Hi, I am new & would greatly appreciate some guidance

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Post by paulkershaw » 13 Jun 2007

Dear Andrey

You need many prolonged visits to a highly skilled psychologist. You lack insight, clarity and your heart is cold. A doctor may make you more of a human and less of a machine. How dare you write such garbish to a person who is obviously doing her best considering the circumstances she finds herself in :x.

Dear Di

Way to go! - I am proud of the way you've handled everything and consider you more spiritual and have better values than many others, and its beautiful that you don't let people like Andrey talk down to you. You deserve much better but the reality is that this situation is real, just as you have stated, and we can all see how you are dealing with it, with your usual honesty and integrity - I personally had to read Andrey's posting a good few times myself as I couldn't believe what he's written. He's really showing you what the doctrine and dogma of being a Bk/PBK is all about as he SIMPLY CANNOT understand anything else. Please don't allow him to disturb you anymore, :D.

To all:

I wish to be clear in saying that whilst I welcome most/all viewpoints I don't see how its possible anyone can accept what Andrey has written (I am so sure he's bonkers!). As far as I am concerned his approach is demeaning, disgusting and undeserved.

This forum is titled: "BrahmaKumaris.Info offering Mutual Support and Independent Discussion". Andrey is neither mutually supportive nor offers independent discussion and I for one will continue to treat him with the disdain he deserves :roll:.

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Post by andrey » 13 Jun 2007

Dear Di,

To interfere in one's personal life is not good. You have made it public. I have been reading and liked to present a different point of view. Please, excuse me if i have hurt your feelings. I don't know you nor your husband, but we should maintain our honour to one another.

You have come to know familly life is not possible within the BK because someone has told you so here. However there are many practical examples where it is seen that it is possible. You also use: lies, sexual assaults, covering etc all things you have numbered here, because you have come to know they exist from here, because here they are presented in a condensed form. It is not about this. These are exceptions and are very rare exceptions. No one is happy with them. These things can happen always and everywhere because the world is like this. BK familly is not immune to these.

It is very funny game. BKs think they are superior, now we think we are superior, because we lack this sense of superiority.

By "obey husband", i mean, "get along with". It is said about this Mahabhatara War that it is the war of the home. It starts at home. It is as if each home is a kingdom, and now there is a rule of democracy in each house. Each one is different. One likes something, have some ideas; other likes something else, other ideas. There are quarrels now in every house between husband and wife.

Of course, they are equal partners. Everyone values familly and will be happy to see a perfect familly where there is harmony. We are here also a familly, not officially, but we spend a lot of time together. We are here 10-12 persons and how many groups we are divided into, even not officially, between ourselves already likes and dislikes arise. I would just like we can live together well even with our enemies the BKs.

Dear brother Paul,

There are various souls in the world we may have to relate to and have to do with equal vision. Why should one be less then someone else?

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Post by abrahma kumar » 13 Jun 2007

paulkershaw wrote:I wish to be clear in saying that whilst I welcome most/all viewpoints I don't see how its possible anyone can accept what Andrey has written (I am so sure he's bonkers!). As far as I am concerned his approach is demeaning, disgusting and undeserved. This forum is titled: "BrahmaKumaris.Info offering Mutual Support and Independent Discussion". Andrey is neither mutually supportive nor offers independent discussion and I for one will continue to treat him with the disdain he deserves. :roll:
Hi, there is something I'd like to share, and I hope that you bear with me although it may sound crazy. Every now and then, when reading some posts on ths forum i get overcome by a strange 'invaded' & 'abused' sort of feeling. In my vocabulary, I term the sensation as having been "spooked". It is as if a malign energy emnates from the post and seeps into my psyche, leaving me feeling slightly disoriented and 'tongue-tied'. I have had this discomforting experience today. Not only having read THAT post but a few others as well.
Does anyone think it possible for feelings of latent and/or passionate ill-will to be intentionally seeded, but subtley camoflaged, in a post? Am I mad!

To get back on topic and to express my opinion in as few words as possible. I agree with paulkershaw but i go a little further. Everyone is free to do as they wish. The puiblic does not get a chance to witness BK/PBK/Vishnu Party oblox being stripped of its sugar-coating.

In the wrong hands, this stuff is dangerous. I am certain that the organisations represented here are not the only ones with aspects and philosophies that contribute to the routine, ritualistic, commercial and sanctified abuse of human beings; but they pass it off as attaining spiritual enlightenment.
This forum is titled: "BrahmaKumaris.Info offering Mutual Support and Independent Discussion".

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Post by paulkershaw » 13 Jun 2007

andrey wrote:There are various souls in the world we may have to relate to and have to do with equal vision. Why should one be less than someone else?
Exactly! You have no problem with treating people like pawns in a stupid game that you're trying to (even more stupidly) direct.

You treat most people as less than you ... and you deserve all the critical comments directed at you, of which there are many on this forum, and you hardly ever take notice of. Your only concern is that we must all listen to you. And then you convince yourself that your vision is equal. It is not.

Your approach is one of superiority and it is demeaning. We all have a viewpoint, that is why we are here in this forum, because we care but you can only hit us all with Gyani points. That is all you have. Many of us have all been in Gyan fro many years and we all taught this knowledge, as far as I am concerned there is nothing Godly or spiritual in your approach one iota. You are NOT a nice person.

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Post by paulkershaw » 13 Jun 2007

Abek wrote:Hi, there is something I'd like to share, and I hope that you bear with me although it may sound crazy. Every now and then, when reading some posts on ths forum I get overcome by a strange 'invaded' & 'abused' sort of feeling. In my vocabulary I term the sensation as having been "spooked". It is as if a malign energy emnates from the post and seeps into my psyche, leaving me feeling slightly disoriented and 'tongue-tied'. I have had this discomforting experience today. Not only having read THAT post but a few others as well. Does anyone think it possible for feelings of latent and/or passionate ill-will to be intentionally seeded, but subtley camoflaged, in a post? Am I mad!
Dear ABK;

You're not crazy. These things happen many times; either intentionally or not. There are many books on psychic self defence which will assist you a great deal. I can pm you some info too if you feel the need. Did you know there are supposedly cases of people being psychically poisoned with the 'spit' used on the back of a postage stamp?

I could suggest that you perhaps learn how to take care of these things remembering of course of your earlier reminder that we're all fearless on this forum! Its my experience that when one begins to perceive these things then one is ready for the next step of the journey ... Brother in Arms stuff again but not in dire straits OK?

With light xx p xx

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Post by bansy » 13 Jun 2007

Di,

I would like to apologise on behalf of Brother Andrey on his rather insensitive remarks made, forgive him for such shortcomings. At the same time I hope you can also forgive yourself for all the hardships that have been put up, move forward as well as you can and maintain respect in your future. There is much love in you to still give to others.

Andrey Bhai,

I would like to apologise on behalf to Di for her inability to understand the situations of the BKs and forgive her for her misunderstandings as she has not been a BK. At the same time I hope you can also forgive yourself, maintain respect by contributing valuable and relevant sharings of points that you are definitely capable of but which have not struck accord with all forum members.

I also need to forgive myself for being part of a forum that has many indifferences but to allow myself to learn from my own mistakes and shortcomings as well as those from others.

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Post by di » 13 Jun 2007

Such wisdom, yet again Bansy.

I am afraid that questioning my integrity or motivations does not sit well with me. I do understand as well that Andrey's native tongue is not English and as it can be such a complex language that any slight change of phrasing can infer a very different meaning.

Your balanced and forgiving guidence is highly valued Bansy. Thank you. I have to disagree with you on one point though. There is nothing that I can see that you would ever need forgiveness for in your participation on this forum. You have always been a grounded source of wisdom and peace in my eyes.

Andrey, thank you for clarifying what you were saying. It is impossible to have harmony in a home when one of you doesn't want to be there. You both start off in the same kingdom with the same dreams, goals and values. If one party changes and no longer wishes to be with you, there really isnt much you can do to have harmony. Believe me, I have done everything to sustain this family unit.

It was predicted the two aren't compatible. And my life, and subsequent destruction of my marriage, is not due to what is written in this forum ... I was just forewarned. As I forewarned him and was told by him it was rubbish. Then this 'rubbish' came out of his mouth a few months later, and he has not ever seen this forum. He refused to even look.

It is only possible to turn yourself inside out so far in order to accommodate a persons changed outlook. I assure you, I did everything to cater to his wants for his new lifestyle.
Fact is my very existance was a increasing problem to him. We had an exceptionally close and strong bond. He could not obey BK teachings and be with me. If he was aware of this 8 months ago, there is no way on this earth he would have forsaken me, he would have renounced the BKs. Hence my new demand. Full disclosure of the BK doctrine, teachings and possible/probable effect it has on an individual's life and their family. The BKSWU would die a very quick death I assure you.

What i have been told here is backup for what i have lived. The lies start at the front door with the first step as you go through it. It has nothing to do with this forum. This forum hasn't corrupted the BK org and is not responsible. Fact is you follow a pyramid leadership that orders these coverups etc. It is the organisation. It comes from the top. It may not be you as an individual, but this is the system that you have devoted your life to.

Unfortunately Andrey, I have noticed in you the exact same attitude that my ex has adopted and he is totally unaccepting of how he treats others. He cannot see it, as I assume you cannot either. It is insulting, dogmatic, arrogant and condescending. Nothing else is true except what you say. The mind is closed to any thought than the BK indoctrination.

I do not want to be critical of you, especially in a public arena. This is my personal experience. Possibly a more open gentler approach would be more accepting to others. I can give merit to someone who will stand by their beliefs no matter what. The only problem I have with this, are the BK beliefs truly an individuals beliefs taken in freely and without control or are they insidiously program into an ever decreasing aware individual?

This relates to what i said about the same attitude. This is not my husbands attitude to life and to others. This is something new that has developed and is the same as yourself. This would appear to me to be a 'learnt' behaviour, not who you really are. So I may seem to be personally attacking you, please understand I am not, I am attacking the programing and the loss of an individual.

You and he could be the same person. In fact, to be honest, you are the same person. You speak the same way and say the same things. What does that tell you? I really wish i could be more accepting of what you are saying to me but reality does not allow me to agree with your views. Thank you for sharing them with me.

What you are saying may have existed in 3rd world countries at the turn of previous century, but it does not and cannot effectively exist now. The whole BK thing reminds me of the Daleks from the UK serial Dr Who ... "exterminate, exterminate ...". Mechanical beings with Destruction being the driving force. A non-intelligent life force. Run by little blobs sitting inside the big metal case. All programed by the head dalek.

I found this the hardest thing to see. The man who was to grow old and die with me, dying in front of my eyes. He became a non-person, devoid of any humanity, or personality, or responsiblity, or ability to think. His spirit was suppressed and buried so deep there appears to be little or nothing of him left.

He betrayed his family. There is nothing left of that person who i respected so much. He is now a pawn in the BKs' game. I lived and breathed this Andrey. The forum did not make this up. It is my life, and it was my husband's. He once would have died rather than hurt me.

This is not spirituality but it is the core principals and teachings of your religion. This would be denied of course, but the truth will out ... this is the result no matter how much sugar you cover it up with. This is what you follow. This is who or what you become ...

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Post by fluffy bunny » 13 Jun 2007

Abek wrote:Hi, there is something I'd like to share, and I hope that you bear with me although it may sound crazy. Every now and then, when reading some posts on ths forum I get overcome by a strange 'invaded' & 'abused' sort of feeling. In my vocabulary I term the sensation as having been "spooked".
I agree with Paul. It is real and very tangible. At times it feels like a blunt instrument, a club to the head. I experience this both negatively but, thankfully, also positively. Don't ask me how but some how thoughts, emotions, mentality are able to be transfered through this digital electronic medium ... may be the posts just act as a space-time co-ordinate to pinpoint the author at the time it was written.

I do not apologies for saying this in public, but with andrey I also get a sense of a heavy sadness/grieving ... or something close to that. Am I wrong? I do feel these discussion upset him deeply.

Andrey cannot, and may be should not, apologise for what he has written because it is honest and true ... Honestly to what the BKs, but moreso mainstream PBKs, think. I would say this, in my observations on this forum, that the PBKs are more traditionally Hindu than the BKs by a long way both with regards male female relationships but also politics ... e.g his/Virendra Dev Dixit's grist with democracy and human rights. He has voiced this opinion before, I presume it is based on Shrimat because he is generally quite accurate on what Shrimat is and he is a good scholar of the Murlis and clarifications.

I have not gone into it great details. Bear in mind that it might still have some relevence and relationship to the rural India it is rooted it where life is cheap, the landlords have power of life and death over others, there is no law, and women are either wives, widows or prostitutes ... but one way or another owned and need protected at most times by a man. For the most part the PBKs, and certainly Virendra Dev Dixit, have still not had to evolve through exposure to The West. Ditto, liberal Westerners have little idea of how retarded things are.

We should get Virendra Dev Dixit out of India sometime and let him see what things are like! May be send him to a real university to study history. What is his sexual history? It seems kind of racy and controversial to me? Can we discuss it here? As for you, Andrey, you ought to get out and enjoy some of the pleasures of Western Europe to see how good democracy, liberalism, and socialism can actually be. Stand on your own two feet. Or if you have real social and personal problems, be open with us about them so we can apologise and help you.

I am sorry to be personal andrey, but you deserve this for the **** that you came up with this time. What, tell us ... you are a man-child with no responsibilities, who still lives at home, who has never lived in or near a PBK community ... what do you know!?!

There is something else going on here that I am only just getting a subtle whiff of ... and that some PBKs' defence of the BKs and BKWSU rather than the severe facing of the objective truth that is necessary in such situations. Personally, I have seen, heard and know too many terrible incidents that mirror and even overshadow Di's experience ... MANY, MANY TIMES over.

It is a typical statement of the BKWSU ... "Oh, it is just a minority of cases ... many have taken benefit ... there are no statistics to suggest such a thing" etc. Of course, there are "there are no statistics" ... on the first hand, they wont allow researchers to do such research; on the other hand, BKs are no honest to Shudras. It is as simple as that. BKs would never tell the truth.

In my experience. the breakdown of relationships ratio is probably 95 to 99% plus ... give us some couples, any couples, as examples to talk to. May be in India, where there are different sexual mores and Gyan is closer to Bhakti is lower ... but I would want to know. Do the husbands go off and use prostitutes or what?

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Post by paulkershaw » 14 Jun 2007

andrey wrote:There are quarrels now in every house between husband and wife.
Further to your posting Andrey, I'd also appreciate you understanding and acknowledging that there are also squabbles and quarrels within every BK centre and household too, but not knowing any PBK 'families' I cannot say whether this occurs with them or not. However, it seems to be human nature to do so and I would surmise that this happens within the PBK setup too.

I, personally, know of many instances where BKs do not get along and are quarreling, all in the name of being more powerful than the other. It happens.

So, if we choose a "non-Gyani" family or a 'BK Family' to live amongst, there are still problems of this nature and in my experience the quarrels within the BK family are often even greater, just covered up in a simmering and an "I'll pretend I am OK manner" because "I am a detached soul" - the damage can truly run deeply. I know of cases where centres were closed because of in-house BK fighting ...

Its not really accurate to tell us that the BK family path is any different to the normal family way of living in terms of this type of thing.

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Post by andrey » 14 Jun 2007

Dear brother Paul,

Please understand that I am also an individual with a right to express my own view, whether it is due to my own churning or somthing i have learnt and like to share. I can express this in the way i feel appropriate and if someone feels supressed by it then please tell me because what i should do is to change something. Why do i need to control others or make them listen to me? I don't believe i can bring heaven on earth, you see ... who creates a difference? Am i not one of you?

Just because i share points of knowledge does it make me superior or inferior, or a certain point of view. This is what i believe, why shoul it be problem for anyone. If people are hurt than this is not for hurting people. It is said mutual support, mutual means to give and to receive, then if there is no support for me - the forum should be closed or the title changed.

Of course there are quarrels in the PBK family, you can even see here on the forum. We believe it is a mirror world to the whole world in a smaller form. That's why i believe that on a small form, if we can achive harmony then this will affect the bigger world.

In the BK, things are put on a common ground. This is needed. There is no loss in letting go of one's own beliefs to adopt some common belief if it will create unity. Otherwise, if everyone has his own opinion, he thinks I am the best on my own with whatever i have inside, no one has it, it is only my own unique feeling etc. The other way everything (the cards) is put on the table. People are unique anyway. If you put them on a common ground their uniqueness will just emerge, it will not dissapear.

Dear brother ex-l,

Of course i feel heavy with all the sorrow here and everywhere. I am not so strong that i can tolerate and accomodate everything, and some things affect me. But i know we make things big or small and i feel problems are made big, so we should better make something good big instead. But it is for sure that i don't like the world as it is and try to escape it every moment, why should you give me the advice to dive in it? Yes, this way may be accounts will finish quickly, but it is exactly the issue that some are happy and enjoy the world, and others are unhappy and want it other way. As if you are happy with what you are and where you live in.

Regarding the Western rule of democracy and the world as it is now, i remember first time i was travelling and saw rich houses. They were full with everything. There were cars, there were garden but even from the window of the bus one can see these are very empty houses, full of objects and empty to feelings. Here also it becomes the same; houses like fortresses with nothing to protect inside.

I believe that social life is first place family life, that's why I am very sceptical of official organisations. If one socializes with friends or mind-alikes better he can socialize with his family, then i suppose this man has jump over something and will have to get back to fullfill some duty.

I think the problems about the BKs that are related here comes mainly from this lack of family feeling; that she is my sister not that she is appointed from the top, she receives a salary, clothing and food for free from the org, she can travel etc, but she is my sister like my sister at home. He is my brother, not because we use the term of brother in this community, but he is my brother because we have one and the same Father we know both. It is said all the world are BK. Indeed the sense of organization-like programmes, activities in organized way adds little to this feeling still inside, these feelings of i can get along with this one better that with that one also are formed.

Dear di,

things that happen to you happen to everyone even without the BK finger in it. People get along well then this stops.

I don't know what is family life. I have had relationships and was always shocked how can we love each other today and stop loving one another tommorow, how can the relationship end and why? I was not able to understand how peole can love each other and quarrel with each other. It is even accepted that it is the way now, that it is normal. Yes, it has become normal but it should not be like this. People change. We can also change for the better.

I also feel in this world perfect ways are very difficult, but the circumstances only encourage the happenings that we don't like. I feel a match, a couple, relationship is the first and foremost, normal need for a person, but how is it understood nowadays? Schools, universities where boys and girls mix together, look at each other, they become places for the greatest corruption. There relationships are formed and broken at a click of the fingers. Discos, cafes, people go there only in search of prey.

Go shopping and you'll go flirting with the salesman. It is such a dirty world. It is said Father has an eye for the daughter, teacher for the student etc. But there is the other side that the more one becomes expert and experienced in this, the better. See also the hymn of the university that says; "let's enjoy whilst we are young, everything comes to and end". What is meant by it? It all comes with the conciousness of the body, that I am this body and i finish.

I can remember that sexual drive and sexual life was not that powerful some 15 years back. We have become influenced by the propaganda of the tv, magazines and the way of life and have started to think that this is the way it is normal and cannot realize it is bad influence. Don't tell your classmates you have never been with a girl - they will laugh at you, but if you tell you are not interested, they will take you to a doctor. OK, maybe he is just interested to have one wife and stay with her till the rest of his life and he thinks he is bit too young to think about it now, but if he manages he should be put in a museum as rare species.

Man and woman also mix their role in the familly. Woman has become like man, stronger then man. She earns more, owns the home and feeds the man. The man has to please her, then she complains he is weak. She is after a carreer, for her her boss have more credibility she obeys him more than his husband. Yes, obey. I mean there are some such weak females, they know their weakness is their power, they cannot think for themselves and need a powerful man, they ask him about everything. They like to put themselves lower then him. Then he will try to put them on the highest place he can, definitely higher than himself.

If the woman tries to dominate both are not happy. If she does not surrender to him and makes him responsible, how can he be responsible? She does not ask him for anything. They are definitely equal partners but their roles are definitely different too. A kingdom means rule of one. It is said that the king issues the orders but the actual rule is done by the queen (in the familly).

Also about the language problem ... it is a very big problem in the world. One can see the face but strange language, strange words emerge from the mouth. It also becomes instrumental for division.

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Post by katie » 14 Jun 2007

Good for you Di,

WELLL SAID !!!

I couldnt of put it better myself !!

You are NOT i REPEAT NOT to blame,, I was almost in the same boat myself, who know I may still end up there, just waiting !!!!

GO GIRL !!!

Thinking of you
love always
K xx

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Post by paulkershaw » 14 Jun 2007

Hi Katie
Welcome back! I was wonderin'
xx
P

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Post by abrahma kumar » 14 Jun 2007

andrey wrote:Please understand that I am also an individual with a right to express my own view, whether it is due to my own churning or somthing I have learnt and like to share. I can express this in the way I feel appropriate and if someone feels supressed by it then please tell me because what I should do is to change something. why do I need to control others or make them listen to me. I don't believe I can bring heaven on earth, you see...who creates a difference. Am I not one of you. Just because I share points of knowledge does it make me superiour or inferiour, or a certain point of view. This is what I believe, why should it be problem for anyone. If people are hurt than this is not for hurting people. It is said mutual support, mutual means to give and to receive, then if there is no support for me - the forum should be closed or the title changed.
andrey Bhai, I sincerely hope that this forum will not be closed, and I hold this view whether or not you or I feel that the forum fails to provide the support we imagine it should. However, notwithstanding that viewpoint of mine, I also acknowledge that I have certain "personality paradoxes" through which I will be able to adjust to any eventuality regarding the forum's demise or otherwise. I will accept, but I will never agitate for closure because of my not being completely satisfied with it. Can you understand this andrey Bhai?

If I read your language correctly, that you feel that the forum should be closed if there is no support for you, then I will "argue" that once again you express your feelings and needs in such a way that would restrict the rights (and dare I say needs) of others. Why? Why do you feel so strongly about this point that your wishes would in fact curtail the freedom of others to participate in ths arena whether or not the forum is an IDEAL place?

Brother I ask this question with serious sincerity and as an opportunity for me to once again to try to understand where such a mindset may be coming from and where it would lead us if ever it became a majority view.

I hope that my feedback to any of your posts has not lead to your feeling that I wished you would not post. But if that has been the case, I apologise without reservation. My main aim is to always explore, to try to understand, to delve into the workings of my own psyche as honestly as i can. But NEVER is it my intent to say to another that they should not post here. Nor do i say to the forum admin that this place is not fit for publicised purpose.

My mind seems to be far too "fluid" in nature for that sort of entrenched self-serving viewpoint to emanate from it. But am i this way because I lack moral conviction? Is moral conviction the magic ingredient that differentiates the "real Godly child" from the "Stepchild" (i know that if you have studied the Murli you may be able to consider Baba's utterances on these 2 categories of relationship between parent and child). So tell me brother what do you think?

I confess that this sharing is getting off the topic so if you feel to respond please do so in that place that I refer to as my little bolt-hole away from, but yet still part of, the forum. It would be a pleasure to talk with you on these aspects over there. Om Shanti. And so I will finish here for now. Thanks as always. And maybe someone can be inspired to return respectfully to the seed from which this entire topic bloomed: Hi, I am new & would greatly appreciate some guidance ..."

abek

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Post by paulkershaw » 14 Jun 2007

andrey wrote:Please understand that I am also an individual with a right to express my own view, whether it is due to my own churning or somthing I have learnt and like to share. I can express this in the way I feel appropriate and if someone feels supressed by it then please tell me because what I should do is to change something.
Dear Andrey Bhai

I respect all view points but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. Many people on this forum have tried telling you that too. Agree-ably its not really always about what you post but rather about how you do it.
If people are hurt than this is not for hurting people. It is said mutual support, mutual means to give and to receive, then if there is no support for me - the forum should be closed or the title changed.
You are correct, support is all about give and take, if you feel that you need support then you also need to be supportive too. But then also be open to the fact that not everyone wishes to be supported through Gyan or Bk knowledge and that there are other forms of knowledge and information systems in our world which are also supportive in their role.

I think that your comment : "If people are hurt than this is not for hurting people" may show a language barrier problem between us and I accept that this is quite possible. However if your meaning is to say that this forum is not for 'hurt' people then you are wrong but I now ask you to think about that and let me know if I am mis-understanding what you are saying, so please kindly clarify.

And as to your point that the forum should be closed and/or title changed, we are all part of it by choice and no-one forces anyone to be a part of it. You; me or anyone else post here for specific reasons, I could suggest that you check with yourself as to why you wantt to be part of it, and if you feel its not too personal then do let us know so we can see 'who' you are as a person.
In the BK things are put on a common ground. This is needed. There is no loss in lettin go of ones own beliefs to adopt some common belief it will create unity.
I may be able to agree that this is fine, so long as no-one is hurt in the process.? If you take some time to read the postings then you will see that unfortunately a lot of emotional and mental damage has been done to a lot of people and this is our point. One cannot let go of one belief system and adopt another if it causes damage.
Also about the language problem...it is a very big problem in the world. One can see the face but strange language, strange words emerge from the mouth. It aslo becomes instrumental for division.
This is the cause of much strife in our world to be sure, and its not only language but also belief systems that go with the different language and cultural barriers that exist.

Support, discussion and communication can all be difficult unless everyone has a common goal. As to your comments to ex-l and Di, I will cannot answer on their behalf and leave it up to them to answer you if they feel the need to do so.

In light

di
Friends and family of
Posts: 137
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: Australia

Post by di » 14 Jun 2007

Dear Andrey,

I do hope you continue posting. I find what you write valuable in gaining some insight into the thought process of a strong believer. It is unfortunate that I, never having been a BK can fully understand what you mean, just as you cannot walk in my shoes. We are all different. I think that your courage in standing your ground, and am I correct in saying being a lone ranger, to voice your opinions is commendable. It is a very difficult position to be in. I do think the English difficulty can contribute to misinterpretation.

My ex is not an Australian and English is his 2nd language. Even though he has been here since a young teenager, he still had difficulty is grasping the meaning of what was being said. He knows all the words and vocabulary but would often not understand what was being really communicated. Just as he would say something and it seem irrelevant at the time. As well as word patterns and phrases being localised on top of that as well. So we had some elevated discussions at times, until we clarified the 'meaning' of what was being said.

Of course you have a right to voice your beliefs and opinions here and I hope you continue to do so. Because these are such an emotive issues and complex ones is possibly why you are getting such damning condemnations for what you have said. I am a very, very fortunate person who God has smiled on in this trying time of my life. He has given me this forum and the people in it, who have become my family and my support as well as my teachers to help me come out of this intact. I am scarred, but intact.

Because these people genuinely care about me and others in my position, and the many others in much worse situations they defend me as a family would - Vigorously, as I would do for them. It makes me warm and fuzzy inside and makes me feel SAFE, something I have not felt for a long time. I feel truly loved and accepted. I am not being mushy here, this is just what i have been given. I believe you are doing the world a service by posting here and offering an indepth view of other ways of thinking and living.

I would be grateful for one thing, if you would do this. I am very interested to know why you would choose to comment on this thread. Previously you have not ventured into this sort of area or commentary. I am assuming that the subject has a connection with you.

Your views are very strong and determined, and dare I say passionate in their delivery. I, and I think I could speak for others, would be exceedingly welcoming to your thoughts if you would share that with us. What was it that touched and connected with you for you to write to me here? This is a place for self-exploration, growth and healing as well. I assure you, that if you could do this, that no one would be critical of you for opening up and giving of yourself. Not Gyan, but inner you. This takes real courage to do. We all set ourselves up to be vulnerable to a certain extent here with the possibility of rejection, but we all have the wall of anonymity for security.
Please understand that I am also an individual with a right to express my own view, whether it is due to my own churning or somthing I have learnt and like to share. I can express this in the way I feel appropriate and if someone feels supressed by it then please tell me because what I should do is to change something.

I humbly suggest to you - is this your own view? or is it a view that you have been taught that you should have, because to do otherwise is evil? Is that why you are really here? To try to do service and correct our thinking or to find out who you are again in between the teachings of Gyan?

Somehow I think this is more personal than just doing service. Hey, if I can bare my soul and my life here for the world to see, trust me, anyone can. And more importantly end up far better off for doing so. I was beyond terrified to post here originally, and there were many times I thought I had exposed myself too much, but now I am so glad I took that chance. I would really like to hear from you on this. Your honesty and openess would assist me in my path.

Please remember, "Hi, I am new & would greatly appreciate some guidance ..." and personal experience and you telling me of your experiences in these areas could perhaps help. Not Gyan, I get so lost in it and my thinking at the moment is just not as open as it may be should be. Just your personal views and experiences.

Why did you post here?

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