Yagya history

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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Post by fluffy bunny » 28 Mar 2007

Andrey wrote:She was the Brahma and he becames the first Brahmin - Prajapita.
And what do you make of all this evidence that they called him Prajapati? What was he doing from 1932 onwards?

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Post by andrey » 29 Mar 2007

He must be giving knowledge, running the Yagya.

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Post by arjun » 30 Mar 2007

Dear All,
Om Shanti. The following Murli point related to cutting/editing of Murlis was originally posted in another thread on that topic, but I am pasting a copy of the same here because this Murli point is a proof of the fact that even after Murlis began to be narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba at Mount Abu after 1950, the Murlis used to be noted down manually and handwritten copies used to be prepared by the BKs living at Madhuban and the same used to be posted to other BKs living all over India by post. If anyone can get a copy of those handwritten Murlis, then it would be nice to have it uploaded here.

“Murli likhna bahut achhi service hai, sabhi khush hongey, aasheervaad karengey. Baba akshar bahut achhey hain. Nahee toh likhtey hain akshar achhey nahee. Baba hamko Vani cut karke bhej detey hain. Hamaarey ratnon kee chori ho jaati hai. Baba ham adhikaari hain – jo aapkey mukhh say ratna nikaltey hain vah sab hamaarey paas aaney chaahiye. Yah kahengey vahee jo ananya hongey. Murli kee seva bahut achhi reeti karnee chaahiye. Sabhi bhashaen seekhnee chaahiye. Marathi, Gujrati aadi...Jaisey Baba rahamdil hai bachhon ko bhi rahamdil ban-na hai.” (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 12.03.07, pg.3)

“Writing Murlis is a very good service; everyone would feel happy; they would give blessings. Baba the writing (akshar or letters) is very good. Otherwise they write that the writing is not good. Baba, they cut and send the Vanis to us. Our gems are stolen. Baba we are entitled that – all the gems that emerge from your mouth should reach us. These words would be spoken only by those who are ananya (in literal sense it means unique, but could also mean ‘dear ones’). The service of Murlis should be done very nicely. One must learn all the languages. Marathi, Gujarati, etc... Just as Baba is merciful, the children must also become merciful.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 12.03.07, pg.3 published by BKs and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Note: The translation has been done by a PBK and the words appearing within brackets have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning of the Hindi word)

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Post by arjun » 30 Mar 2007

Dear All,
Om Shanti. The following Murli point related to foundation of Bhakti rituals having been laid during the times of Brahma Baba was originally posted in another thread on that topic, but I am pasting a copy of the same here for record:

"Kal ek yugal Baba kay paas aaya, Baba nay samjhaya - bachhey tum Bap say behad ka varsa nahee lengey. Aadha Kalpa nark may gotey khaakar dukhee huay ho, ab ek janma vish chod nahee saktey ho? Swarg ka maalik ban-ney ke liye pavitra nahee banengey. Bola - hai toh difficult. Baba nay kaha kaam chita par baithney liye jismaani Brahman nay tumhara hathiyala baandha, ab tum gyaan chitaa par baith swarg kay Maharaja Maharani bano. Toh kaha aapko sahayata deni padegi. Baba nay kaha - Shivbba ko Yaad kartey rahengey toh jaroor sahayataa milegi. Bola haan Yaad karoonga. Jhat Baap say hathiyala baandha, angoothi bhi pahnee. Yah BapDada hai na. Behad ka Baap kahtey hain bachhey tum pavitra nahee banongey toh swarg may bhi nahee chal sakengey. Yah antim janma pavitra nahee ban-ney say tum raajaai kho baithengey."

"Yesterday, a couple came to meet Baba. Baba explained - Children, will you not obtain the unlimited inheritance from the Father? You have become sorrowful by plunging in the hell for half a Kalpa. Now cannot you renounce poison (of sex-lust) for one birth? Will you not become pure to become the masters of heaven? He said - It is difficult. Baba said - In order to seat you on the funeral pyre of sex-lust the worldly Brahmin tied hathiyala (probably a piece of cloth) between you. Now you sit on the funeral pyre of knowledge and become the Maharaja-Maharani of heaven. So he said - You would have to help. Baba said - If you keep remembering ShivBaba then you would certainly get help. He said - I would certainly remember. He immediately got a hathiyala tied by the Father, and also wore a ring. This is BapDada, is not he? The unlimited Father says - Children if you do not become pure, then you would not be able to enter into heaven also. If you do not become pure in this last birth, you would lose the kingship." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 22.01.07, pg.3 published by BKs in Hindi and narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba and translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator).

The above Murli point proves that the ritual of tying rakhi or giving rings was started by Brahma Baba only, which was further strengthened by the post-69 administrators of BK institution.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by arjun » 04 Apr 2007

Tum bachhey yah thodey hee kah sakengey – Baba nay kab inmay pravesh kiya. Jab sakshaatkaar hua tab aaya va kab? Saakshaatkaar toh Bhakti marg may bhi aisey hee hotey hain. Pataa nahee padta ki Baba kis samay aaya. Krishna kay aaney kee ghadee dikhaatey hain. ShivBaba kee ghadi aadi kuch hoti nahee. Baba toh maalik hai. Kab aatey hain, pataa nahee padta hai. Yahaan Murli say samajh jaatey hain.” (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 27.03.07, pg.2)


You children would not be able to say – when Baba entered into him. Did He come when he had divine vision or when? Similar divine visions occur in the path of worship also. It cannot be known at what time Baba came. The time of the arrival of Krishna is depicted. There is no time, etc. for the arrival of ShivBaba. Baba is a Master. It cannot be known - when He comes. Here, it is guessed through Murli.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.03.07, pg.2 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that one cannot know about the time of entry of Shiv into Brahma Baba and it can’t even be said that Shiv entered into him when he had divine visions. So, how can we say that when Dada Lekhraj had divine visions in his room in 1936/37, the incorporeal Shiv had entered into him on that day and at that time. So then is it proper for us aloukik Brahmins to celebrate the Shivjayanti of the path of knowledge on a day decided by the astrologers of the path of worship for the Shivratri of Bhaktimarg?
- BKs say that ShivBaba teaches face to face by coming into Gulzar Dadiji. But there the programme of Avyakt BapDada’s arrival (day and time) is fixed many months earlier. But Baba is telling that “It cannot be known - when He comes” Does it not prove that it is not ShivBaba, but only Brahma Baba, i.e. the soul of Krishna which comes into Gulzar Dadiji?

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Post by arjun » 21 Apr 2007

Shuru may bachhey Murli bigar ek din bhi rah nahee saktey thay, kitnaa tadaptey thay. (Class may badi bahinon nay geet sunaaya – teri Murli may jaadoo...) Baandheliyon ko kaisey Murli pahunchaatey thay. Murli may hee jaadoo hai na. Kaun Silver Age jaadoo? Vishwa kaa maalik ban-ney ka jaadoo. Is say badaa jaadoo koi hota nahee. Toh us samay Murli ka tumko kitnaa kadar tha. Murli pahunchaaney ke liye kitnaa prayatna kartey thay. Samajhtey thay padhaai bigar bichaarey ka kya haal hoga! Yahaan Baba jaantey hain bahut aisey bachhey hain jo Murli par poora dhyaan hee nahee detey hain.” (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 12.01.07, pg 1&2)

In the beginning children could not live without Murli even for a day. They used to become restless without it. (The senior sisters sang a song in the class – there is magic in your Murli ...) How the Murlis used to be delivered to Bandhelis (sisters/mothers in bondages)! There is magic in the Murlis alone. Which magic? The magic of becoming the Masters of the world. There is no magic greater than this. So, at that time you used to have so much value for Murlis. So much effort used to be made to deliver Murlis. They used to feel that what would be his/her condition without the study! Here Baba knows that there are many such children who do not pay full attention to Murlis at all.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 12.01.07, pg 1 & 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba, translated by a PBK)

The above Murli quote is a proof of the historical fact that copies of Murlis used to be delivered by BKs to fellow BKs (sisters/mothers in bondages) in the beginning of the Yagya.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by arjun » 28 Jul 2007

• "Swayam Bhagwaan kahtey hain jab Bhakti poori ho tab mai aaun. Aadhakalpa Bhaktimarg chaltaa hai, din aur raat. Shuru may bhi pehley-pehley jab praveshataa hui (Maa ke roop may praveshata hoti thi) toh deevaaron par aisey-aisey chakra nikaaltey rahtey thay, jaisey chotey bachhey hotey hain. Samajh may kuch nahee aata tha. Ham tum sab babies thay, fir dheerey-dheerey buddhi may aata gayaa. Abhi tum padhkar hoshiyaar huay ho toh bilkul sahaj reeti samajha saktey ho. Aisey nahee samajhnaa yah bahut puraaney bachhey hain, isliye hamsey hoshiyaar hain. Ham toh itnaa padh nahee sakengey. Baba kahtey hain – pichaadi may aaney vaaley bahut aagey ja saktey hain. Deri say aaney vaaley aur hee din-raat Yoga may mast ho lag padengey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 23.05.07, pg 3)

• “God Himself says – I come when Bhakti completes. For half a Kalpa/cycle the path of devotion (i.e. Bhaktimarg) goes on, day and night. Even in the beginning, initially when there was entry (In the beginning entry used to take place in the form of mother), then he used to draw the pictures of World Cycle like this, just as there are small children. (He) Did not understand anything. You and I were all babies; then gradually it went on entering the intellect. Now you have studied and become intelligent. So, you can explain very easily. Do not think that - "These are very old children, that is why they are more intelligent than us. We will not be able to study to that extent." Baba says – Those who come late can gallop ahead (of others). Those who come late would become even more intoxicated in Yoga day and night.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.05.07, pg 3 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that in the beginning, he used not to understand anything and he used to draw the pictures of the world cycle etc. on the walls. He was like babies, i.e. children.
- Then who explained to him the meanings of his divine visions? Because it has been said in the Murli that having divine visions and entry of God/deity in someone are different matters. Certainly, the Supreme Father Shiv must have explained to Dada Lekhraj Brahma the meaning of the divine visions having entered another body.

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Post by john » 07 Aug 2007

Not sure how this fits in but this is from Mohini's class in the USA.
Brahma Baba says that when he started and He was about to enter – he took a few years and he was being prepared. He started feeling like there was something more to life. He wanted to have this inner dialogue like telling his mind "you cannot dominate me anymore. I want to be the master; I want to have control over my life". This conversation began many years before and he started writing and recording whatever changes were happening. What his inner dialogues had been and after that was when changes started happening; he felt someone was telling him - talking to him and after that he started writing and drawing on the walls whatever he was seeing and feeling- about the world cycle. Gradually he was being prepared and then it took about 3 years then one day he experienced who God is. He understood that God wants to use him and he wants him to be an instrument. God was preparing him.
3 years from 1937?
Brahma Baba says that when he started and He was about to enter
What was Brahma baba about to enter, did the Yagya start before he arrived?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Aug 2007

Does not she mean, "He" equaling Shiva?
Mohini wrote:He started writing and recording whatever changes were happening ... it took about 3 years then one day he experienced who God is.
Most importantly, were are these recordings of the changes?

It still does not add up if read alongside the old God Brahma books and posters. She says "one day he experienced who God is", when was this and why did it take such along time to filter though. Its all so vague.

It fascinates me the way that they continuously invent and falsify histories, improvising on a theme. The audience just sucks it up and they get way with it. I can understand the romantic appeal of hagiographies, reverential, saintly biographies.

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Post by arjun » 10 Oct 2007

Om Shanti.

Continuing with the glimpses from the Gyanamrit magazine dated October, 2007 published by BKs in Hindi, I would like to mention that in his artcle BK Omprakash of Indore has written (on page no.23) that there was no tradition of buying land and constructing a building in the institution till 1980. While writing about Dadiji, he writes that it was she who publicly urged the BKs of Indore to have an auditorium of their own keeping in view the large number of BKs in Indore.

It could be presumed that when the prediction of Destruction failed in 1976/77, and after the institution must have settled down in their business after the exit of many BKs due to the failed prediction, they might have taken a conscious decision to have permanent property.

The tradition of not buying land and constructing buildings must have been in accordance with the Shrimat given in Murlis which says that - keep on taking houses on rent and go on opening centers.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by tinydot » 10 Oct 2007

arjun wrote:The tradition of not buying land and constructing buildings must have been in accordance with the Shrimat given in Murlis which says that - keep on taking houses on rent and go on opening centers.
Could we say that after this 1976 failed prediction, Seniors had come to their senses and admitted to themselves that they did not know everything and they did not know exactly what this so called Destruction Baba was referring? And therefore, instead of renting, they started buying, since deep in their hearts, they did not know when the Destruction is going to happen.

AND YET, STILL PROMULGATED THIS LIE. Some people had an attitude like this:

"Oh God, I had been a fool believing in all this nonsense. I had been deceived by giving my everything to someone. Therefore, let me do the same to somebody else. This is a dirty world, and everyone has got to do his own business no matter how impure and deceptive it is."

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Post by arjun » 26 Nov 2007

Quoted from the Commonroom Section for record:

The Hindi version of the extract of revised Sakar Murli dated 23.11.07, pg.3 that bkti-pit has quoted above is as follows:

"ShivBaba toh jhat aakar parichay deney lag padtey hain. Kuch samay toh pataa hee nahee padaa ki yah kaun aaya hai? Kaun bol rahey hain? Baad may maaloom padaa ki yah toh ShivBaba gyaan ka saagar hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 23.11.07, page 3)

The official BK translation:

"Shiv Baba comes and instantly begins to give His introduction. For some time Baba did not even know who had come and who was speaking. It was after some time that he realized it was Shiv Baba, the Ocean of Knowledge, who was speaking."

My suggested translation could be somewhat like this:

"Shiv Baba comes and instantly begins to give His introduction. For some time (Baba) did not even know who had come and who was speaking. It was later on that he realized it was Shiv Baba, the Ocean of Knowledge (who was speaking)."

(the words within brackets have been added by the translator)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by arjun » 23 Dec 2007

Quoted from the BK section for record purpose:

67.

"Tum toh Karachi may bhatti may bhatti may padey; samajhney ke liye aatey thay. Partition kay baad sab bhaag gaye; tum toh vahaan rahey padey thay. Tumko kiska sang nahee tha. Sang say door hotey bhi numberwaar purushaarth kiya. Sab toh ek jaisa purushaarth kar bhi nahee saktey. School may bhi sab ek jaisey number koi letey nahee hain. Doh student ko 99 marks mil nahee saktey." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 30.10.07, pg 3)

"You entered the bhatti at Karachi; you used to come to understand. After the partition everyone ran away. You had been living there. You did not keep the company of anyone (i.e. outsiders). In spite of being away from (outside) company, you made numberwise efforts. It is not even possible for everyone to make equal efforts. Even in the school everyone does not get equal numbers (i.e. marks). Two students cannot get 99 marks." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 30.10.07, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

The above quote is a proof for the fact that many BKs who attended the bhatti at the beginning of the Yagya left it at the time of partition of India.

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Post by arjun » 28 Dec 2007

Quoted from the BK section for record purpose:

72.

"Baba sunaatey hain – ham Gita bhi padhtey thay. Narayan kaa bhi poojan kartey thay. Gaddi par bhi Narayan ka chitra rakhtey thay (history sunana) Lakshmi ko kaisey mukt kar diya. Duniya vaalon say badaa yukti say chalnaa padtaa hai. Tum bhi gupt reeti Baba ka parichay detey raho ki Baap ko varsey ko Yaad karo. Swarg kay hain devi-devataa, isliye Lakshmi-Narayan ka chitra banaya hai. Pehley Trimurti nahee daalaa tha kyonki Brahma ko dekh bigad jaatey hain. Parantu Brahma bigar kaam kaisey ho. BK Baap ko nahee dekhengey toh kaam kaisey hoga?" (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 02.11.07, pg 3&4)

“Baba narrates that – I also used to read Gita. I also used to worship Narayan. I also used to keep the pictre of Narayan on the seat (gaddi). (Narrate the history) How Lakshmi was freed. One has to deal with the people of the world very tactfully. You also keep giving the introduction of the Father in an incognito way that – Remember the Father and the inheritance. Deities belong to the heaven; that is why the picture of Lakshmi and Narayan has been prepared. Initially, the picture of Trimurti was not published because people become angry on seeing Brahma. But how can the task be accomplished without Brahma? How will the task be accomplished if BKs do not see the Father?" (Revised Sakar Murli dated 02.11.07, pg 3&4 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

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Re: Yagya history

Post by arjun » 06 Mar 2008

Quoted from the BK Section for record purpose:
107.
“Now you are listening from the Father face to face. Then you will listen after 5 thousand years. Whatever you are writing now will all perish. Then who will narrate these matters? Suppose some old papers emerge from underground (in excavations), from which they sit and prepare scriptures. Even then it will be the same scriptures of the path of worship that will emerge (from underground). They have not been prepared afresh. As per the drama plan, it will be the same (scriptures of the path of worship) which might have emerged. It will be the same Gita, Bhaagwat, Mahabharata, Ramayana, etc. which will be prepared once again." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 05.12.07, pg 2&3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

Om Shanti. I remember ex-l having quoted BK sources many times saying that the Murlis buried underground in a trunk in Sindh, Pakistan will emerge again in the Copper Age to help BK souls (reborn in the Copper Age) to prepare scriptures. But the above Murli point disproves that completely.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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