our property and stealing state tubelights wont be a problem, shoplifting from stateowned store too. This is because class system is done away with. If all were considered equal like doctor and a bus driver; high-school teacher who is well educated but poor that he gets his ration from his farms in village then who will work? Communist themselves portray god as a capitalist. It is according to our knowledge.

For more information, read: http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/books/ ... odless.htm,

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Re: "Russia" and atheism.

Post by sita » 26 Dec 2013

So Veerendra Dev Dixit, or Shiva Baba through Veerendra Dev Dixit, equates the "Divine Right to rule" and a nation having royal families with theism? A bit strange given so many royal families worldwide got there on the basis of murdering off other royal families, or members thereof. (A memorial of the Confluence Age, I suppose ...).
Possibly, the rule of kingdom is related to religion still from the times the ruler was regarded as God. There is also similarity in the structure that there is only one at the top. Chirts also has been speaking about kingdom of heaven, but it is also possible that the term kingdom is just used as a synonym of country or land.

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Re: "Russia" and atheism.

Post by Narsatya » 27 Dec 2013

In atheism of Russia there is no limit on marriages as He too told for Christians there is no limit of marriages that is why they dominate the world in population of 2billion. Do you know in Murlis it has been said there are 1.5-2billion Christians. So .5billion atheist of Russia. He once told when atheists come asia comes out of ocean. Every religion has portion of atheists. I do not see a reason as to asia comes w atheists as Jammu dvip or prehistoric India was already there and that too was in Asia. I do not think Lenin and Stalin had many wives in legal manner. Even Torsky had 2 wives. May be whomever he spends night together is wife. Like that many are possible. I had once given a link by PRI on Moscow's demographic crisis and negative population growth. Alexey Komov describes about condition of Russia during USSR period. Divorce, abortions very very common. To have sex was like drink of water. Really that cheap. Lenin made this constitution. Only institution of marriages were court marriages. They(couple) have to sign legal document.

Alexey says such things started when Russians in big numbers started going to space - atheism or communist liberalist ideas to revolutionize whole sort of life prevailed unfortunately. So familty system was totally destroyed. Children were brought up in govt houses, etc, etc as this Sakar describes though nothing much about atheists or communists have come in Murlis narrated through Lekhraj Kirpalani.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d302W7nRycQ

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Re: "Russia" and atheism.

Post by Narsatya » 14 Jan 2016

http://wol.jw.org/hi/wol/d/r108/lp-hi/102000128

द रशियन ट्रैजडी—द बर्डन ऑफ हिस्ट्री किताब कहती है: “रशियन ऑर्थोडॉक्स चर्च ने कभी-भी बाइबल को अहमियत नहीं दी।” रूसी धर्म-विद्वान स्यिरग्ये ईवायेनका कहता है कि “ऑर्थोडॉक्स चर्च के सदस्यों को बाइबल का बिलकुल भी ज्ञान नहीं है। इस वज़ह से वे अंधविश्वासों, तंत्र-मंत्र और जादू पर उन लोगों से कहीं ज़्यादा विश्वास करते हैं जो इस चर्च के सदस्य नहीं हैं।”

रूस के मशहूर लेखक टॉलस्टॉय ने भी यही कहा: “मुझे पूरा यकीन है कि [रशियन ऑर्थोडॉक्स] चर्च की शिक्षाएँ झूठी, कपट-भरी और नुकसान पहुँचानेवाली हैं और उसके सदस्यों इन शिक्षाओं को सीखकर जो करते हैं उससे साफ ज़ाहिर है कि उन्हें अंधविश्वास और जादू-टोने के सिवा और कुछ आता ही नहीं। ये सब बातें मसीही शिक्षाओं के सच्चे अर्थ को पूरी तरह छिपा देती हैं।”

ऐसे हालात की वज़ह से ही, इन जगहों पर सोवियत साम्यवाद को बढ़ावा मिला, जो नास्तिकता का प्रचार करता था और जिसका कहना था, “धर्म लोगों के लिए एक नशा है।” लेकिन, कुछ समय के बाद साम्यवाद ही एक किस्म का धर्म बन गया जिसे ‘रेड रिलिजन’ कहा जाता था। मगर यह धर्म ज़्यादा देर तक टिक नहीं सका

नास्तिकवाद के आधारमूर्त और बीज लेनिन से पहले भी रही होगी जो अपना प्रभाव डाला होगा।

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102000128

Yet, the Russian Orthodox Church, like the Roman Catholic Church, has kept people in ignorance of the Bible.

"The Bible", explains the recent book, 'The Russian Tragedy—The Burden of History', "has never been a principal part of Russian Orthodoxy." The result, according to Russian religious scholar Sergei Ivanenko, is that “the lack of Bible knowledge of Orthodox believers has led to the fact that many parishioners of Orthodox churches are more susceptible to the influence of superstitions, occultism, and magic, than unbelievers.”

The famous Russian writer Tolstoy made a similar observation. He wrote: “I am convinced myself that the doctrine of the [Russian Orthodox] church was in theory a cunning and harmful deceit, and in practice a collection of the grossest superstitions and sorcery, which completely conceals the whole meaning of the Christian teaching.”

This situation proved to be a fertile ground for the rise of Soviet Communism with its atheistic propaganda and well-known refrain: “Religion is the opium of the people.” Yet, Communism itself soon became a form of religion, often called the Red Religion.

Russians were atheists even before communism. Their religion built ground for communism.

Seeds and roots of atheism may have existed even before Lenin who may have exerted their influence.

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Re: "Russia" and atheism.

Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Jan 2016

That website is by the Jehovah Witnesses. You don't think that, perhaps, they have their own agenda to discredit the Orthodox Church to promote their own cult ... or that, perhaps, other political agendas flow through them, e.g. American values?

You don't think that the Russian people had their own, older - shamanistic folk religions before Christianity came along and was stuck on top of them by the aristocracy to control them?

You don't think centuries of oppression of the lower classes by the authoritarian Tsarist regime, WWI and the poverty and exploitation of the masses, the wealth and indulgence of the aristocracy, and the workers being shot by the Tsar's troops had anything to do with it?

We talk about Petrograd (Saint Petersburg) but a census from that time showed there were an average of sixteen people sharing each apartment, with six people per room, no running water, and piles of human waste in the street. Workers worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week and were at great risk. It would have been like a Mumbai slum ... but freezing cold in the Winter. Food shortages were common.

Then forced conscription swept the unwilling to fight a World War they had no interest in, and were horrifyingly slaughtered, for the sake of internal politics.

The clergy served political interests of Nicholas II, projecting him as a saintly and infallible Father to his people, granted by Divine Right, while refusing to allow progressive reforms. The people just wanted democracy and reasonable lives. What Marx actually wrote was (paraphrased),
The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man ...

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

... The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.
The complete quote is on the internet.

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Re: "Russia" and atheism.

Post by Narsatya » 15 Jan 2016

This means their kings were not given the right knowledge by their Orthodox church and patriarch. They had to pay the price for choosing wrong leaders.

There were good tsar's as well, like Peter i, Alexander ii, Elisabeth.

Protestants are better than Catholic or Orthodox.

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