Who is the God of Gita - Krishna, Ram or Shiva baba?

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Post by bansy » 24 Dec 2007

Can anyone remind which souls are in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit during those few hours of the BapDada meetings in Madhuban held a few times a year ?

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Post by shivsena » 24 Dec 2007

suryavanshi wrote:Unity is possible only if there is purity. The first sangathan (group) of 12 souls (forget the remaining 96 because what is applicable to first 12, it is number waar for 96) will be united because of purity since there can be no unity possible without purity. So, for unity purity is a pre-requisite. So, if ShivBaba will come in future then how did these first 12 souls achieve that purity to be united because only ShivBaba can teach what is purity and how to become pure.
First look within the Advance Party and ask yourself : is there any purity in the pbk family (not mere abstinence of sex); is there any tolerance towards others; is there no-back-biting and par-chintan going on in the PBKs; are the PBKs remaining sheerkhand with each other or are they becoming loonpani with each other ; are the sisters in charge of various mini madhuban not behaving like the sisters of bk centers!!!!; there are many more criteria to be fulfilled before we can say that there is purity in pbk family; and the biggest proof that purity does not exist is there is no internal unity; it is said that ''majboori se mile hain dil se koi bhi nahin mila"( PBKs feign unity and they are far from being united).
andrey wrote:Dear Brother I have observed in you the way Maya operates as described in the Murli. There it is said that first she tries to separate us from the Father.
Dear andrey Bhai.

Since you have compared me to Maya, let me ask you "who is this Maya(female-she) whom we have to fight and overcome and get the title of mayajeet??? Is Maya the 5 vices inside us or is it some soul who represents the 5 vices in this chaitanya behad ka drama. And who is this Maya who is trying to seperate us from Father(which Father: Ramshivbaba or bindi ShivBaba??)

And finally who is mayapati bhagwan??

shivsena.

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Post by andrey » 24 Dec 2007

I think Maya is both inside and outside. Maypati bhagavan is the one who conquers it. (The soul of Ram who achives the title of Bhagawan. Since ShivBaba needs not fight and conquer any body-consciousness and Maya is the body-consciousness).

My opinion is that we have to fight only our weakness inside and no one outside. The one who wins this fight becomes mayajeet.

Maya is trying to separate us from both fathers (Ram and ShivBaba) for they are combined. She says that it is not possible that he has come (For whom is the coming refered? Is it for ShivBaba or Ram, for Ram is always here. The one who comes is ShivBaba)

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Post by suryavanshi » 24 Dec 2007

First look within the Advance Party and ask yourself : is there any purity in the PBK family (not mere abstinence of sex); is there any tolerance towards others; is there no-back-biting and par-chintan going on in the PBKs; are the PBKs remaining sheerkhand with each other or are they becoming loonpani with each other ; are the Sisters in charge of various mini Madhuban not behaving like the Sisters of BK centers!!!!; there are many more criteria to be fulfilled before we can say that there is purity in PBK family; and the biggest proof that purity does not exist is there is no internal unity; it is said that ''majboori se mile hain dil se koi bhi nahin mila"( PBKs feign unity and they are far from being united).
I am not talking about the unity among all the PBK Sisters and Brothers. I am just talking about the 12 first souls out of 108. There will be unity in them(12 souls) because of purity in them. Their basis of getting united is that they will be pure numberwise. So, before getting united they will have developed that purity in them because without developing that purity they cannot be united. So, first purity and then unity.

Since purity is first, that means they have learned the lesson of purity from someone before developing that stage. Because they developed that stage of purity, they were able to be united. So, who has taught them that lesson of purity or whom have they followed to become pure numberwise? Can one say that beads of mala will be revealed first and then they will become pure ? How can the mala (means sangathan) form without purity?
1) Birth of human soul is through the womb of the mother, whether it is soul of Ram or it is soul of Krishna ... they are born through womb of the mother in their last births. So, when we say 84 births, then soul of Krishna should have taken 84 births as described above. The soul of Krishna had his own body only till 1969 which was his last birth.

So, soul of Krishna in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit is not the owner of that body. It is not his body. He has not taken birth through the womb of the mother through that body. So, that cannot be considered as birth. It is the soul of Ram who has taken birth in that body in 1942. The soul of Krishna does not have it's own body like soul of Ram and we have.The soul of Krishna has just entered that body owned by soul of Ram. And entering someone's body is not called birth.

2) Chalo kuch samay ke liye yeh maan liyaa jaaye ki ShivBaba abhi nahi hain, future mein honge tab honge ... Lekin abhi aapko Shrimat dene waalaa kaun hain ...? Aap kiski mat par chaltein hon jab aap ke liye abhi baap hain hi nahi practical mein?
Yours answers are awaited to these posts.

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Post by bansy » 24 Dec 2007

Lots of various posts in this thread mention purity ... what is purity ?

There's no need to answer if you know what it is.

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Post by shivsena » 25 Dec 2007

andrey wrote:I think Maya is both inside and outside. Maypati bhagavan is the one who conquers it. (The soul of Ram who achives the title of Bhagawan
If soul of Ram is bhagwan then who is prajapita and Bharat??

shivsena.

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Post by shivsena » 25 Dec 2007

suryavanshi wrote: Chalo kuch samay ke liye yeh maan liyaa jaaye ki ShivBaba abhi nahi hain, future mein honge tab honge ... Lekin abhi aapko Shrimat dene waalaa kaun hain ...? Aap kiski mat par chaltein hon jab aap ke liye abhi baap hain hi nahi practical mein?
As i have previously mentioned that the whole 60 to 70 years is given to BKs and PBKs to study the knowledge given in Murlis to find out who is Alaf (one who attains the 100% nirakari stage). There cannot be any Shrimat during the shooting period as Shrimat is given only by Shri Shri ShivBaba in Confluence Age and no one else. Bindi shiv cannot be called Shri Shri ShivBaba. Shri Shri ShivBaba is the title given to Ram's soul only and only He can give Shrimat and when he gives Shrimat then there is chadti kala and sadgati for all those who hear from his mouth.

shivsena.

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Post by suryavanshi » 25 Dec 2007

As I have previously mentioned that the whole 60 to 70 years is given to BKs and PBKs to study the knowledge given in Murlis to find out who is Alaf (one who attains the 100% nirakari stage). There cannot be any Shrimat during the shooting period as Shrimat is given only by Shri Shri ShivBaba in Confluence Age and no one else. Bindi Shiv cannot be called Shri Shri ShivBaba. Shri Shri ShivBaba is the title given to Ram's soul only and only He can give Shrimat and when he gives Shrimat then there is chadti kala and sadgati for all those who hear from his mouth.
Do you mean to say there is no Shrimat in the Murlis ? If so, then without Shrimat , how can soul of Ram and the other beads of rudramala (who are numberwise after soul of Ram) acheive the nirakari stage or become pure to be united?
Birth of human soul is through the womb of the mother, whether it is soul of Ram or it is soul of Krishna ... they are born through womb of the mother in their last births. So, when we say 84 births, then soul of Krishna should have taken 84 births as described above. The soul of Krishna had his own body only till 1969 which was his last birth.

So, soul of Krishna in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit is not the owner of that body. It is not his body. He has not taken birth through the womb of the mother through that body. So, that cannot be considered as birth. It is the soul of Ram who has taken birth in that body in 1942. The soul of Krishna does not have it's own body like soul of Ram and we have.The soul of Krishna has just entered that body owned by soul of Ram. And entering someone's body is not called birth.
Your answer is awaited.

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Post by shivsena » 25 Dec 2007

1) Birth of human soul is through the womb of the mother, whether it is soul of Ram or it is soul of Krishna ... they are born through womb of the mother in their last births. So, when we say 84 births, then soul of Krishna should have taken 84 births as described above. The soul of Krishna had his own body only till 1969 which was his last birth.

So, soul of Krishna in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit is not the owner of that body. It is not his body. He has not taken birth through the womb of the mother through that body. So, that cannot be considered as birth. It is the soul of Ram who has taken birth in that body in 1942. The soul of Krishna does not have it's own body like soul of Ram and we have.The soul of Krishna has just entered that body owned by soul of Ram. And entering someone's body is not called birth.
Dear suryavanshi Bhai.

This is the greatest mystery in Godly knowledge: to know which is the 84th birth of Krishna!!
Lekhraj Kirpalani was not the 84th birth; it was 83rd birth of Krishna; 84th birth of Krishna is completed by Ram's body(Virendra Dev Dixit) and whosoever can understand this fact will understand the secret of Brahma so Vishnu and Vishnu so brahma; it is said in Murlis, Vishnu so brahma takes 5000 years and brahma so Vishnu takes one second; so that one second when Krishna will become brahma is still to come and only when Ram attains the nirakari stage, then brahma so Vishnu will be revealed in one second.
  • Lekhraj Kirpalani = 83 birth of Krishna.
    Sevakram = 83 birth of Ram.
    Virendra Dev Dixit = 84th birth of Ram;
but Ram never completes his 84th birth as he gives this body to Krishna when he embarks on his journey to attain the nirakari stage; Krishna takes control of Ram's body as early as 1972-73 and this whole advance knowledge is invention of mayavi Krishna to play prank(time-pass) on BKs and PBKs and to see who studies the Murlis and recognises Ram Alaf and who is just content to hear Murlis from Didis and cds.
It has never been said in Murlis that Ram takes full 84th birth. Why????????? (because Ram never completes his 84th birth). It is Krishna(Bharat) who completes the 84th birth through Virendra Dev Dixit and then Ramshivbaba re-incarnates to make him ''Nar se Narayan".
suryavanshi wrote: Do you mean to say there is no Shrimat in the Murlis ? If so, then without Shrimat , how can soul of Ram and the other beads of rudramala(who are numberwise after soul of Ram) acheive the nirakari stage or become pure to be united? Your answer is awaited
If there was Shrimat in Murlis then it is said that ''Shrimat se sadgati'' and there is not a single soul in BKs and PBKs who has got sadgati. Murlis contain only knowledge in code form to know the parts of Ram (rachieta) and Krishna (rachna) and whosoever de-codes the knowledge will be eligible to hear Shrimat directly from God Ramshivbaba which will give sadgati numberwise. Those who do not solve the mystery of the creator (Ram) and his creation (Krishna) will then become Royal praja and ordinary praja.

shivsena.

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Post by arjun » 25 Dec 2007

When I see Ram and Shiv as a single entity, then this body of Veerendra Dev Dixit belongs to Krishna (as Ram becomes 100% a-shariri). So for me this body of Veerendra Dev Dixit then becomes the 84th birth of Krishna and so Krishna at the end of 84th birth becomes Prajapita Brahma and Bharat (no. 1 patit brashtachari soul of the behad ka drama) in whom Ramshivbaba then re-incarnates and makes him into no. 1 pure soul.
How can Ram and Shiv be a single entity? Everyone knows that souls can neither be created nor destroyed. So, how can two souls merge to become one?

How can a soul who is entering into another soul's body become its owner? Will the world accept it? Will the BKWSU accept all the court notices in the name of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit if they are told that it is the soul of Dada Lekhraj which is responsible for all the actions that have been performed through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit? :D
On the other hand, if only bindi Shiv is remembered as ShivBaba in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit, then PBKs view Ram as sharir-dhari and they then consider Ram as Prajapita and Bharat (which has never been said in the Murlis directly) and the present false status of Advanced Knowledge (jhooti Krishna ki Gita) continues to cause the downfall of PBKs. This is what I do not agree to (as per the Murlis) and this is what I want to oppose and highlight to PBKs sleeping in the night of Brahma.
PBKs are not remembering Bindi Shiv as ShivBaba, but Shiv through the body of Ram. If PBKs cannot achieve anything by remembering Shiv in Ram's body, how can you achieve anything by remembering the soul of effort-maker Ram in his impure body?
If there was Shrimat in Murlis then it is said that ''Shrimat se sadgati'' and there is not a single soul in BKs and PBKs who has got sadgati. Murlis contain only knowledge in code form to know the parts of Ram(rachieta) and Krishna(rachna)
If there is no Shrimat in Murlis then how does the soul of Ram become equal to Shiv? Is it through inspiration? If the soul of Ram alone is the Creator, then what is the role of Shiv? Does He exist or not? If He exists, who is greater - Shiv or Ram?

If there is no Shrimat in the Murlis, then how did you assume that RamShivbaba will get revealed in January, 2010? Or is it your manmat?

Earlier you used to talk about 2009-10. Now you talk of Jan, 2010. I hope you would stick to your present prediction till Jan, 2010.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by andrey » 25 Dec 2007

If soul of Ram is bhagwan then who is Prajapita and Bharat??
Amongst the human souls there is one who is the oldest, the greates and this is Prajapita – the Father of all the human souls or Adam. How do you think will he be the one who will become Bhagawan or will it be someone else minor?

It also happens that India or Bharat is motherland (fatherland) for all so it is the same one Bhagawan, Prajapita, Bharat, Ram. Krishna is child. If Krishna were Bharat, then India (Bharat) would become childland.

It is also said in the Murli that Prajapita cannot be in the suble region, but is required here in the corporeal world. After Krishna is subtle-world dweller can he be Prajapita?

Also Prajapita is said to be Father of all. Can Krishna be Prajapita provided he himself has a Father?

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Post by pbkdivya » 25 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote: only 108 souls will become like Father.
NO. Only 8 will become bap-samaan.
It all depends on what one wants to see; I would rather see Ram as nirakari stage ShivBaba, than see bindi ShivBaba as Ram;
How are you going to see Ram's nirakari stage when Rambap hasn't attained his 100% incorporeal stage yet?
I just cannot remember or relate to bindi ShivBaba but I can very well relate to Ramshivbaba (as it gives me the encouragement and inspiration to attain the nirakari stage like him;

How can you relate to Ramshivbaba when as per your views, the soul of Ram has given his body to Krishna?
shivsena wrote:I just want to make the PBKs aware that the Advanced Knowledge is not the last word in Godly knowledge and there maybe more than what is taken for granted by PBKs.
Most PBKs are aware that there is going to be new knowledge where everything wil be revealed. They are aware that advance knowledge is not the last segment of the Godly study.
then in the end they may call me selfish for not sharing the gems of knowledge.
Please, no one will call you selfish as you too will leave the Father's hand. If you are under the assumption that all of your views are accurate, then you will be the only one who will not leave the Father's hand, but it is not so.
(as Ram becomes 100% a-shariri).
If Ram becomes a-shariri, then how does Ram becomes Ravan?

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Post by arjun » 25 Dec 2007

Om Shanti.

Today, as I was churning on Shivsena's concept of RamShivbaba, a thought occured to me that just as BKs put 'pitashri' (i.e. Brahma Baba/Dada Lekhraj/soul of Golden Aged Krishna) before 'ShivBaba Yaad hai' in the Murlis and thus committed the blunder of making the son (i.e. Krishna) the God of Gita instead of ShivBaba, in the same way, are we not witnessing a phenomenon in the Confluence Age where the soul of Ram is being placed ahead of ShivBaba and being presented as the God of Gita instead of ShivBaba????

It may be noted that ShivBaba has never used the term 'RamShivbaba' in the Sakar Murlis or Avyakt Vanis or in the clarification Murlis.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by suryavanshi » 25 Dec 2007

Ram never completes his 84th birth as he gives this body to Krishna
That's what I am saying sharir mein praveshta cannot be called janma or birth. Soul of Dada lekhrej or Krishna has entered the body of Ram and not taken birth through that body.

If this is our 84 birth, then we have taken birth in that body. We have our bodily Father and mother who gave birth to this body. One cannot accept praveshta of soul of Krishna in body of Veerendra Dev Dixit as another birth.
If there was Shrimat in Murlis then it is said that ''Shrimat se sadgati'' and there is not a single soul in BKs and PBKs who has got sadgati.
Then how did Ram burn all his vices of 63 births and achieve the Nirakaari Stage?
I am not talking about the unity among all the PBK Sisters and Brothers. I am just talking about the 12 first souls out of 108. There will be unity in them(12 souls) because of purity in them. Their basis of getting united is that they will be pure numberwise. So, before getting united they will have developed that purity in them because without developing that purity they cannot be united. So, first purity and then unity.

Since purity is first, that means they have learned the lesson of purity from someone before developing that stage. Because they developed that stage of purity, they were able to be united. So, who has taught them that lesson of purity or whom have they followed to become pure numberwise? Can one say that beads of mala will be revealed first and then they will become pure ? How can the mala (means sangathan) form without purity?
Your answer is awaited.

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