Who is the God of Gita - Krishna, Ram or Shiva baba?

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Post by pbkdivya » 29 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:in the meantime please do me a favour: please please please do not reply to my posts and I will be most grateful to you.
Dear brother,

You always like to follow Rambap's nirakari stage, so please do not forget to follow Rambap's non-offensive speech too.

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Post by arjun » 29 Dec 2007

Quoted from the BK section for the kind attention of Shivsena Bhai:

73.

"Tum kahtey ho Parampita Parmatma hamko padhaatey hain. Voh log kahtey vah sarvavyapi hain. Padhaayengey kaisey? Bahut matha maarnaa padtaa hai. Ek bachchi nay samachaar likha – ek seth nay prashna poocha tum shaastra padhee ho? Usnay kaha Parmatma nay hamko shaastron kaa saar samjhaya hai. Hamara doosra guru hai nahee. Toh vah apnee teek-teek karney lagaa ki shaastra jaroor padhnaa chaahiye. Yah karnaa chaahiye. Vah suntee rahee. Parantu badey aadmiyon ko samjhaaney kee himmat chaahiye. Kahnaa chaahiye ki yah theek hai. Ved shaastra padhnaa hai parantu Bhagwaanuvaach – ki inhay padhney say merey saath koi mil nahee saktey, mukti-jeevanmukti paa nahee saktey. Pehli baat yah samjhaani chaahiye – Parampita Parmatma kay saath aapka kya sambandh hai? Bhal aap nagar seth ho sirf ek baat aapsey poochtey hain? Dekhnaa chaahiye kya jawaab detey hain kyonki Baap ko sab bhooley huay hain. Toh pehley parichay dena padey. Parantu bachchey aisi-aisi baatein bhool jaatey hain." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 03.11.07, pg 2)

“You say that the Supreme Father Supreme Soul teaches us. Those people say that He is omnipresent. How can He teach? One has to spoil one’s head a lot. A daughter had reported: a merchant (seth) asked whether she had read any scriptures? She said, “The Supreme Soul has explained to us the essence of the scriptures. We don’t have any other guru.” Then he started telling that one should certainly read scriptures. One should like this. She went on listening. But one should have courage to explain the big personalities. One should tell – this is alright. One should read the Veds and scriptures, but God says that – nobody can meet me by reading these scriptures. They cannot achieve mukti-jeevanmukti. First of all one must explain – what is your relationship with the Supreme Father Supreme Soul? Although you are the biggest merchant of the city, we ask you just one question. One should observe what kind of a reply he gives because everyone has forgotten the Father. So, one should give the introduction first. But children forget such matters." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 03.11.07, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

Dear brother,

Om Shanti. With the vast churning capabilities and the vast treasure of original Murlis that you have, you are our Nagar Seth and hence I would also like to ask you the same question that Baba is asking the BK sister to ask the Nagar seth in the above Murli quote? Since you have already mentioned your relationship with the Supreme Soul, i.e. the soul of Confluence-Aged Ram, I wish to ask - What is your relationship with the Supreme Father Shiv?

You want to condemn the entire advance knowledge calling it Mayavi Krishna's invention, but can the scriptures of the Brahmin world that you are quoting help us in achieving the inheritance of mukti and jeevanmukti?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by shivsena » 29 Dec 2007

Dear arjun Bhai.

Please go through the Murli points below and draw your own conclusion.

Murli 5-6-02; Shiva says, "Tum atma Ramshivbaba Shri Shri ki mat par chalte ho", ( ''you souls follow the mat given by Ramshivbaba Shri Shri'' )
In the above Murli, Shiva clearly sees Ram as Shri Shri ShivBaba (shri shri means shreshta-se-shreshta); Shri Shri ka title is given to Ram when Ram attains the 100% nirakari stage and then He will make others 'shri' ; Shri Shri ka title cannot be given to bindishiv. So clearly Ram cannot be prajapita or Bharat.

Murli 23-3-86, Shiva says, ''Pukarte hain, Hey Ram aakar ke Bharat ko pavan swarg banao; kahete bhi hain parantu samajte kuch bhi nahin.'' (''They call hey Ram please come and make Bharat a pure heaven; They sing but do not understand anything")
In the above Murli Shiva has clearly made a distinction between Ram and Bharat as two seperate souls and not the same soul; and who is calling Ram to make Bharat a pure heaven; it is the PBKs who will call Ram in the end, when this Bharat(Krishna in Virendra Dev Dixit) will become 100% brashtari and will become narak-vaishyalaya; they will call Him but will not understand His nirakari Stage.

shivsena.

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Post by shivsena » 29 Dec 2007

pbkdivya wrote:You always like to follow Rambap's nirakari stage, so please do not forget to follow Rambap's non-offensive speech too.
Dear divya.

Neither Ram has become 100% nirakari stage nor i have become like Rambap; when Rambap reaches his stage, then i will reach mine numberwise and then i will also become rahamdil and sweet like Rambap.

shivsena.

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Post by shivsena » 29 Dec 2007

arjun wrote: Since you have already mentioned your relationship with the Supreme Soul, i.e. the soul of Confluence-Aged Ram, I wish to ask - What is your relationship with the Supreme Father Shiv?
The same relationship you have with supreme Father shiv.
You want to condemn the entire Advanced Knowledge calling it Mayavi Krishna's invention, but can the scriptures of the Brahmin world that you are quoting help us in achieving the inheritance of mukti and jeevanmukti?
Arjun
The scriptures of bk or pbk can never help anybody in achieving mukti and jeevan-mukti.
The gates of mukti and jeevan mukti will open only when Ramshivbaba starts giving true Gita knowledge in the near future.
Do you think that advance knowledge will open the Gates for you???
shivsena.

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Post by pbkdivya » 30 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:BKs think that bindi ShivBaba is God of Gita
Why are you always mentioning the term 'bindi ShivBaba' as ShivBaba denotes that bindi Shiv is in a corporeal body. When ShivBaba doesn't have a body, then it is said as 'bindi Shiv'. Even a newcomer in knowledge understands this simple fact as when Supreme Soul Shiv enters into a corporeal body, then He is called 'ShivBaba' and not 'bindi ShivBaba'. One cannot correlate 'bindi Shiv' with 'bindi ShivBaba".
Neither Ram has become 100% nirakari stage nor I have become like Rambap; when Rambap reaches his stage, then I will reach mine numberwise and then I will also become rahamdil and sweet like Rambap.
Eventhough Rambap hasn't still attained his 100% nirakari stage yet, he is never offensive in his speech and those who follow him in every aspect will become a bead closer to him.

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Post by pbkdivya » 30 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:
BKs think that bindi ShivBaba is God of Gita
Why are you always mentioning the term 'bindi ShivBaba' as ShivBaba denotes that bindi Shiv is in a corporeal body. When ShivBaba doesn't have a body, then it is said as 'bindi Shiv'. Even a newcomer in knowledge understands this simple fact as when Supreme Soul Shiv enters into a corporeal body, then He is called 'ShivBaba' and not 'bindi ShivBaba'. One cannot correlate 'bindi Shiv' with 'bindi ShivBaba".

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Post by andrey » 30 Dec 2007

Shri Shri ka title cannot be given to bindishiv.
Please, explain why do you consider it is like this.

I think that shri shri is just a title to bindi shiv. When human beings are degraded they don't have the title of shri. When they get it they are called singles shri. The one who never loses this title and who makes all the rest elevated is not the soul of Ram (as he loses his title), but the soul of Shiv. (who makes even the soul of Ram elevated).

So i think that the soul of Shiv deserves the title of shri shri rather than the soul of Ram. You may think that this kind of vision will just put me in the list of subjects as per your own view, but according to the Murli the one who teaches Raja Yoga is not any human being. It is not you who will decide who will claim which post.
So clearly Ram cannot be Prajapita or Bharat.

Please, point where did you draw this conclusion from out of the quote that you have quoted.
Murli 5-6-02; Shiva says, "Tum atma Ramshivbaba Shri Shri ki mat par chalte ho", ( ''you souls follow the mat given by Ramshivbaba Shri Shri'' )

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Post by new knowledge » 30 Dec 2007

Dear PBK brothers & also PBK sisters, let's return to the central theme of this thread. Some queries for churning. Answers are not expected.

* Who is the God of Gita? -
  • a) Bindi Shiv?
    b) Piyu?
    c) Ram?
    d) Krishna?
    e) Bindi Shiv in the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani?
    f)Bindi Shiv in the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit?
    g) Ram's soul (combined with Bindi Shiv) in Ram's body?
    h) Ram's soul (combined with Bindi Shiv) in Krishna' body?
* What is connection between Gita-Jayantee, Shiv-Jayantee & Krishna-Jayantee?
Here whose Jayantee is entitled as Shiv-Jayantee? - That of Bindi Shiv or Piyu or Ram or that of Bindi Shiv in the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani or Bindi Shiv in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit or that of soul of Ram in Ram's body or soul of Ram in Krishna's body?

* What is Gita-Gyan? -
  • a) Speeches of Piyu (Piyu ki Vani)?
    b) Murli?
    c) Avyakt Vani?
    d) Both Murli & Avyakt Vani?
    e) Only clarifications of Murlis & Avyakt Vanis (by Bindi Shiv, Ram & Krishna) through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit since 1976?
    f) All Murlis, Avyakt Vanis & their clarifications through Virendra Dev Dixit?
    g) Or only the clarifications of Murlis & Avyakt Vanis by ONLY the soul of Ram (& not Bindi Shiv & Krishna) through the body of Ram?
    h) Or only the clarifications of Murlis & Avyakt Vanis by ONLY the soul of Ram (& not Bindi Shiv & Krishna) through the body of Krishna?
* Who is this Krishna whose Gita is mentioned as Jhutee Gita (which leads to Durgatee - degradation - of BKWSU world) in Murlis? -
  • a) Soul of Krishna through the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani?
    b) Soul of Krishna through the body of Virendra Dev Dixit?
    c)Or Virendra Dev Dixit through his own body?
* Who is GeetaaPutra (son of Gita) Krishna? -
  • a) Confluence Aged Krishna? Or
    b) Golden Aged Krishna?

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Post by shivsena » 30 Dec 2007

Dear arjun Bhai.

In Murlis it is said, "Murli se pyar toh Murlidhar se pyar".

Can you please give your views as to who is this ''Murlidhar''?

shivsena.

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Post by arjun » 30 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:The same relationship you have with supreme Father Shiv.
You call the soul of Krishna as the most Mayavi soul, but the reply given by you above is no less illusive. You could have given a direct reply but you preferred not to.
Do you think that Advanced Knowledge will open the Gates for you???
Definitely. For me whatever Father Shiv is narrating through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit is Advance knowledge even now and will remain advanced knowledge even after Jan, 2010.
Neither Ram has become 100% nirakari stage nor I have become like Rambap; when Rambap reaches his stage, then I will reach mine numberwise and then I will also become rahamdil and sweet like Rambap.
You believe the Sakar Murlis to be words of Shiv. Kindly tell me in which Murli has He said that you have to imbibe all the knowledge being given from 1936 to 1969 has to be imbibed after Jan, 2010???? If every soul aims to imbibe divine virtues after Jan, 2010 then there is no question of any soul undergoing the shooting of sato, rajo and tamo stages in the Confluence Age at all. Were you in the same stage at the beginning of the Brahmin life as you are in now?
In Murlis it is said, "Murli se pyar toh Murlidhar se pyar". Can you please give your views as to who is this ''Murlidhar''?
For me Murlidhar is Supreme Father Shiv through the body of Confluence-Aged Ram (i.e. Baba Virendra Dev Dixit).

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by shivsena » 31 Dec 2007

arjun wrote: For me Murlidhar is Supreme Father Shiv through the body of Confluence-Aged Ram (i.e. Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit).
Dear arjun Bhai.

Thanks for your views about murlidhar.

My churning says that Shiva is not murlidhar; He has just narrated the Murlis through Lekhraj Kirpalani so Shiv can be called the "Narrator of Murlis"; in my view, Murlidhar means one who imbibes and understand the Murlis of Shiva 100% intellectually, and this title of 'Murlidhar' fits aptly on Ramshivbaba when he will attain the 100% nirakari stage; shivbindi is not murlidhar to me, as he does not need to dharan his own Murlis; My aim is to reach murlidhar Ramshivbaba through the Murlis of Shiva (Shiva ki Murli se pyar toh murlidhar Ramshivbaba se pyar); bindishiv cannot experience nor give any pyar.

shivsena.

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Post by suryavanshi » 31 Dec 2007

bindishiv cannot experience nor give any pyar.
Supreme Soul Shiv is the Father whose corporeal form is Ram (lawful) and Supreme Soul Shiv is the Mother whose corporeal form is Brahma (loveful). So, it is for one only (Supreme Soul Shiv) who plays the role of Father as well as Mother. So, we have to remember Him in the body of Ram. So, He only gives us love and then He only becomes lawful for the wicked ones.

If these two sharirdhari (Ram and Krishna) are only everything, then why were they not lawful and loveful in their past 63 births respectively. How did they suddenly become lawful and loveful in their last birth respectively?

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Post by new knowledge » 31 Dec 2007

My dear brother shivsena, what's your concept of Krishna & Narayan? Do you think that the same soul (of Dada Lekhraj) plays the role of Krishna & Narayan?
  • * Do you mean that Krishna is the immatured intellectual stage of Brahma? And also do you think that when Brahma becomes matured in his intellectual stage, he may be entitled as Narayan?

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Post by shivsena » 31 Dec 2007

new knowledge wrote:My dear Brother shivsena, what's your concept of Krishna & Narayan? Do you think that the same soul (of Dada Lekhraj) plays the role of Krishna & Narayan?
* Do you mean that Krishna is the immatured intellectual stage of Brahma? And also do you think that when Brahma becomes matured in his intellectual stage, he may be entitled as Narayan?
Dear brother.

I believe that Sangamyugi Krishna is the role played by Krishna through the body of Virendra Dev Dixit (this is mentioned in Advance Literature and also in cassette no 393) and will be revealed only to vijaymala souls in the viraat roop and it is said in Murlis that Krishna only becomes Narayan (16 * pure) ; so there is no question about Ram being Sangamyugi Krishna or Narayan, as Ram becomes Ramshivbaba. (beyond any kalaa)

shivsena.

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