Explanation Required

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arjun
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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by arjun » 14 Jul 2008

mbbhat wrote:One day BK, PBK, Ex-BKs all will become friends. That is why we all are here together!
Your thoughts are appreciated.
*If a BK has three children(before coming to Gyan), then after coming to Gyan, he says 'I have four children'. One is Baba and the other three are the lowkik. many BKs say this. I am really surprised why you do not know this. Can I know for how many years you were BK?
I am aware of the above and have already stated that BKs/PBKs can make ShivBaba their child, but I repeat that ShivBaba has not stated anywhere in the Murlis that you can become my Fathers.

Number of years in BK/PBK knowledge do not matter at all. But anyways for your information, I am thankful to Baba for having adopted me as His child about 30 years ago.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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mr green
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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by mr green » 14 Jul 2008

I am already everyone's friend. I am waiting for some others to get off their high horse.

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by chai bhai » 14 Jul 2008

I fell off my horse years ago, and have been riding a donkey ever since :D. Can we be friends?

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by paulkershaw » 14 Jul 2008

Hmmmm, an unseated BK riding Jesus's long eared four legged friend, whilst drinking pots of hot spiced tea wants to be your friend. Mr Green, I'd ask a few more pertinent questions If I was thee ... :D.

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Jul 2008

chai Bhai wrote:I fell off my horse years ago, and have been riding a donkey ever since
Yeah ... funnily enough, I fell out of the BKWSU and ended up on my ass too. (Its a kind of horse folks ...)
Image

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by mbbhat » 15 Jul 2008

arjun wrote:[but I repeat that ShivBaba has not stated anywhere in the Murlis that you can become my Fathers.
Dear Arjun,

Already sachkhand has quoted like this- Murli dt. 12.10.02 (Murli Khand pg. 316): Here all three are combined. This is not written in any scriptures ( Shastras) that, only That is The lap of Father, Teacher and Preceptor (Guru). Father has asked "Does ShivBaba has Father?" Says yes. O.K., ShivBaba has Teacher? Has Preceptor (Guru)? No. Only gets Mother - Father. This is secret calculation ( or rule or method).
  • * Is the above not a Murli point?
    * When I get additional Murli point, I will mention.

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Jul 2008

sachkhand wrote:Avyakt Vani 30.6.74: Brahma's part is recorded ( Noondha) in the duty of etablishnment (sthapana) till the end. Untill the duty of establishment is not complete. Till then part of the soul, who is the medium, is not going to end. Untill then he cannot enact another part. The part of Jagatpita ( World Father) of completing the creation of the new world is recorded in the drama. The praise of creation of all races of humanity is for Brahma only - Great Great GandFather. For this (he) is praised. Only stage, place and condition (or speed) has changed. But part of Brahma is still the same.
I would like to add something more here.
  • 1) In Sakar, both Brahma and Shiva were speaking. Avyakt Murli is also versions of both Bap and Dada. Gulzar Dadi is dummy (silent).
    2) In the beginning, there was visions of Brahma. Even now it happens Brahma baba. In Murlis Baba has also said even in end, Brahma's saakshaatkar will happen.
    3) Even today, Sakar Murlis have not lost importance. Atleast 5 days in a week, they are read.
    4) How much love was there from Sakar BapDada, even now, we can see unlimited love and patience in Avyakt BapDada.

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by new knowledge » 23 Jul 2008

sachkhand wrote:Murli dt. 6.2.76: Prajapita Brahma who is called Ram.
Brother (or Father?) Sanjeev, this Murli point has become a debating issue in this forum. Possibly, you have quoted this Murli point from Gita Khand. Do you have the original Murli dated 6.2.76? I tried all my best to get it, but not succeed. If you have the original one, please upload it in this website. If it is really stated in that Murli that Prajapita Brahma is Ram, then it would be interesting to see the response of brother shivsena about that Murli point mentioned above.
mbbhat wrote:How much love was there from Sakar BapDaba, even not, we can see unlimited love and patience from Avyakt BapDada.
Brother mbbhat, I can understand 'Avyakt BapDada'; but what about 'Sakar BapDada'? Is the term 'Sakar BapDada' mention in Murlis? And what is meant by 'Sakar BapDada? I have asked this query in the thread 'Meaning of BapDada'; but still waiting for reply. Thanks.

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by sachkhand » 30 Jul 2008

AUM Shanti.
sachkhand wrote: Murli dt. 6.2.76: Prajapita Brahma who is called Ram.
new knowledge wrote:Do you have the original Murli dated 6.2.76?
I have read the above mentioned Murli point in the notebook wherein I have written Murli points from the registers which were used to be provided in Kampil for those people who were interested in writing Murli points. And I trust Virendra Dev Dixit and I believe that whatever Murli points I have noted are true and are present in the respective Murlis. I believe. It is left to you whether to beleive or not in the referred Murli points.

In 1993, when I first went to Kampil I had written Murli points in note book. I do not remember exactly but even in later visits to Kampil few times I have written Murli points. I just copied from whatever registers they provided. In those registers, Murli points were categorised under various headings. And I just copied them. After coming home I sometimes read those points and tried to churn those Murli points. But I was not able to understand them. Few times I thought it was a waste. I thought they were useless since I could not understand them. After few months I just kept them and never read them for years.

Thanks.
Sanjeev.

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by arjun » 30 Jul 2008

sachkhand wrote:And I trust Veerendra Dev Dixit and I believe that whatever Murli points I have noted are true and are present in the respective Murlis.
But still you feel he is a deceiver and what not :D.

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by fluffy bunny » 31 Jul 2008

arjun wrote:But still you feel he is a deceiver and what not :D.
Its the nature of this spirit, or level of spirituality that we are involved with. Its endless. All the people involved might well be good people and, at least at the beginning meant well, but the 'spirit' behind it all is one of manipulation and deceit. Its strikes me that the long one remains involved with it, at least on the BK side, the greater that deceit becomes until one's being is engulfed in it.

So, at least the question we could ask is "why?". Why the errors, anomalies, manipulation, deceits ... ?

Its seems for a long time individuals attempt to rationalise that in a positive way. The obvious one, straight from Bhakti and having no place in Gyan, is "Baba is testing us". The less obvious one is the path Virendra Dev Dixit has taken of attempting to understand and explain "significances" within all the anomalies ... but, it too appears to be a tangled knot. In his own day, Lekhraj Kirpalani attempted to keep patching it all up to hold his dream together. He progressed as a human being but ultimately the dream failed and the businessmen moved in to kill the cow and sell it in bits.

So is the lesson not just to realise that, be brave one is with a living god or that life is "god", walk away from all that and make one's own path? Or do we become strong by "wrestling with angels" like Jacob and that is what it is all about?

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by sachkhand » 01 Aug 2008

AUM Shanti.
arjun wrote:But still you feel he is a deceiver and what not :D.
As Virendra Dev Dixit uses Murlis to challenge BKs and blames BKs for editing Murlis, I beleive that Virendra Dev Dixit will not dare to edit Murlis himself. Because then it will weaken his case. :D
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by mbbhat » 09 Aug 2008

new knowledge wrote:Brother mbbhat, I can understand 'Avyakt BapDada'; but what about 'Sakar BapDada'? Is the term 'Sakar BapDada' mention in Murlis? And what is meant by 'Sakar BapDada? I have asked this query in the thread 'Meaning of BapDada'; but still waiting for reply. Thanks.
Dear new knowledge soul,

I did not see this thread for long time. I visited this just to mention the following Murli point to arjun soul.
According to me, BapDada is the combined form of Shiva and Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani). So there is no difference between Sakar BapDada or Avyakt BapDada. But to differentiate I used the two words. Shiva is considered to be Avyakt since he has no body of his own. Brahma was vyakt. So when Brahma was vyakt (having body), we can say the form as Sakar BapDada. When Brahma was in Sakar, BKs used to say Shiv comes in Brahma.

When Brahma became Avyakt, both are Avyakt. So we say Avyakt BapDada comes in Gulzar Dadi.
arjun wrote:but I repeat that ShivBaba has not stated anywhere in the Murlis that you can become my Fathers.
Dear Arjun soul,

I am mentioning the Murli point that says we can become Father of Shiva.

Baba dekho kitnee kamaal karte hai. Kahte hain mujhe apnaa vaaris banaavo. Main tumhaaree itnee seva karoonga jo tumhaaraa bacchha bhee kabhee kar na sakegaa. Main tumko 21 janmon ke liye raajy bhaagy doongaa. Phir bhee agar vaaris na banaave to takdeer kahaa jaataa - (14-6-08). The approx. translation is -

See how much magic (kamaal) Baba does. Says, 'make me your vaaris (one who has right to the property = son). I will serve you so much that even your son will never be able to do that much. I will give you kingdom for 21 births. If even then one does not makes (me) vaaris, then it is called (bad) luck (or fate).

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by arjun » 10 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:I am mentioning the Murli point that says we can become Father of Shiva.
Dear brother,
Om Shanti. I am already aware of such Murli points and if you wish I can also quote to support your view. But these Murli points say that you can make Baba as your heir/inheritor/child, but it does not say that you can become ShivBaba's Father. You can infer from the above Murli point that you can become ShivBaba's Father, but it has not been said directly. It is also mentioned in the Murlis that there can be brotherhood, not fatherhood.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Explanation Required.

Post by mbbhat » 10 Aug 2008

arjun wrote: You can infer from the above Murli point that you can become ShivBaba's Father, but it has not been said directly. It is also mentioned in the Murlis that there can be brotherhood, not fatherhood.Arjun
Dear Arjun soul,

Sachkhand quoted one Murli point and I just mentioned another point from Murli. When both are Murli points, Why do you say it has not been said directly? DO YOU WANT TO ARGUE AGAINST Murli?

Baba uses several methods to wake up children. Sometimes HE does a lot of jokes in Murlis. This is another reason why understanding Murlis is difficult.

One serves the Yagya by his "tan, man, dhan" like he serves his child. Yagya is ShivBaba's property. Hence it is as good as ShivBaba is our child. But, it does not mean that ShivBaba is dependent on us or we give birth to Baba! So simple logic

*As for as my knowledge, PBKs believe
  • 1) The impure body becomes pure.
    2) There are 3 or 4 Brahmas.
    3) In Satyug, there would be no buildings.
    4) Deities wear no dress, they will be nude.
    5) Baba says beggar to prince. But PBKs say directly from nar se Narayan. Is there any point of Sangamyugi Lakshmi Narayan, Sangamyugi Radha Krishna in Murli?
Can you quote Murli points which say all these above DIRECTLY?

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