Why are there no Surrendered foreigners in Madhuban?

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Why are there no Surrendered foreigners in Madhuban?

Post by moksha » 06 Oct 2007

Can anyone tell me - how to become this? Because for a long time I have wanted to leave this country in which I have had this last birth and become a Madhuban nivasi. But it seems impossible?

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Re: Why there is no one Surrender foreiner in Madhuban?

Post by tinydot » 06 Oct 2007

moksha wrote:Can anyone say me - How to become that? Because since long time I want to leave that cauntry in wich I get this last birth and become madhubannivasi, but it seems impossible?
Denise bhen (former Los Angeles BK Director) is now in Madhuban and she is a madhuban niwasis.

David, also another foreign brother is there.

But, there are very few. Perhaps, this is about Indianism, :roll:.

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Post by bansy » 06 Oct 2007

Interesting post.

How and what does one pass to become a "Madhubanniwassis" ? Indian or otherwise.

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Post by moksha » 06 Oct 2007

As I know Denise take leave from Madhuban and now living in UK. David - Gyansarovarnivasi.

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Re: Why there is no one Surrender foreiner in Madhuban?

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Oct 2007

moksha wrote:how to become ... a Madhubannivasi
I agree, interesting question for a new topic.

I think number one you have to realize that the BKWSU organization makes decisions over your destiny depending on its needs and WANTS. As there is no "IT", that means the opinions, needs and WANTS of the center-in-charges and the SS.

If you are rich ... it will be less of a problem. Speak to Nirvair or Janki and they will, by all accounts, introduce you to an BK Abu property developer and you can buy property there.

If you are poor ... they don't need you. They need and want you to work for free and provide funds to support their program of international expansion. And like the cannonfodder and foot soldiers in the old days of war, you as a poor BK are expendable. If fact, they know that for every 10 people that join the BKWSU ... what ... 7 or 8 leave? And so they have to calculate in that wastage making sure that their foreign outposts have sufficient troops so that they can afford to lose many in "the wars" and still keep the center running.

They need so many troops of 'such and such' a caliber; footsoldiers, cavalry, elephant riders and Spetsnaz (Mahavirs). They will keep you stuck in a center even if it is not good for your, in a country if it is not good for you, under a center-in-charge even if it is not good for you ... on the pretense that it is good for you ... because IT IS GOOD FOR THEM! They will do so under the pretense of "karma", "sanskars" and that God is 'whispering' in their ear to guide their every thought and action ... its a bad joke.

If you have skills that are unique ... like the solar energy guy, then may be you can stay in their palace for a little while. Otherswise ... forget it.

In fact, the best plan to be able to stay in Madhuban is; leave Gyan, marry an Indian living in Mount Abu, get a visa to stay in India, and then come back to Gyan again and use Madhuban as your local center! Its a great idea because you will have free hospital care and be looked after when you get old ... not something the rest of the BKs will get.

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Re: Why there is no one Surrender foreiner in Madhuban?

Post by tinydot » 06 Oct 2007

ex-l wrote:In fact, the best plan to be able to stay in Madhuban is; leave Gyan, marry an Indian living in Mount Abu, get a visa to stay in India, and then come back to Gyan again and use Madhuban as your local center! Its a great idea because you will have free hospital care and be looked after when you get old ... not something the rest of the BKs will get.
Heidi, that millionare Swiss, has her house in Abu. She comes to Madhuban/Gyan Sarovar everyday by car. She's one of the those who settled in Abu long time ago. She does her own project of promoting BKWSU and that's why the BKs don't opposed her.

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Post by arjun » 06 Oct 2007

tinydot wrote:Can anyone tell me - how to become that
Om Shanti. In order to become a Madhubanniwasi, you have to first visit Madhuban, visit all the departments. Look, which department you can fit in. You can either befriend the head of the department that you liked and narrate to him your specialty and experience. He may ask you to do service in his department for a few days and then if he likes your performance, he/she may select you and recommend to the Dadi/sister in charge of Madhuban affairs to keep you for a temporary period. May be a season of Avyakt BapDada.

If your services remain satisfactory, you may be absorbed permanently. If you are absorbed permanently, you would be provided many facilities that accompany this status (accomodation, clothing, food, travel facilities, etc). I heard from a surrendered teacher recently that all surrendered teachers are being issued a photo identity card. I guess this must be applicable to all the Madhubanniwasis as well.

Alternatively, if you like any particular department of Madhuban, but do not know how to befriend the head of that department, you could approach your local BK center-in-charge and she may recommend your name to that head of department or the Dadi/sister-in-charge of Madhuban. Then the same procedure of a trial period and permanent absorption may follow.

Whatever may be the method of recruitment, you have to be in the good books of the head of the deparment to continue as a Madhuban niwasi. Besides, they may also watch your sincerity and your detachment from lokik world.

I have written the above on the basis of my interactions with those who have become Madhuban niwasis in the past. If I am wrong, current BKs may correct me.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Oct 2007

It is also worth saying you can get thrown out of Madhuban as well. We know of one case where a brother was stealing money out of one of the cash registers and was caught three times ... ( "one for Baba ... one for me" ) ... before he was thrown out. It does not seem to be too strict and all that happened was that he was sent back to his old center. I wont mention the worse stuff here.
moksha wrote:As I know Denise take leave from Madhuban and now living in UK. David - Gyansarovarnivasi.
Denise also went back to live with her lokik family for a while. She is a case of her own. Of all the Westerners (she was one of the first) she seems to have made the most effort to be accepted in India and Madhuban ... but, strangely, they have not accepted her or perhaps have a greater need for her elsewhere. Hopefully one day all these folks will come forward and be open and honest here.

I would suggest that it would be more democratic if the Madhuban had a fully international representative mix of BKs from every nation ... if Madhuban became the BKs United Nations.

In my opinion, one of the problems is that there are a load of old farts in there just because they have been their since the beginning ... or a long time. A bit like a constipated Civil Service department. Does "being there a long time" signify some special worthiness? Not even by strict BK principles ...

If Madhuban were to become international, rather than Indian, then it would change and change the BKWSU. May be Madhuban positions should be rotated or even have BKs elected to go and live there from every center and nation.

What a radical thought ... a democratic, experimental system under one God rather than under a handful of old fartbags. Now that would be interesting. What would be base the proportions of proportional representatives on? The numbers of individual BKs, the numbers of centers, one per country or the amount of money they bring in? Instead of the BKs sucking up to the sick old Iron Age politicians and their corrupt systems, the BKs could be an example of a future world government
  • Too bad it a filth Shudra, one of the lowest of the low, that has to come up and suggest this stuff! I can hear the Madhubani SS snoring in their meditation as I type ...
But, serious, why have a system in which rank, status and privilege is based on "sticking around" ... surely, that is a sign of failure for not having made significant efforts!!!

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Post by bansy » 08 Oct 2007

What is the median (physical) age of a surrendered sister and that of a surrendered brother ?

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Post by pandav » 09 Oct 2007

First of all you have to live Gyan, then your country, then come to India and in to Gyan again. Then you can go like sevadhari and try. But if you are foreiner you have only 3% - your desire, support of Shiva and record in Drama.

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Post by lotosy » 09 Oct 2007

I think that now Pandav Bhavan is full and there is not any place for anyone. You can try to become Shantivannivasis ...

You can buy some property there I think it will be very cheap. But why do you want to become a Madhubannivasi? Do you have some problem with your lokik family, teacher or with your country?

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Post by arjun » 09 Oct 2007

Sister Bansy wrote:What is the median (physical) age of a surrendered Sister and that of a surrendered Brother ?
Are you asking about the age of surrendered BKs at the entry level? Mostly they prefer to absorb BKs as surrendered BKs at the prime of their youth, after they have attained the age of maturity or after they have completed their studies.

Those sisters with a job are also welcome to pursue their jobs while living at the centers. But I don't know if a sister pursuing a job would be given the certificate of being 'surrendered' or not. I know of a sister who is working as a lecturer and is the in-charge of a BK center for last twenty years. But I don't know if she is treated as a surrendered sister or a non-surrendered sister.

Dear Pandav and lotosy,
Om Shanti and welcome to the forum.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by bansy » 09 Oct 2007

arjun wrote:Are you asking about the age of surrendered BKs at the entry level? Mostly they prefer to absorb BKs as surrendered BKs at the prime of their youth, after they have attained the age of maturity or after they have completed their studies.
Yes. Thanks for the observation from a perspective in India.

I somehow feel the age of surrender is much higher outside India. Possibly the whole perspective of BK life is different, where the BKs have a greater presence in India, so it is possible for Indians to come across the BKWSU at a younger age. Outside India, it seems it is usually the person looking for Yoga and meditation and stress management that comes to stumble across the BKs.

I do find that there is a wider range of ages in India amongst the BKs, whereas outside India, there is a greater proportion of those who are BKs that are in mid or upper age groups, i.e you can get entire families in India to be BKs, but this seems very rare outside India. (Slight aside - I am intrigued to find out how the BKs come across to Indians and Indian families who have been residing in the West for a long time.)

However, all this is just my guess and observation. My point is that is the BK way of life seen as an integral way of life in India, whereas outside India, it is seen more as a form of self-discipline and study ? Generally speaking, of course. And so all this has an effect on the level of surrender whether at an early age or at a later age. And so all this relates to the possibility of surrendered foreigners in general, let alone having one living in Madhuban.
tinydot wrote:But, there are very few. Perhaps, this is about Indianism
I could perhaps rephrase my above discussion above in a similar post as a poll, e.g. If you are Indian and a BK, how many members of your direct family are/were also BKs (direct family means own lokik family and immediate uncles, aunts and cousins)? And the same question if you are non-Indian BK.

This poll would not work in this forum as the sample would not work. Could try it out in Shantivan. Somehow if I was to ask a non-Indian BK going to a BapDada meeting, the likehood is "No, I am the only one in my family", whereas the response from an Indian BK there is a higher chance of a response "My sister is also a BK" or something similar.

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Post by bro neo » 10 Oct 2007

Why are there no Surrendered foreigners in Madhuban?

Because we ask too many questions.

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Post by joel » 10 Oct 2007

bro neo wrote:Because we ask too many questions.
One of your best ever, Bro Neo. :lol:

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