PBK version of the Early Period of the Yagya

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
andrey
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Post by andrey » 17 Oct 2007

If the elder Brother fall into vicious habits and start to harm others, should not the younger Brother step forward to defend the innocent ones and by that the family reputation?
What do you mean?

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john
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Post by john » 17 Oct 2007

I think we should press the matter further and get a clarification on the answer.
andrey wrote:Of course, it is just the way the police operates. First we are caught by the police and then put in front of the court. Now we wait the sentence to be announced. We are not Brothers here.
Is speaking the truth like being sentenced in court to you.
What do you mean?
The meaning is unlimited.

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Post by bkdimok » 18 Oct 2007

john wrote:Is God truth or an organisation? Anyone who wants to find and reveal the truth IS doing Gods work. Anyone lying for an organisation be it BK or PBK cannot be doing Gods work.
God is God. He uses organisations (BK, PBK, ISKCON etc.) for His purposes. You are creating some dogmas. First of all you don't know what is truth. So you don't know what to seek. You have some presentation and conception of truth. Only God knows what is truth indeed. Only He knows what to do and when. Man can become an instrument of God only when he is pure enough. Until you have desires which are not in accordance with His you won't be an instrument. So if you want to become an instrument or just help God in His work you should find out what He wants.

With regards, Shankar

andrey
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Post by andrey » 18 Oct 2007

Is speaking the truth like being sentenced in court to you.
It will feel like force, truth obtained through force.

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john
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Post by john » 18 Oct 2007

bkdimok wrote: You are creating some dogmas.
No I am putting forward a concept. Which makes sense to me. A rule of thumb
First of all you don't know what is truth. So you don't know what to seek. You have some presentation and conception of truth. Only God knows what is truth indeed. Only He knows what to do and when. Man can become an instrument of God only when he is pure enough.
If you decide you are unable to find or know the truth, then indeed it will be best if others help you. If a piece of evidence is hidden, then it becomes revealed, then to me that is revealing the truth. So, what you are saying is, is that nobody should bother because no one will know the truth except God, well how do we then know who is God who knows/speaks this truth? At some point WE have to make a decision on what is true. That can only be helped by revealing all the matters concerned.

It's like like the game where a picture is covered apart from a small portion and someone tries to guess what it looks like, it can appear to look like something different when just a small portion is showing. That is why I believe all the Murlis and the Yagya history should be known, whilst you are happy to believe in the interpretation of the small portion of picture that is shown. From that you are building your foundation of spirituality and understanding, whilst I prefer to know all the details.
So if you want to become an instrument or just help God in His work you should find out what He wants.
You are totally contradicting yourself here, with your earlier statements.
1. You cannot remove your bad karma which you did. According to karma law you will receive so much sufferings as much you did to smb. You only can do not create new bad karma. Also you can create new good karma.
Then what is the meaning of karmateet and how does anyone become such?
4. I guess you know about predestination of Drama? This predestination occurs on the basis of the natural laws. One of them is Law of Karma
It is said in Murli, 'if you don't make any effort, then you won't even get a glass of water', which to me is Shiva's way of dealing with fatalist , who think 'what does it matter what we do, it is all in drama anyway'.

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john
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Post by john » 18 Oct 2007

Andrey wrote:It will feel like force truth obtained through force.
I am sorry it feels that way for you.

andrey
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Post by andrey » 18 Oct 2007

It will feel the same way for anyone.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 19 Oct 2007

I wrote:If the elder Brother fall into vicious habits and start to harm others, should not the younger Brother step forward to defend the innocent ones and by that the family reputation?
andrey wrote:What do you mean?
I started this topic to document the PBK view on the early history. Instead of just saying, "we don't know, we were not told about all this; this is all new, I will ask" as I would. You went on the defensive using the analogy of police and courts.

OK, I am sorry if my investigation threatens you or bursts your bubble but I hope it gives you leads and encourages you to investigate more yourself. Mostly, I think individuals will not because they have a 2,500 year old habit to prefer illusions. Do I mean Gyan is not true? No, I do not. But, let us just prove and illustrate it.

What do I mean? I mean the leadership of the BKWSU have hidden and falsified the history of the Yagya. They are now proven to have done so. You are tell me that to continue researching, to follow up any leads, is to act like a policeman ... is it my force of your resistance?

Why can it not be easy? Why can I not just ask once and get an answer? For all the 1,000,000 of hours of wind that has been expelled on the subject of the Brahma Kumaris ... why has the truth not be told in an adult fashion? How can illusion lead to truth?

OK. Please. If you cant add to the topic, please take your discussion elsewhere.

andrey
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Post by andrey » 20 Oct 2007

The point was that why are you always asking the questions to be answered, when you have to already have understood that nobody here or elsewhere is able or ready to answer. It does not necessarily indicate taste for truth but self promotion. You already don’t do it out of curiosity, but it has become a cause. What is the problem if we don’t know? It is just a very innocent thing. no one is ever accused about it. If we even show a pretension it is just because that we know something – this is what we present. Rest we also learn. See you are the only truth seeker along with john and all of us are just pleased by the sweet lie.

By asking questions again and again one may start thinking that you desire answers, but no, you just ask to show – see – you don’t even ask question, you are not interested, I’m interested, that’s why I ask, somehow I’m better isn’t it? Are we not all together aiming to find one and the same thing out of which we will be all content. Will the real truth not be beneficial to all of us you and me. Then why do you think that we may know it and will hide it. If we have not told means we don’t know. What is the use of asking again and again. Can we also not make our own research. Where is the need to bow in front of other in the form of “please, tell me”. The example is that impure kings bow down in front of pure kings. Bow down means they bow down their intellect, they say – “tell me the meaning of this” There is only one who never bows down to other he does not ask them for answers, but everyone goes and bows down in front of him and he gives answers to anyone, are we not aiming to become the same. (of course there are cases where one bows down and then denies) Do we not have the right to know as our birth right rather than obtained like alms or taken by force.

If it is like test like testing God, that what will he answer if he is God he may test you in return that what he will ask if he is my child. OK. If he does not say as I plan – he is not God. If you knew in advance what God is about to say what is the need to ask. This is also not asking for an answer, but with different motive. Then when the motive changes, could be the answer can change. It is also possible that one can adopt a wrong way, search in wrong direction, knocks on the wrong door. In such cases it is better for one to adopt some other way to redirect himself, change himself, when there is no success, rather than put more force out of which the success will not feel like success.

The question is why haven’t you already understood that there is no answer to your question. (at present). Then someone say see there is no answer – there is no Shiva. Well. You are the one who searches. If you have found there is no Shiva did you searched for this. Do you search so that you don’t find. If you have found that you don’t find then one can still find at some other time, other place. It is not the end of the world…oops…slip of the tongue.

The point is that the knowledge you desire can be perfectly obtained by any Dadi or Dada who has been there in the early periods of the Yagya. If you meet them personally and ask them for their honesty, watever you can receive as information this will not be the knowledge that comes from God, nor will you have met him. If the personal stories could uplif us then the AA would be the topmost people. If there are obstacles to this kind of personal sharing like stories then this is another fight to get this. But is this what we need? As for the PBK version of the Yagya history it has been mentoned many times at many places, why do you ask again?

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john
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Post by john » 20 Oct 2007

Dear brother Andrey

That is probably the most pointless load of **** I've ever had the misfortune to read. :roll:

andrey
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Post by andrey » 20 Oct 2007

Then where is the need to express your feeling? There is no compulsion to read so that to have distaste to express. There is always nice alternative where one can share positive emotions, or one can find something positive even in such ****, it is up to us.

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john
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Post by john » 20 Oct 2007

andrey wrote:There is alway nice alternative where one can share positive emotions.
That is true, so why don't you do it!?!??? Why are you always trying to put down those who are making real efforts to understand and make real (not fairytale) contributions?

andrey
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Post by andrey » 20 Oct 2007

If you are making real efforts to understand, you may find space wide enough for true seekers to coexist with fairytales lovers.

I was making suggestions to you because you were the one who have said to have felt misfortune. With chasing me away you may try to prove that I am your misfortune itself, but it is also an option you could have your own problem within yourself.

In trying to fix this one, may become more tolerant towards others and their point of view. If you promote yourself as the real true-seeker, i don't see why cannot i be close to you. It will be my fortune. Are you also not desirous to serve others?

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john
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Post by john » 20 Oct 2007

Though it may appear we have similar goals, the difference is I'd like to know all the details of the Yagya history and have all the Murlis available, I feel this will be a great benefit to myself and others.

You on the other hand just want to show off what a Pukka PBK you think you are.

andrey
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Post by andrey » 20 Oct 2007

Real goal is to change ourself from a man to a deity. If for this you need the details of the Yagya history and all the Murlis it is up to you. If you have mistaken the goal with the means (details, Murlis) it is up to you to pick up your aim. Generally, to know the details of the Yagya history or to have the Murlis cannot be a final aim. What we do next with it? As long as you have written yourself a reforming BK then maybe you have some reforming aim.

In the Murli, Baba has given us the aim to change from body-conscious to soul-conscious. To be a Pukka PBK can be a fine aim, because if we are pukka PBK we can become pukka deity, but it can also be a form of body-consciousness as you have given an example of showing off. That is not a virtue. If you have spotted this shortcoming, then it is surely because i have it in me, so please excuse me for it and i will make the corresponding effort to pay attention and remove it. Meanwhile, please forget it and don't keep it in your heart. If we are having a discussion it is because we don't like some aspects of ourselves. It could be one day we become fail-proof where there will be no need to observe and show fails.

As for the means to reach the aim of becoming a deity, as given by Baba in the Murli, he has said that one Murli is enough and there is no need even to go into the details of knowledge. He has appointed as the only method the method of rememberance (for which there is already plenty of discussion). But this is for a BK. Maybe you can have a different aim because you are different kind of BK. If your aim is this too then, yes, we have similar goals.

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