Mukhri Mata funding

sakaash
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Mukhri Mata funding

Post by sakaash » 28 Apr 2008

Hello everyone,

cannot believe I am writing on here ... it feels like I shouldn't but, I've been reading a lot of the threads, and there are a lot of like minded people on here.

Anyway, I guess I'll give a brief intro of myself ... I took the course when I was very young ... I stopped for a few years and then did the course again later, so officially I've been "in Gyan" for just over a couple years. Anyway, I started questioning things when I started to see the darker side of the Senior Sister in charge of the centre I go to. So much of what I read on the forums really does ring true and I wonder if I am being duped, I do sincerely want to find God and the truth, and maybe this has left me open and vulnerable.

I go to class every morning, forget Amrit Vela, it just won't happen and I follow the diet as well ... so I am more BK than ex-BK but, still, I was hoping to connect with you all, for some advice.

I recently heard that there is a new building being constructed called Mukhri Mata and it will hold 5,000 people. Dadi Janki sort of in a roundabout way asked for donations to put towards this mammoth task of getting this building ready before the next season ... so I've been thinking about giving some of my hard earned cash for this - I went to the bank today and took out quite a bit and then it hit me ... am I falling for something here? Am I being duped into giving away my money? I know I shouldn't think of it as my money but still - I wonder ... does anyone have any advice please?

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Re: MukriMata

Post by bkti-pit » 28 Apr 2008

Welcome to the Forum Sakaash and congratulations for joining in.

The only advice I can give, maybe, is to take the time to search this site for more information about the financial side of the BKWSU. Others here may be able to guide you better than me on this. Then you will be able to take your decision based on a broader perspective.

Your question leaves me perplexed and I thank you for bringing it up. I came to the BKs in 1983, became fully involved a few years later and am currently living in a big Center as a fully surrendered BK. I have seen a lot of good things but also many not so good and I have serious ethical concerns with how money and finances are handled within the BKWSU. Your question is forcing me to think over my current involvement with the institution.

Seeing that I cannot in my conscience tell you "Yes, go ahead, it is a good thing to donate for this cause", I wonder why then would it be a good thing to give it my time and energy. This will be an interesting reflexion. :!:

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Re: MukriMata

Post by pilatus » 28 Apr 2008

Hello Sakaash, welcome to the forum and thanks for your intro. Normally I wouldn't presume to advise someone about what to do with their money but since you've asked the question ...

As bkti-pit says, you'll find several threads and personal experiences on the forum which relate to the BK's and money. I'd suggest that you may want to take time reviewing them before deciding what to do. Some of the key questions you might want to consider are: can I afford to give this money away? how committed am I to the BK cause? are there are other equally good causes I'd consider donating the money to? can I see the money issue getting in the way of my relationship with the BK family later on?

I appreciate that cultural/family differences may be involved but sometimes bringing (significant amounts of) money into a loving relationship can prove detrimental in the longer-term, e.g. I've seen it affecting lokik families and long-term friendships.

Hope this helps. If not, feel free to ignore it :lol:.

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haste makes waste

Post by alladin » 28 Apr 2008

Hi, Sakaash and very welcome.

I hope you can chase away the guilty feeling for posting here. I am not particularily qualified to give you any info for what concerns BKs and finances. My humble advice, after an interaction of well over 20 years with the BKs, is; ponder well, do not let any enthusiasm, tangible or subtle pressure or "touchings from Baba" lead you into making any donation. I simply write on the basis of my experience, of things that happened and I witnessed and heard of. You may later regret having given away - probably - hard earned money. I don't know about the accountant books of the BK, how they accumulate wealth and properties, their investments, what they are really up to. You can read a lot about it on this forum.

In my experience, luckily, it was the very obvious - due to the non-transparent behaviour I saw in sisters-in-charge of centers I was attending - way they persuade students and contacts to donate and how they use the money often for personal interests, airplane tickets, facilities, etc that I shouldn't deprive myself of anything and give it to them. At the moment I feel they are no longer my idealized spiritual family made of angels, but just individuals that often are opportunists and users, and they are instructed by Seniors themselves to milk cows in every possible way, whilst abusing the poor cows! :cry:

Once you give, there's no control about where it goes to and what the intentions really are.

I strongly recommend you read topics on the Forum, which relate to brainwashing, hypnosis, mental conditioning etc ... I took a lot of benefit from reading and churning about such matters. It confirmed all the impressions I had collected over the years. Something stinks.
Last thing; do not rush, take your time, "haste makes waste". Do not let anyone push you directly or indirectly. I know that BKs end up feeling terrible if they do not please Seniors, if they do not conform or obey, because that results in quickly acquiring a bad reputation in this sect. We know all the tricks and slogans, like "creating your fortune. Best insurance is giving to Baba. Everything will turn to dust anyway" ...

In fact, we don't need their approval or breadcrumbs and scraps. People who call themselves as "spiritual leaders" and cannot love others unconditionally, do not deserve our obedience or attention.

Love, peace and take Sakash from your God always, it's the best antidote and talisman that can protect us from our fears, lies we are told and energies that try to influence and manipulate us.

sakaash
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Re: MukriMata

Post by sakaash » 28 Apr 2008

Thank you all sooooo much for making me feel welcome ...

bkti-pit, I did not want my questioning to force anyone to think about their involvement with the BKs. Honestly, I cannot shake the guilt for posting on here in the first place ... and it makes me shudder to think that I may be part of what makes someone who is fully surrendered and been with the BKs for such a long time to rethink and maybe even leave, just because I do believe that the BKs have something to offer all of us. If we can just get past the sanskars of those running the place, there probably won't even be a need for this forum ... I honestly believe that the main problem with the BKs all originate from how people interpret and misinterpret Gyan and often add their own bits.

I think I will give something, not to secure may place in the Golden Age (we were told the story of Sudama and the handful of rice!) but because I can see the good impact that the Bk teachings have had on me!

Thank you for your help with my question!

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Re: MukriMata

Post by bansy » 28 Apr 2008

The word to use is "abundance". If it really nothing to do with BKs or not, it is applicable in any situation.

You can only give things away when you have abundance. You can give away clothes if you have too many. Your can give some cabbages if you have too many. You can donate virtues when you are full and knowledgeble of one virtue. You can give power to another is you have that power yourself. You can give away money if you can afford to. If only a brick, then albeit only a brick. The only conscience is for oneself to judge and not another. If you give something away with even the smallest hint of expecting something in return, you will be disppointed.

Sakaash, your posting on this subject suggests doubt on your part, so hold back and wait until if or when time is right. Or do so and contribute but without further regret.

However, if Dadi Janki has asked for donations, then there seems to be an element of begging.

Whilst it may be good to build some new facilities, but it is equally good also not to build it. After all, if it can hold 5,000, why not 10,000, or 20,000 or 50,000 etc ? Desires. Expectations. Egos.

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Re: MukriMata

Post by sakaash » 28 Apr 2008

Thanks for that Bansy. You know the "element of begging" thing is what got to me, it was the first time I heard this type of thing in Yoga. I expressed this to someone at the time and was told that Dadi Janki was with family and who better to ask for money other than family! I felt bad that I made my initial observation. I know I said earlier that I will donate, but my reasons will not matter to anyone but me, I think I will check how I feel in a couple of days time, the deadline date for handing over the cash is Sunday since Dadi Janki will be returning to India on Monday and would like to take the offerings with her.

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Re: MukriMata

Post by peterbindi » 28 Apr 2008

Dear Sakaash.

Q.No.43. There is a competition among all the religions including Brahmakumari Vidyalaya in collecting money and property. As per your literature all the Spiritual Centres and Gita Pathshalas of Adhyatmik Vidyalaya, except the Spiritual Centres at Delhi/ Kampil are being run in the houses of its members only. What are the reasons behind Adhyatmik Vidyalaya not collecting money and property?

Ans: Supreme Father Shiva has directed in the Murlis that there is no need to construct buildings except the main spiritual service centre. That is why, except the Spiritual Service Centres of Adhyatmik Vidyalaya at Delhi/ Kampil, where Prajapita Brahmakumar-Kumaris from all over the world come for spiritual training, buildings have not been constructed for Adhyatmik Vidyalaya anywhere else. In respect of Brahmakumari Vidyalaya the direction of Supreme Father Shiva is that there is no need for constructing buildings for the service centers of Brahma Kumaris except at Mount Abu, which is the Headquarters of Brahma Kumaris. Continue to hire accommodation on rent for spreading the Divine Message because there is no meaning in acquiring property in this old world which is going to be destroyed.

With all respect for you and the bk,s I find this in the pbk section question and answer with Baba.

peterbindi.

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Re: MukriMata

Post by fluffy bunny » 28 Apr 2008

Sakaash wrote:I recently heard that there is a new building being constructed called MukriMata and it will hold 5,000 people. Dadi Janki sort of in a roundabout way asked for donations to put towards this mammoth task of getting this building ready before the next season ... so I've been thinking about giving some of my hard earned cash for this -
Hi Sakaash.

welcome on board.

My first response is that Dadi Janki does not "sort of in a roundabout way" ask for money. She is highly skilled and dedicated to the process of extracting money from followers and has been so for decades. I would go as far to say it is her greatest strength for the Yagya and question whether it was a deciding factor in her appointment as "Global Chief" (a decision we, the followers, were never really let into the discussion of).

My second response is to say that according to the Shrimat of the Sakar Murlis, it was against Shrimat to invest money in all these big properties and I have never seen on record when that Shrimat changed. Others, including the accountant Ramesh I am sure, could probably fill us in on that.

You are probably aware that I am "the forum monster", labelled a one person anti-party by some. But, to be honest, I was and am equally inspired by a search for 'God and the truth', was 'open and vulnerable' when I met the Brahma-kumaris and still wish to serve humanity ... but in my own way now.

I can remember in the early days Janki Kripalani sitting laughing in class saying how, (approx) "we tell people every thing is for free but then we take everything from them; mind, body and wealth". I recall one specific morning in the first main western center. They were laughing because that day a group of newcomers had come ... and they were never seen again! We were pulled into the laughter because, of course, we thought we were superior and our surrender to them, the Brahma-kumaris, made us feel special. Note, I do not say 'surrender to God' or humanity.

My feeling is that God does not need to be served, and certainly not financially. Humanity does. My intellect says that in this day and age of technology, impressive big buildings with business class or VIP lounges are not as necessary and "the message" can be given to many by other cheaper means. It also strikes me that the original model was for a "family path", e.g. grassroots service household to household, not a "corporate path".

My concerns and suggested avenue for you would be, as Baba instructs us to be, a "clever businessman" and investigate your proposed investment a little further before you are drawn in emotionally. If I had serious areas of concern, it would be NOT about the historical and philosophical revision happening at the hands of the BKWSU leadership BUT with the response to this having been discovered and discussed. Before handing over your stored security in the form of money, I would want to discuss with them in the form of a business investment, the handling of their business.

If you do not feel at ease doing so, or if they make you feel at disease doing so, or if they fail or refuse to respond to you inquiries easily, or if they react ... then I think you have answered you own question. These are not people you can trust to do business with. Pick any of the anomalies, contradictions or case of abuse documented on this forum ... or those of your own concerns. Ask to see the financial accounts for the last few years, as it is one's right in law to do so of any charity. I suggesting doing so will reveal the nature of the beast.

As I said, I do not think God needs serving financially, I think humanity does. So if you are inspired to serve humanity, then I suggest thinking about and proposing a practical service plan, or area, of your own and doing that in God's name. Or give the BKWSU the good PR if you with. I am aware that the money being donated to the Brahma-kumaris (because God does not need money) is money which is being mainly taken from Hindi on the basis of their natural sanskars to give charity and which otherwise would be going to temples, bhandaras and worthy charities. Some or all of this would actually have 'practical benefit', e.g. care for widows, children, feeding the hungry, providing clothes and shelter.

The Brahmakumaris redefine 'bring benefit' and I am not sure just who the benefit is being brought to. As one poster, mr green wrote (approx), "we give them money, they give us virtues". In the UK, the BKWSU tax benefited charity was constituted to quote-unquote "alleviate poverty". In my opinion, in the 30 years of its existence, despite drawing in One to Two Million Pounds Sterling per annum, it has never re-distributed any wealth or established programmes to alleviate anyone else's poverty except for their own ... arriving with only their suitcases, as most immigrants form the sub-continent and Africa did.

If I was to play devil's advocate ... offer to fund for them a public server that provides access to ALL of the Murlis and original documents in their original unedited form for all those BKs that wish to have them when they want. If that is not enough for you, then at least I will say that the benefit of making a large donation to the BKWSU is that - on record - you will receive; preferential treatment, leniency with the applications of the Maryadas (especially applying to business) and, probably, some extra toli from King Janak.

One last thing, I think most of us here, whose involvement goes right back to the 70s and 80s, have seen grandiose service scheme go to absolute waste. I can remember the embarrassment of standing in large empty halls where the public never turned up and I understand that even the flagship Global Hospital has quite an empty feel to it. Honestly, you have done nothing wrong to post here and would be doing nothing wrong to engage both your and their intellectual faculties. I would love for more individuals to engage looking at the financial accounts and projections instead of leaving the Seniors to spend their time on "serving" super rich VIPs for the Lord of the Poor.

Best and most sincere wishes.

sakaash
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Re: MukriMata

Post by sakaash » 29 Apr 2008

Hi ex-l,

Thank you for your words, I think I am in the middle of some kind of mental, emotional, spiritual upheaval. I know this started out as a question about whether or not to donate some cash to the BKs but it has turned into something more over the past few days. I went to class this morning and again the SS in charge intimidated and belittled someone in the class for asking a question that was not relevant to the Murli! Who has the right to belittle anyone?! The SS herself adds her own pointless comments and stories to the Murli ... and no one dares to object!

I remember when my Honeymoon Period in the BK came to abrupt end when the same SS told the class how detached she was from her mother, when her mum called her to speak about some problems she was experiencing and was promptly told by the SS that she did not want to listen to any worldly issues. I was so shocked by that, whatever happened to "give no sorrow, take no sorrow!" I was so upset when I heard this story and the SS was soooo proud! Something in me broke that day and I think I've been trying to mend that ever since.

Now I feel so lost, where is God? I would give anything to know this to feel this ... is this possible?? Am I a fool?!

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Re: MukriMata

Post by arjun » 29 Apr 2008

Quoted from the PBK Section (points for churning):

Murli PT. No. 35 (COLLECTION OF FUNDS)

"Baba kay bahut dekhey huay hain. Koi badaa sanyaasi aata hai toh bahut unkay followers hotay hain. Fund (chanda) ikattha kartey hain. Apni-apni taaqat anusaar funds nikaaltey hain. Yahaan baap toh aisey nahi kahengey- funds ikattha karo. Nahi, yahaan toh jo beej boyengey 21 janma uska fal paayengey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 29.8.05, page 2)

"Baba has seen many people. If a renowned sanyasi comes, he has many followers. They collect funds. They contribute funds as per their individual capacity. Here Father will not say – collect funds. No. Whoever sows the seeds here will get its fruits for 21 births.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 29.8.05, page 2 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that we should not collect funds, while it is commonly seen at the BK centres that the BK teachers keep collecting funds in the name of some or the other programme or construction of buildings. Is it not a violation of above mentioned Shrimat?

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Re: MukriMata

Post by bkti-pit » 29 Apr 2008

Sakaash wrote:Now I feel so lost, where is God? I would give anything to know this to feel this ... is this possible?? Am I a fool?!
Dear Sakaash,

No, you're not fool. Actually it is very good that you have not lost your common sense. It is obvious for someone who has a bit of common sense that arrogance, bossiness, selfishness and so on are not of the path of Truth.

BapDada keeps telling us to be humble. It is obvious that your SS is not following Shrimat on this. The challenge is to not take sorrow from it and maintain pure feelings. Congratulations if you are able to do that. However, one may question why such people are allowed to run Centers, why they are often supported and protected by the top administration of the BKWSU despite all the harm they do to others. Is this something you want to support financially?

I have always believed that Shiv Baba as introduced by the BKs was God. My experience generally supports this strongly. There always have been things in the Murlis that did not match my overall feeling but I used to put that on Brahma Baba's account or the account of the Indian cultural context or else on the account of my incomplete understanding and I could live with that.

BKs, even the Seniors, are not perfect and I can live with that too. But when corruption and dishonesty becomes a system that none of the Seniors is willing to question or address openly, I have a conscience issue. Since I came to this site and got exposed to shocking truths about the BKWSU, I accepted to open my mind to the idea that it may not be God speaking the Murlis and it may not even be God that I have been experiencing all those years in my meditation. Honestly, I have no problem considering that with a lot of serenity in my mind and heart.

I cannot deny all the good I got from my time with the BKs and the basic knowledge still make sense to me. I still enjoy the spiritual disciplines and lifestyle and I cannot deny the benefit I get from my experiences in meditation. This is true whether it is God or not. The main thing for me is not to know for sure, it is to be good and do good.

I used to think that the good was outweighing the bad in the BKWSU and that by supporting it I was doing something good. I am now reconsidering this and I am very serene about it because I feel I am following my conscience and my commitment to Truth and Benevolence.

Love!

sakaash
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Re: MukriMata

Post by sakaash » 29 Apr 2008

Thank you bkti-pit, you sure do sound like a very strong and stable minded person. Unfortunately, I don't think I am, when I went to Madhuban, I did so much soul searching, I "confessed" everything in this life to "God" with the thinking that I was really opening my heart to "God". Now I think who on earth did I open my heart to? What did I let in? I feel worse now than I did before I joined the BKs, at least I could enjoy a beautiful scene, or feel at one with "God" when I let the rain fall on my face, now I am told not to take from these scenes, but I must give to them instead, I felt happiness and joy when I heard a baby laugh ... now I am told that the happiness of this world is like the droppings of a crow.

I hug my friends and tell them how special they are to me and how they have enriched my life, now I am told that they are shudras and I should not keep their company. Are these really Gods' teachings? Have I not found the truth that I have been searching for all my life? The SS and her ways are an issue but these other things are closer to my heart ...

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Re: MukriMata

Post by bkti-pit » 29 Apr 2008

Sakaash wrote:I feel worse now than I did before I joined the BKs, at least I could enjoy a beautiful scene, or feel at one with "God" when I let the rain fall on my face,now I am told not to take from these scenes, but I must give to them instead, I felt happiness and joy when I heard a baby laugh...now I am told that the happiness of this world is like the droppings of a crow.
I hug my friends and tell them how special they are to me and how they have enriched my life, now I am told that they are shudras and I should not keep their company. Are these really Gods' teachings?
It is interesting to see how the knowledge can be interpreted. is not it up to us to enjoy to see beauty in nature and in a child's laughter instead of seeing it as caca? is not it up to us to see our non-BK friends as our sweet brothers and sisters, children of God instead of impure shudras? Which of these brings more benefit to us and the world?

One who can only see the Shudra has a problem with the purity of his/her vision. How can one be giving to nature if he/she cannot appreciate its beauty?

One may not want to discard the good with the bad but it is necessary to understand what is right and what is wrong.

Our dear brother Arjun may or may not be able to find the exact quote but I clearly remember Baba saying that when a BK is acting like a Shudra, at that time he/she is a Shudra. On the other hand Baba praises the sanyasis who have helped Bharat with their purity. He also praises big families where siblings live together in great harmony. So, tell me, whose company is the good one?

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Re: MukriMata

Post by fluffy bunny » 29 Apr 2008

At the very least, what you have found here is a halfway house of folks that understand what you are going through, have gone through it themselves, can speak the language and have thought a lot about the issues.

Which ever way you chose to go, we can think things through with you, pre-warn and pre-arm you with stuff your 'production line' , center-in-charge has not got a clue about getting you up to speed about what has really been going on in the Yagya. We won't condemn you when you take pleasure in the simple things in life, more than likely encourage you and we will laugh with you at the silly things.

In short, you have or are being born again ... again. So welcome. You have and are growing up ... again. Life is a spiritual path and you have just taken the next step. It might take some time to find your feet but you will survive. Some time alone just doing some simple practise of just "letting go"of everything ... everything ... and just being in the moment might not be such a bad thing. Sometime the BK just fill you full of so much stuff you cant think or feel your way forward.

The thing to know is that your intuitions are not wrong. Something is going on. I even believe there are changes going on within the BK movement. I do not think that you are alone. So do not worry too much. The next thing you have got to do is some of those things that you thought would kill (life) you but wont ... Learn by your own experience.

I cant spend much time this evening ... so we can talk later. Dip in and out of the forum and if you have any questions, just ask.

Oh yeah ... and we even have Murlis if you must. :wink:

My motto for today ... BYOC ... be your own center.

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