What is the truth?

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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master creator
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Post by master creator » 28 Sep 2007

tinydot wrote:Welcome to the forum. I was just reminded of lesson two as taught by my instrument teacher in Gyan. "God is not omnipresent."
Very nice ... first when I read this I felt a bit but then i did not feel bad. It reminded me that once Baba told in the Murli that what do you all think when Baba is here in Madhuban - is Paramdham empty? Baba said - No! He has many tasks to do and thats why he is also known as 'bahuroopi' - the one who can be present at the sametime at different places.

See my brother soul, He is very much in the heart and always present to guide His children. Althought He is not Omnipresent, He is very much Omnipotent and has the power to be at different places at the same time :). In last few Murlis Baba has said that you children say it with pride that God resides in your heart! Everyone feels and says that yes He is My Baba - He is mine ... and the fact is that He is for all of us ... but at the sametime we individually also feel that bond with Him ... and hence the heart says My Baba!

Its how strong our love is to make Him stay there ... try it out! Its a lovely feeling!
paulkershaw wrote:Hey there Master Creator, welcome to the forum and thank you ...
For me, on a personal level, I keep looking to the Truth and not for it. Greetings of Light xxxx
Thank you brother Paul.

With My Baba in my heart,

IBY, *

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Post by fluffy bunny » 28 Sep 2007

Did you hear about Virendra Dev Dixit from within the BK circles, e.g. your center-in-charge? We are trying to find out the truth of it all and it seems the BKWSU are slandering him ... possibly at the same time as listen to him and taking elements of what he says.
master creator wrote:My understanding is that this is part of the test process. Yes, why not - there is a possibility that my faith is being tested. And as I write this - after I came across this site - it feels like a big test and the intellect is just about to turn doubtful. Hope I will pass this test and walk on the right path which is Truth and nothing but Truth.
Ultimately, I would say THE BIG TESTS come and are in The Family. The most 'very big' and the most subtle ones. I would say we are a bunch of kittens in comparison to the lions and tigers of Maya that prowl around the BK Family and what, generally, we would wish for anyone, BK or non-BK, is that they can be pre-warn and pre-armed against those predators ... and that they can base their practise on solid, rational grounds.

I can only believe in the depths of my heart that knowing the truth as it is, seeing truth as it is, having the power to face the truth as it is will improve your stage and your relationship with God. And for a BK soul, that beginning of that HAS to be on unlimited access to the complete collection of unedited Murlis and the earlier numbered 'Divine Decrees'. To hide, hold back, or edit out the Knowledge is a far worse sin that any we could dream up here. In my opinion, The Family, or particularly the Leadership, also has to face up to certain events, they way they handled them and the way it does business.

For me, the greatest Maya is accepting the versions of the "bodily gurus" ... the self-elected BK Seniors. I would not trust anyone of them, their chit-chat and especially their status based on the trend of self-promotion which has, in my opinion, that has overwhelmed the BKWSU ... unless it was shown to be in accordance with the Murli. And I would not trust them because they have been proven to re-write history and the Murli!!!

The problem is ... knowing that their version are incomplete or not in accordance with the truth and that they have changed the history to hide certain events in the past ... the leadership is now hiding away and limiting access to the truth. Instead they draw our focus away from the truth to the puppet shows, the VIPs and the public programmes. Even outsiders comment on how they "infantalise" individuals within the BK Family and I think they are stopping people grow spiritual in order to maintain their position.

We have caught them out making VERY serious changes and exposed their exaggerated claims and I do not think they are happy about it. BUT ... I can only think that the BKSWU and individual's practise will improve through this process and others such challenges.

It is time for change ... time to kick the Bhakti out of Gyan ... time to stop all the worship ... time to grow up and be independent ...

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Post by master creator » 28 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:It is time for change ... time to kick the Bhakti out of Gyan ... time to stop all the worship ... time to grow up and be independent ...
Dear brother,

Yes, I agree there should be no element of Bhakti in Gyan. Can you please highlight specific changes that you have mentioned above? Thanks for inputs.

IBY, *

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Post by fluffy bunny » 28 Sep 2007

Let's start with the Dadi Worship, the false history syndrome, the dishonest representation of the BKWSU to non-BKs and above all the infantilisation.

Then let's sort the organization out to become a proper instution with an accountable structure of governance and leadership, an ombudsperson system to investigate abuses, adequate teacher training to take into consideration a duty of care towards the psychological effects of the system ... and then let's work on a proper scientific theory to explain the 5,000 Cycle and understand the Honeymoon Period properly.

If you finish those, have a read of some of my other posts for other ideas. Click on anyone's logo and it will take you to a page where you can see their contributions. When you log on it helps to check the 'New Topics' links. It would be good if BapDada could be engaged in such discussion instead of all the personal adoration and group/cult worship he is subjected to.

Oh ... and remove all the pictures of Lekhraj Kirpalani (and other elder BKs) from the centers, inline with Shrimat in the Murlis.

You raise an important isse of how can new readers navigate their way around all that have been voiced on the forum. I do not have an answer for that.

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Post by john » 29 Sep 2007

master creator wrote:That apart, I will be glad if John Bhai can throw some more light on where Shiva Baba is - if he is aware of the truth as my aim of coming on this forum is to reach the Truth. And my understanding of correct/accurate remembrance is as I expressed earlier that just to connect with Shiv Baba the point of light by considering myself as a soul, i.e. a point of light ... communication between two spirits - me & Him.
All I believe with any certainty is that between 1950 and 1969 ShivBaba revealed Sakar Murli through BrahmaBaba. I think it is the thing that most BK/PBKs will agree upon. As to the period before 1950 and after 1969 I am unsure, my feelings are that Avyakt Vani is only the words of BrahmaBaba, to me it is so different from Sakar Murli it it is not from the same author.
Thanks John Bhai - but what is the truth - do you know or does anyone else know?
My opinion is no, nobody knows, it is a matter of faith.

Virendra Dev Dixit does not make any direct claims to being the second Chariot of Shiva known as Shankar, because of this no answers will be given by him about being the Chariot of Shiva. I have asked through this forum with no response, whilst other answers pertaining to advance knowledge are forthcoming.

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Post by bansy » 29 Sep 2007

Hi master_creator

Welcome to the forum. What is the truth ? Not sure if anyone knows, but go with your heart and add a little mind and intellect and some sanskars, and that is the truth for you at this point in time.

This forum may not give you "your truth" nicely served on a plate, but for me, it opens me up and brings a better and more informed reason of what truth is made up of, with or without the Gyan the BK/PBK/Vishnu Party etc offer. Thus I am my own judge of my destiny, to follow what my soul wants, not simply what other tells me to. Since it is Kaliyug.

This is not to say the BKWSU has not opened my eyes, it has. Yet things discussed here have made them clearer.

I hope this helps. OK, enjoy.

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Post by master creator » 01 Oct 2007

bansy wrote:This forum may not give you "your truth" nicely served on a plate, but for me, it opens me up and brings a better and more informed reason of what truth is made up of, with or without the Gyan the BK/PBK/Vishnu Party etc offer. Thus I am my own judge of my destiny, to follow what my soul wants, not simply what other tells me to. Since it is Kaliyug.
Firstly thanks for the inputs, brother soul. If it is truth then it has to be One and should be crystal clear and should me made know to all. I heard similar replies from various souls on the forum. Please I want to be clear and sure of whether what I perceive it as truth is in fact really the truth.

As there are several claims on this forum that things done by the BKs are not truth. Some says PBKs are true. Some says Vishnu Party is true.

What the h*** - sorry! But truth has to be one and has to be acceptable to one and all. This website claims that there are certain things that are not true then at the sametime it should also say what it the real truth - rather than just pointing one side of it.

Anyways, feel free to add your perspective. I agree with your point that it is what the heart says and add but of MIS to it. But in this age of Kaliyug the heart and the MIS at times are not functioning well enough to precive the right truth. I do have my truth but some people claim that it is not true and hence on this forum I am asking those people to then tell me what is the real truth ... Hope you understand my feelings.

Someone please make things clear. From the day I have seen this website I am really very disturbed frankly speaking.

IBY, *

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Post by john » 01 Oct 2007

master creator wrote:As there are several claims on this forum that things done by the BK's are not truth. Some says PBK's are true. Some says Vishnu Party is true. What the h*** - sorry! But truth has to be one and has to be acceptable to one and all. this website claims that there are certain things that are not true then at the sametime it shd also say what it the real truth - rather than just pointing one side of it.
I don't think this forum is about telling people what is the 'Truth', more an open discussion by many different souls from different backgrounds in a hope to expose true and false things.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Oct 2007

master creator wrote:Someone please make things clear. From the day I have seen this website I am really very disturbed frankly speaking.
I am genuinely sorry to hear that but not surprised. More to the point, I respect not only your courage in coming forward but also the poise and open attitude with which you came forward. Sadly, previous BKs have not made such a positive impression and I think it is fair to say that this forum has been somewhat negatively influence, in a reactionary manner, towards the responses of such BKs here and elsewhere. Of course, they are not representative of the whole.

If I speak personally, my faith in the leadership of the BKWSU organization has been torn out, uproot and broken into many parts by the discoveries I have made of the historical revision and cover ups ... and specifically the turning of the organization towards business and money. This may not be your position, especially if you lean towards the PBKs. You may have wised up to that or had it explained earlier

At the present, I can no longer say what is true. All I can point out, on the basis of evidence, is what it clearly NOT true. In a sense, I am taking a reductive approach ... whatever is left at the end, and is not capable of being reduced any further, will be that which is true.

I empathize entirely at what a challenge it all is to one's faith but have courage. It is all part of growing up and evolving spiritually.

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Post by master creator » 02 Oct 2007

Thank you everyone - please continue to increase the enlightenment.

I also told another soul and I repeat it here - I always believe - see when I say a certain thing is falsehood I won't be fully comfortable in saying that unless I am able to bring about what is the corresponding real truth ... otherwise the falsehood still remains the truth in absence of the proof of the real truth!

I agree with ex-l that this is the part of growing up and evolving spirituality.

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Post by master creator » 02 Oct 2007

john wrote:I don't think this forum is about telling people what is the 'Truth', more an open discussion by many different souls from different backgrounds in a hope to expose true and false things.
Bro. John, the ultimate aim should be to reach the truth ... when you say expose true and false things ... but then what do you do with it..the reason you are exposing it is to reach the ultimate truth ... Everyone wd then, I believe, accept and walk on the path of truth once it is established - that's the process and that shd be the aim of the open discussion. Otherwise its not that meaningful a discussion however open it may be!

What I was asking all the forum members is that from your past open discussions if you have reached that truth then please share with others or at least share your individual understanding of the same ... but I understand everyone is still in the "work in process" stage ... and thanks for clarifying!

With good wishes,
IBY,
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Post by jannisder » 02 Oct 2007

How come that even God does not know the truth, (you) want to know the truth??? It so funny ... see you do not have to know the truth, its just a waste of time.

When you are wondering about the truth, and wasting your time, many others remaining in peace do not even want to know and do not waste time, they just believe. They are done wondering, they just know ...

Depends on what birth you are in. Souls who are done searching ... well, need i say more ...

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Post by john » 02 Oct 2007

master creator wrote:Bro. John, the ultimate aim should be to reach the truth ... when you say expose true and false things ... but then what do you do with it..the reason you are exposing it is to reach the ultimate truth .
Yes, I agree and ultimately that is the aim, to come to the truth. As you point out it is a 'work in progress', but the work is beyond the basic scope/understanding of BKSWU. What I mean is that BKs have a circle of understanding/teaching and anything that crosses over is beyond their scope and will make some BKs feel uncomfortable, others liberated.

In my opinion lots of BKs are Bhakti and seva souls, who thrive on service and devotion, but don't really care to go into the depths of knowledge, like a Gyani soul. BKSWU teaching is influenced by those in charge of the BKSWU and some of the original teachings by ShivBaba are omitted or missing.

Here we are trying to put the pieces of the jigsaw together to find out what really happened.
What I was asking all the forum members is that from your past open discussions if you have reached that truth then please share with others or at least share your individual understanding of the same ... but I understand everyone is still in the "work in process" stage ... and thanks for clarifying!
ShivBaba did not speak Murli in BB until 1950, before that, BKs believed BB was God Father himself. That I think is quite a revelation and it comes from documents produced by BKs at the time called Divine Decrees. In Murli it says, in the original that Shiva does not incarnate into a virgin, yet in rewritten Murlis later, it says the opposite. Now the point is that Gulzar is a virgin, therefore how can it be Shiva who incarnates at the time of Avyakt Vani?

From this point alone it is possible to see how rewrites can vastly change the meaning of Gyan.

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Post by master creator » 02 Oct 2007

jannisder wrote:How come that even God does not know the truth, (you) want to know the truth??? It so funny ... see you do not have to know the truth, its just a waste of time.
Thanks for the inputs. I repeat - since there were some claims that BKs are not true ... I wanted those people to tell me the truth according to them. However I would like to highlight I am not wondering in search of truth. I do believe in my truth and have known the truth - I am just having a discussion with those set of people who are claiming things!

I am in the 84th birth (last birth in the cycle) ... not sure about yours and am also not sure what you are trying to say ... looks incomplete!

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Post by john » 02 Oct 2007

master creator wrote: I do believe in my truth and have known the truth - I am just having a discussion with those set of people who are claiming things!
If you look in the history section, you will find most of the details. It is also documented that Lekhraj Kirpalani was 54 when the Yagya started, NOT 60 as BKSWU of version history states.

The relevance - It is said in Murli ShivBaba enters a Chariot at their age of retirement, which is considered to be the age of 60.

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