Orange World

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howiemac
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Orange World

Post by howiemac » 01 May 2006

Jim Brady, on August 18, 2005 in the "ex-BK discussions" forum on XBKchat.com mentioned in his excellent post on "Anomalies and Inconsistencies":
JimBrady wrote:Could never understand or get information and insight into the Soul World
In my own recent 4 years of 'being a BK', I did not find much understanding there about our 'true home'. I shared my own experience of the Soul World a few times (usually receiving ridicule or dismissal), but found nobody who had any similar experience, or indeed alternative experience to offer...

I refer to the most profound experience I have had in this life, a visionary experience of being a soul in the Soul World. This happened in 1989, some 12 years before I got involved with the BKs, and several years before I had even heard of them. I was at an emotional low point in my life after a love affair that had gone very wrong. At the same time I had been working on myself spiritually for over a year, following intuition I had become vegetarian and was striving to be very temperate in all habits, and (I now know) was meditating regularly, though I thought I wasn't 'doing it right'. So I was struggling towards 'purity' and seeking help from 'beyond'. I was also living in a remote place with a spiritual history (15th century Celtic/Christian monastery).

I received over a few months a number of experiences, the last two of which were very powerful and changed my life, forming the basis of my spiritual understandings and beliefs ever since. Both happened when I was asleep, but were very real and very vivid and detailed.

In the first vision (which I may describe in depth in another post) I went to the Subtle Region of white light and met an angelic being (now known to me as Brahma Baba/BapDada) and was shown the world cycle in a vision, and also given a taste of judgement day (or Dharamraj in BK terms), and finally a brief experience of being in earthly paradise (the garden of Eden, so I assumed, aka the Golden Age).

In the second vision I was an egg shaped being of light in a region of orange light, interacting with several other egg shaped beings of light. The eggs were translucent orange with golden light eminating from the centre. The experience was of absolute bliss and comfort, warm, velvety, the best I have ever felt. One of the most interesting aspects to me now, is that I did FEEL, and I did SEE the other souls - we all floated around and had control over our movement, and there was a telepathic awareness shared between us: this may have been from me being in a trance state whereby I was experiencing the Soul World from a non-soul-world perspective, I don't know, but my perception was that I WAS that egg shaped being, and my consciousness was within the egg looking out. The golden light emanating from each of us seemed to merge into the element we were floating in: we were floating in golden light. When I came out of the experience, I was high as a kite and radiantly happy, the opposite of what I had been before it. I knew I had experienced something divine. I believed then that the golden light was pure spiritual love (and still think so).

So twelve years later when the BKs appeared in my life with their logo of a golden egg shape of light emitting from a point.... and when the meditation course and subsequent Murlis explained the contents of the first vision clearly, and when one Sakar Murli described the form of the soul in the Soul World as an orange egg (did not stop certain sisters from still rubbishing my descriptions), and when I experienced occasionally similar feelings of golden bliss (but not visions) when deep in Yoga, I 'knew' I had found my spiritual home. After all I had spent 12 years in a wilderness of confusion seeking explanations for the two visions I have described, and finding very little to help me.

The Brahma Kumaris filled in the gaps in my understanding, to the extent that I just accepted the extra details they offered. It took four years or so to fully realise that most other BKs had little or no experience of the type I have been describing. I still find it difficult to fathom why one would accept BK 'knowledge' without strong spiritual experiences to back it up.. it does seem that those who do have Yoga experiences, or other psychic or dream experiences, are the ones most likely to have problems with the BK religious practices and organisational strictures. My experiences made me feel like an outcast, a fish out of water, at the same time as they validated for me the essential authenticity of the core BK beliefs, and exceptional Godliness of the organisation.

I now keep away from them in general, as I cannot stomach the dogma and ritual and cult religious behaviour, which have already been described by several others in this forum far more eloquently than I could (eromain, jim, atma, and several others, thanks to all of you).

It may be that we all experience different realities, I don't know, but in my reality, there is a great deal of truth behind the BK 'knowledge'. I have done much occult and religious and psychological research over the years since experiencing the visions described above, and its seems that the essence of the BK beliefs (throw out the (in?)exact numbers) are identical to ancient Hindu and Buddhist secret traditions. Brahma Baba did not invent this stuff, but he did/does broadcast it clearly (unlike secret occult or religious groups), if over-simplistically.

Anyway, there is no substitute for experience. The intellect and words can only take you so far, but please, if anybody else out there has had experiences similar to mine, perhaps they would like to share them?

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visions

Post by proy » 01 May 2006

Hi Howie,

Was the Golden Age/Garden of Eden experience more like the biblical or the Gyan images? If we are not body conscious would we be dressed up in silks with golden ornaments or would we be naked like Adam and Eve?I have seen the statues of Lakshmi and Narayan in Gyan Sarovar and they are very pretty, to my taste anyway, not everybody’s cup of tea. I think the bible story could be more accurate, i.e. our curiosity led us to incarnate, at first we were not conscious of our bodies at all, they may even have been subtle bodies compared with what we have now.

At any rate our perception of them was so much less powerful than our soul consciousness in power, so that they appeared subtle to us. Then our curiosity and deepening body consciousness led us to become aware of our bodies, hence the fig leaf story and the tree of knowledge in the centre of the garden of Eden.

I can see myself living in an age where love and purity of soul result in abundance and happiness, but as Brother Ken has said on his courses (Time Management), I don’t think I was as fond of the gold necklaces etc.
Can you elaborate on your vision, I am sure it was accurate. Maybe things have changed or maybe I am thinking of different BKs, but there seems to be much more tolerance for people with transcendental and psychic visionary experiences now.

Perhaps it is the timing with which you tell a person, especially if they have been soldiering on in service for years without having had any such experiences to support them in their lives. When I am in classes I am sometimes called upon to describe my own experiences if a sister wants to emphasise a point, but in my earlier days I did upset a few people by opening my gob too soon for them. I was the new brother and was expected to behave myself for a while. Shouldn’t be like that maybe but the family is often a difficult place to be, whether lokik or alokik.

Personally I feel your visions make you a person with a true foundation of knowledge. I.e. you know the 3 worlds exist because you have been there. Your relationship with Brahma must also be very strong as you have met him in Avyakt form.

Please tell us more.
Love,
Proy.

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Re: Orange World

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 May 2006

howiemac wrote:In my own recent 4 years of 'being a BK', I did not find much understanding there about our 'true home'. I shared my own experience of the Soul World a few times (usually receiving ridicule or dismissal), but found nobody who had any similar experience, or indeed alternative experience to offer...

I refer to the most profound experience I have had in this life, a visionary experience of being a soul in the Soul World. This happened in 1989, some 12 years before I got involved with the BKs, and several years before I had even heard of them.

Anyway, there is no substitute for experience. The intellect and words can only take you so far, but please, if anybody else out there has had experiences similar to mine, perhaps they would like to share them?
Interesting. Firstly, I'd like to relate a similar experience of a friend of mine who at the age of 16 felt such a strong pull to join the Tibetan Buddhists, that he left home, shaved up and took robes and became an assistant to a couple of Yellow Hat Lamas travelling around Europe. He was drawn like a magnet and followed what they said and instructed him to do assiduously.

After a period of years practise, he had an experience very similar to how you described it. He completely left his body, was surrounded by a sea of light, and saw very many spiritual beings - as he described them like sort of transparent jellyfish - moving through this light towards a centre point and away from it. By centre point, I am not say a " Shiva " soul, just being descriptive. He realised that he was one of these beings too and there was all the same sensations that you recount.

When he came back, he was blown away. This Buddhist thing really did work, he thought, and he went and asked his teachers what it was that happened and what it meant. They sort of laughed nervously, dismissively and told him, "oh, it means that you are going to die soon". He is, of course, alive 20 odd years later.

What he realised was that they did not know and had not had the experience themselves. And increasing sense of disillusionment grew in him as he discovered that their religion was empty and that, in general, the monks were just " dancing on books ", as it is called acting as cultural custodians wanting to preserve a tradition is aspic, or political agents but not actually having the experiences. This is the Dalai Lama's lot.

He left and went off, had similar difficulties to ex-B.K. readjusting to worldly life but found a little bit more active mysticism amongst the practitioners of the heretical [ to the Yellow Hats ] Dzogchen tradition. When we met and talked and in what you relate, I can see universal similarities.

Before Gyan I had one experience of being blown right out of my body but still having consciousness of the oneness of it all, also " taken out of my body " and not being their for a very bad motorcycle accident at 80 miles an hour which had my body going under and over oncoming vehicles but which I walked away from. Not unique but unusual.

Prior to BK, I was doing a lot of physical Yoga and a little Tai Chi and starting to shakti/chi experiences which increased when I started to do B.K. Raja Yoga but I did not have the " red light " out of the body, seed stage experiences with them. It is one of my greatest regret stopping doing those physical experiences and instead just stuffing myself with holy sweeties and cannot remember distinctly and clearly the Senior Sister putting them down dismissively as " Bhakti " and suitable only for " next Kalpa ".

I experienced the white light very strong, I experienced being withdrawn from my body, rising up through the chakras until I could not differentiate that energy which I would now call arm or leg, I was just a ball of energy in my head, my body just seemed to be hanging from it effortless, not pulled by gravity and the experience was very powerful. I believe that I had some sort of blockage at my throat chakra because I could not rise above that and if I could have had would probably be been able to detach myself from my body. I am not sure that I was doing this, I am more sure that it was being done to me to show me. Thoughts came into my mind and it started to dissipate.

Funnily, although I had all the drugged up, loved out, silliness, energy and liberation of " the honeymoon " period, I never managed to have the out of the body seed stage type experiences. I was very much " down here " and wanting to bring " it " down.

What I did experience often though was other being given *very* distinct experiences through me. That is to say, that I am clear that I was not doing it and did not know how but *KNOW* it was being given / done to them. Sometimes with folks that I knew very well or even a kid that would have no guile at all.

These would include individuals - with no knowledge or interest of Hinduism at all - having " Subtle Region " visions of Hanuman, an archetypal Brahma [ e.g. long white beard ], arguably Jesus and Mary [ they were Christian healers, B.K.s might say different ] during the open eyed meditation. I would not see this but I would " see " the white light and the reaction on the face when it happened.

In other case, souls did get sucked/blown out of their bodies and have " Nirvana experiences " and either not come back down for some time, coming back down quite blown away with tears in their eyes - or excited at what had happened. There was no spooky or negative feelings involved at all although I remember the shock of one that shook them out of the meditation and ended the session. I was quite happy.

It would be a good question to ask how many BK were actually really experiencing such things and how many were just sitting there hoping. There definitely is an element of a " honeymoon " period or " childhood " when one is being given a lot of attention from them upstairs - and the general body, rote and ritual of the incumbent B.K. community does pull one down.

If I were to be able to go back in time and speak to me as the young Brahmin - or any one just starting off in it - I would tell him to keep clear of all the bullsh** and don't listen to or recycle all of the ****. Keep apart from the day care / Hindu community centre and don't get sucked into the social club aspect of it. Keep very fit, do not get involved with or listen to any of the self-appointed lieutenant junior sister-in-charges but live near the facilities of a big centre. Know what you don't know and trust your intuitions that other don't.

Just dodge the bullets and live a clean, quiet, life by yourself getting on with the meditation. Associate with others having genuine mystic experiences and research them. Try and work out what these are. Keep the rest of the world at a distance and take regular trips to remote places to discharge.

In essence, the same advice that has been handled to for generations to true seekers. The truth is out there. It will come and find you when you are ready or it needs you enough. Keep preparing yourself.

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Post by proy » 01 May 2006

Here is a bit about my own experiences.

Up until the age of around three and a half years I would have visions every night in the trance state we sometimes experience between waking and sleeping. In these visions I and all my companions had subtle bodies which had a bright but not dazzling golden light shining through. The only thing I could equate this with at that age was living in the sun, so I believed I went home to the sun every night.

Later, in my teenage years, at the age of sixteen in 1969 I had visions that were similar. It was the time of the hippies then and my visions came from taking LSD. Knowing that I could not sustain this high frequency level of consciousness alone I sought out a method that was reliable and in control. What I eventually found was Buddhism. In the peace and quiet of meditation retreats I experienced a world of golden red light, which the Buddhists call nirvana. The Buddhist ideal is to merge with this light, and I could sustain this as long as I lived a quiet, celibate life.

When I met the BKs I was given a taste of something more than nirvana by Sudesh Didi. That something more was Shiva. I was flying for months after that happened. When I put my feet back on the ground I had to decide – does this mean I am a BK? After some time of reflection I decided yes. Luckily for me my wife also decided yes to being a BK at around the same time. I think each soul has to follow its own path, and I do not see BKs, XBKs, PBKs, non-BKs ... make up your own labels, as being any different in our souls. I think we are all one human family and respect and self respect are prime values for me.

Proy

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Re: visions

Post by howiemac » 01 May 2006

proy wrote:Hi Howie,
Was the Golden Age/garden of Eden experience more like the biblical or the Gyan images?
It was Garden of Eden - a very beautiful garden with no apparent boundaries - we were playing in the garden - all colours were exceptionally vivid and we radiated golden light, just as you relate from your experiences:
In these visions I and all my companions had subtle bodies which had a bright but not dazzling golden light shining through.
I think we had clothes on - but at one point we went swimming and playing in a large pool of warm fragrant water - and we were naked - i don't remember undressing or dressing - there was no consciousness of this - but i was aware afterwards of the beauty of the feeling of being naked and totally natural and unashamed.

We were child-like - heads large in comparison to body - i remember thinking immediately after the experience that it felt like being children and we looked more like children than adults- but at the same time, i had the feeling we were definitely adults.

There was telepathic communication, and speech too. There were no flying machines, or palaces - no glittering jewels - so it was not like the BK pictures, or as described in the Murlis. I agree with you that Genesis gives a more accurate picture - though it is doesn't say very much, and must be understood symbolically.
If we are not body conscious would we be dressed up in silks with golden ornaments or would we be naked like Adam and Eve?
I am sure we had clothes on when out of the water - but there was no real awareness of the clothes, or the bodies - the awareness was of third eye to third eye exchange of light, and generally of blissful happiness and being carefree and having fun - it was afterwards that I realised the physical and perceptional differences compared to now
I have seen the statues of Lakshmi and Narayan in Gyan Sarovar and they are very pretty, to my taste anyway, not everybody’s cup of tea.
I think the bible story could be more accurate.
They touch something in me but i always thought they were over ornate - but then they do depict emperor and empres, and not the normal dress of others ...
I.e. our curiosity led us to incarnate, at first we were not conscious of our bodies at all, they may even have been subtle bodies compared with what we have now.
definitely much more subtle - translucent - hologram like.
Maybe things have changed or maybe I am thinking of different BKs, but there seems to be much more tolerance for people with transcendental and psychic visionary experiences now.

If so, then I am glad to hear it - of course, you will be meeting different BKs from me. There did seem to be a widespread dogma that only the "authorized" trance messengers could have valid visons. (This dogma being relaxed sometimes in the case of certain pukka sisters...)
Perhaps it is the timing with which you tell a person, especially if they have been soldiering on in service for years without having had any such experiences to support them in their lives.
I did learn to keep quiet.
you know the 3 worlds exist because you have been there. Your relationship with Brahma must also be very strong as you have met him in Avyakt form.
Yes, and yes - though a vison is not necessarily knowledge - but for me these experiences carry great weight - I never had any problem believing these aspects of Gyan., and I could not imagine worshipping Brahma Baba - it would be like worshipping your older brother - not a good idea ...

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Post by proy » 01 May 2006

ex-l said
It would be a good question to ask how many BK were actually really experiencing such things and how many were just sitting there hoping. There definitely is an element of a " honeymoon " period or " childhood " when one is being given a lot of attention from them upstairs - and the general body, rote and ritual of the incumbent B.K. community does pull one down.
Please tell me more about the Honeymoon Period.

Do you mean honeymoon with the BKWSO or with Brahma and Shiva.

How do things change when the honeymoon ends? Does it have to end?

Proy.

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Re: Orange World

Post by howiemac » 01 May 2006

Thank you both, proy and ex-l for sharing your experiences.
ex-l wrote:After a period of years practise, he had an experience very similar to how you described it. He completely left his body, was surrounded by a sea of light, and saw very many spiritual beings - as he described them like sort of transparent jellyfish - moving through this light towards a centre point and away from it. By centre point, I am not say a " Shiva " soul, just being descriptive. He realised that he was one of these beings too and there was all the same sensations that you recount.
This does sound very similar - though there was no central place in my experience of the Soul World - no point of reference.
What he realised was that they did not know and had not had the experience themselves.
It took me a long time with the BKs before I realised that most others did not have these kind of experiences - those of us who were seeing things talked about it to each other, and the others generally did not admit to lack of experiences. There is a general acceptance of psychic phenomena within the BKs - there has to be given BapDada's channelling through Gulzar - and the aceptance all along of messages from trance messengers. But I also found a widespread attitude that psychic perception was a disadvantage and a distraction from making real progress in self transformation and self realisation. But for me it was the experiences that persuaded me to keep going.
And increasing sense of disallusionment grew in him as he discovered that their religion was empty and that, in general, the monks were just " dancing on books "
i felt that about the BK "Brahmin religion" and the emphasis on words and physical service. There is a real spiritual power behind it all, but it seems most BKs are pretty blind to it (and I now think - this is the way it is meant to be - you cannot administer a centre if you are a spaced out yogi... this is why BB handed over to the sisters).
Before Gyan I had one experience of being blown right out of my body but still having consciousness of the oneness of it all, also " taken out of my body " and not being their for a very bad motorcycle accident at 80 miles an hour which had my body going under and over oncoming vehicles but which I walked away from. Not unique but unusual.
I have had a similar experience in accidents. And perception of time slows right down.
What I did experience often though was other being given *very* distinct experiences through me. That is to say, that I am clear that I was not doing it and did not know how but *KNOW* it was being given / done to them. Sometimes with folks that I knew very well or even a kid that would have no guile at all.
Were you conducting at the time? Obviously you were being used as an instrument - to channel energies or experiences to others - and this is what the Avyakt Murlis say we should be doing - and i have felt "used" like this too, on many occasions - especially when conducting (this is surely what "conducting" is all about?). I did sometimes feel "possessed" and something was wanting to control my face - but this always happened in the midsts of a blissful state and never felt in any way alarming.
These would include individuals - with no knowledge or interest of Hinduism at all - having " Subtle Region " visions of Hanuman, an archetypal Brahma [ e.g. long white beard ], arguably Jesus and Mary [ they were Christian healers, B.K.s might say different ] during the open eyed meditation. I would not see this but I would " see " the white light and the reaction on the face when it happened.
presumably some of them described their experiences to you afterwards? - I think there should be more sharing of these experiences between BKs - and those who are recognised by others as being able to "conduct" should be doing it - rather than it being used as a reward for good service or good behaviour - ie a privilege. It is hard work - you have to stay focussed and clear - but I have seen many conducting who were clearly not even in Yoga - and others who were giving out hideous energies - this, to me, is abuse, and potentially damaging. We were given almost no guidance on how to conduct. We often had "conductors" who just sat frowning and demanding attention.. and they would get up day after day and repeat the performance.. When it is working the BK system of conducting can be immensely powerful, and I had some wonderful and transformational experiences through the drishti of others, so it is sad to see it being abused and twisted into a charade.
There definitely is an element of a " honeymoon " period or " childhood " when one is being given a lot of attention from them upstairs - and the general body, rote and ritual of the incumbent B.K. community does pull one down.
I have heard many say this, and that was my experience also.

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Post by bansy » 02 May 2006

it took me a long time with the BKs before i realised that most others did not have these kind of experiences
I've had a few out-of-body type experiences, but these only lasted a few seconds but everything around was unchanged as they were in the physical world, except my being (or soul) being above and flying around. One time alone in Baba's room during the Honeymoon Period after the foundation course, another was in a large group meditation session. It was really light. It did feel good. I don't really try to focus on a point of light or on anything physical, a Shiva that is, but rather just relax and let my consciousness take hold of me, and its easier with the eyes closed. Though there is a sensation feeling in the front of the forehead when it happened, the first lesson in Raja Yoga was "Om Shanti", I am a soul, and my ardous studies have left me still on page one !
I did ask if others had this but never got the same reply. Being told I was in an angelic form is nice though but a bit :oops:

Welcome Proy to the forum !

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Post by howiemac » 02 May 2006

Welcome, Bansy, to the forum (and the list).
bansy wrote:its easier with the eyes closed
I find that too - in the more bodiless stages - there is little point in keeping the eyes open, as you don't see anything physical anyway... :)

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Post by proy » 02 May 2006

It is my experience also that those who have the most genuine affinity for a spiritual practice, and all the corresponding transcendental experiences, are usually the first to leave the institution due to disillusionment. It was like that with me and the Buddhists.

Also I expect you know that the big breakthrough for the BKs in England came when they were invited to give talks at spiritualist churches. There has always been a deep connection between the BKs and western spiritualism, psychism, arcane or esoteric occult sciences etc.

I explore these issues a little in my posts “Illuminism” in the BK section and “Yogi Pavitra Jivan” in the sexuality section. There are many in depth books on the Western Tradition. I could not possibly type out and post all the information here. A taste will demonstrate my meaning, and the correspondences between east and west as far as spirituality is concerned.
Proy.

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Post by celtiggyan » 04 May 2006

I had some great experiences during BK meditation a long time back in Kilburn London around 1977-ish. Dadi used to take meditation - felt so light afterwards but the energy slowly vanished after a few hours. I knew there was something special about them at that time and still do. I am not sure about what is really happening though, I suspect the truth is even more difficult to comprehend.

From an early age I always thought (funnily my sister did too and she became a BK before me!) that this was not reality (the physical world) but we were in fact somewhere else. (I suppose like the film Matrix). I find just the physical Universe too difficult to comprehend - the shear size of it - so many Galaxies with millions of billions of stars and probably planets as well. (Almost certainls other lifeforms as well). It seems without end and if it is not then what's outside? It's like being stuck inside an atom not knowing what's outside.

Om Shanti

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Post by aimée » 07 May 2006

that is a great experience, very intoxicating to hear. This is exactly the way I imagine Golden Age. I think BK have transcribed their desire of hierarchy and fastuous living in their "vision" of it, with jewels and gold and of course the Seniors in the best places being worshiped by the subjects. That does not make sense, in a perfect world where there is this sense of oneness in soul consciousness, and nature serves us. There is no need for clothes, the body is our clothes and we are innocent. And especially, there is no worship, yet, we will do plenty afterwards, this is a time to enjoy!

Don't you think that your experience of the Soul World could be the bliss experienced in the body, but we would be in such a blissful state that we would just not be aware of each other bodies, at the beginning. We would have body of light because matter would be so pure?...

I never had such experiences, just the tremendous love of Brahma Baba, what I thought God was. We probably receive what we need by God or mother Destiny, according to our belief system, and the visions of a Christian of Mary are as true and valuable that the relationship I had with Brahma Baba. Now I don't discard it, but I have gone to see the new Chariot, which is less romantic but in a way even more beautiful and, God, so powerful...

Aimée

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Post by kyzzie » 09 May 2006

Your experience sounds very beautiful and I am sorry to hear that at any time it might have been *rubbish-ed*. It was yours and it was beautiful. I suppose you could call it a 'Peak Experience' that some say we only encounter a few times in life, if ever.

I have had a couple of peak experiences. One involving the sheer beauty of nature and the Life Force within all living things. A force so strong and creative it just enlivens all with its Love and Light. It is non-personal and does not care if you think this way or that way or do this or that. It is up to us whether we wish to live with Life or to (try to!) resist it.

I believe that we all have our own personal symbolism for beauty, divinity, bliss. I think it is probably impossible to ever fix on any particular set of symbols as Absolute and for All. What is important is that you felt the Divinity; you were a part of it; you experienced it. Whether it is an egg shape and orange as an Absolute Reality, who knows? I do not think we will ever know for sure. But for YOU.. that set of symbolism represents the bliss and divinity of your soul. It allows your human mind a structure with which to make intellectual sense of an experience.

My current wonderings about Enlightment is that maybe the ultimate Divine Bliss is just pure Experience beyond Symbolism.

Your experience sounds so important and precious. Maybe it just WAS what it was and will be with you forever and doesn't have to mean any more than that .. because who could ask for more?

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Meditation experiences in Raja Yoga

Post by proy » 15 May 2006

Meditation experiences in Raja Yoga

Hi,
First of all I would like to make it crystal clear that I in no way represent the BKs. I am on this forum as myself and I happen to be a practising BK. I have never even sought or been given permission by any BK to post on this site, as I do not feel I need permission. I am here in the BK tradition of serving myself and the world by changing myself. I have had the privilege of meeting personally with three EX-BKs. They are, in my opinion, all three of them powerful yogis. One in especial is as powerful a yogi as many of the Seniors and Dadis. I mention no names, but you know who you are! This brings me nicely to the point of this post.

Howie was surprised, as was I, at the number of BKs who have never had a transcendental experience in Yoga. My opinion is that many members of the BK institution are not, in the strict literal meaning of “mouth born children of Brahma”, BKs at all. They are, as far as I am concerned, welcome to call themselves BKs and to be part of the family. After all, we are all one world family are we not? Let me give a little more of my own experience in Yoga.

Shiva does not speak to me in words so I will have to translate the experiences into my own words or I will be leaving the rest of the page blank. So let’s pretend I had a conversation that went like this :–

Shiva and I are introduced by a very powerful BK yogi.

ShivBaba – "Hi Proy, want to join me and take power and sustenance from me, re-charge your batteries?"

Me – "Yes, yes, yes – flies off metaphorically and literally (to madhuban), keeps flying for months, comes down with a bump, (End of “Honeymoon”)".

Take time out, do not meditate, stay away from the BKs and the centres. Lead my own life. Then, through my own efforts, wanting to meet Shiva again, I practise intense Yoga.

ShivBaba – "Hi, there again, want to join me now?"

Me – "Yes, what’s the catch?"

ShivBaba – "Well, no catch if you don’t want one, but I would like you to come home with me for a while when you leave your present body. Then I would like you to come back to a bodily existence on Earth for another 5000 years."

Me – "I’ve been thinking a lot about that one. The answer is yes.
(Presumably I made the same agreement 5000 years ago, but that is another topic and I digress.)"


My point being, if a person has not had a yogic experience, they are not really a BK, but if they have had such an experience, even only once, then they are mouth born brahmin souls whether they are BKs or not.
I think many of the people on this site are instruments of Shiva. If they have nothing more to do with the BKs is no concern of mine, every soul’s path is unique, but they are maybe on this site in Godly service whether they are BKs, PBKs, non-BKs, Ex-BKs, whatever.
We are all equal in the perception of Shiva.

The odd thing is that I am able to recognise another soul of Brahma’s “tribe” the very second I see them. I am not alone in this. Many others have the same ability, and I have been recognised myself many times, and not while I am going about in whites wearing a badge either. I have many ideas as to why this is but will leave them for another post.

I know I keep saying this, but I am off on another BK retreat soon and I am not on broadband but on a pay as you go service ISP. So, in theory, I will not be posting for a while. In fact I will probably not be able to resist and will run up a ‘phone bill. I just love this forum.

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bansy
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Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by bansy » 15 May 2006

Lovely post Proy.
The odd thing is that I am able to recognise another soul of Brahma’s “tribe” the very second I see them. I am not alone in this. Many others have the same ability, and I have been recognised myself many times, and not while I am going about in whites wearing a badge either.
In all my years as a BK, I never told anyone I was an BK. Just a student of Raja Yoga.
BK is a label. Which can only be used within a BK environment. As does "Prof" and "Dr" in theirs.
BK labels/badges probably most needed in India, that has had the caste system for centuries, to distinguish each other on the street.

But you are supposed to be incognito is not it ?

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